# SELF-CONTAINED A to Z



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

For awhile now self-contained lights have been an increasingly popular and highly researched segment of bicycle lighting. I've collected several several so thought I'd share my experiences and hope other will too. I'm hoping to get opinions on some of the less talked about lights (Cygolite, Knog, Garmin, Portland Design, Moon) to add to the database of Niterider/Ravemen/Ituo/Bontrager/L&M/Zebra light/Gloworm lights that are most commonly owned on this forum.

My single cell lights



































Ituo Wiz1
*Weight:* 260 grams w/mount
*Mount:* Bar QR /Gopro interface (Y)/25.4 - 35mm bars
*Emitter Tint:* NW
*Runtime in high:* Approx. 3 hrs.
*USB chargeable:* yes
*
PLUS*
high capacity battery/long runtime, programmable presets, solid construction, excellent output consistency, $13 current Amazon price

*MINUS*
Modest output (?), simple round beam, may no longer be available as I write ths








Niterider Lumina 1200 Boost
Weight: 180 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (no)/25.4 - 35mm bars/helmet mount optional
Emitter Tint: CW (very cool)
Runtime in high: Approx. 65 min.
USB chargeable: yes
*
PLUS*
Customer service/support, reliability, availability, low price

*MINUS*
Inconsistent output, shorter runtimes, very cool tint creates a lot of glare in higher modes








Bontrager RT Pro (Ion 1300)
Weight: 185 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (no)/25.4 - 35mm bars/helmet mount optional (includes Gopro adapter)
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: Approx. 100 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Customer service/support, reliability, availability, output and output consistency, good runtimes, nice tint

MINUS
Pricy, UI program








Cygolite Metro 800/950
Weight: 140/150 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /25.4 - 31.8mm bars
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in turbo/high/med.: Approx. 70/85/150 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Low price, higher than claimed output, near perfect output consistency, very nice UI program (very likable light to use). nice tint, light weight/makes good helmet light, good value

MINUS
Won't fit 35mm bars

**Extra output of the 950 is nice but unfortunately it doesn't match the output consistency of the 800 in any of the modes and also doesn't live up to the manufacturers claims of longer runtimes in the higher modes.**








Sigma Buster 700
Weight: 145 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (yes)/25.4 - 31.8mm bars/helmet mount included
Emitter Tint: (warmish)CW 
Runtime in high: Approx. 80 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Low price, much higher than claimed output, excellent output consistency, very nice UI program (very likable light to use). nice tint, light weight/makes good helmet light, good value

MINUS
Short runtimes (but consistent), won't fit 35mm bars








Blackburn Dayblazer 1100
Weight: 140 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar strap /Gopro interface (yes)/25.4 - 35mm bars
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: Not measurable/approx 1.5n hrs in 800 lumen mode
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Customer service/support

MINUS
Light would enter thermal protection after less than 3 minutes of use in highest mode level, output consistency poor even in med mode level, output high but only for very short periods of time, results were identical on a replacement light sent to me by Blackburn (at least customr support was good), very poor performing light!














Ravemen LR800
Weight: 120 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar strap /Gopro interface (no)/25.4 - 35mm bars
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: 75 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Light weight/Very nice flood beam/Very strong usable Med. mode/Ravemen reliability/Charge on the fly via usb port to extend runtime/symmetrical elliptical beam can be mounted upside down

MINUS
Short runtime in high mode/single mode rotary program that includes flash mode/wired remote not included









Cygolite Ranger 1400
Weight: 185 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /25.4 - 31.8mm bars Gopro accessory adapter/mount
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in turbo/high/med.: Approx. 90/135/210 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
High mode outputs and runtimes, very good output consistency, very nice UI program (very likable light to use). nice tint, good light for riders who do longer rides

MINUS
Won't fit 35mm bars, a bit pricy, too heavy for helmet use (IMO)









Ceco 1000
Weight: 145 grams w/mount
Mount: Strap (fits Cygolite QR/Gopro mounts)
Emitter Tint: CW
Runtime in Hi/med. high/med.: Approx. 75/115/180 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Low price, higher than claimed output, nice tint, light weight/makes good helmet light, good runtimes, good value

MINUS
Flash mode in main UI program, Reliabiloity problems with mount















Outbound Hangover
Weight: 120 grams w/mount (lighthead 102g)
Mount: Stick on helmet mount /Gopro interface (yes)
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: Approx. 89 min. (usable), on the fly use of external usb battery pack/powerbank possible
USB chargeable: yes (C)

PLUS
Excellent throw and beam pattern for helmet use, very light, Good form for low mounting on helmet, quality build and excellent cust. support.

MINUS
Inconsistent output, shorter than advertised runtimes, lower than average power output, for best performance additional external battery needed (IMO), price.

***There are no posts on this light in this thread but here's a link to a thread dedicated to the Hangover.
https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-hangover-discussion-1103700.html

Dual cell lights





















Ravemen PR900
Weight: 225 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (no)/25.4 - 35mm bars
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: Approx. 150 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Low price, good reliability, nice OLED display, surprisingly good off-road beam

MINUS
-








L&M Taz 1500
Weight: 230 grams w/mount (Amazon
Mount: Bar /Gopro interface (yes)/25.4 - 35mm bars
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: Approx. 80 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Customer service/support, reliability, availability, nice beam shape, output consistency

MINUS
Strap mount won't hold light in place, short runtime, light not powerful enough to support wide beam








Gloworm CX
Weight: 240 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (yes) + quarter turn interface/31.8 - 35mm bars/helmet mount included
Emitter Tint: NW (upcharge option)
Runtime in high: Approx. 160 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Customer service/support, reliability, availability, programmable presets, changeable optics, wired remote, chargeable while in operation from powerbank, field changeable batteries, super throw with xpg emitters

MINUS
Requires tool to tighten enough to remain stable on mount








Ituo Wiz20
Weight: 280 grams w/mount
Mount: Bar QR /Gopro interface (no)/25.4 - 35mm bars
Emitter Tint: NW
Runtime in high: Approx. 135 min.
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
Low price (currently $27on Amazon), changeable optics, programmable presets, excellent power output, consistent output, fantastic mode button, will not overheat, field changeable batteries

MINUS
reliability an issue with the Amazon sold lights, may no longer be available
Mole


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

MRMOLE - Wiz20 is no longer available 

As for those light's there is one more - to the Ravemen - It has quite high self discharge rate. After 2 months it needs more than 2 hours on fast charger, at the same time Fenix BC30R - 5 minutes.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dominik.M said:


> MRMOLE - Wiz20 is no longer available


Now I guess we get to wait and see if Ituo brings out the new models they've hinted about or just disappears.



> As for those light's there is one more - to the Ravemen - It has quite high self discharge rate. After 2 months it needs more than 2 hours on fast charger, at the same time Fenix BT30R - 5 minutes.


It would be great if you could write a paragraph or 2 about the Fenix (assuming it's still available). Why you like the light (if you do) is what I'm looking for. Thanks
Mole


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1258779
> 
> Bontrager RT Pro (Ion 1300)
> Weight: 185 grams w/mount
> ...


While there are certainly things about this light I don't like (you nailed it with the UI program, #1 complaint), the included bar mount does do 35mm as well--you have to remove the rubber shim and slot the lower half of the clamp into the other slot. It's snug, and always feels like you are going to break it, but it is an option...albeit one that is unlikely to survive frequent changes.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

wschruba said:


> While there are certainly things about this light I don't like (you nailed it with the UI program, #1 complaint), the included bar mount does do 35mm as well--you have to remove the rubber shim and slot the lower half of the clamp into the other slot. It's snug, and always feels like you are going to break it, but it is an option...albeit one that is unlikely to survive frequent changes.


Thanks, I did an edit on it so it reads correctly now. Nice light in spite of the less than ideal UI program.
Mole


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I find it fits and works very well on 35mm bars with the pivot shifted and both rubber shims removed. It grips well and is secure from rotation without the shims.


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't like Fenix - my personal favorite is ITUO Wiz20, but due to their unreasonable sales politics or simple greed, they are out of business (I think). I was talking to them about purchase of 1000 pcs of WIZ20 for 27$ - the answer was NO.

I like Fenix for ANSI compliance and hate it for handlebar mount... .
I've made a mistake I have B*C*30R.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Dominik.M said:


> I don't like Fenix - my personal favorite is ITUO Wiz20, but due to their unreasonable sales politics or simple greed, they are out of business (I think). I was talking to them about purchase of 1000 pcs of WIZ20 for 27$ - the answer was NO.


Wiz20 is my favorite of the self-contained lights I own too although the Gloworm CX is an equally good performer (better in some respects). I've also considered the possibility this may be it for Ituo even though they claim that's not the case. They say they will contact me if/when they decide to release any new products so can only hope to hear from Ituo in the future.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Bontrager Elite R (1000 lumen wider angle beam from Trek)*



I saw this new light from Bontrager in a email I got today. Physical clone of the RT Pro with 1000 lumens and a wider angle beam. Unfortunately retained the RT Pro's UI program but most importantly comes with that excellent high capacity battery so should make a great wider angle bar light for those who like longer rides.
Mole

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-accessories/bike-lights/bike-front-lights/bontrager-ion-elite-r-front-bike-light/p/27821/?colorCode=grey


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite Metro Plus 800 - New test light*











Even though it's still a couple of weeks till I'm medically cleared to ride again it didn't stop me from picking up this Cygolite. I can start with all the indoor testing and have always had interest in this model because of how well it maintained it's output consistency in it's "wetestlights" review. I think my light is a updated model since it has a boost mode + performs even better than the wetestlights example. So here's the light meter results. I'm impressed!

Click image to expand. Blue/Cateye Volt 800 Black/Niterider Lumina Micro 850 Red/Cygolite boost Green/Cygolite High Brown/Cygolite Mediuim








Output results are a pretty close match to the Sigma Buster 700 I recently tested which is a good thing considering how much I like that particular light. Output levels are higher than Cygolite's rating and more consistent than any single cell self-contained light I've ever seen. I'm also happy to note that max. case temperature I recorded in boost mode was only 107 degrees which is excellent. I was concerned about this because I noticed the light case is made of plastic but material/design seems to work just fine in 83 degree ambient temp cooled with a fan for over an hour.

Light does have a couple of warts (mount mainly) but seems pretty solid so far. Outdoor testing will confirm one way or the other. Looking forward to finishing up with the road test portion when they'll let me.
Mole

First Ride/UI impressions

Out the door about 3am this morning for the first ride with the 800+ and my first ride since the triple bi-pass that was done in April. Was still 89 degrees so I did take a couple of miles of the ride just running the light in boost for a temperature sensitivity check but as indoors no problems and it ran cooler than I expected. Also got to play around with the mode button and UI program. Everything on one program but it has a double click feature that takes you to boost with the double click and returns you to whatever mode you started from with the next click. Great for Hi(boost)/Low commuting mode or Hi(boost)/Lower mtn. biking. Unfortunately if you want to scroll through the 3 preset forward modes you still have to cycle through the flash mode to do that so not ideal but definitely livable as is the mode button that requires med. to hard pressure but works reliably. With the major exception of not fitting 35mm bars the bar mount seems to work fine. An accessory helmet mount (not included) comes with a Gopro style slide clip which would make any 35mm Gopro interface bar mount usable. Light seems to work great for an inexpensive light. Med. mode provides right at 470 lumens (measured) with a fairly wide beam and since the light output on this light doesn't degrade you get that output for over 2.5 hours. Will have to wait a while to test on longer rides as at this point my endurance is shorter than the runtime in boost mode.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dominik.M said:


> MRMOLE - Wiz20 is no longer available
> 
> *As for those light's there is one more - to the Ravemen - It has quite high self discharge rate. After 2 months it needs more than 2 hours on fast charger, *at the same time Fenix BC30R - 5 minutes.


Must be some sort of fluke or perhaps a bad cell or cells. I have the Raveman PR-1200. After having not touched it in months it looks to still have a full charge. Actually all of the Raveman products I own don't appear to have any major self-discharging issues.

*@Dominik*....I too would like to know more about your opinion of the Fenix lamp you own. Particularly about the beam pattern. You mentioned a problem with the mount. What was the issue with the mount?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1264459
> 
> 
> Even though it's still a couple of weeks till I'm medically cleared to ride again it didn't stop me from picking up this Cygolite. I can start with all the indoor testing and have always had interest in this model because of how well it maintained it's output consistency in it's "wetestlights" review. I think my light is a updated model since it has a boost mode + performs even better than the wetestlights example. So here's the light meter results. I'm impressed!
> ...


*First Ride/UI impressions*

Out the door about 3am this morning for the first ride with the 800+ and my first ride since the triple bi-pass that was done in April. Was still 89 degrees so I did take a couple of miles of the ride just running the light in boost for a temperature sensitivity check but as indoors no problems and it ran cooler than I expected. Also got to play around with the mode button and UI program. Everything on one program but it has a double click feature that takes you to boost with the double click and returns you to whatever mode you started from with the next click. Great for Hi(boost)/Low commuting mode or Hi(boost)/Lower mtn. biking. Unfortunately if you want to scroll through the 3 preset forward modes you still have to cycle through the flash mode to do that so not ideal but definitely livable as is the mode button that requires med. to hard pressure but works reliably. With the major exception of not fitting 35mm bars the bar mount seems to work fine. An accessory helmet mount (not included) comes with a Gopro style slide clip which would make any 35mm Gopro interface bar mount usable. Light seems to work great for an inexpensive light. Med. mode provides right at 470 lumens (measured) with a fairly wide beam and since the light output on this light doesn't degrade you get that output for over 2.5 hours. Will have to wait a while to test on longer rides as at this point my endurance is shorter than the runtime in boost mode.
Mole


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## frenco (Jan 7, 2017)

Some lights have a built in protection against heat, so they perform differently when stationary, when airflow is not cooling them down properly, have you taken that into account?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

frenco said:


> Some lights have a built in protection against heat, so they perform differently when stationary, when airflow is not cooling them down properly, have you taken that into account?


Yes, I have 12" fan I use to cool the lights when run indoors. I position it about 1 meter directly in front of the light so air flow is pretty good. I also measure ambient air temp when doing these tests since it directly affects running temps. Self-contained lights are usually a good choice for riding in higher temperatures because they generally have larger heat sink mass and surface area but there are exceptions.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Kudos to Cygolite for building a light that holds it's output level so nicely!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Blackburn Dayblazer 1100 test ride*











I was quite excited to get this light. Light weight, very high max lux numbers (good throw), promise of performance/efficiency a step above its competition through the use of two emitters compared to everyone elses one, and good reviews to boot. Initial testing weren't tooo impressive and ended up with so many issues I decided to contact Blackburn. Working with them was great and they sent me a new light with no questions asked but unfortunately the light had identical problems. Why the light has gotten good reviews from others I don't know? My lights overheat quickly in the highest mode, output degrades very quickly in the 800 claimed lumen med. mode but is usable at about 500 lumens where it is somewhat stable. and has limited runtimes. This mornings ride only confirmed the problems I had when doing indoor testing and since I have 2 examples from different sources I have to assume this is normal performance for this light. I'm going to contact Blackburn again to see what they have to say. I'd love to hear from someone else who owns one of these. Here's an output chart I made comparing the Blackburn's med. mode (black line) to my usual whipping boy light the Lumina Micro 850 high mode output and the red line represents a less expensive Sigma Buster 700 that IMO would be a better place to spend your money.









Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Putting the Blacckburn experience behind me I've been spending most of my rides using my other new light, the Cygolite Metro Plus 800 which has so far been a surprisingly positive experience! The fact that Cygolite somehow has figured out how to maintain consistent ooutput for 95% of the runtime in each preset mode even the highest output boost level is a big deal to me but probably not something all that noticeable (compared to other consistent performing lights) unless you consistently fully deplete your batteries capacity. So that aside I've also found the beam pattern surprisingly good on this light too. A couple of mornings ago I rode my SC Chameleon which is my only bike that uses 35mm bars and took a Bontrager 1300 along for lighting the way (since the Cygolite won't fit 35mm bars). This morning I did the same route on my Vassago with the Cygolite and was much happier with the Cygolite overall. If I needed the Bontrager's extra output for some reason or was doing longer ride I'd choose the Ion but for most of my riding would be happier with the Cygolites wider beam, easier to operate mode button and more functional UI.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sigma Buster 700 vs. Cygolite Metro Plus 800*

Did a little comparison ride between these two lights last night for something to do. A couple of my favorites who's usage was separated by several months of no cycling so in the Sigma's case a chance to refresh my memory. Both lights have similar tint and output but beam pattern changes the lighting effect. The Buster 700 has a slightly narrower beam that invests a lot less light around the front of the bike saving it for some additional lux at distance. Of the two the Buster 700 is the better helmet light and depending on your cruising speed maybe the best bar choice. Wider/more bar oriented Cygolite on the other hand has the perfect (for me) beam for road/MUP/trails combo style rides like I did last night. Enough of everything you need or want and no deficiencies to distract your eyes or concentration. Interesting to note that while both lights measure out about equal in their respective preset modes and I preceived them that way in the Hi/Boost settings, the Cygolite seemed more powerful than the Sigma set in the med. mode (mystery?). Also interesting for me is unlike my ride with the Cygolite/Blackburn combo there was no loser on last nights ride. It's always nice when a light out performs the manufacturer's claims which both these lights do + they both have easy/enjoyable to use UI programs/interfaces so good lights, good ride!
Mole

Lots of info on this so I hope it's not confusing. I ended up with 2 different Sigma Buster 700 lights that perform a little different so I've included results from both of those lights + the Cygolite Metro Plus 800.

Cygolite results are shown in black and decending order from the top (Boost/High/Med.)

Original Buster 700: High/Med. (red/green)

Buster 700 (2): High/Med. (pink/purple)

***Click on image to expand***


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

The Cygolites have always seemed to get good reviews. Nice to see that the one you have holds a steady output regardless of what mode is being used. Anyway you can provide a photo of the beam pattern?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Cygolites have always seemed to get good reviews.


So far the Metro Plus 800 has been a pleasant surprise for me as I've seen very little about Cygolite's except some unflattering comments from one of the Lumina Nazi's that used to post here.



> Nice to see that the one you have holds a steady output regardless of what mode is being used.


I'd like to know how they accomplished that using a single 18650 battery but at least it shows it is possible at this output level from a fairly inexpensive light. Unfortunately we shouldn't expect whatever tech. they used to be incorporated into all their lights!!! I'm also testing a Metro 950 but have only got a chance to run tests on its boost mode and it's needing almost all the lax standards set by ANSI to achieve it's 75 min. claimed boost runtime. It has considerably more power than what's claimed at turn on so I'm hoping will return to the flat output curve of the 800 in the less intense modes.



> Anyway you can provide a photo of the beam pattern?


I'll see what I can do. It was something like 114 here today and I'm trying to avoid the heat as much as possible coming off the heart surgery but I may get out super early before sunrise.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway you can provide a photo of the beam pattern?


Finally got a OK shot using my PR900 as a comparison since riding both lights has been a _"somewhat similar"_ experience for me and familar to you since you own Ravemen lights.
Mole
Ravemen/Cygolite


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I'd like to know how they accomplished that using a single 18650 battery but at least it shows it is possible at this output level from a fairly inexpensive light. Unfortunately we shouldn't expect whatever tech. they used to be incorporated into all their lights!!! I'm also testing a Metro 950 but have only got a chance to run tests on its boost mode and it's needing almost all the lax standards set by ANSI to achieve it's 75 min. claimed boost runtime. It has considerably more power than what's claimed at turn on so I'm hoping will return to the flat output curve of the 800 in the less intense modes.
> Mole


Metro Plus 800 Black descending order Boost/Hi/Med. - Metro 950 Red descenting order Boost/Hi./Med.







.
Here's the runtime vs. output results for the Cygolite metro 800 & 950. Unfortunately the 950 wasn't able to match the 800's flat to the end runtime results or the extra manufacturer's claimed higher mode runtimes.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Those lines clearly show the effects of trying to drive more current to get a little bit more light without using a higher capacity battery.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Those lines clearly show the effects of trying to drive more current to get a little bit more light without using a higher capacity battery.


Ultimately whatever trickery Cygolite used to make the 800 perform so well wasn't applied to this light and probably not their 1100 either! Both are still good lights though so don't want to make to big a deal out of this since they probably perform as good or better than competing lights. Too bad though cause it definitely makes a more useful light for those who like to use the majority of the lights battery capacity. Hope for the upgrade soon.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite 800/950 update*

What were dealing with from a user point of view is basically the same light with slightly different output setting for the presets. The 950 does weigh 10 grams more for some reason unknown to me but lights are physically the same except for a tag under the front of the light.









I was thinking the larger capacity 950/1100 may have had a larger capacity battery since the 950 has a longer claimed runtime in Hi and Boost but those longer times didn't pan out (looking at the output vs. runtime curves I see no evidence of more battery capacity). The 950 does give you more lumen's though and if the 800's steady flow of approx 900 lumens in boost isn't enough for you you can expect about 200 extra with the 950 though not as steady or for as long. Also interesting is the output measurements I got from the 950 were basically a match to the ones 'wetestlights" showed for the Metro 1100 (my measurements always closely match this site) so competitive with highest capacity single cell lights from Bontrager and Niterider.

Metro 950/red line - "CLICK IMAGE TO EXPAND"








I've been enjoying using these lights for the last few weeks. Double click to boost and single click back to original preset level has worked well for me to minimize the PITA of a single program with flash in the mode rotation. Also need to address the lack of 35mm bar compatibility (Gopro adapters are available). Nice lights though and along with the Sigma Buster 700 and my "to this point favorite self-contained light" the Wiz20 lights I give extra points to because I REALLY enjoy using them!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Finally got a OK shot using my PR900 as a comparison since riding both lights has been a _"somewhat similar"_ experience for me and familar to you since you own Ravemen lights.
> Mole
> Ravemen/Cygolite
> View attachment 1269823
> View attachment 1269825


Thanks for supplying the beam shots. The Cygolite does look like it has a nice beam pattern and lots of throw. However since I usually use the mid level on my lamps l'd like to see what the mid-level output looks like ( whatever mode supplies about 2-3 hrs of run time ).


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks for supplying the beam shots. The Cygolite does look like it has a nice beam pattern and lots of throw. However since I usually use the mid level on my lamps l'd like to see what the mid-level output looks like ( whatever mode supplies about 2-3 hrs of run time ).


I did a 4 mi. walk instead of riding this morning but will try to get back over to that area in the next couple of days. Medium mode on the Metro 800 runs a steady 490 lumen till just past 2 hrs. and tapers to about 450 by 2:15 but that's about it for the light. More than adequate for MUP use IMO.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Cygolite Clone > Ceco 1000*

@ MrMole; I finally got the Ceco 1000 in today. Couldn't wait to get home tonight so I could try it out. Sadly as night came we had a deluge. A very large and intense rain. Didn't last long but really did get the roads wet. I hate riding at night when the roads are wet but I gotta try out a new light. Shining it around in my house it seems really bright when on high. Looks like it'll have nice throw and a decent amount of spill that should help in seeing a wider area nearer to the bike. Definitely not as wide as the Raveman lights though.

I have to admit though there is not much difference in brightness between the levels. This makes it hard to determine what mode you are in. This means you might have to scroll threw the UI a couple times till you find the output level you want. Making this harder, the UI starts off on the lowest mode and goes up. There is a number of modes so you need to get the count right to know the mode you want. Definitely will require a learning curve till it becomes intuitive. The thing is, even the lowest output mode looks bright to me while shining it around in my home. Really hoping that the stated run times are accurate. No indication in the instructions just how bright the different modes are but I would swear the difference in modes may only be 100-150 lumen ea.

Can't wait to see how well this works on the road. The instructions indicate that the lamp will start blinking when it gets down to the last ten minutes of run time. I like that. Another feature I discovered by accident is that the lamp can run while being charged ( :eekster: ) Now with that said I can't say for sure that charging is actually going on when plugged into a USB charger but what I can say is that the lamp works while power is plugged in. At some point I'll want to test that with an external power source and see how it compares to the Raveman CR-700.

Well...at 3:00am I took it for a quick spin. The light seems to work great. Too bad the roads were wet which kept me from seeing just how well it would work on a dry road. Was having no problems on the wet roads though. Sadly not a dry road in sight tonight. Damn, felt good outside tonight. I felt like I could of done a twenty...*sigh*....but not at 3AM. :nonod: Need to get a quick bite before going to bed. Looking forward to tomorrow and hope it doesn't rain again.

Edit: parting comment; Damn thing is real hard to get off the quick release slide mount. ( edit II, next day )...The mode / power button is kind of hard to work with as it is small and hard. The lamp offers a nice bright white beam pattern, no bluish tint or artifacts in the beam pattern. The beam pattern lights up a nice wide area ( maybe ~ 10-13 ft wide and has excellent throw even on the lower modes. Doesn't light up the peripheral like the Raveman lamps ( which helps you see deer grazing on the side of the road ). Considering that the beam pattern is not a cut-off type that might actually be a good thing as it shouldn't bother approaching traffic on the other side of the road as much. If this lamp had a remote I _might_ favor it over the Raveman CR-700. That said I'm staying with my CR-900 as my main light. Still, not a bad light for just under $40 USD.

Edit # IV...Looks like I have another day of rain. Crossing my fingers hoping that the roads are dry by the time I get home.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> @ MrMole; I finally got the Ceco 1000 in today. Couldn't wait to get home tonight so I could try it out. Sadly as night came we had a deluge. A very large and intense rain. Didn't last long but really did get the roads wet. I hate riding at night when the roads are wet but I gotta try out a new light. Shining it around in my house it seems really bright when on high. Looks like it'll have nice throw and a decent amount of spill that should help in seeing a wider area nearer to the bike. Definitely not as wide as the Raveman lights though.
> 
> I have to admit though there is not much difference in brightness between the levels. This makes it hard to determine what mode you are in. This means you might have to scroll threw the UI a couple times till you find the output level you want. Making this harder, the UI starts off on the lowest mode and goes up. There is a number of modes so you need to get the count right to know the mode you want. Definitely will require a learning curve till it becomes intuitive. The thing is, even the lowest output mode looks bright to me while shining it around in my home. Really hoping that the stated run times are accurate. No indication in the instructions just how bright the different modes are but I would swear the difference in modes may only be 100-150 lumen ea.
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty good so far. Hopefully we can add this to the list of usable off-brands. Does the Ceco have similar vertical fluting on the lens/optic cover like the pictured Cygolite?









Gotta say I loved how excited you sounded about getting a new light and testing it out. Made me smile reading your post!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Sounds pretty good so far. Hopefully we can add this to the list of usable off-brands. Does the Ceco have similar vertical fluting on the lens/optic cover like the pictured Cygolite?
> 
> View attachment 1273725
> 
> ...


I added more edited comments while you were posting so check out my last post again. No, the Ceco 1000 does not have the vertical fluting of the lens. That is the type of thing that makes one a brand name and the other a Chinese clone knock-off.

Since it doesn't provide a cut-off lens I wouldn't recommend the Ceco for riding on MUP's because even on the lowest mode it is quite bright ( although I suppose you could tilt the lamp down if riding an MUP ).


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> @ MrMole;
> 
> The lamp offers a nice bright white beam pattern, no bluish tint or artifacts in the beam pattern. The beam pattern lights up a nice wide area ( maybe ~ 10-13 ft wide and has excellent throw even on the lower modes. .


I'm thinking this may be the niche for this light. Broad appeal of a do it all light is what will sell the most units so most are designed with a compromise beam that's not too narrow but limiting for best throw. Best throwers I've tried rely on lots of lumens and end up being heavier and far less comfortable than the sub 150 gram lights. Without any beam widening trickery like the Cygolite's veined lens surface to deal with and hopefully all it's claimed 1000 lumens it will be interesting to see what kind of max. lux numbers it will produce + runtimes and helmet mount options. Looking forward to your future posts to fill in the blanks.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Going for a ride tonight. Yep, the Ceco could make for an excellent helmet lamp if it weren't for the fact that the mode button is kind of funky. Still nothing beats my Convoy M1 for helmet duties ( with custom over-driven XP-L Hi emitter ). Still at some point I'll likely give the Ceco 1000 a try on the helmet. Even so you have to love a good torch as a helmet light because it allows you to carry and switch out batteries if need be.

I'll try to get a night road beam shot once it gets dark. ( I'm starting in the day ).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*First ride with the Ceco 1000*

Rare for me to start a road ride in the day. I rarely get a chance to do that since I usually work at night. Absolutely beautiful day for a bike ride. Nice to see a sunset from the saddle once in a while. Didn't really need my lights for most of the ride. Actually I had to find a place to pull off the side of the road just so I could kill some time while waiting for the sun to set.

When it finally got dark enough to need full lights I only had about three miles left in the planned 16 miler. At that point I switch on the Ceco 1000 and started playing with the different modes. The Ceco does extremely well on it's lower modes and even better on the higher one's ( four steady modes in all ). The last section of road on this ride is a real fun-time / high speed roller coaster. As such I kicked up the output to mid-range and let her rip. Most of the time I was riding in the middle of the road. ( low traffic in this area ). The Ceco 1000 besides having very good throw also lit up the entire lane I was in ( with a little extra spill to the sides ). With the excellent throw I had no need to be timid. Occasionally I would switch over to the CR-900 just to get a quick comparison but no doubt the Ceco lets you see farther and more clearer in the distance than the CR-900.

Now when I got back to my car I wanted to see what the Ceco 1000 looked like from the front when on. With the light on the med. setting I walked a hundred ft. or so and looked at the output from the front. OH MY! :eekster:....damn thing is blinding as hell, at least the way I had it aimed. Then I turned on the Raveman CR-900 to mid-level. The 900 was only half as annoying as the Ceco. A cut-off beam pattern makes a very big difference to on-coming traffic no doubt. That said the Ceco is still a very nice light. If you don't want to blind on-coming traffic just point it down a bit when cars are approaching. Like I said before, not the lamp to use if you are riding MUP's a lot. Very impressive on the road though.

At some point I'll have to do a run time test. I hate doing run time tests but before I give this lamp a ringing endorsement I'm going to have to see how well the battery holds up. I thought I noticed some slight drop in output when using the lamp so I'll have to do a "timed lux output test" as well ( I'll try to do both at the same time when I get a chance ).

Good news on the "runs while charging" issue. When I got home I hooked the Ceco 1000 up to my USB meter. It seems the lamp does actually draw current when the light is on ( in any mode ).. The higher the mode, the more current it drew...however, the current draw never goes over 1 amp. With that said I'm pretty sure you should be able to get close to double the listed run times if using an external USB battery ( or more if using the lower modes...depending of course on the size of your USB battery bank ). I like that. Anyway, at some point I'll need to test that as well.

Had such a great ride today I'm ready to go out again for another ride! I'm going see if I can get another 10-13 miles in locally. Weather that is this nice I hate to waste sitting around the homestead.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> At some point I'll have to do a run time test. I hate doing run time tests but before I give this lamp a ringing endorsement I'm going to have to see how well the battery holds up. I thought I noticed some slight drop in output when using the lamp so I'll have to do a "timed lux output test" as well ( I'll try to do both at the same time when I get a chance ).


When you get around to doing this I have a request. I'd appreciate it if you would refresh my memory on your test methods (Center beam max. lux measured at what distance?). Also if its not too much trouble if you could run a high beam test on your fully charged PR1200 and I'd be able to calibrate my light meter to yours since I have measurements on that light. That way I'd be able to more accurately compare the Ceco to any light I have. Last question is there a Gopro mount option for the Ceco for helmet mounting? Thanks!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> When you get around to doing this I have a request. I'd appreciate it if you would refresh my memory on your test methods (Center beam max. lux measured at what distance?). Also if its not too much trouble if you could run a high beam test on your fully charged PR1200 and I'd be able to calibrate my light meter to yours since I have measurements on that light. That way I'd be able to more accurately compare the Ceco to any light I have. Last question is there a Gopro mount option for the Ceco for helmet mounting? Thanks!
> Mole


When I do a lux test I only do those to give some indication of percentage of output drop over a period of time. All lamps drop in output once the battery begins to drain but the better lamps seem to drop less that the more cheaper lamps. Basically I do the test in my entrance hallway. The hallway is ~ 5-6 meters long and about 3.5 ft. wide. The walls are white. I try to set up for 5 meters and aim the center of the beam at the meter. I use a small fan to cool the lamp. ( Sadly the motor in my small fan is burnt out so I need to buy a new fan ) I don't have a lux meter. I'm only using a lux meter app on my phone so it's likely not as sensitive as an actual lux meter. I do have a Samsung S9 phone and it has a pretty good camera on it so the light sensor should be half decent and good enough for novice level comparisons. No Gopro or helmet mount for this lamp but if the mounting platform matches the Cygolite perhaps they have something that might work with the Ceco (?).

I did go out again last night after my first ride. Odd how things change with a change of scenery. The roads where I live are not in the greatest shape, particularly near the shoulders so I try to ride in the road as much as possible. There are also lots of sharp turns on my local rides so the Ceco was not as useful as the Raveman CR-900 as the 900 has the wider beam pattern. I really needed to mount the Ceco on the right side of the handlebars so more of the beam pattern is nearer the edge of the road. Unfortunately that is where I mount the CR-900 and because it's shimmed to level the cut-off I really don't want to remove the Raveman mount.

I did take some beam pattern photos last night with my phone. Just have to move them to my desk top computer so I can edit the photos. I'll see if I can get that done later. Then I have to remember what photo is what.  ( I may have to redo the photos. Seems I didn't hold the camera the same way for all the photos. )

On a side note, the Ceco 1000 seems to take a long time to recharge. The second ride I did last night couldn't of taken more than half an hour. Took almost more than an hour to recharge ( although I didn't actually note the actual time. My CR series lamps on the other hand seem to recharge much faster. The Ceco mount does not pivot. Would really help a lot if it did.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> No Gopro or helmet mount for this lamp but if the mounting platform matches the Cygolite perhaps they have something that might work with the Ceco (?).


That's a possibility, the more I see on the Ceco the more I think it's a Cygolite clone. Optional helmet mount for Cygolitre looks like it may have a Gopro style interface and there is a aftermarket cygolite Gopro adapter available too.



> The Ceco mount does not pivot. Would really help a lot if it did.


Odd, one of the sidebar photos in the Amazon add shows that it does. Rt side, third photo from bottom (sidebar) say adjustable swivel.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ....Odd, one of the sidebar photos in the Amazon add shows that it does. Rt side, third photo from bottom (sidebar) say adjustable swivel.
> Mole


Just took a good look at the mount. ( really is hard to get the lamp off once it is on the slide mount ). With the lamp off there is a phillip head screw on the top. If you loosen that screw the mount will pivot but when re-tightened the position is then locked in...which means you can not pivot the lamp while on the fly.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just took a good look at the mount. ( really is hard to get the lamp off once it is on the slide mount ). With the lamp off there is a phillip head screw on the top. If you loosen that screw the mount will pivot but when re-tightened the position is then locked in...which means you can not pivot the lamp while on the fly.


Considering the design similarities and the fact that both the Cygolite 800 and 950 are horizontally adjustable I took one of the mounts apart and not surprisingly found a commonly used plastic washer that allows for rotation while still maintaining enough tightness to remain stable. Even though the Cygolite is a QR vs the strap on the Ceco the single screw retention is basically the same and I'm guessing the washer is something left off the clone (Ceco) mount which could easily be fitted with a substitute. Did I guess right?
Mole


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Other light details as requested... 
Moon Meteor Storm Pro 
($80 MerlinCycles)
Weight: 208 grams 
Mount: Quick release handlebar mount (fits 22-35mm) and helmet mount
Emitter Tint: CW 
Runtime in high: 2.3 hrs
USB chargeable: yes

PLUS
VLS (Variable Lumen System) allows you to set any lumen from 0 to 1700 Lm, light mode memory, light lock mode, Matrix LED Display, 1700 Lumen Full power mode with a boost mode of 2000 Lumens, 5 steady and 5 flash modes, Over heat protection system, 3.6V 3350 mAh battery, remote button for bar or helmet

MINUS
Weight feels heavy on the helmet

It's an excellent quality night light! It has a really good beam pattern that's symmetrically round no matter how you rotate it. The throw is pretty good! Has a self-contained battery which can be replaced. Everything about this light is high quality, very well constructed, and very robust.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Heist30 said:


> Other light details as requested...
> Moon Meteor Storm Pro
> ($80 MerlinCycles)
> Weight: 208 grams
> ...


Thanks for posting on this light. I'm on the Merlin site a lot and keep looking at this one but between me focusing on some of the more popular single cell lights and health problems that have kept me off the bike for most of the year the Meteor Storm Pro is still on the list of things I want to check out. That VLS feature sounds pretty interesting. Do you know when they first started using that feature and is it simple/easy to use? I agree that this would be heavy for helmet use and am wondering if you also use the light bar mounted? Beam shots on the Moon website make the beam look a bit narrow with lots of throw which would be great for helmet use but not so great on the bars so your impressions specifically on the beam for bar use would be appreciated. The Storm Pro definitely has lots of features and performance for the money, just trying to figure out its personality.
Mole

Moon site beamshot


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Considering the design similarities and the fact that both the Cygolite 800 and 950 are horizontally adjustable I took one of the mounts apart and not surprisingly found a commonly used plastic washer that allows for rotation while still maintaining enough tightness to remain stable. Even though the Cygolite is a QR vs the strap on the Ceco the single screw retention is basically the same and I'm guessing the washer is something left off the clone (Ceco) mount which could easily be fitted with a substitute. Did I guess right?
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1274311


On the Ceco the part that pivots must be a part with teeth. Once loosened it ratchets at the setting you chose ( then you retighten the screw ). After I got home last night from a nice 18.5 miler I adjusted the Ceco just one position to the right. Not sure how this will look when I ride but I should know by tonight when I take it for a ride again.

Going forward if it points too far off to the right then it might be possible to disassemble the mount and maybe replace the part that has teeth with a rubber washer. If that works I'll be able to adjust on the fly. Thanks for the idea. :thumbsup:

Now about that Moon lamp the guy mentioned. Sounds very interesting but like you said it looks like a very narrow beam pattern


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> Thanks for posting on this light...your impressions specifically on the beam for bar use would be appreciated. The Storm Pro definitely has lots of features and performance for the money, just trying to figure out its personality.
> Mole


The VLS feature is new for this year I believe, it is not on the model I got last year. I had it helmet mounted with BT40S on the bar and rode at normal single track pace. With helmet fitted snugly you do forget its there. With only the Moon bar mounted, it was just as effective as the BT40S for tight twisty trails and definitely brighter. Soon I'll take and post photos from a straight wooded trail with log features to show its character.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Heist30 said:


> The VLS feature is new for this year I believe, it is not on the model I got last year. I had it helmet mounted with BT40S on the bar and rode at normal single track pace. With helmet fitted snugly you do forget its there. With only the Moon bar mounted, it was just as effective as the BT40S for tight twisty trails and definitely brighter. Soon I'll take and post photos from a straight wooded trail with log features to show its character.


:thumbsup: Look forward to seeing the photo! I spent some time on the Moon-Sport site tonight looking over the specs. on the different Meteor Storm models and I have another question although I'm not sure if it pertains to your older version. It looks like the two emitters have a different beam angle (described as wide and narrow) that are controllable individually. Is that how your light works? Was also surprised they even have a model specifically set up for fog that utilizes 1 6500K emitter paired with 1 4000K emitter that can be operated individually (Wow, surprised to see that level of specialization). Familiarization with this light is proving to be interesting!
Mole

http://www.moon-sport.com/


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*comments on Moon M. Storm and Ceco 1000*

About the Moon Meteor Storm; The website lists two different beam projection angles. That has me confused as I see no visible difference in the two emitter optics.

Funny but when I hit the link that MRM put up my McAfee anti-virus gave me a pop-up warning me this was a dangerous site and asked me if I still wanted to go there....I said yes and was very disappointed that there was no porn anywhere on the site. 

*@MRM*; When I adjusted the Ceco 1000 a notch over to the right that spot turned out to be perfect so I'm good. I took it for a short ride last night and the new position was a vast improvement ( which of course makes the lamp much more usable )

Seems the best setting on the Ceco that I like the most is called the medium setting ( steady output settings are as listed; High, med-high, medium and low ). The medium setting is just about perfect for anything other than an all out super fast down hill run. Even better that setting is listed as providing 3 hrs of run time. It's now time to test the run time which I will do on the med-high setting so I don't have to wait too long or worry about over heating. ( med-high is listed as 2 hrs. of run time ) BTW, I put a little _White Lightning lube_ on the mount and now have no problem removing the lamp from the quick release mount.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1267277
> 
> 
> I was quite excited to get this light. Light weight, very high max lux numbers (good throw), promise of performance/efficiency a step above its competition through the use of two emitters compared to everyone elses one, and good reviews to boot. Initial testing weren't tooo impressive and ended up with so many issues I decided to contact Blackburn. Working with them was great and they sent me a new light with no questions asked but unfortunately the light had identical problems. Why the light has gotten good reviews from others I don't know? My lights overheat quickly in the highest mode, output degrades very quickly in the 800 claimed lumen med. mode but is usable at about 500 lumens where it is somewhat stable. and has limited runtimes. This mornings ride only confirmed the problems I had when doing indoor testing and since I have 2 examples from different sources I have to assume this is normal performance for this light. I'm going to contact Blackburn again to see what they have to say. I'd love to hear from someone else who owns one of these. Here's an output chart I made comparing the Blackburn's med. mode (black line) to my usual whipping boy light the Lumina Micro 850 high mode output and the red line represents a less expensive Sigma Buster 700 that IMO would be a better place to spend your money.
> ...


This light really bothers me! I continue to look around and still have yet to find another bad professional or customer review. The two examples I have (from different sources) overheat so easily in the highest preset mode (and I'm not surprised after removing the battery access cover which is the entire exposed surface of the back 3/4 of the light whose only thermal path is a small area around the one screw that holds it on) yet no complaints from any other source I can find (???). Maybe other owners don't care about highest mode performance? Makes no sense to me that anyone would spend $90 to get a 1100 lumen rated light that will only run a couple of minutes in top mode before stepping down (making that mode useless IMO) but it does work "OK" in the med (800 lumen) mode. So today's predawn ride I only used what was needed and stayed in the low (400 lumen) mode for 95% of the ride and from the rider's point of view it worked pretty well. This light has lots of top spill (see ride picture of how it was aimed) but provided good visibility. The med. mode initially provides quite a bit more brightness but output degrades fairly rapidly (still better than the very popular Lumina Micro 850) and even though the claimed 2 hr. runtime is reachable usable is less than 90 min. So low is probably best usable mode (I need to do a runtime vs output test on the low mode for this light). Would especially love to hear from someone who owns a Dayblazer 1100 and is satisfied with it. I love pretty much any bike light but this one I just don't get.
Mole








Blackburn Dayblazer 1100
Black = Med. mode.......Red = low mode


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Hey Cat, your Ceco 1000 has appreciated on Amazon to $57.95
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Hey Cat, your Ceco 1000 has appreciated on Amazon to $57.95
> Mole


Check that again. I think you saw the version that is sold along with a rear lamp. That one is $57.95. The Ceco 1000 by itself is $39.95.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Check that again. I think you saw the version that is sold along with a rear lamp. That one is $57.95. The Ceco 1000 by itself is $39.95.


Rear Lamp, where did that come from? Stupid me!!!
Mole


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> :thumbsup: Look forward to seeing the photo! ... It looks like the two emitters have a different beam angle (described as wide and narrow) that are controllable individually. Is that how your light works? ...


My model does have the wide and narrow but not controllable.

These were taken on iPhone so not the greatest... BT40S vs MMSP

BT40S High 1600









MMSP High 1700









BT40S High 1600









MMSP High 1700









BT40S High 1600









MMSP High 1700









BT40S High 1600









MMSP High 1700


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Heist30 said:


> My model does have the wide and narrow but not controllable.


Thanks!! I'm not 100% sure you can adjust the new ones individually it's just an assumption I made from the way Moon listed output and runtimes for wide and narrow mode. Curious if you think that beam shot I posted from Moon is a accurate representation of what you see using your light?
Mole


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Had trouble with the photos... they're in my last post now...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New light series from Ravemen & Cateye*



I just spotted these new light listings. I don't know anything about them other than what's on their respective site descriptions but anything totally new is always of interest. Both series are priced on the lower end, Ravemen is a new line in addition to existing models, Cateye may be a replacement for the Volt series (which I'm not sure is a good thing yet).









Interesting thing I saw on these lights is throw appears to be considerably greater than any of the CR models.

https://www.ravemen.com/product/LR800P.html









Price points are a lot lower than the Volt series but at the expense of smaller capacity batteries and shorter runtimes.

https://www.cateyeamerica.com/ampp-lights

Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I just spotted these new light listings. I don't know anything about them other than what's on their respective site descriptions but anything totally new is always of interest. Both series are priced on the lower end, Ravemen is a new line in addition to existing models, Cateye may be a replacement for the Volt series (which I'm not sure is a good thing yet).
> 
> View attachment 1275591
> 
> ...


The LR series from Raveman look interesting but.....major deal killer....the battery. If I were to buy the 800P, like all the other Raveman self-contained lamps I'm going to be using the mid-mode ( second mode from the max output ) most of the time. That mode on the 800P is only listing the second mode as having a 1.9 hr. run time ( @ 450 lumen ). Not enough run time for my needs. I like knowing the second mode will give me at least 2.5hrs. If they were going to limit the battery capacity to 2600 mAh they should have set the second mode to 400 lumen ( like the CR-700 )

Both the Raveman CR-700 and CR-900 will give me 2.5 hrs or more ( CR-700 ~ 2.7 hrs @ 400 lumen ) ( CR-900 ~ 2.5 hrs. @ 450 lumen with 3000 mAh battery)

The 2600mAh battery that is used in the new 800P is probably the same battery used in the CR-700 ( and lower models ). I'm having a hard time understanding "Why?" Raveman continues to use only a 2600 mAh battery in all of their self-contained lights except for the CR-900. The new 800P should at least be using a battery in the 3000 mAh range.

With lamps like these the second mode is the "bread and butter" mode, the mode most likely to be used 80% of the time. If you think you might like to ride more than two hours this is the mode you are using most of the time. I should also mention that the CR series with it's cut-off beam pattern and more choices for lower steady modes is the more practical solution if you ride both road and paved MUP's. I like the "eco" mode on the CR series because it allows you to "power down to the max" to keep from blinding pedestrians and other users when on MUP's.

The new LR series seems to have eliminated the "eco" mode....big mistake IMO, especially if the LR series has more throw. ( 200 lumen is still blinding to people in the direct line of sight unless you have the option to power down another lower mode ( via remote ) or otherwise tilt the lamp down when you see people. Need I say, tilting the lamp down is not only tedious and inconvenient but is not always going to be an option because it means taking one hand off the bars to move the lamp. Depending on the situation that might not be something you can do safely and keep control of the bike.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The LR series from Raveman look interesting but.....major deal killer....the battery. If I were to buy the 800P, like all the other Raveman self-contained lamps I'm going to be using the mid-mode ( second mode from the max output ) most of the time. That mode on the 800P is only listing the second mode as having a 1.9 hr. run time ( @ 450 lumen ). Not enough run time for my needs. I like knowing the second mode will give me at least 2.5hrs. If they were going to limit the battery capacity to 2600 mAh they should have set the second mode to 400 lumen ( like the CR-700 )
> 
> Both the Raveman CR-700 and CR-900 will give me 2.5 hrs or more ( CR-700 ~ 2.7 hrs @ 400 lumen ) ( CR-900 ~ 2.5 hrs. @ 450 lumen with 3000 mAh battery)
> 
> ...


Sounds like the CR's are a better fit for you and I get it. Comparing two of my very similar lights, the Sigma Buster 700 and Cygolite Metro Plus 800, The Sigma has a nicer highest mode (a little more power in a nicer tint), nicer UI and mode button feel and if I used these lights mostly off road I'd pick the Sigma as my favorite. Thing is though is with my health problems this yr. I've not graduated to doing any serious dirt riding (I'd probably use other lights for that anyway) and riding canal paths and very light trails the med. and low modes get more usage. In those modes the Cygolite maybe only runs about 30-50 lumens higher than the Sigma but that works better for me and overall I like and use the Cygolite quite a bit more. If you asked my to describe these two lights individually I might say the same exact things but minor differences make the Cygolite the best fit and my favorite. I'm thinkoing the LR is going to be a better fit for faster riders that maybe limited by the CR's throw. I think this one is still on my interested list.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ... If you asked my to describe these two lights individually I might say the same exact things but minor differences make the Cygolite the best fit and my favorite. I'm thinking the LR is going to be a better fit for faster riders that may be limited by the CR's throw. I think this one is still on my interested list.
> Mole


I have to admit....I am very interested in the Raveman LR800P. Since I started messing around with the Ceco 1000 I've found the beam pattern ( longer throw ) to be quite useful. On my last ride I had a novel idea that it might be interesting to use both the Ceco and Raveman CR-900 at the same time....both set on the third mode. This turned out to be a really good idea. As far as beam patterns go, they compliment each other very well. Not to mention if I find I want a little more side light I just crank the CR-900 up to it's med/high mode.

The Ceco 1000 has turned out to be a most useful lamp. I find myself using it more and more. It does have one major fault though. The U.I. scrolls from lower to high. Personally I like a "road lamp" to scroll from High to low. My reasoning behind this is because if you are using a lamp on the road and you are in a fairly bright mode, you want the option to be able to quickly dim the lamp. Can't do this with the Ceco. If you are using the brighter mid/high mode and want to dim the lamp, you have to go through the brightest mode first and then the flashing mode to get to the lower steady modes. Do not know what they were thinking when they programmed the U. I. this way. Now what I _can do_ is turn the Ceco off if I don't want to blind anyone. As long as the CR-900 is on a lower mode I really don't have to do anything else. Right now this is working for me but man, my handlebars are really starting to get crowded.

Anyway...I'm now thinking that it might be interesting to do the same thing but with one of the LR-800P's. ( with the optional remote ) Wish I knew how much they are asking for one of these. I don't see them being sold on any website yet.. _( * The search for the perfect beam pattern continues... )_


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## Speedy-DK (Oct 28, 2014)

The LR800P is listed on the 'Merlin Cycles' site to a price of 53 EUR = 59 USD:

https://www.merlincycles.com/ravemen-lr800p-usb-rechargeable-front-light-155959.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway...I'm now thinking that it might be interesting to do the same thing but with one of the LR-800P's. ( with the optional remote ) Wish I knew how much they are asking for one of these. I don't see them being sold on any website yet.. _( * The search for the perfect beam pattern continues... )_


From the pictures I've seen your PR1200 remote may be identical?
Mole


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## mdgentile (Mar 7, 2017)

Any idea how the Outbound Hangover will compare to these? I'm in the market for a self contained helmet light.


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

So if youi had to recommend a self contained light for rocky trail lighting that had helmet mount and a wide angle with ability to make out over a 1000 Lumens for 90 minutes and up to 3.5-4 hours around 600-700 lumens what would everyones favorite be.

I still love my Cygolite TrindenX with extended battery that seems to go forever but thinking of picking up a new self contained helmet mount light for quick and ease of use.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Speedy-DK said:


> The LR800P is listed on the 'Merlin Cycles' site to a price of 53 EUR = 59 USD:
> 
> https://www.merlincycles.com/ravemen-lr800p-usb-rechargeable-front-light-155959.html


I'll be danged. I checked the Merlin website yesterday and did not see it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mdgentile said:


> Any idea how the Outbound Hangover will compare to these? I'm in the market for a self contained helmet light.


Of course we won't for sure on the Hangover till they release a production unit but I'd expect the Hangover to be much better at everything except price. The Ravemen (assuming that's the light your referring to) is more of a commuter light from what I can see.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HEMIjer said:


> So if youi had to recommend a self contained light for rocky trail lighting that had helmet mount and a wide angle with ability to make out over a 1000 Lumens for 90 minutes and up to 3.5-4 hours around 600-700 lumens what would everyones favorite be.
> 
> I still love my Cygolite TrindenX with extended battery that seems to go forever but thinking of picking up a new self contained helmet mount light for quick and ease of use.


For MTB'n on the helmet....Self-contained isn't going to work well. If you are running anything over 1000 lumen the battery is going to drain really fast. For me I have a choice to use either a Wiz XP-3 or Gemini Duo and then mount a 2-cell battery to the helmet. Even that feels too heavy on the head to me. My best option for self-contained (mtb) helmet use is my Convoy M1 torch. I can run mine on a mode that is about 600 lumen and that works pretty well and I can carry extra 18650 cells if I'm going to be riding longer than two hours. Of course if I let the M1 run @ 600 lumen continuously I'd likely only see about 1.25 hrs of run time on a single cell and I'm sure the output would likely drop significantly somewhere around the 1 hr. mark. ( _**please note; My M1 is a custom version. Boost mode is around 1200 lumen but the boost mode has a timer to prevent over heating. I think mine is set around 1.5-2 minutes ( I forget now ) )_

The Outbound Hangover is a new lamp. If it does what the manufacturers say it will do this might be a better option. However, it's still a self contained lamp so run time will be limited. I doubt it will get over three hours if using the highest output mode and no telling how much throw it will have using the multiple LED strategy. I'm not shooting it down, just need to see some user reviews and beam shots. If it can throw at least 150 feet on the brightest mode and last at least 2.5 hrs without feeling like you have a lead weight on your head, the Hangover could be a great option for the helmet when mountain biking at night.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'll be danged. I checked the Merlin website yesterday and did not see it.


They stuck it close to the tail end of the light listings so it was easy to miss. The Merlin site is actually where I first saw it so it's been there for a few days anyway.
Mole


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

"If it can throw at least 150 feet on the brightest mode and last at least 2.5 hrs without feeling like you have a lead weight on your head"

Unless we've had some new battery tech or significant LED tech the last 6 months or so I doubt this can be accomplished.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Outbound Hangover is a new lamp. If it does what the manufacturers say it will do this might be a better option. However, it's still a self contained lamp so run time will be limited. I doubt it will get over three hours if using the highest output mode and no telling how much throw it will have using the multiple LED strategy. I'm not shooting it down, just need to see some user reviews and beam shots. If it can throw at least 150 feet on the brightest mode and last at least 2.5 hrs without feeling like you have a lead weight on your head, the Hangover could be a great option for the helmet when mountain biking at night.


2 hrs. @ 800-900 lumens (consistent), 100 grams total weight w/battery. I believe this is a usb charge on the fly light so extending the total runtime should be no problem. Light unit weight + being able to position your alt. power source lower should make this a self-contained mounting dream. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised but am not expecting to see 150' of throw. As you said, "if it meets all its claims". Time will tell!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Whats new!*



First I want to acknowledge the email I got from Outbound updating production status of the new Hangover light. Unfortunately the news is there's going to be a delay in release to fix some things Matt wasn't satisfied with. So while we wait I have 2 new lights coming (Moon Meteor Storm Pro & Ravemen LR800P). The Ravemen is a totally new light so interesting to see what I get. The MMSP has been around for a while and is a higher powered dual battery/emitter light that I picked up for a little under $80, so affordable and lots of good customer reviews (we'll see).

Updates on newer lights I'm currently riding with (Cygolite 800 & 950, Blackburn Dayblazer 1100, Sigma Buster 700)?

Most of my ride time recently has been spent using the Cygolite 800. Riding around on the canal banks is where I've spent most of the time in my currebt cardiac recovery condition so med/low gets the most use (on the 800). I like the extra output of the 950 in the higher modes but for some reason low is less powerful than it is on the 800 and a little bit below my comfort threshold for the amount of light I need so the ability to use low on the 800 extends the range for me over the 950.

It's hard to find anything to complain about with the Sigma Buster 700 and if its beam were as wide as the Cygolite's it would be my favorite. It's still the best for the helmet for me so as I recover and graduate back to more off road no doubt it will see more usage. So as I said, no problems, no complaints, great little light!

The Blackburn has had a bit of good and bad as of late. The good is I was testing both 1100's side by side for runtimes vs. output in the high mode and noticed the newer replacement unit had about a 100 lumen advantage over the original for the first 75% of that mode + a bit smoother transition down as power degraded with diminished batter capacity. Both lights still overheat quickly using the highest Blitz mode but Blackburns replacement unit at least is usable in all the lower ones. Heat seems to be the downfall to the 1100 but I have some ideas I can try and hope to get the Blitz mode controlled enough to get some use out of it. So hope is the good news, the bad is the rubber strap mount broke. Nothing more to say about this other than it was a PITA to use anyway!.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> The Blackburn has had a bit of good and bad as of late. The good is I was testing both 1100's side by side for runtimes vs. output in the high mode and noticed the newer replacement unit had about a 100 lumen advantage over the original for the first 75% of that mode + a bit smoother transition down as power degraded with diminished batter capacity. Both lights still overheat quickly using the highest Blitz mode but Blackburns replacement unit at least is usable in all the lower ones. *Heat seems to be the downfall to the 1100 but I have some ideas I can try and hope to get the Blitz mode controlled enough to get some use out of it. *
> Mole


Well hopes dashed rather quickly on this! I mounted one of my "Vancbiker finned gopro mounts" to the Blackburn which are usually good for at least a ten degree drop in operating temp. Unfortunately what I believe is a poor thermal path didn't allow the mount to help any in this situation. Light steps down to low within a couple of minutes of turn on (at a low case temp.) and case temp. continues to rise from there if the light is turned off.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> ......Light steps down to low within a couple of minutes of turn on (at a low case temp.) and case temp. continues to rise from there if the light is turned off...


Pretty typical symptom of a design with a poor thermal path with the driver closely coupled to the emitters.

No amount of external heatsinking will help that. Any plans to disassemble and see what's up inside?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Pretty typical symptom of a design with a poor thermal path with the driver closely coupled to the emitters.
> 
> No amount of external heatsinking will help that. Any plans to disassemble and see what's up inside?


Another interesting thing I noticed flash lux readings equivalent to way over 2000 lumens at start up so lots of internal heat to deal with + by the time the light is stepping down to protect itself case temp. has only gotten to about 100F. Pretty safe bet a little thermal paste isn't going to make much of a difference so probably not going to waste any more time with this light.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New lights came in!*


















The Moon Meteor Pro looks like it's going to take a while to charge so I'll save that for later but the Ravemen LR800P is ready to go with minimal initial charging time and I want to go for at least a short ride! "Well it's small" is my first impression (full size Lumina for comparison). I used the provided strap mount tonight but I checked and it will work with the bolt on standard PR series mounts which is what I plan on using. Remote off my PR also works for this light. Read instructions and was surprised it said nothing about charge on the fly being limited to the lowest mode, "Hmmm". Plugged in my PR900 and LR worked in all the modes but want to investigate further before I say this is OK (fantastic if it is). So 17.5 miles sharing the bars with my PR900 for beam comparison. Performance of the LR800P very closely matches the PR900 (Hi mode) and best way I can think of to describe the difference in beam pattern is slightly different version of the same thing. Dual emitter PR has a little wider beam (very little) with a bit more light at the very front of the bike but new LR800P appears to have more throw. Both lights provide a nice flood pattern and side by side comparison required to tell any difference. 
Comparing flood only 400 lumen mode of the PR to the LR's mid level 450 lumen mode there's a big difference. In these settings the LR is much brighter looking than the 50 lumen difference and has a big throw advantage while only being slighty narrower and my guess posses's a fair amount more than it's claimed lumen amount (I haven't measured this light yet). Looks good so far, ramifications of charge on the fly in higher output modes is huge IMO. More to come and some Moon info too.
Mole


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## insighter (Nov 7, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> I have to admit....I am very interested in the Raveman LR800P. Since I started messing around with the Ceco 1000 I've found the beam pattern ( longer throw ) to be quite useful. On my last ride I had a novel idea that it might be interesting to use both the Ceco and Raveman CR-900 at the same time....both set on the third mode. This turned out to be a really good idea. As far as beam patterns go, they compliment each other very well. Not to mention if I find I want a little more side light I just crank the CR-900 up to it's med/high mode.
> 
> The Ceco 1000 has turned out to be a most useful lamp. I find myself using it more and more. It does have one major fault though. The U.I. scrolls from lower to high. Personally I like a "road lamp" to scroll from High to low. My reasoning behind this is because if you are using a lamp on the road and you are in a fairly bright mode, you want the option to be able to quickly dim the lamp. Can't do this with the Ceco. If you are using the brighter mid/high mode and want to dim the lamp, you have to go through the brightest mode first and then the flashing mode to get to the lower steady modes. Do not know what they were thinking when they programmed the U. I. this way. Now what I _can do_ is turn the Ceco off if I don't want to blind anyone. As long as the CR-900 is on a lower mode I really don't have to do anything else. Right now this is working for me but man, my handlebars are really starting to get crowded.
> 
> Anyway...I'm now thinking that it might be interesting to do the same thing but with one of the LR-800P's. ( with the optional remote ) Wish I knew how much they are asking for one of these. I don't see them being sold on any website yet.. _( * The search for the perfect beam pattern continues... )_


I just got the ceco and am impressed, tho I'd love to diffuse it a bit. Any way to do this? Thanks!

Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1278801
> 
> 
> View attachment 1278803
> ...


I did get a chance to make some quick measurements on both these lights this morning. For those interested estimated lumen values for the modes on the LR800 are hi/med/low, 870/519/264. Seems pretty representative of what I saw last night, initial output good and we'll see how it fares by the end of the modes runtime. Very happy with the med. mode and hope it doesn't degrade much. Looking for a power bank it looks like I can add another 5000 mAh for around $10 which should give me almost 4 hrs. at the highest setting. Keeping my fingers crossed that possibility of charging on the fly will work in the higher modes. Will make a nice setup if everything works out.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*More LR800P*



Took the Ravemen out with the Cygolite Metro 800+ to see how it compares to one of my favorites in the under 1000 lumen self-contained category. Like the previous night both lights were very evenly matched in output but beam pattern of the Cygolite was definitely more focused (throwy) and narrower (given the even output) than the LR was to its PR900 relative. Did get about a mile of mild dirt trail in and my impression is that the LR will make an excellent bar flood for mtn. biking and for off-road I'd prefer the LR's wider beam but for faster work like on a road bike the Cygolite would be my choice between these two. I also used the bolt on bar mount from my PR900 with the LR last night. I don't care for strap mounts and even though it worked fine I preferred the more solid mounting of the PR's mount. I'm adding a link to Merlin Cycles for the mount since it's $7 (they'll probably add some shipping if that's all you order) at Merlin and $27 on Amazon (???). I ordered a small round power bank to suppliment the battery on this light and the new Outbound Hangover when they release it. Unfortunately this light definitely needs some more range for my riding.
Mole























https://www.merlincycles.com/ravemen-handlebar-bracket-113238.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Looking for a power bank it looks like I can add another 5000 mAh for around $10 which should give me almost 4 hrs. at the highest setting. Keeping my fingers crossed that possibility of charging on the fly will work in the higher modes. Will make a nice setup if everything works out.
> Mole


Excellent news on "charge on the fly" in the higher modes. Send a email to Ravemen inquiring about it and here's the reply.



> Feel free to charge the light as it's one of its key features and there won't be any problem to do that while it's being used. Charge the light when it's at highest mode will only extend the run time of this mode without damaging the light.
> 
> Does it not charge at all in the higher modes or is it not capable of charging enough to run the light but still charges as much as it can?
> 
> When it's at highest mode, it's not capable of charging the light fully but still charges.


Can't ask for more than that!!! There's one "Cat" that I know that will be excited about this
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> When it's at highest mode, it's not capable of charging the light fully but still charges.


Well it took a couple of tries but I finally got it to charge on the fly. So far all my testing has been done in the hi mode with the first try being a total failure and the light shutting down at a very accurate to Ravemens claims 1:14 (sht). Next try I used the quick charge cable that came with the light and noticed when I plugged it in the lights mode button flashed red (like it should when charging). Light was almost fully charged so the flashing red turned to green within a few seconds so I figured good to go (wrong). After about 40 min. running in high I noticed the output degrading slightly like it would if running on internal battery only so hit the function button on the powerbank which showed full charge but also started up the flashing red on the mode button of the light. Looks like the trick is to make sure the lights mode button is flashing red (charging) cause it ran fine from that point and output over the claimed lumen amount till I finally shut it off after 2.5 hrs. running in high! So it looks like with a properly trained operator it will at least come pretty close to being able to keep up with the hi modes current demands. Output vs. runtime chart is of internal battery only.
Mole

Med/hi = Red/Blk








LR800P runtimes are fairly short but output is impressive for its ratings. Strong 450 lumen rated med. mode (530 - 600 lumens) is much brighter than the 400 lumen rated cutoff beam on my PR900 and much more useful!


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## Cannondale Dundee (Sep 11, 2019)

Hello Mr Mole and others. Cannondale Dundee here making my first post. I appreciate all the info I have gathered from these forums over the last few years, you guys have been a great blessing, again Thanks. I am using a Zebralight H600w MkIV XHP neutral white on my helmet for a while. It is 4500k and I’m wanting to add a light to my bars, preferably the same color light and I like self contained 18650 units. I’m looking at several options. Zebralight has the same light in Flood or Floody which I’ve read to get the Floody version before. I also emailed Zebralight and they responded with a recommendation to get a Floody Flashlight specifically the SC600Fd with the XHP50 / 5000k or the SC700Fd with the XHP70.2 / 5000k and the 21700 battery which I was hoping to avoid. Both of these are high CRI and run times are unknown as far as I know. I do love my Zebralight and would like to go that direction but another option I have seriously considered is adding the Outbound Lighting Trail edition to my current headlamp. In an email from OBL they stated their light to be around the 4500k mark. Thanks in advance


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cannondale Dundee said:


> Hello Mr Mole and others. Cannondale Dundee here making my first post. I appreciate all the info I have gathered from these forums over the last few years, you guys have been a great blessing, again Thanks. I am using a Zebralight H600w MkIV XHP neutral white on my helmet for a while. It is 4500k and I'm wanting to add a light to my bars, preferably the same color light and I like self contained 18650 units. I'm looking at several options. Zebralight has the same light in Flood or Floody which I've read to get the Floody version before. I also emailed Zebralight and they responded with a recommendation to get a Floody Flashlight specifically the SC600Fd with the XHP50 / 5000k or the SC700Fd with the XHP70.2 / 5000k and the 21700 battery which I was hoping to avoid. Both of these are high CRI and run times are unknown as far as I know. I do love my Zebralight and would like to go that direction but another option I have seriously considered is adding the Outbound Lighting Trail edition to my current headlamp. In an email from OBL they stated their light to be around the 4500k mark. Thanks in advance


Since you stated you want a self-contained lamp that uses neutral white emitter(s), you might want to check out what Fenix has to offer. You also stated you wanted something with a wide beam. Since I also own a Zebralight with a NW XHP type emitter, if I was wanting something for MTB that was designed for the bars, rather than buy another Zebralight I think I'd go with the Fenix BC30 which is a dual emitter lamp. With two emitters you should have no problem getting a wide beam pattern with the added plus of replaceable ( on the fly ) 18650 batteries. Run times and mode output settings look very nice with the BC30. Batteries not included but if you have some of the newer Panasonic or LG cells you will get excellent run times.

On the other hand if you want something smaller you have other Fenix choices that look pretty decent. ( Note; all Fenix lamps use NW emitters ). You might like the new BC35R with built in 5200mAh battery. Looks to have a fairly wide beam pattern and has some decent run times listed as well as a digital read out so you don't get left in the dark ( not to mention a two button remote ). Check the Fenix website yourself and decide what you think might serve your best needs. ( other single emitter Fenix lamps of interest; BC21R and BC25R ) The 21R allows for replacing the 18650 cell on the fly although the beam pattern is a bit narrow.

*@MRM*; Damn it man! How does the beam pattern of the new Raveman LR800 compare with the older Ravemans with the different type of front cut-off lens? Is is wide enough to light up a two lane road? Great news to hear that it actually will charge and run on high while being charged with an external USB bank. :thumbsup:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cannondale Dundee said:


> Hello Mr Mole and others. Cannondale Dundee here making my first post. I appreciate all the info I have gathered from these forums over the last few years, you guys have been a great blessing, again Thanks. I am using a Zebralight H600w MkIV XHP neutral white on my helmet for a while. It is 4500k and I'm wanting to add a light to my bars, preferably the same color light and I like self contained 18650 units. I'm looking at several options. Zebralight has the same light in Flood or Floody which I've read to get the Floody version before. I also emailed Zebralight and they responded with a recommendation to get a Floody Flashlight specifically the SC600Fd with the XHP50 / 5000k or the SC700Fd with the XHP70.2 / 5000k and the 21700 battery which I was hoping to avoid. Both of these are high CRI and run times are unknown as far as I know. I do love my Zebralight and would like to go that direction but another option I have seriously considered is adding the Outbound Lighting Trail edition to my current headlamp. In an email from OBL they stated their light to be around the 4500k mark. Thanks in advance


Here's a couple of pictures that include the Outbound Trail with a couple of other NW lights I have. Personally I don't see much difference in tint comparing them side by side.

Gloworm CX NWw/ww optic over Outbound trail








Ituo Wiz20 over Outbound Trail








Both these lights are considerably larger than your Zebralight but have programmable presets and changeable optics allowing beam pattern changes. Curious why you are less interested in the Zebralight 21700 equipped light? Extra mass would make it more thermally stable and you'd probably relize close to 50% extra total runtime from the larger capacity battery.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@MRM*; Damn it man! How does the beam pattern of the new Raveman LR800 compare with the older Ravemans with the different type of front cut-off lens? Is is wide enough to light up a two lane road? Great news to hear that it actually will charge and run on high while being charged with an external USB bank. :thumbsup:


Beam pattern is definitely different. Not sure I would even call it a cut-off beam, elliptical would be more accurate. Not quite as wide as the cut-off beam on my PR900 but the med. mode (450 lumen rated but actual peaked @ 600 near the end of runtime) is much brighter and noticeably more throw.

PR900 Max. setting cut-off side only (400 lumen rated) / LR800P Med. setting (450 lumen rated)














I'm curious if the "charge on the fly" feature will work similarly on your CR700 (or any other Ravemen light with that feature/do they all have it now?). I did a ride with the powerbank a couple of nights ago and it worked great. I hadn't charged the powerbank so it only had maybe 30% left but still went right to work charging with the light in the med. mode and seemed to drain itself before relying on the charge in the lights internal battery.

Bonus Pictures















I know you were interested in how the beam pattern on this light looked too. I've only ridded with it once and have kept it put away till I'm through evaluating the LR800P. Beam reminds me most of my Gemini Olympia lights. Looks like it will be a great high powered self-contained bargain.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Thanks MRM. It was hard to tell very much difference between the LR-800 and the beam pattern from the your PR-900 since the comparisons were basically inside and short ranged. However I could tell that the PR900 ( using the single cutoff optic only ) still looked to put more light down closer to the source. Judging from this I can only surmise that the LR-800 will not be as wide once giving the chance to be used on the bike. It will, as you have already said, have more distance throw. This should make it more useful if riding at speed but perhaps not as useful going around turns.

What now seems to _"make the CAt curious"_, so to speak is how the LR-800 compares to your Cygolite. Which do you think is the more useful. In keeping with that thought I can't help but also wonder how the LR-800 might compare with my Ceco 1000. The Ceco, like the LR-800 will also run and charge via USB at the same time and can run on it's highest mode while charging. Of course the drawback of using the "charge and run" feature of the LR is that you can't use the wired remote at the same time. Not a big deal but if I had one I'd use the remote feature as long as possible and only use the battery back-up when I get the low warning light.

I'm tempted to buy an LR-800 but if I do I want to see if I can find a USB power bank that only uses one 21 or 20700 cell ( and has a 2A output ). If I can find something like that I have no doubt that my credit card will crawl out of my pocket by itself and place an order for both items. :smilewinkgrin:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks MRM. It was hard to tell very much difference between the LR-800 and the beam pattern from the your PR-900 since the comparisons were basically inside and short ranged. However I could tell that the PR900 ( using the single cutoff optic only ) still looked to put more light down closer to the source. Judging from this I can only surmise that the LR-800 will not be as wide once giving the chance to be used on the bike. It will, as you have already said, have more distance throw. This should make it more useful if riding at speed but perhaps not as useful going around turns.
> :smilewinkgrin:


Your correct, the LR800P's beam is not as wide. Flood beam is the only way I'd describe the LR800P but compared to the cut-off beam only portion of my PR900 there's no question that the PR900 has the wider beam.



> What now seems to _"make the CAt curious"_, so to speak is how the LR-800 compares to your Cygolite. Which do you think is the more useful. In keeping with that thought I can't help but also wonder how the LR-800 might compare with my Ceco 1000. The Ceco, like the LR-800 will also run and charge via USB at the same time and can run on it's highest mode while charging. Of course the drawback of using the "charge and run" feature of the LR is that you can't use the wired remote at the same time. Not a big deal but if I had one I'd use the remote feature as long as possible and only use the battery back-up when I get the low warning light.


Beam differences between LR800P and Cygolites' Metro 800+ are much greater. The LR800P is still a flood and beam is much wider but throw suffers compared to the Metro 800+. I suspect your Ceco may have the most throw of the lights we've been discussing lately but most useful between the Metro 800+ and the LR800P I'd go with the Cygolite (remember I've doing mostly MUP/Canal banks lately).



> I'm tempted to buy an LR-800 but if I do I want to see if I can find a USB power bank that only uses one 21 or 20700 cell ( and has a 2A output ). If I can find something like that I have no doubt that my credit card will crawl out of my pocket by itself and place an order for both items.


For me I find the lack of throw on the CR series lights limiting but you seem fine with that so I'm not sure you won't be happiest with those lights. As far as powerbanks it will be iinteresting to see what we end up liking the best. The "Ravpower" 5000 mAh only cost me $8 and is just a round plastic tube with inlet and outlet ports on one end and a 4 light fuel gauge on the outside at one end (simple and cheap). Lots of higher capacity options to look in to!
Mole


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## Cannondale Dundee (Sep 11, 2019)

I checked out that Fenix BC 30. Couldn’t figure out the Kelvin (tint), only found a range of something like 3700-5000k. I have used the Zebra H600w with a light and Motion brand light on the bars and that’s not for me. I really don’t know how exact I would require but those two clashed too much for me. The Fenix batteries are steep$, are there other more reasonable options. I’ve got some green Zebralight batteries but they are flat top. The medium setting looks like the mode I would use due to lower runtime. Is 500lumens enough? Haven’t had any experience with that low of lumens Only other drawback would be that the weight is much more than any of the Zebra options. Speaking of which, the Zebra options include my same color and then the XHP 50, 50.2, 70.2 and also various Kelvin. Confusing stuff but I sure don’t want much clash and preferably no clash. 
Thanks to you I hear Bob Seger singing in my brain about 17hrs a day lately. At least it’s a great tune. Glad your name ain’t Kama-Kama-Chameleon !!!


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## Cannondale Dundee (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks again you guys for your replies. Made my day. m Mole, the two Zebra light flashlights I mentioned were recommended to me by the company and they are tempting but I don’t like clash and they are different Kelvin and use different bulbs than my H600w Zebra. And also I don’t have a charger for the 21700 batteries and was preferring to keep it simple with one battery type. All that said, I could definitely be swayed about any direction at this point. Small Zebra, Large Zebra, Outbound, or even Cat’s Fenix BC 30 although I was hoping for less weight than the OBL or Fenix. I like a lot of light too.


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## bremmick (May 21, 2008)

Tons of great content within this thread. Looking for a good option for both road and trail application. Needing helmet and bars. Not sure the best route to go and don't want to get too expensive into it. Was looking at the Cygolite, Ravemen and Niterider options. What would be good choices for both helmet and bars?

Thanks.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

bremmick said:


> Tons of great content within this thread. Looking for a good option for both road and trail application. Needing helmet and bars. Not sure the best route to go and don't want to get too expensive into it. Was looking at the Cygolite, Ravemen and Niterider options. What would be good choices for both helmet and bars?
> 
> Thanks.


 Picking from your Brand list for the bars I go with an 800 lumen or higher PR series light. I've been really happy with my PR 900 casue it has the longest runtimes of any of these lights (800 has smaller batteries and larger lights draw more current). Ravemen doesn't make any lights I would consider helmet capable so I go with any of the over 800 lumen Cygolite metro series lights for helmet use. You could also use the new Ravemen LR8000P on the bars but runtimes are relatively short unless you don't mind running connected to a powerbank. Those would be my preferred choices but if you decide you wnat to go with NR don't run them with another brand. My 1200 has a very cool tint that's best paired with something similar (I think I'd go with the 1000 lumen model). Even though you get the extra comfort of lighter weight I don't recommend the Micro series since their output degrades fairly rapidly.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cannondale Dundee said:


> *I checked out that Fenix BC 30. Couldn't figure out the Kelvin (tint), only found a range of something like 3700-5000k.* I have used the Zebra H600w with a light and Motion brand light on the bars and that's not for me. I really don't know how exact I would require but those two clashed too much for me. *The Fenix batteries are steep$, are there other more reasonable options.* I've got some green Zebralight batteries but they are flat top. The medium setting looks like the mode I would use due to lower runtime. *Is 500lumens enough?* Haven't had any experience with that low of lumens Only other drawback would be that the weight is much more than any of the Zebra options. Speaking of which, the Zebra options include my same color and then the XHP 50, 50.2, 70.2 and also various Kelvin. Confusing stuff but I sure don't want much clash and preferably no clash.
> Thanks to you I hear Bob Seger singing in my brain about 17hrs a day lately. At least it's a great tune. Glad your name ain't Kama-Kama-Chameleon !!!


You might call the Fenix people and ask them the exact Kelvin rating of the BC30. ( also ask them if the lamp requires protected cells ) I understand your skepticism. Some people consider 5000K to be NW, I don't.

If I understand correctly you have the same Zebralight as myself ( same 4500K tint , XHP35 emitter and periscope type body design ). That type of torch throws out a very wide beam pattern. If you use this on the helmet it won't matter what light you buy for the bars because the two beam patterns will merge and make things look different. That's why it is always suggested that the bar lamp be the wider light source and that the helmet light have a more confined forward throw. That way the helmet lamp is less likely to change appearance of the bar lamp beam pattern and tint.

The prices for the Fenix batteries were outrageous. I think the BC30 requires protected cells but I'm not sure about that. Protected cells are more costly. Your Zebralight doesn't require protected cells since the protection circuit is built into the lamp.

Best place to buy name brand protected or non-protected cells in the U.S.A. is Orbtronic Orbtronic ( like Fenix ) does not make their own batteries. They take name brand batteries, put their own protection circuit on it and this allows them to put their own label on the cell.

I think I can be pretty sure that the Fenix BC30 has some kind of low voltage warning because almost all lamps do. If it does you don't need protected cells as long as the voltage indicators work. Just switch out cells when you see the low power indication. Non-protected cells are much cheaper.

After giving this a bit more thought...forget the BC30 and consider the Fenix BC21R. This is a single NW emitter lamp that is suppose to have some more forward throw. Coupled with you ZL on the lid it should let you see better in the distance when going straight. A year or so ago I tested my Zebralight on the lid using just a NW torch on the bars. I couldn't help but notice how much better I could see once I was going straight ahead._ I had no problems with the intermixing of the beams._ Another option ( probably the best option ) is to just buy a cheap Convoy S1 or S2 torch with NW emitter and use that on the bars. You can buy those cheap from the Chinese OR buy a custom torch build , get the emitter tint / UI you want and use that on the bars. Sorry, forgot to mention that you can buy cheap torch handlebar mounts on Ebay or Amazon.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

I use an Acebeam EC65 on the bars.

I really like the beam pattern which is essentially 1 giant even beam with no pronounced hotspot. It throws better than a pure flood light though.

The 21700 battery is nice. These won't fit in my charger so I just use the lights built in USB charging.

In order to make the light match my helmet, I had Skylumen swap the LEDs for Samsung 351 which are 4000K and 95CRI.










Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Buoyant (Sep 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> The Moon Meteor Pro looks like it's going to take a while to charge so I'll save that for later ...


Hi MRMOLE (and others), how is your experience with battery drainage of the Moon Meteor Storm Pro 2019 version so far? Does the output degrades as rapidly as the Niterider lights or is it more stable? Will it keep giving the 1750 lumen for 2 hours as stated on the Moon website?

I've been browsing and reading the forum for a couple of weeks. I see you guys have a lot of experience when it comes to bike lights. I started night riding a couple of weeks ago and I only use a cheap Chinese headlight for the moment. This is clearly not enough and I need more lumen/lux to keep up my speed during single track riding. My goal is 1h30min nite riding for max. 2 times a week. 
I want to buy the Moon Meteor Storm Pro for bar mounting. This light is in my budget and it seems that is has enough lumen for single track riding. (They advice aprox. 2000 lumen for bar mount and 1000 lumen for helmet mount.) I know there are other things than lumen that determine a good bikelight.

I have read the bike light reviews and the beam comparisons at road.cc but they tested the 2016 and 2017 version of the light and not the 2019 version. I can't find a decent review of the lumen output VS. time.

Thanks for the effort, any advice is welcome.
The Ravemen and Cygolite lights also look nice but I think I prefer the Meteor Storm Pro.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Buoyant said:


> Hi MRMOLE (and others), how is your experience with battery drainage of the Moon Meteor Storm Pro 2019 version so far? Does the output degrades as rapidly as the Niterider lights or is it more stable? Will it keep giving the 1750 lumen for 2 hours as stated on the Moon website?
> 
> I've been browsing and reading the forum for a couple of weeks. I see you guys have a lot of experience when it comes to bike lights. I started night riding a couple of weeks ago and I only use a cheap Chinese headlight for the moment. This is clearly not enough and I need more lumen/lux to keep up my speed during single track riding. My goal is 1h30min nite riding for max. 2 times a week.
> I want to buy the Moon Meteor Storm Pro for bar mounting. This light is in my budget and it seems that is has enough lumen for single track riding. (They advice aprox. 2000 lumen for bar mount and 1000 lumen for helmet mount.) I know there are other things than lumen that determine a good bikelight.
> ...


Sorry I've not gotten around to doing much with this light so far. It came in with another light that I started testing first but hope to get back to the Meteor Storm Pro by the end of the up coming week. First impressions from my 1 ride with it are all positive (VLS feature works great and very easy to use) and I did get a light meter reading on the Boost mode that calculated out to just over 2000 lumen's! That's all I've got for you so far.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> .....For me I find the lack of throw on the CR series lights limiting but you seem fine with that so I'm not sure you won't be happiest with those lights. As far as powerbanks it will be iinteresting to see what we end up liking the best. *The "Ravpower" 5000 mAh only cost me $8 and is just a round plastic tube with inlet and outlet ports on one end and a 4 light fuel gauge on the outside at one end (simple and cheap). Lots of higher capacity options to look in to!*
> Mole


I just looked up the Ravpower 5000mah USB power banks. I like the type that you bought. The one I looked at though was about $16. No doubt it is using a 26650 cell or 21700. The round tube-like design looks better mounted on a bike. I'll probably buy one because although I don't need one at the moment I will at some point. The one I look at had a 2.4A output and a 2A input. Just what I've been looking for. My credit card bill is going kill me this month.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just looked up the Ravpower 5000mah USB power banks. I like the type that you bought. The one I looked at though was about $16. No doubt it is using a 26650 cell or 21700. The round tube-like design looks better mounted on a bike. I'll probably buy one because although I don't need one at the moment I will at some point. The one I look at had a 2.4A output and a 2A input. Just what I've been looking for. My credit card bill is going kill me this month.


You should hold off buying that powerbank!!! I've only got a couple of rides with it, the first one just checking it out to see how everything worked and my last ride where it drained far quicker than I expected. I'm going to try to go out for a test now and if I don't get rained out (will do it indoors if I do) and will post what happens later.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> You should hold off buying that powerbank!!! I've only got a couple of rides with it, the first one just checking it out to see how everything worked and my last ride where it drained far quicker than I expected. I'm going to try to go out for a test now and if I don't get rained out (will do it indoors if I do) and will post what happens later.
> Mole


Okay I will. $16 is pretty inexpensive though. If you can give me the link to the one you bought so I can make sure we are talking about the same PBank. I might change my mind anyway and go with one of the 2-cell Anker power banks. The Anker's are well known and should be quite reliable.

Now, with a new torch on the way I'm going to have to buy at least one 21700 cell. No problem with that but then I have to figure a way to charge it since I don't think my 4-bay cell charger will accommodate the longer cell. Orbtronic has both the cells ( 2 required for purchase ) and they have an affordable compatible Xtar charger. Still, If I buy the cells and the charger another ~ $35 on the CCard. Whoa with me...*sigh*....I just might wait till I get the torch first. The E01 comes with a 18650 to 21700 adapter and I already have some good hi-discharge Sonys. I want to play with it first and see if it's worth buying the extra stuff.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay I will. $16 is pretty inexpensive though. If you can give me the link to the one you bought so I can make sure we are talking about the same PBank. I might change my mind anyway and go with one of the 2-cell Anker power banks. The Anker's are well known and should be quite reliable.


Well I thought about it and decided far better to do the testing at home with more controlled conditions. Ride was a must do though so I just took a different bike and light and had a nice 30 mile + got caught in the rain for the last 5 miles so got to do a water test on the Cygolite Metro 950. Happy to report no issues.









Ride done and back to test mode I topped off the charge in both the light and powerbank, put a fan in fromt of the setup and clicked the light to high. I already knew runtime for that light and mode so the plan was to do a total runtime in high (Ravemen LR800P), subtract to internal batteries runtime and calculate an approx. mAh value for the powerbank. Luck was on my side as I was standing next to the light when it shut down about a hour before expected. Estimate of mAh value worked out to a little above 3000 mAh. Amazon seller had sent me an email introducing themselves and I figured I'd reply with what I'd found but in reading the whole lengthy email I came upon this clause:



> •The voltage of the battery cells is 3.7V, however, the output voltage of the power bank is 5V. You must allow wastage when the voltage increases.The average efficient of the power bank is about 85%.the item is 5000mah, so the working effect capacity of the power bank should be:
> Labeled capacity 3.7V /5V Efficient =5000*3.7/5*85% = 3145mAh
> Please understand that it is a noramal behavior for all the power banks in the market not only RAVPower. And the efficent rate is 80% however ours is higher than normal of 85%.


So everything is OK, just not as planned. Learning curve for most everything new you try as was the case here. This one's fine for now but next powerbank for this light will have more capacity.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay If you can give me the link to the one you bought so I can make sure we are talking about the same PBank.


Sorry, almost forgot.

https://www.amazon.com/External-Battery-RAVPower-Portable-Technology/dp/B07KPCKCYG


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## bremmick (May 21, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> Picking from your Brand list for the bars I go with an 800 lumen or higher PR series light. I've been really happy with my PR 900 casue it has the longest runtimes of any of these lights (800 has smaller batteries and larger lights draw more current). Ravemen doesn't make any lights I would consider helmet capable so I go with any of the over 800 lumen Cygolite metro series lights for helmet use. You could also use the new Ravemen LR8000P on the bars but runtimes are relatively short unless you don't mind running connected to a powerbank. Those would be my preferred choices but if you decide you wnat to go with NR don't run them with another brand. My 1200 has a very cool tint that's best paired with something similar (I think I'd go with the 1000 lumen model). Even though you get the extra comfort of lighter weight I don't recommend the Micro series since their output degrades fairly rapidly.
> Mole


You'd prefer the PR series light over a cygolite for the bars?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

bremmick said:


> You'd prefer the PR series light over a cygolite for the bars?


Yes only because of the nice floody beam pattern. Pretty much everything else (mounts, UI, runtimes) I like better on the Cygolite but quality of light trumps everything here.
Mole


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## Buoyant (Sep 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> Sorry I've not gotten around to doing much with this light so far. It came in with another light that I started testing first but hope to get back to the Meteor Storm Pro by the end of the up coming week. First impressions from my 1 ride with it are all positive (VLS feature works great and very easy to use) and I did get a light meter reading on the Boost mode that calculated out to just over 2000 lumen's! That's all I've got for you so far.
> Mole


No problem, thanks for the reply. I was too impatient and made the order anyway. 
I couldn't find any negative reviews that convinced me NOT to buy it. I even ordered a Moon Meteor Vortex Pro to mount on my helmet. I'll definitely have enough lumens now.


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## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

Buoyant said:


> No problem, thanks for the reply. I was too impatient and made the order anyway.
> I couldn't find any negative reviews that convinced me NOT to buy it. I even ordered a Moon Meteor Vortex Pro to mount on my helmet. I'll definitely have enough lumens now.


Great, you'll need to give us your review of the Vortex Pro after a few rides. My Storm Pro is top notch imo...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's a link to a review that road.cc did on the Vortex Pro.
Mole

https://road.cc/content/review/230517-moon-meteor-vortex-pro-front-light​


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Buoyant said:


> No problem, thanks for the reply. I was too impatient and made the order anyway.
> I couldn't find any negative reviews that convinced me NOT to buy it. I even ordered a Moon Meteor Vortex Pro to mount on my helmet. I'll definitely have enough lumens now.


I finally got some time to do a little light meter work on the Meteor Storm Pro. Unfortunately I couldn't do a full output vs. runtime test in turbo because of overheating. In 83 degree ambient temperature the fan cooled light rose to a 150 degree case temp where it stepped down. Good news is it took a full 15 min. so Turbo is still useful for short periods of time. I ended up setting the light to start about 1550 lumens (more than necessary for bar use IMO) to do my test and everything worked fine. You mentioned the NR Lumina as something to compare it to and I also included a similar setup Cateye Volt 1600. Yes the output degrades with usage but less so than the premium name brand high powered Cateye lamp. I estimate set the way my light was for the test that it would tolerate ride temperatures in the low 100's for a point of reference.
Mole









I continued to measure the light till 2:40 where it dipped below 300 lumens and I shut it down. Fatter Blue line represents the Meteor Storm Pro.


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## bremmick (May 21, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> I finally got some time to do a little light meter work on the Meteor Storm Pro. Unfortunately I couldn't do a full output vs. runtime test in turbo because of overheating. In 83 degree ambient temperature the fan cooled light rose to a 150 degree case temp where it stepped down. Good news is it took a full 15 min. so Turbo is still useful for short periods of time. I ended up setting the light to start about 1550 lumens (more than necessary for bar use IMO) to do my test and everything worked fine. You mentioned the NR Lumina a something to compare it to and I also included a similar setup Cateye Volt 1600. Yes the output degrades with usage but less so than the premium name brand high powered Cateye lamp. I estimate set the way my light was for the test that it would tolerate ride temperatures in the low 100's for s point of reference.
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1282267
> ...


Damn! That is some solid battery life. How does the beam on this compaire with Ravemen PR series? Would this work well for singletrack?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

bremmick said:


> Damn! That is some solid battery life. How does the beam on this compaire with Ravemen PR series? Would this work well for singletrack?


Meteor Storm Pro definitely has a narrower beam horizontally with noticeably more throw (and top spill). So while I'd pick the Ravemen PR series beam as the off road winner it's not that Meteor Storm Pro's beam is too narrow to get the job done in the dirt (I just like the Ravemen better).
Mole


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## Cannondale Dundee (Sep 11, 2019)

Cat-man-do said:


> You might call the Fenix people and ask them the exact Kelvin rating of the BC30. ( also ask them if the lamp requires protected cells ) I understand your skepticism. Some people consider 5000K to be NW, I don't.
> 
> If I understand correctly you have the same Zebralight as myself ( same 4500K tint , XHP35 emitter and periscope type body design ). That type of torch throws out a very wide beam pattern. If you use this on the helmet it won't matter what light you buy for the bars because the two beam patterns will merge and make things look different. That's why it is always suggested that the bar lamp be the wider light source and that the helmet light have a more confined forward throw. That way the helmet lamp is less likely to change appearance of the bar lamp beam pattern and tint.
> 
> ...


That last part about the Convoy S1 or S2 sounds great Cat Man but I sure can't figure out what to order to either match or compliment my Zebralight. I have looked at many but can't figure them out. Do you have an exact idea of what I need in that area? Also I think I'll order one of the bigger Zebralights that takes the 21700 battery to try on the bars. (Either the SC700d or the SC700Fd). May try the Convoy 1st though.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen LR500 road.cc review*


I noticed road.cc added this light to their reviews. I shared my experiences with the 800 version but here's a link for those interested in the 500.
Mole

https://road.cc/content/review/267153-ravemen-lr500s-front-light


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*More living with the Moon Meteor Storm Pro*



Night before last the Moon accompanied me on my first 40+ mile ride since my heart surgery last April. Beautiful ride with temps starting out around 90 degrees and maybe dipping into the high 70's by the time I got home around midnight. I've been running mostly single cell self-contained lights this yr (when I've been able to ride) so was a nice change taking a light with more battery capacity where very comfortable amounts of light were available without having to worry about how much juice was left in the tank. Right at about 4 hrs. with the lights running in the lowest mode which I have set to about 700 lumens and 3 of the nine matrix fuel gauge lights still showing when I got home. Haven't tried the remote yet but so far seems like a lot of light for the $79 Merlin is currently charging (shipped) to the US!
Mole

https://www.merlincycles.com/moon-meteor-storm-pro-rechargeable-front-bike-light-2019-95012.html


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## randan (May 18, 2005)

road.cc did ra review about the Ravemen PR1600 and they really like it:
https://road.cc/content/review/267368-ravemen-pr1600-front-light

The only drawback for me is that the light can't be mounted upside down under your garmin with a gopro mount.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Hey all, I'm looking to replace a Gloworm x2 I use on the bars (few years older 1500 lumen model, w/NW optics upgraded) with a self-contained unit. Fan of Gloworm so looking at the CX. Anybody know how the beam patterns might compare? Or have another self-contained suggestion?

Thanks!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

bad andy said:


> Hey all, I'm looking to replace a Gloworm x2 I use on the bars (few years older 1500 lumen model, w/NW optics upgraded) with a self-contained unit. Fan of Gloworm so looking at the CX. Anybody know how the beam patterns might compare? Or have another self-contained suggestion?
> 
> Thanks!


What optics are you running in your current X2 (spot/flood/wide angle)? Are you happy with the width and throw of the beam pattern on your X2 or interested in altering the beam in some fashion (please specify)? Do your know if your X2 is a short or long optic version? I own a couple of older X2's and the latest CX version (1200) but need to know where your starting from.
Mole


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I am running the X2 1500 lumen (v3.1 I think?) version with double spot optics. At the time it was recommended to go spot/spot as it didn't have a a huge change in width, but throw was better. I had these upgraded at some point to the NW leds as well. I run 2 of these, bar and helmet - but looking to replace the bar. These are both a few years old so curious if advances in both beam pattern and emitters would offer an equivalent or better result from a self-contained unit. I'm intrigued to simplify the setup on the bars but don't want to step down from the light output I have now. Gloworm is my first interest, but open to looking at others too. 

Thanks!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

bad andy said:


> I'm intrigued to simplify the setup on the bars but don't want to step down from the light output I have now.
> 
> Thanks!


I think that statement says it all. Self-contained lights get better all the time but there are still compromises compared to what you are currently running.
Without spending $300 - $500 dollars I can't think of anything self-contained I would choose over your X2 setup. I am getting a new lighthead (Gemini Duo) that's claimed to produce 2200 lumens and only draw similar current to your 1500 lumen Gloworm so when that emitter tech. (if claims are true) is passed on to self-contained this situation my change. Till then I'd stick with what you've got.
Mole


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

NO experience with Gloworm X2 but recently purchased the gloworm CX. Quick review below but my comparison is to Cygolite TridenX 1300

The good: Lots of attachment methods, comes with everything you need even helmet mount in small resubale box. Seems very well made and heavy duty, bright and wide enough beam pattern when mounted on helmet riding single track and reasonable speeds in tight twisty stuff it did the job.

THe need to know: Was heavy on the helmet I felt it there every rooty rocky section more so than a helmet mounted light with external battery.

Bottom line: I will keep using it but probably for that occasional gravel night ride probably going to keep going back to my TrindenX for most single track rides


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

HEMIjer said:


> NO experience with Gloworm X2 but recently purchased the gloworm CX. Quick review below but my comparison is to Cygolite TridenX 1300
> 
> The good: Lots of attachment methods, comes with everything you need even helmet mount in small resubale box. Seems very well made and heavy duty, bright and wide enough beam pattern when mounted on helmet riding single track and reasonable speeds in tight twisty stuff it did the job.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, the CX (or any dual cell/dual emitter self-contained light) is too big and heavy for comfortable helmet use. Gloworm Alpha is the same basic light as the CX but in lighthead + battery configuration and better suited for helmet use. 
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Night before last the Moon accompanied me on my first 40+ mile ride since my heart surgery last April. Beautiful ride with temps starting out around 90 degrees and maybe dipping into the high 70's by the time I got home around midnight. I've been running mostly single cell self-contained lights this yr (when I've been able to ride) so was a nice change taking a light with more battery capacity where very comfortable amounts of light were available without having to worry about how much juice was left in the tank. Right at about 4 hrs. with the lights running in the lowest mode which I have set to about 700 lumens and 3 of the nine matrix fuel gauge lights still showing when I got home. Haven't tried the remote yet but so far seems like a lot of light for the $79 Merlin is currently charging (shipped) to the US!
> Mole
> 
> https://www.merlincycles.com/moon-meteor-storm-pro-rechargeable-front-bike-light-2019-95012.html
> ...











OK, the remote works great. Symbols on the two buttons correspond with the two mode buttons on the lighthead. Left one controls which emitters operate + the light intensity adjustment for each mode and the right one is the mode selector. I had read in another review that it was difficult to tighten the velcro strap adequately to make the remote stable on the bars but I had no such problem. Something has changed though that unfortunately makes this light less of a bargain. The $79 I paid for this light a couple of months ago is now $108.49 (@ Merlin) which is still a fair price for a 2000 lumen light with a wired remote, adjustable presets, OLED fuel gauge, quality batteries and excellent runtimes, just not the bargain it was.:cryin:
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Night before last the Moon accompanied me on my first 40+ mile ride since my heart surgery last April. Beautiful ride with temps starting out around 90 degrees and maybe dipping into the high 70's by the time I got home around midnight. I've been running mostly single cell self-contained lights this yr (when I've been able to ride) so was a nice change taking a light with more battery capacity where very comfortable amounts of light were available without having to worry about how much juice was left in the tank. Right at about 4 hrs. with the lights running in the lowest mode which I have set to about 700 lumens and 3 of the nine matrix fuel gauge lights still showing when I got home. Haven't tried the remote yet but so far seems like a lot of light for the $79 Merlin is currently charging (shipped) to the US!
> Mole
> 
> https://www.merlincycles.com/moon-meteor-storm-pro-rechargeable-front-bike-light-2019-95012.html
> ...


Real shame the beam pattern on these is as narrow as you say. Just to confirm; Are the batteries serviceable? Looks like that is the case in the product description.

About the price; Looks like there is a " Meteor Storm" and a "Meteor Storm Pro" which is a little brighter and a bit more expensive. The "Meteor Storm" is selling at the price that you paid ( From the link I found on Google ) Could of been Merlin screwed up the price listing on the website and listed the "Pro Version" at the price of the Meteor Storm. If that was the case you might have just got lucky and they just now figured out they screwed up. :ihih:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Real shame the beam pattern on these is as narrow as you say. Just to confirm; Are the batteries serviceable? Looks like that is the case in the product description.
> 
> About the price; Looks like there is a " Meteor Storm" and a "Meteor Storm Pro" which is a little brighter and a bit more expensive. The "Meteor Storm" is selling at the price that you paid ( From the link I found on Google ) Could of been Merlin screwed up the price listing on the website and listed the "Pro Version" at the price of the Meteor Storm. If that was the case you might have just got lucky and they just now figured out they screwed up. :ihih:


Beam is narrower than I prefer but still much wider than something like your Ceco but not as wide as any of my Ravemen lights (PR900, LR800). Nice flowy trails are fine but tightening up the turns a bit and you'll wish for something with a wider beam. Too bad the optics aren't changeable.

Don't know what caused the price change but it was $79 for the several months I'd been looking at the Pro model. Yes, batteries are field changeable. I did a quick spec. check and while the reduced output (300 lumen) would not bother me in any way I would miss the 3350 cells of the Pro vs. 2600 cells of the regular Meteor Storm. No other differences that I am aware of.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Sigma Sports still has the Moon Meteor Storm Pro for $77 for those who are interested.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Magicshine Allty 1000, glad to see another 21700 single cell equipped self-contained light. It also uses a XP-L emitter which is more efficient and conbined with the larger capacity battery (4000mAh) result in a claimed 1.8 hrs. @ 1000 lm (Hi), 4 hrs. @ 500 lm (med.), 12.5 hrs. @ 250 lm (low) which is pretty good IMO if the claims are true. Garmin style mount also looks interesting. A rebranded version of the light got a very positive review from road.cc which I'll include a link to.
Mole

https://road.cc/content/review/267867-etc-kochab-1000-lumen-front-light

https://www.magicshine.com/magicshineallty1000-p00082p1.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Excellent PinkBike article*



Worthwhile taking the time to look at this article. Short description/review and trail beam shots of several high powered self-contained lights.
Mole

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/10-best-handlebar-mounted-bike-lights-ridden-rated.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite Ranger 1400?*










Curious if anyone knows anything about this light? Searching around I found nothing other than whats on this sales site. Other than the higher output the interesting thing I saw was it has longer claimed runtime (high mode) and weighs about 30 grams more than the Metro 1100 so possible 21700 upgrade?
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sofirn SD05*



After hearing how great this light is over and over again from the flashlight people I decided to try one myself. I usually don't even look at flashlights because of the normal limitations that come with a light not designed specifically for bicycles buuuut this is a all in one light that can be used for cycling so it fits this thread. So here's the good and bad I noticed after 2 rides.

*GOOD:* New tech. (XHP 50.2 emitter and 21700 battery) that has more output and longer runtimes. Being a flashlight means batteries are easily field changeable and you can use either the 21700 that came with my light or more common 18650 with the included 18650 tube spacer. 2500+ lumen high mode is cool even though the light has a max. 3 min. usage timer for this mode. 1000 lumen regulated med. mode netting 2.5 hrs of runtime (with included 4000 mAh battery) is excellent. Big surprise for me was how usable the 300 lumen (claimed) low mode was. Price is also quite low for what you get. I paid a little over $50 for my light kit and Gopro mount (amazon) but if you don't mind waiting a bit longer for delivery you should be able to get the kit and bar specific mount shipped from China for $35 - $40. Also :thumbsup: to the magnetic ring mode control that I feel works better than most mode buttons I've used. I believe output stability will be a big plus too but have yet to test that. So quite a bit to like about the SD05!.

*NOT SO GOOD:* Weight is quite a bit higher (60-80) grams than your typical sub 1000 lumen bike light and too heavy to be considered for helmet use IMO. Too bad since the SD05's max lux readings ended up being considerably higher than my SP40 and a little higher than any of my sub 1000 lumen self-contained lights (Cygolite 800/950, Sigma Buster 700, Ravemen LR800P). Good helmet light beam unfortunately didn't work so well on the bars though. Beam had a fairly wide low intensity spill beam dominated by a narrow hot spot and zero light around the front tire. Obstacle recognition turning into a corner was poor. I think I found a solution (see below pictures) for the poor bar beam performance though using an elliptical lens cover. I tried it on tonight's 45 mi. ride and it did lose some throw but had a much wider usable beam and the hot spot was no longer noticeable.
Mole















No lens cover.........................................................................................Elliptical lens cover


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Thanks for this unbiased review. The combination with a wide lens seems to be be a good solution to use a flashlight on the bars occasionally...


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

where did you get that elliptical lens cover? that wide flood looks great for the bars


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

slcpunk said:


> where did you get that elliptical lens cover? that wide flood looks great for the bars


https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/lenses-optics-reflectors/products/wide-angle-lens

It's one that's made to fit 808's and clones. It's actually too big in diameter and I just have it held in place with a section of 1.5" tube. PITA to put on but edges of lens cover glow annoyingly if you don't cover them'
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I got a couple more testing rides in with the SD05, the first included some pretty rough surfaced trails on a rigid 29er. Adding a second silicon band seemed to secure the light to the Gopro mount a bit tighter and I wanted to do a good test to see if I could get any unwanted movement + test how the light worked on trails with the elliptical lens cover. Run in the med. mode netted acceptable illumination performance and no detectable movement. The second test ride was canal banks and some mild relatively featureless dirt trails and I took a Ravemen PR900 along to compare. I noticed the addition of the elliptical lens cover dimmed the output levels of the SD05 a bit (which was expected) and while the med. mode was still fine with the lens cover I would prefer some extra output in the low mode (not so good). Comparing the SD05 to the PR900 also proved to be a let down for the Sofirn light. Beam pattern is improved with the use of the elliptical lens cover but still not as good (IMO) as the dual beam PR900 or the LR800, both also having more output intensity and just appearing to be more powerful lights. So I probably wouldn't recommend the SD05 for most people looking for a 800-1000 lumen self-contained bike light but if your a bikepacker who can make use of the SD05 as a flashlight in camp and its longer runtimes + easily changeable batteries are a big benefit this might still be the best light for you.
Mole

***Read post 132 for more favorable impression of use with elliptical lens cover


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I know I should post this it the flash light holder/mount thread...but...my cob/hack solution for helmet and bars. Some day I'll upgrade to something better than some torches ... but ... till then!

I did buy an Amazon mount, but one crash in the cold and it snapped ... I think my homemade solution is more robust in that regard, giving up quick-release functionality.

I had voile straps and foam. Stays where you put it.

The straps and foam block:








Bit of foam ( a few pieces glued together to get the right shape ):








Mounted ( key is criss-crossing the two straps ):








Helmet:


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## 232vzlano (Jun 29, 2006)

Mr mole what would be yoir choice for self cotained helmet trail light? I dont ride more than 2 hours at nite. Lso I had the sigma sport 700 in the cart but its now unavailable. Thbaks for this post its great info


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

232vzlano said:


> Mr mole what would be yoir choice for self cotained helmet trail light? I dont ride more than 2 hours at nite. Lso I had the sigma sport 700 in the cart but its now unavailable. Thbaks for this post its great info


What are you using as a bar light and how soon do you need it? There are several new lights coming out soon and I need to check with the Sigma rep. to find out what's going on with the Buster 700.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen CR 700 & 900*



I don't have access to these lights so unfortunately I can't answer any questions about them but ran across this nice video review that I thought was worth including here. There are a couple of threads that feature these lights on this forum so you may want refer to them for specific questions.
Mole

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yset_ffbndl_syc_hp&p=Ravemen+Bicycle+Lights#id=4&vid=a50fb7cfea6018ee783dcad637eab31a&action=view

https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-nigh...r-900-google-page-ranking-1200-a-1056844.html

https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-nigh...raveman-cr-700-cat-review-2019-a-1099246.html


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## 232vzlano (Jun 29, 2006)

First gen magicshine for the handlebar. Do you recommend wait to see whats new? Also Are flashlights any good for helmet use? I dont mind using those too. Thnks


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

First gen MagicShine had a very cool white emitter tint. You might find that undesirable if paired with a neutral or warm white helmet lamp. Some people do not have any problem with mixing light colors while others do.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

232vzlano said:


> First gen magicshine for the handlebar. Do you recommend wait to see whats new? Also Are flashlights any good for helmet use? I dont mind using those too. Thnks


I just sent an email off to the Sigma Rep. inquiring about the status of the Sigma Buster 700 and possible current retail outlets. Probably should at least wait to hear what he has to say.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sofirn SD05 update*



After my last post on the Sofirn SD05 I had the light sitting next to a new elliptical lens cover and noticed the one I had borrowed from another light to use in the SD05 was pretty hazy and yellow looking next to the new one (testing netted a 15% output difference). Significant difference from this is it brightened the low mode enough to make it usable for me again. Since I tend to do longer rides frequently having the lower setting available extends the runtime and makes the light a usable option for my longer rides and leaves me with a bit better feeling about the light overall.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> 232vzlano said:
> 
> 
> > Mr mole what would be yoir choice for self cotained helmet trail light? I dont ride more than 2 hours at nite. Lso I had the sigma sport 700 in the cart but its now unavailable. Thbaks for this post its great info
> ...


Sigma USA unfortunately is no more. From what I gathered all marketing and distribution is now done directly from Germany. I contacted their customer service about current online retailers for the Buster 700 but was only provided with examples from Germany all of which had shipping charges of $20+ dollars reducing the value of the light.

So for what's currently available I think I would pick one of the Cygolite Metro's (800/950/1100). Not much difference in price between these three. The 800 has the most consistent output and may actually be the strongest at the very end of their runtimes. 950/1100 have more power/throw for around the first hour. Runtimes in boost/hi will be 60-75/90 min. for these lights (and all other similar lights, Buster 700 included). Personally I would not choose self-contained for a 2 hr. ride.

Self-contained bike light that would best suite your needs is the very soon to be released Outbound Hangover which I would recommend waiting for unless the price is too steep. Spec./performance claims are unconfirmed but that shouldn't take too long to figure out.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New Sofirn setup*



This is the new setup I tried tonight. Light performance was very good, mounting is still going to take some more experimentation.















Sofirn SD05: I had tried this light helmet mounted with a Gopro mount but it proved to heavy for me to use comfortably. The Gopro mount positioned the light pretty high off the top of the helmet so I followed the recommendations and comments from some other members and eliminated the mount and attached the light directly to the helmet as pictured. This particular light uses a magnetic collar/ring that rotates to adjust the modes that needs clearance to work properly which is why I have the foam between the helmet and light. I still want to try some other materials to elevate the light because this was more of a PITA to set up than I would want to deal with on a regular basis. The reward for my efforts was lowering the light made the setup feel much lighter (27mi. tonight with no discomfort) so potential is there, I just need to smooth out the rough edges.

Sofirn SP40: Size and layout of this light may favor helmet mounting but the wider beam and lack luster throw better suite bar use which I was happy with tonight. Initially the beam was great and the high modes around 500 lumen output was more than adequate but output degrades fairly rapidly so after about 15 mi. I switched it to Turbo for the rest of the ride. Works fine for shorter rides or as a backup I guess.
Mole


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Mole, I improved my foam install slightly by threading the strap through some slits in the foam. I could put the foam on the helmet w/out the torch, and then mount it when I needed it. That made it a lot less fiddly out on the trail. Also found some higher density foam ( think I got it at the craft store in an 8x11 sheet ) that is better than the white packing foam.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

slcpunk said:


> Mole, I improved my foam install slightly by threading the strap through some slits in the foam. I could put the foam on the helmet w/out the torch, and then mount it when I needed it. That made it a lot less fiddly out on the trail. Also found some higher density foam ( think I got it at the craft store in an 8x11 sheet ) that is better than the white packing foam.
> 
> View attachment 1294873


Thanks for the ideas to try. Looking at my setup it looks like the tape I used to cover the vent hole that's under the front of the foam gradually stretched some during the ride and allowed the mode adjustment ring to contact the helmet towards the end of the ride. Would still like to try a different material for the spacer/pad. I'm thinking a piece of old tire might work well.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite Ranger 1400*



My first Black Friday deal arrived in the mail today. Haven't had much time to play with it tonight but did get a couple of pictures and quickly did some lux-meter readings to get an idea what kind of output to expect from the different presets. So my rounded off initial ratings for low/med./hi/turbo would be 300/800/1200/1500. A little higher initial readings than I got from the Ion 1300 and Lumina 1200 but both of those lights dropped down to about 1100 lumens (highest mode) very quickly so will be interesting to see how the Ranger fares with more complete testing. Along with the claimed additional 35 grams of weight the light is physically larger than the 800/950 Metro's that I have so safe to assume it got a larger battery. If claimed runtimes for the modes are accurate this will end up being the most useful single cell light i've tried for longer rides.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

As you can see I got the Boost mode measured last night. It's not as stable as the Metro 800 but better than any other lights boost mode that I've checked. Nice that I had to nitpick to point out any negatives. Positives are the Ranger ran 16 min. longer than what's claimed and had excellent output finishing up very strong still making over 1100 lumens @ 91 min. where I shut the light down. Hope the rest of the modes do this well!
Mole

Red = Ranger 1400 output (click on image to expand)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite Ranger 1400 Hi mode and first ride*



Well I got another mode measured (see chart) and the first ride with the light. Was surprised how comfortable I was using the boost mode but considering how wide the beam is and the fact that its been raining in my area and all the dirt and asphalt is darker than normal I shouldn't be. I'm sure when things dry u; a bit boost will be more overkill like I expected it to be. Anyway for the 34 mi. ride I used med. (mostly), hi, and boost with no low battery warning so not too bad for a single cell light. Runtime measurements for boost and hi have returned usable bonus minutes over what's claimed so I expect med. to end up lasting 3:30 or so @ 6 to 8 hundred lumens. When I started the hi mode test I checked the max. lux (throw measurement) and it was no more than the Metro 800 produced from only about 2/3rds of the Rangers total lumens. Optics look the same so I'm thinking a different emitter is used that delivers a wider but less intense beam for any given output level. Definitely plan on doing the med. mode when I get an adequate block of time and getting some more saddle time with the light too but that will be weather permitting for a while.
Mole

Black = boost.......Red = hi (click image to expand)


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

i can recommend this mounts.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32764342087.html








and adding 3 recommendations for some of the best self-contained trals bike lights on the market.

Sofirn SD05 what see in this post:

-no USB port.

+high effizenz driver build in
+2 practically light modes easy to switch.
+changable batterys, 18650 or 21700 can be used
+ good light profile for bikeing.

in middle mode it delivers with an 5000mah battery ~1000 lumen for 3 Hours.
for 20€ and great product.
in my picture the black one.

Asrtrolux EC01:
same size like the SD05

no - points.:eekster:

+changeable batterys, 18650 and 21700 fit, same like SD05.

+ fully personal programmable driver"*Anduril software base*", with that you can light modes, brightness and anythink other on your own wishes.
+temp regulation that you can to program how you what it.
+ up to 4000 Lumen max.

a free programable light gives infinity option but some examples.
set to 1000 lumen you get with it a little bit over 2 Hours of runtime.
at 2000 Lumen set you get little bit over 1 Hour of runtime
at 3000 Lumen you will have below 1 Hour of runtime.

+ USB-C charge port+ good light profile for biking.

*for 20€ the best value trail bike light on the market!!!!!!!*
here a video review+ you see little bit funny thinks what anduril is possible to do.

the EC01 and SD05 have near the same beam, coz he not make a video.

and the last one MF01 mini, *what is my main Trail bike light*.

no - points

+changeable Batterys, 18650, 21700 and 26650 will fit.
+ different LED type"SST-20 and XP-L HI" and light color temperatur"4000-6000k" option an high CRI option to.
+ same like the EC01"*Anduril*"= fully free programm the light like you like it so no difference to the EC01.
+ up to over 6000 Lumen output.
+epic Trail beam profile.
+ USB-C charge port.

for 45$ with coupon code same like the the EC01 and epic buy.
here a video from it.

add some infos.
the EC01 and mf01 mini are concepted lights from light freaks and pros from the US BLF forum and the german TLF forum.
the software"Anduril" and drivers and many other details are make from companys with this members together to bring out light on the market that really people want with allot of knowledge in it.

*to anyone*!!
dont waste moneys for commercial overpriced technically lowest grade lights.

and yes i love self-contained lights on the bike and hate wires and bulky battery packs.
but cheap made junk lights i hate to and will never put that anymore on my bike.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lostplaces said:


> i can recommend this mounts.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32764342087.html
> View attachment 1295623


Nice post! Question, mount looks nice and solid but I didn't see any option for larger bar diameters past 30mm which is too small for the most common bar sizes (31.8, 35mm). That style battery tube clamp with a Gopro adapter would work great with some existing bar mounts available!



> the EC01 and SD05 have near the same beam,


I loved the beam pattern of my SD05 for the helmet (still working on a comfortable way to mount it though) but it didn't work for me on the bars. I tried this (below photo) lens cover and it helped a lot but am wondering if there are other options for changing the beam pattern that you know of? Also though unrelated, do you know what the tint K value is for the Sofirn SD05?









The two lower preset modes on my SD05 work OK but are not ideal for me. I think the lights with programmable or ramping modes with be a better application for cycling. I ordered a Sofirn SP33V3.0 yesterday so will get a chance to test out its ramping mode and will allow met to play with the output levels to find the stable thermal limits of the XHP50.2 emitter. I live in a very warm climate (100°F ride temps. common for summer night rides) so that ramping program will come in handy.
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> Nice post! Question, mount looks nice and solid but I didn't see any option for larger bar diameters past 30mm which is too small for the most common bar sizes (31.8, 35mm).


i have order different ring sizes.

for 1x 18650 battery lights 25mm rings.
for 1x 21700 battery lights 30mm rings.
for 1x26650 battery based lights 34mm rings.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824584955.html

i have not link the cheapest one, there a cheaper rings to find.

only need counterparts ring to ring on one side the rail, like for example this.

2 rings together= high quality bike mount.:thumbsup:

rubber band holders good for 100-150 gramm lights if a light weights more fixed mounts the better option.

the rings have no limit what they can hold so any weight is nothing for them.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I recently made some GoPro adapters for use with rifle scope rings to hold a light.









Gives a person countless options for mounting to the bike. PM for details.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Cygolite Ranger 1400 Update*



Unfortunately tonight's ride was cut short as the sprinkles started earlier than I expected but still got 15 mi. in of the planned 29. Not enough rain to test its waterproof abilities but just enough to want to cut the ride short. Street and MUP bar use continues to be a positive experience with the Ranger. The most often used med. mode provides a nice wide and bright beam and testing shows a 3:19 range in this mode. Looking forward to trying the Ranger on the trail but that will have to wait for a future post. I did finish the output testing for the med. mode which is posted below. Word of warning!: if it looks like the modes end abruptly it's because they do. Mode button will flash a few minutes before your out of light but when the light itself starts to flash it's time to *stop* and take whatever backup measures you have because the light just shuts down after about 30 sec. of flashing. Characteristic that's good to know in advance.
Mole

Black=Boost.....Red=High.....Green=Med......(click on image to expand)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sofirn SD05 update*



Rain here the last couple of days so finally got to do some light-meter testing (runtime) on the SD05. Using the Sofirn 4000 mAh battery in the most used med. mode it ran 149 min. @ just under 1000 lumens before cutting output back to about 200 lumens where I stopped testing. No surprises, almost exactly matched Sofirn's claims. I also tested the 3 min. timer for the 2500 lumen high mode which actually did surprise me. I expected the light to have a fairly stable output for the 3 min. and then jump down to the 1000 lumen med. mode. Instead it was a rapid but gradual decrease in output dumping about 500 lumens in the first min. and a steady decline after that leveling out just under 1000 lumens at about 4 min. Had hoped the SD05 would maintain close to it's max. output for the first 3 min. but unfortunately that was not the case, oh well. On the positive side the light case temperature never evn got close to 100°F for the full med. mode test or even the timed hi mode test. 
Mole


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> Sigma USA unfortunately is no more. From what I gathered all marketing and distribution is now done directly from Germany. I contacted their customer service about current online retailers for the Buster 700 but was only provided with examples from Germany all of which had shipping charges of $20+ dollars reducing the value of the light.


Found this https://www.bike24.com/p2246470.html?action=basketquickdelete&delete_key=246470_0

but shipping is about $20 (to the US) as pointed out above.

Similar situation. Looking for a good helmet light. Have the outbound trail for my bar light and have been just using that, but am ready for a decent helmet light.....down to Sigma buster 700, Cygolite Metro 800, and something similar if anyone has suggestions?

Bought a Hangover for my son, he or I have not used it yet.


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## jrhilado (Sep 8, 2011)

Was able to get the Sigma buster 700 for 34 Euro at hibike.com, another German site. Still expecting delivery though.


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

Let me know how you like. Is this a helmet mount? What type of terrain do you typically ride? I need something to just help with my bar mounted light....which is very good and the only light I am using at the moment.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gerryl said:


> Found this https://www.bike24.com/p2246470.html?action=basketquickdelete&delete_key=246470_0
> 
> but shipping is about $20 (to the US) as pointed out above.
> 
> ...


Here's a link to an Amazon light that is very similar to the Cygolite Metro 950/800 and Sigma Buster 700 in performance. You should try your Hangover to see how you like it first. The Hangover will have considerably more throw than any of these other lights but has a very narrow beam were as the Cygolite/Sigma/Ceco will have less throw (still a lot more than your OB Trail) in a wider beam + noticeably higher overall light output. I've only done a couple of rides with the Ceco bar mounted but just got a helmet mount yesterday from Amazon and haven't even opened up the package yet. Will let you know how it works when I get a chance to try it.
Mole

https://www.amazon.com/CECO-USA-Rechargeable-Waterproof-Resistant-Headlight/dp/B07HDWSQ4F


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's a link to an Amazon light that is very similar to the Cygolite Metro 950/800 and Sigma Buster 700 in performance. You should try your Hangover to see how you like it first. The Hangover will have considerably more throw than any of these other lights but has a very narrow beam were as the Cygolite/Sigma/Ceco will have less throw (still a lot more than your OB Trail) in a wider beam + noticeably higher overall light output. I've only done a couple of rides with the Ceco bar mounted but just got a helmet mount yesterday from Amazon and haven't even opened up the package yet. Will let you know how it works when I get a chance to try it.
> Mole
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CECO-USA-Rechargeable-Waterproof-Resistant-Headlight/dp/B07HDWSQ4F


Thanks, Mr Mole will check it out. Thanks to everyone who posts on this forum. Super helpful.

As with most people, looking for the best value for my $ and something around 2 hours of run time with a self contained helmet light (realize all the trade offs, single cell, dual cell, weight, etc.). This will be a supplement to my bar mount outbound trail.

So, if I can get a self contained helmet light close to 2 hours of run time, it will work.

Gerry.

Need to outfit my son, he gets the hangover for xmas, so I will give it a try over the holidays. Now just to find a new bar mounted lighted for him (simga 2000 - will look for reviews on this and other bar mounts or will just buy another trail).


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Initial impressions of the Ceco 1000*



After just a couple of rides + some light meter testing so far impressed with this lights overall value and performance. Almost identical appearance/weight/light output to the Cygolite Metro 950 + even the slide mount allows for use with the Cygolite mounts leads me to believe Cygolite may make this light for Ceco or it is a very closely copied clone. More to come!
Mole

https://www.amazon.com/CECO-USA-Rechargeable-Waterproof-Resistant-Headlight/dp/B07HDWSQ4F

Black = Hi.....Red = Med. Hi.....Green = Med. modes....."Click on image to expand"


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## Yeah right (Jun 1, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> Almost identical appearance/weight/light output to the Cygolite Metro 950 + even the slide mount allows for use with the Cygolite mounts leads me to believe Cygolite may make this light for Ceco or it is a very closely copied clone.


I thought the Ceco had a flat lens and the cygolite had one with the vertical convex stripes. But otherwise pretty identical.


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## jrhilado (Sep 8, 2011)

gerryl said:


> Let me know how you like. Is this a helmet mount? What type of terrain do you typically ride? I need something to just help with my bar mounted light....which is very good and the only light I am using at the moment.


Will gladly do that. Forgot to say that the Sigma Buster 700 I got only included a helmet mount, which may be why it costs cheaper.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Yeah said:


> I thought the Ceco had a flat lens and the cygolite had one with the vertical convex stripes.


That would be correct. I haven't run the Ceco and Metro 950 side by side but from memory I'd say the beams are of similar width but the Cygolite's beam was a little smoother (next chance I get I will take both out to test that, and my memory). Ceco did have a little higher max. lux reading which may have come from the clear lens.











> But otherwise pretty identical.


As you can see from the picture there are also some minor construction differences. Biggest notable difference is in the main UI program. Ceco is low/med./med. high/high/flash with previous mode memory when turning on. The Metro 950 is low/med./high/flash, no mode memory at turn on, and most important to me double click to turbo and single click back to previous mode. Both only come with a bar mount (QR/Metro 950, strrap/Ceco). Important note here if you plan on using either on the bars is the Cygolite QR will not fit 35mm bars and the Ceco's strap mount has some breakage problems according the the Amazon reviews.









Ceco 1000 Worked great as a helmet light on my ride tonight. Good output/throw/beam width that complimented the floody Ravemen LR800 I had on the bars very well.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Moon Meteor Storm Pro updates*











I found out this morning that this light will charge on the fly using a powerbank/usb cable + run without any internal batteries configured this way. Maximum output is limited though (with no internal batteries) and noticed no intensity increase past the med. mode which is set at about 900 lumens on my light. Runtimes on this light are pretty good already but this is a nice feature worth noting. I also noticed the price went back down to a little over $80 again @ Merlincycles.
Mole


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> + run without any internal batteries configured this way. Maximum output is limited though (with no internal batteries) and noticed no intensity increase past the med. mode


Yeah that seems to be the case too with all USB flashlights. Guess it's because they can only charge at up to 2A whereas their internal battery packs can put out what ever the lamp calls for, generally up to 4A judging from the various specs reported.

What emitters/K on that MMSP, Mole? Thanks.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*What's coming up!*

Magicshine Alti 2000. Should have a review on this in a couple of weeks.















Magicshine RN1200. Surprised to see this on ebay since the Alti 1000 just came out a yr. ago. This one looks like it may have a cutoff beam but same 21700 battery and XP-L emitter as the alti. Less expensive and a little heavier. Shipped from China with expected delivery in March.

eBay









More Flashlights. Main one I have high hopes for is the Astrolux HL01. A little hefty but am hoping the P-style mounting advantage will mask that. Looks like a bicycle friendly UI and am hoping the extra weight will help stabilize the output at a higher level than most of these style lights.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Astrolux HL01*

Here's some pictures of my successful HL01 helmet mounting. Used an old band style helmet mount and a Gloworm Velcro buckle strap. My first attempt involved a nice Armytek mount that the extra thick battery tube of the HL01 snapped in two pieces (for those who considered this option).
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Magicshine Allty 2000*


*
PRO'S*

A+ user friendly.
Great mounting system.
Great flood beam (for user) that works good for mtn. biking too.
First class fit and finish.

*
CON'S*

Will activate thermal protection in the brightest setting even in moderate temperatures (expect about 5 minutes of use before the light output steps down).
Not so great beam pattern for approaching traffic/pedestrians. Too much top spill for a commuter style light.

***Read full review at the below link***
https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/magicshine-allty-2000-review-1128251.html#post14557819

Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's some pictures of my successful HL01 helmet mounting. Used an old band style helmet mount and a Gloworm Velcro buckle strap. My first attempt involved a nice Armytek mount that the extra thick battery tube of the HL01 snapped in two pieces (for those who considered this option).
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1308741
> View attachment 1308743


Real shame about the Armytek mount. Didn't it come with some kind of helmet or head band mount? I was going to recommend the rubber mount that Zebralight sells but after taking a good look at it I found out it wouldn't even stretch over a standard 18650 torch without really forcing it ( which would not be a good idea ). Turns out the Zebralight battery tubes are quite skinny which might be one of the many reasons why so many people like them.

Any comments on the performance of the HL01. Do you like the beam pattern of the output and how the UI works ?


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## thealperaydin (Jan 23, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Night before last the Moon accompanied me on my first 40+ mile ride since my heart surgery last April. Beautiful ride with temps starting out around 90 degrees and maybe dipping into the high 70's by the time I got home around midnight. I've been running mostly single cell self-contained lights this yr (when I've been able to ride) so was a nice change taking a light with more battery capacity where very comfortable amounts of light were available without having to worry about how much juice was left in the tank. Right at about 4 hrs. with the lights running in the lowest mode which I have set to about 700 lumens and 3 of the nine matrix fuel gauge lights still showing when I got home. Haven't tried the remote yet but so far seems like a lot of light for the $79 Merlin is currently charging (shipped) to the US!
> Mole
> 
> https://www.merlincycles.com/moon-meteor-storm-pro-rechargeable-front-bike-light-2019-95012.html


Hello Mr Mole,

I have 1x moon meteor storm pro 2019.

I made a madness and bought another moon meteor storm pro 2019. Now the weather is very bad here. As soon as the weather is nice, I am very curious how the two will light at the same time. But I want to add one more thing. The batteries inside this product are not classic 18650 batteries. There are positive and negative poles on one side. He made such a design by adding a special title using Moon Lg's classic 18650 battery. Code of this standard battery: LGEBF1L1865
I have no idea what to do when the existing batteries are over. If you say why, buying batteries alone is very difficult. Due to the airline transportation rules, there is no battery delivery. I would be glad if you share your thoughts and ideas. Could we customize these batteries this way? greetings.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

thealperaydin said:


> ....But I want to add one more thing. The batteries inside this product are not classic 18650 batteries. *There are positive and negative poles on one side.* He made such a design by adding a special title using Moon Lg's classic 18650 battery. Code of this standard battery: LGEBF1L1865
> I have no idea what to do when the existing batteries are over. If you say why, buying batteries alone is very difficult. Due to the airline transportation rules, there is no battery delivery. I would be glad if you share your thoughts and ideas. Could we customize these batteries this way? greetings.


Somewhere in the past I remember seeing something like somewhere but I've never ever seen such a 18650 battery configuration myself or seen them sold anywhere. What a strange thing to have to deal with! I suppose you could modify a standard set of flat top cells to do this but you would need the special plate that goes on top ( good luck finding those ) and then have the skill to put it all together and have it still fit where it needs to go.

If you lived in the USA I would of recommended sending an email to Orbtronic's battery website and ask if they can modify an 18650 this way. My guess is that they can since they also modify other cells with their own protection circuit. You might be able to buy these from Moon directly if you can find their home website. That might be your best bet.

In the USA we have local vendors that operate stores that just sell all types of batteries including 18650's. If you have stores near you that do that you might be able to get them to modify the cells locally.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

thealperaydin said:


> Hello Mr Mole,
> 
> I have 1x moon meteor storm pro 2019.
> 
> ...


Have you tried contacting Moon or the vendor you got the lights from for battery replacement options? I can't imagine they would go to the trouble to manufacturer the light to have easy access to the batteries and not have a replacement option for sale so would think customer service should be able to assist you. I've looked around a little but no luck so far in finding suitable outside brand replacements. Looking at my lights with replaceable (multiple cell) batteries most are set up with the positive and negative at one end in proprietary cartridges. I'm thinking it must be easier (and less expensive) to manufacturer this way + possibly more reliable as the only one I have that uses regular 18650's (Wiz20) has a reputation for parasitic drain problems that may be related to the trap door for battery access. I'll post if I find out anything new.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Real shame about the Armytek mount. Didn't it come with some kind of helmet or head band mount? I was going to recommend the rubber mount that Zebralight sells but after taking a good look at it I found out it wouldn't even stretch over a standard 18650 torch without really forcing it ( which would not be a good idea ).


Yes the HL01 came with a rubber mount but it looks so flimsy I haven't tried it. Pretty sure it won't hold the light solidly enough to the helmet to keep it stable. Am going to try to repair the Armytek mount and since it's alreaty broken in two take a little wedge out of the broken ends to widen it a little and hopefully get something than will work with the HL01. My expectations of success are pretty low but the mount system pictured works fine for now.



> Turns out the Zebralight battery tubes are quite skinny which might be one of the many reasons why so many people like them.


That's one of the things I don't like about the zebralight. Not enough heat-sink mass for the hot ride temps. I see in the spring/summer/fall.



> Any comments on the performance of the HL01. Do you like the beam pattern of the output and how the UI works ?


Pretty limited use of this light so far. Beam is effective used as a bar or helmet light. Max. lux readings in turbo are higher than any of the 1000 lumen and under self-contained lights I've tested but not quite as good as say a Lumina 1200 or Bontrager RT Pro and about 1500 lumens total for the 5000K XP-L model. Unfortunately my SST20 model seems to be an under performer with about half the lumens (somewhat expected) and hardly any higher measurable throw. Will have more details as I get more ridetime with the light.
Mole


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## thealperaydin (Jan 23, 2020)

Cat-man-do said:


> Somewhere in the past I remember seeing something like somewhere but I've never ever seen such a 18650 battery configuration myself or seen them sold anywhere. What a strange thing to have to deal with! I suppose you could modify a standard set of flat top cells to do this but you would need the special plate that goes on top ( good luck finding those ) and then have the skill to put it all together and have it still fit where it needs to go.
> 
> If you lived in the USA I would of recommended sending an email to Orbtronic's battery website and ask if they can modify an 18650 this way. My guess is that they can since they also modify other cells with their own protection circuit. You might be able to buy these from Moon directly if you can find their home website. That might be your best bet.
> 
> In the USA we have local vendors that operate stores that just sell all types of batteries including 18650's. If you have stores near you that do that you might be able to get them to modify the cells locally.


Hello,

Thanks for your answer. I contacted the manufacturer before. In accordance with the airline law, my country does not accept batteries from the air. The distributor of the Moon brand in my country has not been shipping from the Moon company for a long time. I think when the batteries die, I will open one and examine its structure. If I have the chance to imitate this structure, I will be able to make equivalent batteries with any 18650 battery. If I find something, I will share it here. Greetings.


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## thealperaydin (Jan 23, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Have you tried contacting Moon or the vendor you got the lights from for battery replacement options? I can't imagine they would go to the trouble to manufacturer the light to have easy access to the batteries and not have a replacement option for sale so would think customer service should be able to assist you. I've looked around a little but no luck so far in finding suitable outside brand replacements. Looking at my lights with replaceable (multiple cell) batteries most are set up with the positive and negative at one end in proprietary cartridges. I'm thinking it must be easier (and less expensive) to manufacturer this way + possibly more reliable as the only one I have that uses regular 18650's (Wiz20) has a reputation for parasitic drain problems that may be related to the trap door for battery access. I'll post if I find out anything new.
> Mole


Hi,

As I mentioned in my answer to the user named cat-man-do. When these batteries have reached the end of their life, I will open the batteries and examine them and try to do the same. If there is any improvement, I will definitely inform yo


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*When it rains it pours!!!*










Thread title could pertain to the recent storm damage on my house but it doesn't. Title is actually referring to me going from having nothing new to test for a while to picking up a loaner Niterider Lumina 1800 tomorrow and expecting the Magicshine RN1200 I ordered 2 mo. ago to be delivered the following day (not that this is a bad thing!). So will be busy in a good way and expect to get something posted on the Lumina 1800 fairly quickly as I don't plan on keeping the light for more than a few days with a review of the MS RN1200 to follow. Good news on the picture is the Insurance adjuster says I get new ceilings on the patio and in my garage and a reroof less the deductibles and prorating on the roof (YA).
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Niterider Lumina 1800 Dual*

















Well I've gotten lucky lately with Magicshine sending me an Allty 2000 and being able to borrow this Lumina 1800. These lights retail for $150 or more and are out of my budget range for test lights so nice to have the opportunity to include them in this thread (Thanks Magicshine and Eric @ Graymatter bikes in Phoenix). Haven't even gotten to ride with the Lumina 1800 yet but looks like it's going to be a very nice flood beam but with good throw also (good max. lux #'s). I did get to do some Lux meter testing compared to some other similar output lights. Like the similar Allty 2000/Meteor Storm Pro the Lumina 1800 suffered from thermal problems in the highest setting. Chart shows the Lumina 1800 (and Meteor Storm Pro) in 1500 lumen modes. The Lumina 1800 actually produced over 2000 lumens in turbo mode at start up but very quickly dropped below output of the high mode so IMO no reason to use turbo on this light. Hope to get to ride with the Lumina 1800 tonight and will add additional comments over the next few days.
Mole

NR Lumina 1800 = Red
Cygolite Ranger 1400 = Green
Moon Meteor Storm Pro = Fat Blue


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## lloydus79 (Mar 4, 2020)

Hi all,
From UK here. Some excellent knowledge on his forum. 

What's people's views on the sofirn sd05 and Mf01 mini for cycle paths?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Single track or MUP? Because neither has a cutoff which you might find desirable in two way traffic.

Of the two I only own a pair of the Astrolux MF01 Mini, in 4000K CRI 95. Modded them with bishop mitres to reduce glare when confronted head on, and mounted with 360° Rotational holders. Great on trails, makes colors pop. But maybe not as efficient as other lights with cooler tints using CREE's XHP50.2 (such as that Sofirn SD05). Also, like perhaps most other multi-emitter TIR lensed flashlights in its class, has thermal issues that prevent it from delivering more than around 1000 lumens without stepping down. There is a fix for this but will set you back about 20 Euros for the copper cover plates alone, before adding in all the thermal pastes/pads you'd need. Only just received my own copper plates and am still waiting for the thermal epoxy I'd ordered to ship, so can't yet vouch for the overall efficacy myself but others on BLF have praised it highly.

Without the above mentioned remedy, have to say Kaidomain's BL2S bike light with external battery pack beats the Astrolux Mini hands down, despite its own little flaws - stiff power button and Off being included in the UI. Usable amount of light from High through Low, and with its dual CREE XM L2 U3 emitters the 4000K version has a better/rosier tint and is brighter even at at Mid level than similarly spec'ed Astrolux once it has stepped down from High.

But if you're wedded to the idea of using a torch on the bars instead of a dedicated bike light, the Astrolux could still be a good choice if you don't mind the additional investment necessary to get it running decently. Certainly the design is stunning and its 26650 battery capacity with USB-C charging makes it a strong contender.


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## lloydus79 (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks Andy for your detailed post.
The paths are old railway lines that have been tarmaced. No need to worry about blinding vehicles or other users. 


I will check out your suggestion. Also not ruling a bike light but research so far has led me here suggesting maybe I'd get better light with a torch?
Thanks


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well the only advantages I can see of a torch over a dedicated bike light is that it is both self contained and useful in other applications, and most often more economical. But just about any bike light will give you a better beam for riding and with an external battery pack the opportunity for greater capacity/longer run times. While some torches known on BLF as "hot rods" can burn brighter on Turbo, in general they cannot sustain that output very long. Of course the length of your own rides will be a determining factor. I myself most often spend two or three hours at a time riding at dark so for me, capacity is always a primary consideration. But understand not everyone else has the same need.

IIRC GarryBunk here tested the SD05 but wasn't thrilled with the beam pattern, didn't do a great job illuminating the area around his bike's front wheel.

For a fairly small but powerful torch without any thermal issues you might consider the Sofrin SP33 V2 or V3. Both can accept 18650, 21700 and 26650 size cells, adapters included. Earlier version has a boost driver so maintains steady brightness until cell needs to be recharged. But its light not such a good color, noticeably blue and torch lacks the convenience of USB C charging found in the later version. Think the V3 has the same exact emitter as the V2 but somehow the tint comes out a bit whiter - though still plenty blue compared to genuine NW lights. Not bad though on asphalt, gives it a cleaner look than do those relatively warmer 4000K jobbies. Also there is an inexpensive drop-in TIR optic available from Kaidomain to replace the reflector for a smoother beam, only shipping on that item can take a long time.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lloydus79 said:


> Also not ruling a bike light but research so far has led me here suggesting maybe I'd get better light with a torch?
> Thanks


That depends on what your definition of a "better light" is as everybody has different needs. Main advantages I see to torches is field changeable batteries, a better selection of emitters and their configuration, and in most cases cost. Self-contained bike lights main performance advantage over torches is beam patterns designed for cycling usage (quality of light produced is much better than most standard torches) and user friendliness (better mounting systems, controls and their layout). Bike lightheads with tethered batteries best performing option IMO but require more setup time and usually a higher price.

That said with a little work the Sofirn SD05/SP33V2/SP33V3 can be made to work just fine as a bike light. Beam pattern can be altered to be wider and have more (necessary) light around the front tire with the addition of an inexpensive elliptical lens cover (pictured in post #120 of this thread). I'd prefer the SP33's over the SD05 because they offer a better selection of light output over the two usable modes (350 and 1000 lumen) of the SD05. The lens cover can be filed down to fit under the bezel but this does compromise the weatherproofing a bit so using an old section of innertube to hold the cover on may be a better option if used in the rain regularly.
Mole

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/lenses-optics-reflectors/products/wide-angle-lens

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000030345473.html?algo_pvid=6e3c745b-3d98-4285-86fe-710add50779e&af=240682&utm_campaign=240682&aff_platform=aaf&btsid=0be3743615836396828074892e2e61&utm_medium=cpa&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.mtbr.com%2Flights-night-riding%2Fself-contained-z-1105995.html&dp=231bb6dea558765fb0d45ff5d3179091&algo_expid=6e3c745b-3d98-4285-86fe-710add50779e-1&hpx=short1&cv=47843&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_%2Csearchweb201603_&mall_affr=pr3&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=0caf6d30d0de42999229cbc65362f7cc-1583686024341-04605-VnYZvQVf&tmLog=new_Detail_6220&terminal_id=7ca1bd300eae4c54a4dd50770cac6aff&utm_source=admitad&utm_content=47843&aff_request_id=0caf6d30d0de42999229cbc65362f7cc-1583686024341-04605-VnYZvQVf


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Best Lumina!!!*

It only took a couple of rides to figure out the 1800 is the best of the Lumina series lights for my needs. Increased battery capacity is always a plus for me since I tend to do mostly 30+ mile rides but I think this lights beam pattern is its greatest strength. The wide, smooth, and retains good throw beam + a very cool tint gave this light a *very usable* low mode and combined with the battery capacity increase greatly extends the usable runtime for me (which has been an issue in past Lumins I've used). Very cool tint that helps the light at lower output settings does work against it in the higher modes but smooth even light coverage of the beam pattern does a great job of helping my eyes deal with any reflective glare (excellent example of how important beam pattern can be). Negative things about the Lumina 1800: It does run hot in the higher modes. Turbo I could care less about but in 65°ish ride temps. it was hot to the touch in the 1500 lumen high mode so worth mentioning for those who live in warmer climates or use their lights in the higher modes a lot. Also this is not a usb chargeable light and required a provided dedicated NR charger.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Lumina 1800 summary*

In the relatively brief time I've been using the Lumina 1800 I have to say I've been pretty satisfied with its overall performance. Wide and smooth coverage of the beam pattern "just works" and is a major improvement over other Lumina's (and most other self-contained lights) I've used in the past. So 5 star beam pattern and customer service + while it may not be the best it does well at everything = a pretty good all-around package. Good job Niterider :thumbsup:.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Should have some impressions of this Magicshine RN1200 soon if it ever quits raining here in Arizona. Like the Allty 2000 I recently tested it looks and feels pretty good out of the box but we'll see how it works on the bike.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Magicshine RN1200*



https://magicshine.us/product/rn-1200-bike-headlight/









Decent description of the RN1200. Don't know for sure on the weather proofing but light seems solidly built. Unlike the Allty 2000 the light body is almost entirely aluminum and as a result runs cool (also unlike the Allty 2000) barely even warming the light in 70°F in the highest output setting. Output is also very good (higher than claimed) and consistent though runtimes have come up a little short of claims.

RN1200 High = Green/Black, Med. = Orange
Cygolite Ranger 1400 Turbo = Black, High = Red, Med. = Green








The RN1200 shares the same excellent Garmin compatible mount with the Alley 1000/2000. Requires a tool to install (provided) but easy to use and adjust and works with any bar size or shape. UI is simple and easy. Press and hold to turn on or off/single click rotary L/M/H main program/double click to flash modes. Power/mode/battery life button has a light but positive feel and works accurately. Usb C charging port also allows the RN1200 to be used as a powerbank. Overall this is a very user friendly light!







***Definitely need to single click on image to make ledgeable

Unfortunately I can't agree with this (above). If there are any cutoff characteristics in the beam pattern I can't see them as it looks like a traditional symmetrical wide angle beam to me. Great if that's what your looking for but I prefer a little more elliptical shaped beams for bar appropriate floods. Inefficient spread of photons makes the light seem less powerful than it is and a waste of it's excellent power output. Of course this is compared to other lights with similar overall output that usually have around double the RN's $70 retail price. Compared to similarly priced lights the RN1200 is still a powerhouse and along with all its good characteristics a great value. If your looking for a cutoff beam light you need to look else where though!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Just so I'm clear, you're saying that from you experience the light is more or less like a flashlight (i.e. an equal amount of light pointed down at the road and up into the sky. Is that right?


That's correct. The RN1200's beam is quite a bit wider than the Cygolites I have (Metro 800/950, Ranger 1400) so also puts the light beam up in the trees and pretty hard to aim down enough to not still shine into on-coming traffic. This is a light I just aim for best visibility and cover the top of the beam with my hand (when safe to do so) to shield approaching traffic from the top spill. I personally like the beam pattern on my Cygolites a bit better but in every other respect I prefer the RN1200.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Astrolux HL01*











Experimenting with the HL01 (5000K XP-L) revealed it makes a pretty good bar light. Nice beam width and throw makes it very usable as delivered for bike application. Chunky construction also helps keep it thermally stable though a liability for helmet use. User interface program is a bit complicated compared to your typical bike light. Something you'll need to know though to set the light up for cycling (thermal threshold) but if you use the light all the time it shouldn't be a problem as there's just a lot more things you have to remember and once set up it's fairly simple to use. Runtimes are pretty short using a high capacity 18650 cell if you want to run it in the turbo mode but luckily that's not necessary and it's no problem getting a couple of hours at a comfortable output level + it's easy to stick another battery in whenever necessary. Output testing and runtimes will be coming soon.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Astrolux HL01*

















Different mounting layout has made a significant improvement in usability (for me) by placing the on/off/mode button on top where it's easier to operate. Pretty happy with how this setup (Astrolux HL01 XP-L 5000K + Amazon mount and extra batteries) works as a bar light. Will be interesting to see how it fairs in 100° summer weather but last nights ride with 70ish temps. only made it warm running in the turbo mode so I'm optimistic it will do fine. The same light with the 4000K SST20 emitter that I had on my helmet was noticeably warmer under the same conditions. Unfortunately I've been less happy w ith that HL01 version. Max. lumen output is only a little over half of what the XP-L model makes (same runtime) and while it does have a higher max lux reading and more throw (and narrower beam) the tint is a bit warm for me. 
Mole


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Those 4000k SST20's are a small emitter that have 95cri. If you get one with a good tint it has one of the nicest looking beams, but it's not that efficient or powerful. The 5000k ones are 70cri, brighter and more efficient but are no match for the bigger xpl. I just finished putting a 4000k xhp35 in a Convoy S2. Its a narrower beam but it will slightly beat my XP3 for throw. The fourth level matches medium on the XP3, sitting on a table at room temperature with no cooling it will throttle down to a little more throw than low on the XP3. With no throttling on the fourth level it will probably eat a battery every 45 minutes. The third level matches the XP3 on low for throw and draws about 0.7 amps on the battery. The beam is getting a bit narrow for singletrack at that point but still rideable.

It's not as efficient as an xpl but it does a really good job of putting the light where its needed. The beam looks like a good quality xpl-hi with a little more punch. That emitter has a lot of promise for a self contained light.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

arc said:


> Those 4000k SST20's are a small emitter that have 95cri. If you get one with a good tint it has one of the nicest looking beams, but it's not that efficient or powerful. The 5000k ones are 70cri, brighter and more efficient but are no match for the bigger xpl. I just finished putting a 4000k xhp35 in a Convoy S2. Its a narrower beam but it will slightly beat my XP3 for throw. The fourth level matches medium on the XP3, sitting on a table at room temperature with no cooling it will throttle down to a little more throw than low on the XP3. With no throttling on the fourth level it will probably eat a battery every 45 minutes. The third level matches the XP3 on low for throw and draws about 0.7 amps on the battery. The beam is getting a bit narrow for singletrack at that point but still rideable.
> 
> It's not as efficient as an xpl but it does a really good job of putting the light where its needed. The beam looks like a good quality xpl-hi with a little more punch. That emitter has a lot of promise for a self contained light.


Curious what you think of the SST40 emitter. I picked up a Convoy S2+SST40 5000K and have been very pleased with the lights balance of output, beam width, throw, and efficiency for helmet application on a bike. Would love to try the SST40 using the HL01 as a host light.
Mole


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

I have a couple of those emitters around here somewhere, they were supposed to be put in two flashlights that have 6000k sst40's but I got really busy at work for a couple months. They seem like a small step up from an xml2 can be driven harder and don't come in 4000k. I can't say much more about them until I get one outside and shine it on a cat, raccoon or some other critter. The 6000k in my astrolux FT03 (60mm reflector) doesn't do a great job of keeping colours looking natural but the beam is pretty smooth. The one in my Convoy 21B is pretty ringy, not sure if the reflector position needs fine tuning or maybe they just don't work well together.

The xml3 should be getting close to being released. The little blurb I read claimed more output than the sst40 at stock power levels and be an improvement on the xml2 in every way. There is also a guy at Budgetlightforums designing a small single cell buck boost driver. It should be more efficient than the usual flashlight driver, better temperature regulation and consistent output from full battery to dead. Perfect for a bike flashlight.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New Bike Light Comparison Video*



I came across this video today and thought it worthy of posting here. It's a test as delivered affair so doesn't take into account some very valuable features like programmable preset levels and changeable optic options (mentioned but not shown in beam test portion) but does cover some lights we've not seen or have limited exposure to.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I came across this video today and thought it worthy of posting here. It's a test as delivered affair so doesn't take into account some very valuable features like programmable preset levels and changeable optic options (mentioned but not shown in beam test portion) but does cover some lights we've not seen or have limited exposure to.
> Mole


I always find it fascinating in what the Brits think are the best lights. I was amazed that the Gloworm XS they reviewed ended up in roughly the middle of the pack while the Hope lamp ( U.K. made ) ended up near the top. Even more surprising was that they rated the Magicshine Monteer 6500 as the top lamp.

I was impressed by the beam pattern of the new self-contained, dual emitter Niterider lamp which they also rated fairly high. While they did say it only ran for one hour on high, I'm sure if you were to use some of the lower modes it should still provide a nice beam pattern for a bar lamp and if coupled with a helmet torch or light make for a very nice setup for mountain biking.



arc said:


> Those 4000k SST20's are a small emitter that have 95cri. If you get one with a good tint it has one of the nicest looking beams, but it's not that efficient or powerful. The 5000k ones are 70cri, brighter and more efficient but are no match for the bigger xpl. ....


Mr. arc ; thank you for your comments on the SST series of LED's. I'm not too familiar with these emitters so your comments were most welcome. My Firefies E01 however is the first torch I own that is using an SST40 ( 5700K rating ). With the provided TIR optic it does however make for a very nice beam pattern suitable for helmet use although It might not be as nice at my Convoy M1 with Cree XP-L Hi. Still, it's pretty much in the same Ballpark and makes for an excellent helmet torch. Since it can use 21700 cells and the Convoy's can't the E01 will see some major use.

( Someone please give arc some more reputation. I can't give him anymore and he deserves to have more that just two greenies. :thumbsup: )


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I always find it fascinating in what the Brits think are the best lights. I was amazed that the Gloworm XS they reviewed ended up in roughly the middle of the pack while the Hope lamp ( U.K. made ) ended up near the top. Even more surprising was that they rated the Magicshine Monteer 6500 as the top lamp.


It was a little disappointing they mentioned and even showed the Gloworm's included wide angle optics but didn't bother to set the XSV up for how they were going to use it. Not totally surprised the MS 6500 light won as I've seen several people say it's the best light they ever used. Quality of the two MS lights I recently tested (RN1200/Allti 2000) seemed about 10 levels above my old 808's and assuming their flagship 6500 is probably similar or better!



> I was impressed by the beam pattern of the new self-contained, dual emitter Niterider lamp which they also rated fairly high. While they did say it only ran for one hour on high, I'm sure if you were to use some of the lower modes it should still provide a nice beam pattern for a bar lamp and if coupled with a helmet torch or light make for a very nice setup for mountain biking.


I'm not a big Lumina fan but would have no problem recommending the 1800. I had one for a couple of weeks a few months ago and while it still had some of the Lumina characteristics I'm not fond of the beam pattern is sooo good it trumps any of its weaknesses. Nice light!!



> Mr. arc ; thank you for your comments on the SST series of LED's. I'm not too familiar with these emitters so your comments were most welcome. My Firefies E01 however is the first torch I own that is using an SST40 ( 5700K rating ). With the provided TIR optic it does however make for a very nice beam pattern suitable for helmet use although It might not be as nice at my Convoy M1 with Cree XP-L Hi. Still, it's pretty much in the same Ballpark and makes for an excellent helmet torch. Since it can use 21700 cells and the Convoy's can't the E01 will see some major use.


I going to have to reread you E01 review. My last torch purchase of 2 HL01's (1 5000K XPL, 1 4000K SST20) I also added a Convoy S2+ SST40 5000K cause it was only $13 and have been quite impressed with its performance. Compared to the Astrolux XPL version the Convoy makes a little more lumen output and quite a bit more throw thanks in part to its larger/deeper reflector but also runs quite a bit longer on a similar cell so seems more efficient. SSt20 Astrolux is pretty much a dog compared to the other two torches producing only about 50% of the lumen output and having the shortest runtime of the three lamps. Too hefty a price to pay for the high CRI numbers for me.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

A bit pricey for something of unknown quality. Curiosity about the auto dimming when stopped, reported high runtimes (3 hr.) in the high mode, and performance endorsement in the BikeRadar light comparison video convinced me to take a chance on it. I have a feeling it will end up with some sort of custom mount to fix what appears to be its only obvious weakness. My first Wiggle order so we'll see how long it takes to get this thing!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...A bit pricey for something of unknown quality. Curiosity about the auto dimming when stopped, reported high runtimes (3 hr.) in the high mode, and performance endorsement in the BikeRadar light comparison video convinced me to take a chance on it.* I have a feeling it will end up with some sort of custom mount to fix what appears to be its only obvious weakness. *My first Wiggle order so we'll see how long it takes to get this thing!
> Mole


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when it comes to the mount. No so much about the mounting although with two screws it might be a PITA to setup. I was thinking more about that round ( Garminish ) type QR platform. If the plastic is the cheap / brittle Chinese stuff the mount could end up being problematic ( since the lamp itself is no lite-weight ).

The reason for the long run time on high is probably because of the emitters ( Cree XPG-S4...?...do they still make those? ). I have a feeling the lamp will dim when really hot because of the XPG's, how much is anyone's guess. Would of been better ( and brighter ) with more throw if they had chosen to use XP-L HI's. Not to mention the newer XM-L2 and XP-L series are suppose to handle heat better. With the XPG's I really think the throw will suffer. Think back when we were using 2 x BT40's. I remember commenting back then that using two made no sense because two really didn't increase the throw all the much, which was the reason I tried using two. Of course those were NW XPG's and the Pavo with the XPG- S4 bin should be extremely cold, which usually translates to mean " a bit more throw". The real question is, "How much will the multi-optic kill the throw"?

I've ordered from Wiggle before without any issues. When I look on the Wiggle website they had one static night photo which didn't impress me when it comes to throw BUT..as I've often said, camera's don't always show the throw well when most of the light is projected nearer the bike. Now if I'm right and the throw on high is not impressive, the throw on the lesser modes will be even worse.

I will say the price is right. If you prefer a colder LED lamp and are using in combo with a good helmet lamp then the throw is not so important. If the lamp does actually get 3hrs on high that might be the feature that supersedes lack of throw ( if I'm right ) or problems with the mount.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> ....... I have a feeling it will end up with some sort of custom mount to fix what appears to be its only obvious weakness......





Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when it comes to the mount. No so much about the mounting although with two screws it might be a PITA to setup. I was thinking more about that round ( Garminish ) type QR platform. If the plastic is the cheap / brittle Chinese stuff the mount could end up being problematic ( since the lamp itself is no lite-weight ). ............


From the pictures, I'm thinking it will be an easy one to convert to GoPro mounting  .


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> From the pictures, I'm thinking it will be an easy one to convert to GoPro mounting  .


When I get the light I will evaluate what I want to do with the mount. Pictures from other reviews make it look like the "Garmin style" portion of the mount may just unbolt from the bar clamp and I'd like to retain that feature if I can. Agree that it should be easily adapted to Gopro mounting (see picture) which would address the lack of vertical and horizontal adjustment that has been the main complaint in the reviews I've read.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when it comes to the mount. No so much about the mounting although with two screws it might be a PITA to setup. I was thinking more about that round ( Garminish ) type QR platform. If the plastic is the cheap / brittle Chinese stuff the mount could end up being problematic ( since the lamp itself is no lite-weight ).


Will have to do something with the stock mount but am waiting to see everything first before I decide what. I really like the Garmin style mounts that came with the 2 Magicshine lights I recently used so if I can make it work with a different bar clamp I'll go that route. Fitting a Gopro adapter looks simple enough and would be happy with that system too.



> The reason for the long run time on high is probably because of the emitters ( Cree XPG-S4...?...do they still make those? ). I have a feeling the lamp will dim when really hot because of the XPG's, how much is anyone's guess. Would of been better ( and brighter ) with more throw if they had chosen to use XP-L HI's. Not to mention the newer XM-L2 and XP-L series are suppose to handle heat better. With the XPG's I really think the throw will suffer. Think back when we were using 2 x BT40's. I remember commenting back then that using two made no sense because two really didn't increase the throw all the much, which was the reason I tried using two. Of course those were NW XPG's and the Pavo with the XPG- S4 bin should be extremely cold, which usually translates to mean " a bit more throw". The real question is, "How much will the multi-optic kill the throw"?


I have 2 7 XPG lights already (BT70, C&BSeen 7up) and they both have a good mix of flood and throw (which is the way the BikeRadar test described the beam). Both of my 7ups also are frugal with current draw compared to their output which helps with the runtime. I agree to get 3hrs. @ the max setting there will probably be a good amount of output degrading to deal with. Actual runtime claim by manufacturer is 1.9 hrs and I'm unsure of the lights battery capacity so we'll see what I get when the light arrives. Will most likely be using the 1200 lumen setting 90% of the time and if I can get 4-5 hours so set I'll be happy.



> I've ordered from Wiggle before without any issues.


I got a notification from DHL this morning saying I should get the light this coming Thursday so faster then I expected.



> I will say the price is right. If you prefer a colder LED lamp and are using in combo with a good helmet lamp then the throw is not so important. If the lamp does actually get 3hrs on high that might be the feature that supersedes lack of throw ( if I'm right ) or problems with the mount.


I still prefer warmer tint for trail use but since they've been converting all the street lights to led's the 6000Kish tint seems to work better in that environment. Hope I think it was worth the money after using it for a while!
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> Will have to do something with the stock mount but am waiting to see everything first before I decide what. I really like the Garmin style mounts that came with the 2 Magicshine lights I recently used so if I can make it work with a different bar clamp I'll go that route. ..........


From the picture it seems like it is not going to be Garmin compatible.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> From the picture it seems like it is not going to be Garmin compatible.


I'm pretty sure it won't be Garmin compatible too, the dimensions look off. The tester in the Bikeradar video commented the mount was solid and I like the 90° twist and lock style of mounting but not the actual bar clamp. I'll post some pictures when I get the light.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> I'm pretty sure it won't be Garmin compatible too, the dimensions look off. .......


Plus it does not have the notches that are used on Garmin compatible devices to lock them in pace after turn the 90 degrees.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Lifeline Pavo Motion 2400*































DHL dropped off the light this afternoon so Wiggle did pretty good getting it to me quickly. Unfortunate side effect of the current protests is a State imposed curfew (8pm - 5am) so won't get to try it out for a while but have it on the charger and will run what tests I can. My first impression was what a nice looking light. A little chunky but about the same physical size as my Taz 1500. I played around with the UI when I got the light and like the Bikeradar video said it's pretty simple four steady 2000/1000/500/250 lumen modes. The automatic dimming motion program is the only way to access the max output and reduces output quickly when the light's not moving. Shaking the light brought it back to full output but I really need to ride with the light to see how quickly it will transition in use. Unfortunately the flashing modes are also in the motion program which I don't care for but at least the steady modes are on their own program. Stock mount may be a PITA to set up but it does mount the light solidly and both the lighthead and bar clamp Garmin style interfaces are easily removable so ditching the 2 bolt bar mount should be simple. More to come!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*pavo motion 2400*

*@MRM*...; Glad to see you got this so fast. Nice to know Wiggle is using DHL. Damn, that thing is a monster now ain't it. :yesnod: I was going say that I'd like to see some beam shots but unless there is a way to disable the motion sensor I can't see how that will be possible. This also raises another question; How sensitive is the motion sensor? I would have no problem with this as long as the light doesn't drop to 50% output on a really smooth section. Secondly ( you should be able to answer this now ), "When you come to a stop how fast does the motion sensor cut the output"? Ideally I'd like it to kick-in after about 20-30 seconds. That would allow time to take a quick photo at full power. As I see it the usability of the lamp will highly depend on if there is any problems with the motion sensor.

I'm also interested in knowing how stable the lamp is on the stock mount when moving. ( _is there noticeable bouncing or heavy vibration?_ ) Anyway, got thinking that with the larger size ( wider spacing between the LED's ) that there might be better heat dissipation, at least up to the 1000 lumen mode. I sure hope there is some way you can show us a static beam pattern. This lamp could be a super deal if the beam pattern is right, the motion sensor works well and you don't mind LED's that are cool white. (_ Any bluishness to the beam tint?_ )


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@MRM*...; Glad to see you got this so fast. Nice to know Wiggle is using DHL. Damn, that thing is a monster now ain't it. :yesnod: I was going say that I'd like to see some beam shots but unless there is a way to disable the motion sensor I can't see how that will be possible. This also raises another question; How sensitive is the motion sensor? I would have no problem with this as long as the light doesn't drop to 50% output on a really smooth section. Secondly ( you should be able to answer this now ), "When you come to a stop how fast does the motion sensor cut the output"? Ideally I'd like it to kick-in after about 20-30 seconds. That would allow time to take a quick photo at full power. As I see it the usability of the lamp will highly depend on if there is any problems with the motion sensor.
> [/I] )


I could try to figure out simulations for some of this but really need to test it on the bike which won't happen till they lift the current "protest" curfew (hopefully Sunday). Playing around with the light when it is put in the motion program it noticeably starts dimming gradually down to 50% of whatever level it was started in so will be difficult to get any shots @ max. output or take any measurements for that matter. It does have a steady output program but the mode levels are claimed 20% weaker (which I'm OK with) so will do any beam shots and light-meter measurements in that program.



> I'm also interested in knowing how stable the lamp is on the stock mount when moving. ( _is there noticeable bouncing or heavy vibration?_ ) Anyway, got thinking that with the larger size ( wider spacing between the LED's ) that there might be better heat dissipation, at least up to the 1000 lumen mode. I sure hope there is some way you can show us a static beam pattern. This lamp could be a super deal if the beam pattern is right, the motion sensor works well and you don't mind LED's that are cool white. (_ Any bluishness to the beam tint?_


_

Mount seems very solid (which the Bikeradar video also said) but with this heavy of a light I'd like to ride with it over some rough ground before I make my mind up. I did run the light through a full cycle (3 hrs.) of the high mode (2000/1835 claimed/measured lumens) in the steady output program and the highest temp. reading I got with my infrared light gun was just over 100°F which is excellent.
Mole_


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...Playing around with the light when it is put in the motion program it noticeably starts dimming gradually down to 50% of whatever level it was started in so will be difficult to get any shots @ max. output or take any measurements for that matter. *It does have a steady output program* but the mode levels are claimed 20% weaker (which I'm OK with) so will do any beam shots and light-meter measurements in that program.
> 
> Mole


Okay, didn't know it had a steady program mode. Real shame that the "steady program" mode is designed with less output. ( What is the claimed output of the next to highest mode when in "steady mode"? )
Looking forward to a beam shot when you get the chance.

Sorry to hear you live near an area that is dealing with the current protests. That has to be a real drag. Hopefully most of this will fade in the current week. Strange that your Governor decided to issue a state wide curfew instead of only in the areas where the protests were held. Thankfully no protests in Md. at this time although the closest ones are in Washington D.C. ( as to be expected ). Sadly, with all the close-down due to the Covid-19 virus there is unfortunately a lot of people either laid off from work or home from school / College with nothing better to do and a lot of spare time on their hands. Just a unfortunate confluence of two bad things happening at the same time. Never thought I'd say this but I'll be happy when the news cycles back to just updates on the Covid-19 virus.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay, didn't know it had a steady program mode. Real shame that the "steady program" mode is designed with less output. ( What is the claimed output of the next to highest mode when in "steady mode"? )
> Looking forward to a beam shot when you get the chance.


Claimed output of each of the mode levels in the steady program are 2000/1000/500/250 lumens. Keeping my fingers crossed that I will be able to get out for a good ride with the light on Sunday. Just shining the light on the wall the coverage looks a little wider than my BT40, a little softer around the edges of the beam but more intense at the center, and unfortunately a cooler tint. Max lux readings are more than double the BT40's numbers so throw should be good for a bar light. One thing I found I don't like is it took about 8 hrs. to charge the thing after running it in the high/steady mode for 3 hrs.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Unfortunately still no good ride with the Pavo 2400 yet. Last I herd the curfew was supposed to end @ 5am this morning but predicted high winds this evening might keep me off the bike tonight too cryin. Only actual ride time so far has been 15-20 minutes of pre-curfew semi darkness a couple of nights ago. Beam looks nice and wide but that's about the only valuable comment I can make considering the lighting conditions. Indoor test has been a bit of good and bad (IMO). The light did run a full 3 hrs. in the steady/high mode and while the output did degrade it spent most of the time in the 1300-1400 lumen range, above 1000 lumens till about 2.5 hrs., and didn't dip below 500 lumens till just before 3 hrs. thumbsup. Next level down I was expecting a lower but very usable output (which it has) and more consistency (which wasn't as good as what I anticipated). While I'm sure the second highest consistent mode will run over 6 hrs. (I quit test after it dropped below 350 lumenn @ 4.5 hrs.) my 500 lumen lower level output for mtn. biking was only extended to about 4 hrs so not much of an improvement over the high/steady level. Of course beam pattern effectiveness can influence how usable the light is at higher and lower output levels so really need actual ride impressions to solidify my opinion. More to come, hopefully soon!
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Unfortunately still no good ride with the Pavo 2400 yet. Last I herd the curfew was supposed to end @ 5am this morning but predicted high winds this evening might keep me off the bike tonight too cryin. Only actual ride time so far has been 15-20 minutes of pre-curfew semi darkness a couple of nights ago. Beam looks nice and wide but that's about the only valuable comment I can make considering the lighting conditions. Indoor test has been a bit of good and bad (IMO). The light did run a full 3 hrs. in the steady/high mode and while the output did degrade it spent most of the time in the 1300-1400 lumen range, above 1000 lumens till about 2.5 hrs., and didn't dip below 500 lumens till just before 3 hrs. thumbsup. Next level down I was expecting a lower but very usable output (which it has) and more consistency (which wasn't as good as what I anticipated). While I'm sure the second highest consistent mode will run over 6 hrs. (I quit test after it dropped below 350 lumenn @ 4.5 hrs.) my 500 lumen lower level output for mtn. biking was only extended to about 4 hrs so not much of an improvement over the high/steady level. Of course beam pattern effectiveness can influence how usable the light is at higher and lower output levels so really need actual ride impressions to solidify my opinion. More to come, hopefully soon!
> Mole


All things considered it still sounds like good bang for the buck. Hard for any lamp to maintain an output over 2000 lumen unless of course you are using the newer / brighter LED's and have a good size battery. XP-G is just so old school. I'm of the opinion that a lot of the drop in brightness is just due to how the XP-G's react when really driven hard.

Another possibility to consider is that you /we really don't know if any thing coming from China now is using actual Cree LED's. The Chinese probably have effectively cloned almost every LED that Cree has made ( except perhaps the newer XHP series ). That said the Chinese are also using a lot of the Luminus SST LED's which I'm sure they can likely clone as well.

Sad to hear about the bad weather your way. Tropical storms can indeed screw things up for a good while. As for the curfew, I read in one of your local news websites that many people in Arizona were just ignoring the state wide curfew. If it had been me I'd of ran that sucker......and then lied if caught...._"Curfew?...:eekster:...What Curfew?...I thought that was for the cities....No, it's not?....OMG, I'm sorry officer I'll go right home"_. Now if you actually live in one of the urban areas of Arizona than maybe that lie wouldn't work but didn't sound like too many people were being arrested for breaking curfew unless they were in one of the trouble spots. Then again I'd likely not be willing to ride if I started seeing a bunch of hooded / masked people walking around with poles, baseball bats or cans of gas.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK, curfew ended yesterday morning and in spite of questionable weather conditions I did go out last night with the Pavo 2400. First 3 miles of the ride had me going straight into a 17mph headwind but the rest of the 30mi. total distance was done at less severe angles and it was still blowing at 14mph when I got home so I did get some tailwind action too. Maybe only used the light for half the ride but it did give me an opportunity to try out the motion mode which I have mixed feelings about. It definitely works so you get the advantage of less power drain when not necessary and less heat buildup with no air flow when stopped but I would say useing the 2nd highest motion mode instead of dimming from 1200 lumens to 600 lumens it goes down to maybe 100 lumens first and then back to the 600 level. It may be picky but it makes it feel like the system could be refined a bit more though it may also be something I would just get used to. Brightness levels react quickly to starting and stopping but I do wish they hadn't combined the flash modes and motion modes on one program. Beam pattern seem pretty good from first impressions. It's nice and wide but doesn't flood the foreground with too much light + has plenty of throw for bar use. Mount holds the light solidly (no beam bounce) but 2 bolt bar clamp systems is a giant PITA to use. For now I need to get some more time using the light and I think I will concentrate on finding an easier to use and adjust mounting system.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I did my Saturday night 50 miler on my Raleigh SS with the Pavo 2400 on the left of the stem and my Magicshine RN1200 on the right for comparison. Sound a bit unfair and it is if your comparing runtime (Pavo runs about 2x as long) or mounts, cost, and ease of use (RN trounces the Pavo here) but overall light output (other than initial turn on) and beam pattern are surprisingly similar (2 highest modes). The Pavo's floody beam is a tiny bit wider and shines up into the trees higher but is a little softer near the front tire (which I like) but the RN counters with a more pleasing warmer tint so overall visibility ends up being pretty equal. I did learn a bit more about the motion program too. I had been thinking something was wrong with my light because when using the motion program it would sometimes cycle slowly from bright to dim while riding. Playing around with the two lights last night I figured out that it was doing that only when I would switch to the motion program on the fly. So you have to be stopped to activate the motion program (and have it work correctly). I still need to figure a way to measure the output in the motion program though. Visually to me it seems weaker than the steady program which will be disapointing if that is actually the case.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Lifeline Pavo Motion 2400 = Red line / Magicshine RN1200 = Green line 
**click on image to expand!

In regards to my comments about the Pavo 2400 and RN1200 visual output similarities combining the output vs. runtime curves of the top 2 modes of each light pretty much confirms my visual impressions. Playing around with my meter remotely mounted off the bike I was also able to measure the motion mode by shaking the bars. Unfortunately the results also matched what I noticed visually and instead of being 20% stronger in the motion mode my readings were about 10% weaker than the steady mode at each of the motion settings. So highest output reading I've gotten so far with the Pavo 2400 has been about 1950 lumens but typical to a lot of self-contained lights only for a short time and realistically this ended up being a 1300-1400 lumen light. Much more than that would be too much for me anyway (for bar use) and it has a very nice/effictive floody beam pattern for mtn. biking. Main advantage to this light IMO is its excellent runtimes but with its poor mount, inconsistent mode button, and significantly lower output than claimed for the $139 I paid for it I don't consider it that good of a value.

In regards to the Magicshine RN1200's performance on the output vs. runtime chart it shows a good example of how far single cell self-contained lights have come. Improved output and runtimes means the RN1200 and other larger battery capacity single cell lights (Bontrager Ion 300, Cygolite Ranger 1400) are a far more attractive/effective option even for more serious riders. In the $125-130 range the Ion and Ranger are fairly expensive but the $75 retail ($50 on ebay if you don't mind waiting longer for shipping) RN1200 is by far the best value in this group (IMO) and should fit almost any budget.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen CR1000 - This looks pretty cool!*



I got an e-mail from Bob @ Ravemen alerting me about this new model. 21700 battery (much longer runtimes) and a new lens design for greater throw. Looks like a big improvement over the still sold CR900 so excited to see some rider iimpresions when people start getting their hands on these!
Mole

https://www.ravemen.com/product/CR1000.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Lifeline Pavo Motion 2400 Final Thoughts*

Unfortunately I'm done with this light. I had high hopes from the great review it got on the BikeRadar light comparison video but I don't share their high regards for it. It does work OK but instead of running with lights with twice its claimed output I found that other than for the first 10 or so minutes it was far more comparable to lights with half its claimed output. It has a good beam pattern and excellent runtimes but also considerable heft, an inaccurate mode button, and the mount is such a PITA to use that I always look elsewhere when picking out a light for my rides.
Mole

I'm attempting to return this light because it's been so disappointing. It's an international order and the light has been used a couple of times so my expectations aren't too high but also was expensive enough that I'd like to salvage whatever I can from this purchase.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I got an e-mail from Bob @ Ravemen alerting me about this new model. 21700 battery (much longer runtimes) and a new lens design for greater throw. Looks like a big improvement over the still sold CR900 so excited to see some rider iimpresions when people start getting their hands on these!
> Mole
> 
> https://www.ravemen.com/product/CR1000.html
> ...


Looks like Ravemen is sending me a CR1000 to do a review on (Ya and thank you BoB/Ravemen!). Other good news is there is going to be a new US distributor for Ravemen products so all their lights and accessories should be easier to source for US customers.
Mole


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> I got an e-mail from Bob @ Ravemen alerting me about this new model [CR1000]. 21700 battery (much longer runtimes) and a new lens design for greater throw. Looks like a big improvement


The shown wallshot look interesting, but for my liking the brightness distribution in that wallshot is still too homogeneous for proper throw at non-blinding adjustment. Would need a lot more brightness just below the cut-off (or a lot less in the rest of the beam)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> The shown wallshot look interesting, but for my liking the brightness distribution in that wallshot is still too homogeneous for proper throw at non-blinding adjustment. Would need a lot more brightness just below the cut-off (or a lot less in the rest of the beam)


When Ravemen first contacted me about this light they seemed more interested in my opinion of how the CR1000 would work as a bar light for mountain biking so I'm thinking their intention was to make a low glare all-rounder and not a brighter/higher battery capacity replacement for the more cutoff beam style CR900. Beam shape is different so I'm anxious to try it out to see how effective it is.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> When Ravemen first contacted me about this light they seemed more interested in my opinion of how the CR1000 would work as a bar light for mountain biking so I'm thinking their intention was to make a low glare all-rounder and not a brighter/higher battery capacity replacement for the more cutoff beam style CR900. Beam shape is different so I'm anxious to try it out to see how effective it is.
> Mole


To me it looks like they are trying to put more light not only further out but to also limit the brightness of the width portion of the beam pattern. I thought this might make a road lamp that might appeal to those who think the current optics limit the throw ( which it does ). Personally I like the current optic. Works on the road and works on the trail. I might actually think of buying one of the new CR-1000 but I want to see a road beam pattern photo first.

Now if Raveman does actually find someone to sell their products in the USA I might just go ahead and buy one from them and then return it if it turns out I don't like the beam pattern.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> To me it looks like they are trying to put more light not only further out but to also limit the brightness of the width portion of the beam pattern. I thought this might make a road lamp that might appeal to those who think the current optics limit the throw ( which it does ). Personally I like the current optic. Works on the road and works on the trail. I might actually think of buying one of the new CR-1000 but I want to see a road beam pattern photo first.
> 
> Now if Raveman does actually find someone to sell their products in the USA I might just go ahead and buy one from them and then return it if it turns out I don't like the beam pattern.


CR900 / CR1000
LR800




















In the "beamshot dimension" judging only from Ravemen's posted beam shots of the CR900/CR1000/LR800 I too have some reservations about the beam pattern. We'll see what it's like to ride with in the real world.

Curious if you've ever taken the front of your CR700 apart? As per our off-line conversation I'm wondering if the optic would be switchable since the construction of the 700 and 1000 appear similar. 
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...In the "beamshot dimension" judging only from Ravemen's posted beam shots of the CR900/CR1000/LR800 I too have some reservations about the beam pattern. We'll see what it's like to ride with in the real world.
> 
> *Curious if you've ever taken the front of your CR700 apart?* As per our off-line conversation I'm wondering if the optic would be switchable since the construction of the 700 and 1000 appear similar.
> Mole


The front part of the CR700 and CR1000 look to be constructed differently from the other CR series lamps. With the others the front easily unscrews and the optic can be removed ( and turned upside down if desired ). With the 700/1000 there is no outer ring to unscrew on the front of the lamp. There looks to be an inner ring on the 700 I own but there is only one very small notch on that ring. Trying to remove that inner ring with only one notch, ...would be very hard to do if not totally impossible.

The more photos I see of the CR1000's beam pattern the more I'm not liking it. I'd much rather have it with either the optic in the CR-900 or the newer LR800. Too bad they didn't make the optic in the CR-1000 more accessible. If I could switch out the optic I'd likely buy one. I like how on the CR-1000 the second highest mode is 600 lumen. On the CR-900 the second highest mode is 450 lumen. Now I have no problems using that 450 mode on the one I have but having another 150 lumen with roughly the same amount of run time because of the bigger battery in the 1000 would be sweet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The front part of the CR700 and CR1000 look to be constructed differently from the other CR series lamps. With the others the front easily unscrews and the optic can be removed ( and turned upside down if desired ). With the 700/1000 there is no outer ring to unscrew on the front of the lamp. There looks to be an inner ring on the 700 I own but there is only one very small notch on that ring. Trying to remove that inner ring with only one notch, ...would be very hard to do if not totally impossible.


I agree but think it wouldn't be too hard to make a tool to fit that. I'll take a look when I get the light but will check with Ravemen first to see if they would be willing to sell the optic (since they wouldn't in the past) before I waste any time on it.



> The more photos I see of the CR1000's beam pattern the more I'm not liking it. I'd much rather have it with either the optic in the CR-900 or the newer LR800. Too bad they didn't make the optic in the CR-1000 more accessible. If I could switch out the optic I'd likely buy one. I like how on the CR-1000 the second highest mode is 600 lumen. On the CR-900 the second highest mode is 450 lumen. Now I have no problems using that 450 mode on the one I have but having another 150 lumen with roughly the same amount of run time because of the bigger battery in the 1000 would be sweet.


That 600 lumen second level is a nice feature. If your 900 is anything like my LR800 the 450 lumen second level is probably closer to 600 than the 450 rating so will be interesting to see what the CR1000's second level measures out at. I'm also curious how accurate the claimed runtime for that 2nd level is. Dropping to 60% output should just about double the high mode's runtime so either the 2.7 hr. claim is understated or the CR1000 is not particularly good at maintaining its output in the high mode (which is not like the other Ravemen lights I've tested). I'll do runtime vs. output on the two highest modes to see what's correct.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> I agree but think it wouldn't be too hard to make a tool to fit that. ......


If it turns out that you want a tool for that, I'd be willing to help with that. PM if you want to talk about it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I was looking through the manual on the CR1000 and found this interesting claim. I actually was surprised the output level would be that high unless they mean the max output won't exceed that level even with a fully charged internal battery. Checking the manuals of the other lights that have the battery extension feature only one stated a lumen figure and they were all worded different so confusing. Thought this was interesting and something to add to the list of things to check when I get the light.
Mole

CR1000








PR800


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@MRM*; About the CR1000 and the external charging you mention above;

I see what you mean about the wording. They should of put in a bit more detail. When it comes to electronics and charging all kinds of options are possible, whether in the lamp or inside the charger itself. It might be using a USB-C type charger. Some of those can fast charge at 3A which might make a difference when recharging the battery but if the battery is being charged at the same time that the lamp is being used that would indeed change things if the lamp is programmed to lower the output while charging.

Ideally you would want the lamp to by-pass the internal battery ( at some point ) inside the lamp and use only the input from the charger ( assuming USB-C @3A ) to go directly to powering the LED ( if indeed the LED is on ).

Face it. You're really not going to know how it works until you actual get it and then try using an external power source. If it's using USB-C to charge that would be a good sign. 800 lumen is nothing to snooze about. That's a nice amount of light while riding down a road. If it didn't have that new optic I might have bought one.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@MRM*;
> Face it. You're really not going to know how it works until you actual get it and then try using an external power source. If it's using USB-C to charge that would be a good sign. 800 lumen is nothing to snooze about. That's a nice amount of light while riding down a road. If it didn't have that new optic I might have bought one.


How true! If it ends up being USB-C that would be a pleasant surprise though I didn't see any mention of that in the product details. Micro works fine on my LR800 but the charging light flashes red in the high mode and while I'm not 100% sure what that means I just assumed it indicated output from the external battery wasn't enough to totally power the high mode. I've done runtime tests on the OB Hangover (USB-C) and it always drains the external battery completely and finishes with its internal battery. While I've never got around to doing a runtime on the LR800 + external power source in use it seems to behave the same way at least in the med. mode that I normally use most of the time. I'm going to do runtime vs. output tests anyway but at this point most interested in how the battery extension feature works in the 600 (claimed) lumen med. mode. I haven't heard any more from Bob @ Ravemen but he said he would alert me when the light gets sent out so may be a while before I get my hands on it. I'm curious about the new distributor also so next communication with him I'll ask about that too!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

No word from Ravemen since the 2nd so hoping to here something soon. I did figure out no USB-C for the CR1000 (found that in the spec. section). Interesting that the PR1600 uses USB-C but even though the CR1000 is a newer light I'm guessing they went with micro so it would be compatible with the existing wired remote. Been using my Wiz20 while I wait for the CR1000 since it's my best hot weather light so not suffering. 
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen CR1000*

























This was waiting in my mail box last night. I got it early enough to top off the battery and take it out for a 29 mi. mostly MUP ride with a very positive initial impression of the light. Hard to tell too much from 1 ride though but can safely say the beam is very efficient as I spent most of the ride in the 350 lumen mode which would usually be quite a bit below my comfortable lumen output level. Was also surprised it took less than 2 hrs to fully recharge with the micro usb interface. Will try to post some more details later today and hope to go out with the CR1000 again tonight. So far soooo good!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Last nights ride didn't go as great as the previous. Nothing to do with the CR1000 though, first ride the daytime high was an unusual sub 100° day for this time of yr and its low 90's ride temps. were much more pleasant than last nights low 100's + 5-10 mph of extra wind velocity. Took a different route that had several miles of non-paved surfaces + some enclosed underpasses but ended up with almost the same lights on mileage (28 last night). Less open single and double track & enclosed underpasses I got the impression of less overall output than the other larger battery capacity single cell light I have (which are rated for more output) but still had excellent intensity and coverage in the areas needed so guessing this light is just less wasteful. I've not done any testing with the light-meter yet but am not expecting too much in the bounce test though max lux numbers will probably be competative if not higher than all but the Ion Pro. With how quickly the light has been topping off on recharges I'm more interested in seen what the runtimes for the most used modes are.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Looking forward to a beam shot done on the road ( or wide paved trail ). 
What you said about the lamp using micro-USB, yes I forgot that they would have to change the remote if they used the C format. Nice to hear that it still charges fast, a nice feature for a self-contained lamp.

About you riding with heat levels in the 100'sF: I suppose it you live year-round in Arizona you acclimate to the heat somewhat but (*whew*), boggles my mind to think of doing a long ride in heat like that ( even if the humidity is really low ). 

I finally got a chance to ride tonight. Local temps dropped down to 72°F at 12:30AM but the humidity was 97% because of a ( heavy rain ) late afternoon thunderstorm. Oddly, because of the low temp it actually felt cool when I was riding. I also changed some of my normal cycling clothing and that might have made a difference in how cool I felt. ( Switched over to a sleeveless /mesh shirt and left the gloves home. ) Could be I'm getting use to the local heat because of the prolonged heat wave we are having. I was even taking some hills tonight and I was fine. Anyway, If it hadn't of been so late ( and the fact that I was hungry ) I'd of taken a longer ride. Real shame I get off from work so late. Leaves me with little time to ride if I get home after 12 midnight.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Looking forward to a beam shot done on the road ( or wide paved trail ).
> What you said about the lamp using micro-USB, yes I forgot that they would have to change the remote if they used the C format. Nice to hear that it still charges fast, a nice feature for a self-contained lamp.


CR1000 / LR800 /
PR900






















Not the best shots but I guess it's something to look at. Took the CR1000 out with my other Ravemen lights (PR900/LR800) to a short section of trail (flat and flowy) and did it a couple of times with each light. Actually not a huge difference in the lights other than the CR1000 did have a bit more throw. I did notice the faster I rode the better I liked the CR1000 but I guess that makes sense considering it has the most throw. Will try to get some better road/path pictures.



> About you riding with heat levels in the 100'sF: I suppose it you live year-round in Arizona you acclimate to the heat somewhat but (*whew*), boggles my mind to think of doing a long ride in heat like that ( even if the humidity is really low ).


You do get used to the heat comfort wise but it's definitely something you have to condition your body to to safely ride at higher exertion levels. Usually at the beginning of the hot season I'll just go out and ride easy in the heat for a couple of weeks and then I'm fine. If I allow myself to overheat a couple of time in the early season though I tend to struggle all summer long so am careful about this. I actually prefer the warm summer weather for riding, just not 105°-109°'s I've seen at the start of my rides for the last couple of weeksMole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I took a night off the bike yesterday but that gave me some time to start doing light-meter testing. Actual output numbers are not class leading compared to other similar rated lights but factoring in the limitations of the bounce testing I do to calculate the lumen output (favors narrower symmetrical beams) and the CR1000's better light distribution (see attached wall shot) more than compensates for its lower initial readings. Runtime for high beam fell 5 min. short of claimed 2 hrs. but far better than other single cell lights I've tested. I'm more interested in the 2nd highest mode's runtime and will add that when I get a chance (time consuming!) + the 3rd mode too. Charging after fully draining the battery was just a little over 2.5 hrs. which is excellent.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

@MRM; The new LR1000 does look to have a decent beam pattern and should make an excellent road lamp. The only thing about it that concerns me is what appears to be a bright yellow narrow part of the beam pattern that just goes straight out. Lost is the evenly spread portion of the beam pattern close to the bike. Not that there's not light close to the bike and quite wide at that, it's just that it's the brighter yellow middle part of the beam that bothers me. Admittedly though photos sometimes can't really depict how useful a beam pattern can be. I guess what I'm saying is I'd really have to see it in person in order to really judge how I might or might not like it. 

Next time do a photo of the 600 lumen mode. 

Oh btw, I have a Sofirn IF25A on order and has already shipped. The 25A is a quad SST-20 LED torch. The one I ordered is coming with 4000K emitters and uses a quad optic. Youtube videos make it look to provide a fairly wide spot and decently far throwing output. I would of preferred Cree emitters because I'm not real sure I'll like the tint of the SST's. That said the video definitely looked to be a warmer NW. My hope is that it will match up fairly well tint wise with my Fireflies E07 on the bars. For ~ $35 ( including 4800mAh 21700 cell I couldn't pass it up. I did moan a great sigh of relief when I received the email saying it had shipped. Only gave the lumen output of the 6500K version which they claim is 3800 lumen. The 4000K version won't be as bright but I figure in the 3000 lumen range with boost. I'll of course keep it in the 1200 lumen range so it doesn't over heat and prolongs the battery life. Can't wait to see the quality of the battery.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> @MRM; The new LR1000 does look to have a decent beam pattern and should make an excellent road lamp. The only thing about it that concerns me is what appears to be a bright yellow narrow part of the beam pattern that just goes straight out. Lost is the evenly spread portion of the beam pattern close to the bike. Not that there's not light close to the bike and quite wide at that, it's just that it's the brighter yellow middle part of the beam that bothers me. Admittedly though photos sometimes can't really depict how useful a beam pattern can be. I guess what I'm saying is I'd really have to see it in person in order to really judge how I might or might not like it.


I'll see if I can get a good picture of the beam at the front of the bike. The main beam starts at the tip of the front tire and that narrow column of light extends closer to the bike and includes the tire area. I'm not sure how big a benefit that is if any at all but doesn't seem to be distracting in the main part of the beam. In person there are definitely greater differences in beam width and throw than those beam shots show. For road and path use I'm liking the CR1000's beam pattern and its exceptional usefulness at lower light settings. For trail use I speculate (since I haven't tried it with a helmet light yet) that I'm going to prefer the slightly wider beams of the LR800 or PR900 when used in combo with a helmet light but the beam width differences aren't all that great and the CR1000 works just fine. Here's an updated output chart that includes the med. high setting.











> Oh btw, I have a Sofirn IF25A on order and has already shipped. The 25A is a quad SST-20 LED torch. The one I ordered is coming with 4000K emitters and uses a quad optic. Youtube videos make it look to provide a fairly wide spot and decently far throwing output. I would of preferred Cree emitters because I'm not real sure I'll like the tint of the SST's. That said the video definitely looked to be a warmer NW. My hope is that it will match up fairly well tint wise with my Fireflies E07 on the bars. For ~ $35 ( including 4800mAh 21700 cell I couldn't pass it up. I did moan a great sigh of relief when I received the email saying it had shipped. Only gave the lumen output of the 6500K version which they claim is 3800 lumen. The 4000K version won't be as bright but I figure in the 3000 lumen range with boost. I'll of course keep it in the 1200 lumen range so it doesn't over heat and prolongs the battery life. Can't wait to see the quality of the battery.


Should be fun seeing how that performs. I didn't have found feelings about my only SST20 experience but other seem to really like that emitter and have always wondered if it was me or I just got a sub-par example. 
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ... ( about the Sofirn )...Should be fun seeing how that performs. I didn't have found feelings about my only SST20 experience but other seem to really like that emitter and have always wondered if it was me or I just got a sub-par example.
> Mole


Yeah, I've seen other beam photos of some torches using the SST20 and some of those weren't impressive tint wise but now that I think of it I really don't remember now what Kevin rating I was looking at. The one torch I own with an SST emitter is the Fireflies E01. That one is using the SST40 ( 5700K ) and is quite decent but not as warm a tint as I would prefer. The Sofirn I'm buying with four SST-20's, yes that one I'm rolling the dice on. If it comes close to the tint of the 4000K E07 I own but with a more intense spot I should be pleased. Not counting my chickens though before they are hatched. Just hoping that the demonstration video I saw on Youtube was spot on.

I forget now, what did you buy that had an SST-20 ( or 20's ) that you didn't like, what was the Kelvin rating and what exactly didn't you like about it?. ( Both of us have so many LED lights it's hard to remember all the specifics about everything we bought.  )


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Color and beam pattern on my 26650 7x SST-20 4000K 90+ CRI MF01 Mini is great. Just that the thermal pathway sucked and necessitated the subsequent purchase of a copper heat sink and thermal epoxy to replace the plastic disk under the driver pcb.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I forget now, what did you buy that had an SST-20 ( or 20's ) that you didn't like, what was the Kelvin rating and what exactly didn't you like about it?. ( Both of us have so many LED lights it's hard to remember all the specifics about everything we bought.  )


That was a Astrolux HL01 SST20 4000K (P-Style). I ended up ordering that and a XP-L 5000K version also and glad I did. Everybody has their preference and mine is closer to 5000K but tint wasn't my complaint, it was the output efficiency compared to the XP-L version. The XP-L torch made just about double the lumen output (my measurements), had slightly longer runtimes, and ran noticeably cooler. The SST20 torch did have higher max. lux numbers but the difference wasn't significant. Overall the difference in performance between the two lights was so dramatic I was just never sure there wasn't something wrong with the SST20 torch. I also have a Convoy S2+ with an SST40 5000K emitter and I love that thing. I was so excited when you posted that Fenix was using the SST40 in their new BC30's only to be disappointed to find out they were using the 6500K version (unlike their previous cycling oriented lights). So, considering my uncertainties about my SST20 HL01 I'm very curious how your new light ends up performing.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@MRM and Andychrist :* Well I'm glad to hear that both of you had no problem with the tint of the 4000K SST-20. *MRM*, if the P-style lamp you have used a reflector that might have been the problem. The Cree XP-L on the other hand might be better at using a reflector as that would be my guess why you like it more.

The sofirn IF25A I'm getting is using a quad TIR optic. Since the Fireflies E01 I have is using a single TIR optic and has an excellent beam pattern for the helmet I'm hoping an even better/wider spot beam pattern and tint with the sofirn quad. I am a little disappointed though because today I found out that the output of the sofirn IF25A with SST-20's in the 4000K range has a maximum output of 2300 lumen. I previously thought the output might be in the 2800-3000 range because the 6500K versions are rated much higher. I'll be okay with that though as long as I get the tint, throw and beam pattern I want. I don't plan on using more than 1100 lumen most of the time anyway.

On a side note I found out today ( on Youtube ) that there is a version of the Sofirn IF25 quad that is using_ "mixed tint LED's _". Two are 2700K and the other two are 6500K. By using the UI you can fade/mix the tint's together allowing you to get the actual tint you prefer the best. Fantastic idea. Not sure both are using the same optic but the link I provided looks like the "Mix" option is very interesting if not preferable. _Going forward it would be nice if other manufacturers of bike lights did the same thing and started giving buyers the option to mix their own tints with the lights they sell._ You would lose some potential output by not using all cool white Leds but the trade off would be worth it to have the added feature.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well Cat, no problem either with the tint of my Sofirn SC31B SST20 4000K, which employs a reflector rather than optics like the Astrolux Mini.

Note that only the SST20 4000K is high CRI, which explains why the options in this emitter’s cooler temperatures are more efficient strictly in terms of lumen output but exhibit comparatively odd tints. Seems most video reviewers choose models in 5000K simply for the greater brightness so it’s rare to get a glimpse of the 4000K. 

As lamps in the optimal 4500K are not widely available, I like to overlap a mix of High CRI 4000K/5000K for the best color balance. Lucky for me, my main ride can support up to seven lamps at once, a luxury not afforded on more typical, nimble bikes.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> ....Seems most video reviewers choose models in 5000K simply for the greater brightness so it's rare to get a glimpse of the 4000K.
> 
> *As lamps in the optimal 4500K are not widely available, I like to overlap a mix of High CRI 4000K/5000K for the best color balance. *Lucky for me, my main ride can support up to seven lamps at once, a luxury not afforded on more typical, nimble bikes.


Indeed, I hear you big time on this. At the moment my bar torch is 4000K and as for the helmet torch I have a choice of 5000 or 5700K depending on which torch I chose to use. The Convoy M1 I have ( @5000K one Cree XP-L HI ) seems to blend better with the bar torch and has the better throw. That said I decided to buy the Sofirn IF25A just to see if there is any advantage to using a helmet torch with a warmer tint coupled with a higher potential output. If it turns out I don't like it I'm only out $36.

_Seems you and I agree that 4500K is likely the sweet spot when it comes to using NW LED's_. As you said, those you rarely ever see which is why I chose to go to 4000K. 4000K works fine as long as the lamp you are using has enough potential output. The only downside to the warmer tint LED's is that they don't have as high a lumen output as the cooler LED bins. This means you need to use a bit more current if you want the output equal to the cooler white LED's. You gain better visual trail definition with the NW LED's but the trade off is you lose some efficiency if you still try to use the same lumen output as the CW LED's.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> 4000K works fine as long as the lamp you are using has enough potential output.


I think this will end up being the difference between you liking your new Sofirn and me not being happy with the SST20 HL01 I have. The 700ish lumens my HL01 makes at startup and its less than an hour runtime on a high capacity 18650 just doesn't work for me. Your lights much higher output means you can dial in the amount of light you need and its larger battery will minimize battery changes + I imagine it will have a much nicer beam pattern (mines a bit too spotty). 
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen CR1000*



Shot this for some beam pattern information. Not a cut-off beam but easily adjusted to be low glare.









Hope to be able to get out for some trail usage but with predicted highs not likely this week!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Tried a couple of different configurations pairing the CR1000 and my LR800. Pretty mild trails and pace but all I will attempt since it's not even dipping below 100°F on most of my night rides with no relief in sight. So first my thoughts on the LR800 are it's a great lower powered flood for the bars and nice on the helmet for slower technical trails (estimating here) but lacks the throw for faster open areas with long lines of sight. The CR1000 also works fine on the bars and would be my bar pick if used as your only light but paired with a helmet light the LR800 would be my pick. For helmet use the CR's extra throw is preferable for most situations in spite of its extra weight (that can actually be felt). Riding and re-riding some of the trail sections and flip-flopping the two lights mounting position I definitely preferred the LR-bar/CR-helmet combination. I wouldn't consider any combo of these lights as a high performance off-road setup but more than adequate for fun trail riding for a pretty minimal investment.

Switching mounting positions was made much easier by the Ravemen helmet mount Bob sent me along with the CR1000. Though I'd mention this since it's a nice mount (Gopro compatible, QR, with a Gopro adapter for any Ravemenb slide mount) that uses locking cam levers (similar to the ones used to secure the straps on many helmets) instead of velcro and very easy and quick to attach. Only draw back (that it shares with other mounts that have a large flat base) is it can rock a bit on the curvature of the top of the helmet so just requires building up the front and back of the base a little with some sort of tape or high density foam so the mount contacts the helmet at the front and back rather than the center.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

So far using the CR1000's extended runtime option/external power source hasn't been necessary but I needed to try it to make sure it works as advertised which it does. The high mode requires more current than the usb cable can deliver so using the light this way will also drain some of the internal battery capacity but all the lower modes current needs are covered by the external battery and won't draw anything from the internal battery till the external one's capacity is completely used up. Using an external battery also means you can't use the remote switch which never was a problem with the LR800 and its excellent functioning side mounted mode button but not the case with the CR1000. On the fairly small diameter CR1000 the mode button works positively but requires a fairly firm push and is a little hard to get at with gloved fingers which is made even worse once a usb cable is plugged in just below the button. Add to that a 6 mode single UI program and it can be a PITA adjusting mode levels mid ride. Luckily with the CR1000's longer runtimes afforded by a larger capacity 21700 internal battery + super efficient beam pattern that allows effective use of lower mode levels using an external battery is seldom necessary so using the much better functioning remote is possible (and how I recommend using the light).
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Finally getting a break in the seemingly endless string of 110°F or higher days that yield 100°+ evening ride temps. A monsoon storm came through last night that prevented me from going out on the bike but early morning temps. also dropped so I went out about 4:30am (lower 80's temps) and still got over an hour of light usage (Ravemen CR1000). Lower temps are much easier on me + allowed me to ride the Mukluk which has been sitting for a few months because of brake lever pistons that get sticky and difficult to ride over 90°. I miss riding the Fat's and being able to ride one again was a treat and hopeful will give me the incentive to permanently fix the problem. Still no US distributor information or a firm retail price but the two European sites that list the CR1000 show an identical price for the CR900 so I expect the two lights to have similar pricing in the US too. Won't do a full review till I get that information but that allows extra time with the light which I don't mind at all since the CR1000 fits my current lighting needs perfectly!
Mole


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Where are people finding the CR1000 for sale?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Where are people finding the CR1000 for sale?


I wish I could answer that. I ask every time I'm in contact with Ravemen but no links so far. I've been holding off doing a full review on the CR1000 till I get that information. Too bad since this is such a nice useful light. I also contacted WesternBikeWorks since they now carry a few of the Ravemene lights to see if they could special order anything they didn't stock but only got a "Thank you for your inquiry" but no answer to my question. If I get any new information I'll post it here and I'm happy to answer any questions about the CR1000.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*US online Ravemen source*



I just got this in an e-mail from Bob @ Ravemen!!! They don't have stock yet for the CR1000 so it shows "sold out" but was told it's on its way to them currently so shouldn't be too long.
Mole

https://cyclexp.com/products/ravemen-cr1000-headlight?variant=34222747320452


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

With a link where you can purchase the Ravemen CR1000 in the US it looks like it's time to finish this up. I'll be doing a review thread for the CR1000 but of course your still welcome to ask questions here if you prefer. I'm kind of sad having to move on as I've enjoyed using the CR1000 but I understand there's a new Magicshine Allty1500 soon to arrive (Monteer 8000 also but that's for a different thread) so that will be the next light up. Higher output is the obvious change but larger capacity (5000mAh) 21700 is probably the most important upgrade. Don't know much about the light other than that.
Mole









https://www.magicshine.com/allty-1500-p00155p1.html


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

andychrist said:


> Color and beam pattern on my 26650 7x SST-20 4000K 90+ CRI MF01 Mini is great. Just that the thermal pathway sucked and necessitated the subsequent purchase of a copper heat sink and thermal epoxy to replace the plastic disk under the driver pcb.


i have upgrade my both MF01 Mini with the copper to.

near 1 year later its still my abolut favorit for trails.
4000K from SST-20=outstanding and the beam shape from the MF01 Mini is absolutly perfect for this usage.

in the road beam styled Self contained lights my acebeam BK10"4000K version" one year later still not find a challenger.....

just for update.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*BikeRumor Ravemen CR1000 Review*



I'm getting ready to post my CR1000 review soon but stumbled across this review from BikeRumor that anyone interested in this light should enjoy.
Mole

https://bikerumor.com/2020/08/25/review-ravemen-cr1000-thousand-lumen-single-beam-headlight/

Just posted this!

https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/ravemen-cr1000-review-1151973.html


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lostplaces said:


> ...in the road beam styled Self contained lights my *acebeam BK10"4000K version"* one year later still not find a challenger.....
> 
> just for update.


That Acebeam BK10 looks very interesting. Uses 21700 cell and nice looking lens on the front. They have that on Amazon but the XHP-70 V2 version is sold out at the moment. I might be able to buy one somewhere else but even if I could I don't think I'd be willing to fork out the money. This light is not cheap.

There is a version with the XHP-35 but when I looked at the UI I don't like the mode setup. The high setting ( not boost ) is just over 1K lumen but the run time on that is just 1.75 hrs. Next mode down is just 350 lumen... On the road it would be nice to have a mid mode somewhere in the 600 lumen range. Couldn't find the listing for the UI for the 70 v2 version.


----------



## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Cat-man-do said:


> That Acebeam BK10 .... They have that on Amazon but the *XHP-70 V2* version is sold out at the moment.


coz somethink like that not exist.



Cat-man-do said:


> This light is not cheap.


for the most powerfull STVZO based street light on the market in a ultra tiny size,perfect beam shape, for every day cary.....yes 100$ ist not a present for a product without enemys.

ans what are the challengers?
a bulky 300 gramms space ship with 200 lumen low and 500 lumen turbo.....
https://www.funktionelles.de/Ausrue...MI-I_v7efm6wIVmt_tCh3LJAD_EAkYAyABEgJt-fD_BwE

feel free to show me somethink.



Cat-man-do said:


> There is a version with the XHP-35 but when I looked at the UI I don't like the mode setup. The high setting.... over 1K lumen...... Next mode down is just 350 lumen...


mode spacing is peferct, twice the lumen=small brightness step ups for the human eye.

200,400,1000 lumen ist pefect spaced.

i use for commute work only the 200/400 setting, the other modes are to overpowerd for 20km/h commute speed but nice to have.

same like the lumintop B01 is in the price range of 30$ without any enemy and a perfect mode spacing.
in the range of 100$ the BK10 is without any enemy with a perfect mode spacing.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Looks like Niterider is expanding its Lumina series. Didn't see anything on their site but Westernbikeworks lists a 1500 and 2000 version for preorder. Large looking emitter so XHP 50.2 or 70.2 would be my guess.
Mole

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/product/niterider-lumina-max-2000-w-nitelink-front-light?sesgl=1


----------



## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1365051
> 
> 
> Looks like Niterider is expanding its Lumina series.


There is a 2500 as well. I've been looking for details for a week or so. there is a remote control as well.

I'm wondering how large it is--can it be a helmet light? Can you pair two headlights to one remote and control them via a bar remote?

I heard an Oct 2 ETA, we'll see.


----------



## TrailTom (Sep 20, 2020)

euro-trash said:


> There is a 2500 as well. I've been looking for details for a week or so. there is a remote control as well.
> 
> I'm wondering how large it is--can it be a helmet light? Can you pair two headlights to one remote and control them via a bar remote?
> 
> I heard an Oct 2 ETA, we'll see.


Here is the the burp from zyrofisher.co.uk

*NITERIDER LUMINA MAX 2000 - NITELINK FRONT LIGHT*

Code:NR6796
*FEATURES*


All New design equipped with NiteLink™ Wireless Technology 
NiteLink™ Wireless Technology allows the rider to pair and simultaneously power on/off the headlight and Omega EVO 300 taillight wirelessly. (Taillight sold separately) 
High Powered Rugged design made with Dupont® fiberglass reinforced plastic 
Multiple light modes including varying Steady and Safety Flashes 
Handlebar mounting (Up to 35mm) with Quick Release Tab for easy light removal 
Helmet mounting available with optional helmet mount accessory (SKU# 6349) 
CREE™ LEDs - the highest performing LEDs on the market 
Custom Reflector design that's optimized performance on off-road and on-road 
MAX Boost Mode! Unleash max LED output by double tapping the power button 
Thermal regulated through a highly efficient aluminum heatsink 
Compatibile with NiteLink™ Wireless Remote Switch (Sold separately, SKU# 5111) 
Accurate 8-step Fuel Gauge 
USB Rechargeable 
Daylight visible for Optimal VIZ 
Max Boost Mode! Unleash Max LED Output 
Varying Steady and Safety Flash Modes 
2000 Lumens (Max Boost Mode)


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Magicshine allty 1500/1000*
















https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/allty1500-vs-allty1000-vs-rn1200-magicshine-21700-lights-compared-1154105.html

Here's a link to the review I did on these two Magicshine Allty lights (1500 & 1000). Physically identical though the internal setups are different. The 1500 has a larger capacity battery (5000mAh) and a higher output rating. Very nice lights overall with good runtime lengths thanks to their 21700 batteries and great mounts and user friendliness. The extra $5 you pay for the 1500 seems like a bargain and does get you extra runtime lengths but it lacks the output consistency of the 1000 and for most of their usage times the 1000 actually puts out more light (?????). Output differences may be minor but for me the extra 50 lumen advantage in the med. mode (most used mode) just makes the light more useful for me. The 1000 is a gem and my favorite of the two but if its extra runtime is of use to you the 1500 may best serve your needs, just be forewarned Its extra initial output will only be a benefit for the first few minutes of operation.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Magicshine RN1500*











Another new Magicshine light to try (I paid for this one). So far the RN1200 has been my favorite of the single cell/emitter Allty/RN lights and what I'm hoping for is longer runtimes from the larger capacity battery and a little more throw like the Allty 1500 but retaining the RN1200's output consistency. I'm not even looking for more power since the 1200 made around 1500 lumens already. Anyway we'll see what what I get out of this light. It's on the charger now and I'm hpoing to either get a ride in with it or at least some initial testing of output.
Mole


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## klaudiop (Nov 25, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Another new Magicshine light to try (I paid for this one). So far the RN1200 has been my favorite of the single cell/emitter Allty/RN lights and what I'm hoping for is longer runtimes from the larger capacity battery and a little more throw like the Allty 1500 but retaining the RN1200's output consistency. I'm not even looking for more power since the 1200 made around 1500 lumens already. Anyway we'll see what what I get out of this light. It's on the charger now and I'm hpoing to either get a ride in with it or at least some initial testing of output.
> Mole


I am also looking to this light as my helmet option, if it holds around 3.5h at 750lm output. I've found a review stating it holds 5:30h on mid setting, but I am afraid it was not cooled.
Waiting on your feedback !

klaudiop


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

klaudiop said:


> I am also looking to this light as my helmet option, if it holds around 3.5h at 750lm output. I've found a review stating it holds 5:30h on mid setting, but I am afraid it was not cooled.
> Waiting on your feedback !
> 
> klaudiop


Hopefully I'll get the testing done on the mid mode tonight. It ran 99 min. in the high mode, made a ton of power (2000+ lumens at turn on), but unfortunately didn't match the RN1200's output consistency. Not sure I'd recommend either RN for helmet use. Light and helmet mount combined weighed 209g and if the beam turns out like the RN1200 (same optics/different emitters) it may be a bit floody. I'll post more info as I get it.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

klaudiop said:


> I am also looking to this light as my helmet option, if it holds around 3.5h at 750lm output. I've found a review stating it holds 5:30h on mid setting, but I am afraid it was not cooled.
> Waiting on your feedback !
> 
> klaudiop


Here's what I got. Disappointingly inconsistent and too bad MS chose this output regulation pattern as they could have achieved 4 hrs. @ 750 lumens if they had just put the higher capacity battery in the RN1200. The little jog at the end of the RN1500's med mode was just me clicking from med. through the other modes and back to med just to see what king of change I would get at that low battery charge level. It ran 7 min. short of 5 hrs. and I'm sure would have reached that if I hadn't done that. Chart also shows Allty1500's med. mode results. Similar output except at the start but actually had a higher cd value through the entire med. mode + is about 35g lighter so IMO would make a better helmet light of the two (in med. mode but also high which I'll add later). I'm getting a COVID test today so depending on the results it may be a while before I get to actually ride with the RN1500 so additional info may come slow with this light.
Mole


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## klaudiop (Nov 25, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's what I got. Disappointingly inconsistent and too bad MS chose this output regulation pattern as they could have achieved 4 hrs. @ 750 lumens if they had just put the higher capacity battery in the RN1200. The little jog at the end of the RN1500's med mode was just me clicking from med. through the other modes and back to med just to see what king of change I would get at that low battery charge level. It ran 7 min. short of 5 hrs. and I'm sure would have reached that if I hadn't done that. Chart also shows Allty1500's med. mode results. Similar output except at the start but actually had a higher cd value through the entire med. mode + is about 35g lighter so IMO would make a better helmet light of the two (in med. mode but also high which I'll add later). I'm getting a COVID test today so depending on the results it may be a while before I get to actually ride with the RN1500 so additional info may come slow with this light.
> Mole


Thank you for the feedback.
Well, as expected it is pretty inconsistent. You performed the test with or without any type of cooling? It lasted more than 4hrs but the output was a bit low.

I know you said this is too flooded to use in a helmet, but I just like it more than a spot one (currently using an eBay 5 cree cheap light, with an external battery, very spotty).



> if they had just put the higher capacity battery in the RN1200


Yes, I just don't understand that either. RN1200 is powered by the same 21700 sized cell, why not dropping in the 5000mah there... who knows!
I will just wait then a little bit more before jumping on this one for my helmet light. It is selling on Aliexpress for a little over 40€, not sure if it is a fake or not (they are all made there though).



> I'm getting a COVID test today so depending on the results it may be a while before I get to actually ride with the RN1500 so additional info may come slow with this light.


Wish you the best here!

cheers
klaudiop


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

klaudiop said:


> Thank you for the feedback.
> Well, as expected it is pretty inconsistent. You performed the test with or without any type of cooling? It lasted more than 4hrs but the output was a bit low.


Yes a fan was used in 72°F ambient temperature.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Magicshine RN1500 First Ride*




> > I'm getting a COVID test today so depending on the results it may be a while before I get to actually ride with the RN1500 so additional info may come slow with this light.
> 
> 
> Wish you the best here!
> ...


Thanks, no COVID detected:thumbsup:. Last night was my first ride this week (5 days off bike from pretest COVID quarantine) and first ride using the RN1500. I was so happy to get out I wasn't paying as close of attention to the light as much as just enjoying the ride but there were a few things that stood out, mainly that the RN1500 is not just a more powerful version of the RN1200. One of the differences between the two lights is the 1500 uses a SST40 emitter vs. the unspecified Cree emitter used in the 1200. I need to get these lights out for some side by side but going off memory it seems like the 1500 has a slightly narrower/more focused beam but maybe not quite as smooth overall coverage as the 1200. Extra throw helped the low setting be more useful as I don't really like the low setting on the smaller output light. From my indoor testing and a couple of miles of high mode operation the RN1500 does a good job of making lots of light (equivaleto ot Lumina 1800/Moon meteor storm pro in turbo mode) but also ran cool in 50ish degree weather after a little over a mile of high mode operation. Didn't notice anything I would classify as negative after the first ride but will continue testing.
Mole


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## klaudiop (Nov 25, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Thanks, no COVID detected:thumbsup:. Last night was my first ride this week (5 days off bike from pretest COVID quarantine) and first ride using the RN1500. I was so happy to get out I wasn't paying as close of attention to the light as much as just enjoying the ride but there were a few things that stood out, mainly that the RN1500 is not just a more powerful version of the RN1200. One of the differences between the two lights is the 1500 uses a SST40 emitter vs. the unspecified Cree emitter used in the 1200. I need to get these lights out for some side by side but going off memory it seems like the 1500 has a slightly narrower/more focused beam but maybe not quite as smooth overall coverage as the 1200. Extra throw helped the low setting be more useful as I don't really like the low setting on the smaller output light. From my indoor testing and a couple of miles of high mode operation the RN1500 does a good job of making lots of light (equivaleto ot Lumina 1800/Moon meteor storm pro in turbo mode) but also ran cool in 50ish degree weather after a little over a mile of high mode operation. Didn't notice anything I would classify as negative after the first ride but will continue testing.
> Mole


Glad to hear that!

So, you might have changed your opinion on using one of these as helmet light? I am almost convinced, and might buy one pretty soon.

cheers
klaudiop


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

klaudiop said:


> Glad to hear that!
> 
> So, you might have changed your opinion on using one of these as helmet light? I am almost convinced, and might buy one pretty soon.
> 
> ...


Certainly you could use the RN as a helmet light but it's just too heavy for my taste and even though it makes more lumens than thee Allty1500 its wider spread beam is less intense so less throw + it's about 40g heavier. Most of the things that work against the RN as a helmet light make it a better bar light though.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*MAGICSHINE RN900*

I bought this RN900 and a yet to be received Ravemen N900 with the intention of comparing both as an alternative to the competent bargain priced Amazon Ceco 1000. I won't be able to ride with the RN900 for a while because of an injury but am quite familiar with it's identical other than output larger brother the RN1200. Heavier duty construction + a larger capacity battery means it's a bit heavy for helmet use + the beam is more flood oriented so the Ceco is probably still a better helmet choice but for bar use the RN's much better mount, mode button, UI program, output consistency, runtimes, wider beam, usb C make the RN a much better choice (IMO).

1125 high mode lumen's from startup to 97 min, not bad!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Med. mode: 230 min. @ 625 lumens and another 10 min. @ 320 lumens where the light shut down right at MS's claimed runtime. RN900's performance is pretty solid for a $42 (delivered) bike light.
Mole


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> Med. mode: 230 min. @ 625 lumens and another 10 min. @ 320 lumens where the light shut down right at MS's claimed runtime. RN900's performance is pretty solid for a $42 (delivered) bike light.


That's a good deal considering it works as a battery bank too.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

znomit said:


> That's a good deal considering it works as a battery bank too.


RN's are definitely nice well equipped lights and quite the bargain if you buy them from Aliexpress. Will be interesting seeing how I like the mode output levels compared to the 1200. I suspect the 1200's extra power won't be all that much of an advantage for this type of light but the extra hour of runtime in the med. mode will!
Mole


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## surefoot (Dec 29, 2020)

might not be the right place but here goes. working on my heart and got a great deal on a well kept walgoose xr250 fs. be nice. when i get better so will the ride. but i noticed an led lower tube light came on it. any body know where to find one?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sofirn SC31 Pro 5000K*


















US $24.99 20% OFF|Sofirn SC31 Pro SST40 5000K Powerful 2000LM LED Flashlight 18650 Torch USB C Rechargeable Anduril UI|LED Flashlights| - AliExpress

This is another pre Christmas buy I bought as a possible alternative to the Ceco 1000 only this one's for the helmet. I normally don't consider torches as direct competition to bike lights because the fact you have to strap a torch to the helmet can be a deal breaker but if you don't mind that this light is worth looking at. Beam pattern of both lights are equally good for helmet use. Sustainable output levels are also similar (Ceco a bit higher) comparing the highest ramping level of the Sofirn to the Ceco's high mode but the Sofirn runs about 15 min. longer from a single 3400mAh cell (which also can be changed), has a nicer/warmer tint, and double clicking to turbo provides a significant power boost for a couple of min. anyway which can be useful. The addition of the Anduril UI is a clear advantage for the Sorfirn as is the much better functioning mode button. The lighter weight and less expensive ($25 w/battery and free shipping) Sofirn only needs a velcro strap and a torch compatible helmet.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*MORE SC31 PRO INFO*



















Adjusting the thermal threshold and upper ramp limit on the SC31 Pro ended up making quite a difference. I think the thing that has surprised me the most is how well this little torch works in its turbo mode. Sure it only gives you about 50 min. of really useable operation from a 3400mAh cell but manages to put out some pretty astounding output numbers without overheating from a 100g total weight light. Test results show how the SC31 Pro compares to the Ceco 1000 in both turbo mode and a slightly lower than standard preset setting for the ramping ceiling which most closely matched the Ceco output max lux wise in its highest mode. I also tried some other ceiling settings but in the end liked the turbo mode the best as the other configurations longer runtimes in exchange for diminished initial output ended up being @ lower output levels which I didn't feel were that beneficial for helmet use. So if the short cell change intervals and PITA torch mounting issues are worth putting up with for a lower purchase price, much nicer Anduril UI, and a noticeable increase in output the Sofirn SC31 Pro should be a better performing helmet option for you than the current class standard Ceco.
Mole


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

Does anybody have experience with either the Cateye Volt 1700 or the Fenix BC30 V2? I'm looking for higher output cordless lights that can do 2 hours and these are a couple of the only ones that fit the size in a relatively compact size. Hoping for options for more floody for bar use. Searching for something for helmet too, more spotty, 1000+ lumens, and again a 2 hour runtime on full.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

randyharris said:


> Does anybody have experience with either the Cateye Volt 1700 or the Fenix BC30 V2? I'm looking for higher output cordless lights that can do 2 hours and these are a couple of the only ones that fit the size in a relatively compact size. Hoping for options for more floody for bar use. Searching for something for helmet too, more spotty, 1000+ lumens, and again a 2 hour runtime on full.


Best mountain bike lights 2021: 14 top-rated options for night riding

10 of the Best Handlebar Mounted Bike Lights Ridden & Rated - Pinkbike

The video I linked briefly comments on the Cateye 1700 and there may be other lights in that test that might work for you. I've not use the cateye or Fenix lights you mentioned but have used the Ravemen PR1200, Gloworm CX, Moon Meteor Storm Pro all of which would give you 1000+ lumens for 2 hrs. or more. If you have any interest/questions about those lights I'll be happy to share my experiences with them. I've even tried a couple of flashlights that with a little work make very nice floody bar lights that will give you a stable 1000+ lumens for over 2 hrs. on a single cell. If your wanting 1000 lumens for 2 hrs. from a helmet light flashlights might actually be your best option. I don't know of any bike lights that would give you what your wanting that don't weigh over 200 grams or flashlights for that matter but I do have a new small torch that would do that with only 1 battery change.
Mole


----------



## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Best mountain bike lights 2021: 14 top-rated options for night riding
> 
> 10 of the Best Handlebar Mounted Bike Lights Ridden & Rated - Pinkbike
> 
> ...


I, unfortunately, am the owner of (4) Gloworm CX lights. At a cursory glance they are great lights. But they are what I would describe as pieces of sh*t. On every single MTB ride the back cap will fall out, we've resorted to keeping them on with Gorilla tape. And the foam on the inside of the battery caps compresses over time making the battery not connect with the electrodes in the light body, and you can neither use them nor charge them without adding more material in there. Truly terrible design. I seriously wish I never wasted $500 on (4) of these lights. Other than the remote never working consistently, my corded battery Gloworm was a real value of a light, but I wanted to go cordless, and was incredibly disappointed.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

randyharris said:


> I, unfortunately, am the owner of (4) Gloworm CX lights. At a cursory glance they are great lights. But they are what I would describe as pieces of sh*t. On every single MTB ride the back cap will fall out, we've resorted to keeping them on with Gorilla tape. And the foam on the inside of the battery caps compresses over time making the battery not connect with the electrodes in the light body, and you can neither use them nor charge them without adding more material in there. Truly terrible design. I seriously wish I never wasted $500 on (4) of these lights. Other than the remote never working consistently, my corded battery Gloworm was a real value of a light, but I wanted to go cordless, and was incredibly disappointed.


Interesting, I've never had that problem with the CX I have but it has been a low usage light for me. Low usage mostly because I had mounting issues with keeping the light stable (it would vertically auto-aim on bumps) + I reaqlly just liked my Ituo Wiz20 better. The new Outbound EVO light has left a very good impression on me so far but unfortunately I've only got to use it a hand full of times because of a crash injury that has kept me off the bike for the last 9 weeks.
Mole


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Interesting, I've never had that problem with the CX I have but it has been a low usage light for me. Low usage mostly because I had mounting issues with keeping the light stable (it would vertically auto-aim on bumps) + I reaqlly just liked my Ituo Wiz20 better. The new Outbound EVO light has left a very good impression on me so far but unfortunately I've only got to use it a hand full of times because of a crash injury that has kept me off the bike for the last 9 weeks.
> Mole


Sorry to hear about your crash, hopefully you're back in the saddle soon.
Btw - Gloworm even sent me new battery caps that were supposed to fix the issue but they have not.

That Outbound Trail Evo looks like a spectacular bar light! It wasn't on my radar and I'm even from Phoenix. The Outbound Hangover I dig with the GoPro mount, just wonder if its too floody for a helmet light.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

randyharris said:


> That Outbound Trail Evo looks like a spectacular bar light! It wasn't on my radar and I'm even from Phoenix. The Outbound Hangover I dig with the GoPro mount, just wonder if its too floody for a helmet light.


Hangover is not floody at all. It's a low lumen high max lux light so the throw is very good but the beam is pretty narrow at distance (narrower that your CX with the spot/spot optic). 
Mole


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Hangover is not floody at all. It's a low lumen high max lux light so the throw is very good but the beam is pretty narrow at distance (narrower that your CX with the spot/spot optic).
> Mole


I would never have guessed given its design with all the horizontal lights. Any top suggestions for a GoPro mount helmet light to complement the Outbound Trail Evo on the bar?


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

randyharris said:


> I would never have guessed given its design with all the horizontal lights. Any top suggestions for a GoPro mount helmet light to complement the Outbound Trail Evo on the bar?


Gloworm XS or Magicshine Monteer 3500. Super throwy Monteer 3500 was a good tint match and beam complimented the EVO well. Similar performing XS should also work well and provide a nicer form factor for helmet mounting and a wireless remote + some other nicer Gloworm features for a higher price. Both are available as a lighthead only option.
Mole


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Gloworm XS or Magicshine Monteer 3500. Super throwy Monteer 3500 was a good tint match and beam complimented the EVO well. Similar performing XS should also work well and provide a nicer form factor for helmet mounting and a wireless remote + some other nicer Gloworm features for a higher price. Both are available as a lighthead only option.
> Mole


Decided to just pull the trigger on the Outbound Lighting Trail Evo for the Bar and the Hangover for helmet. I usually ride to the trails from my house, I'll just use the EVO on the road sections, and flip on the Hangover when I get to the preserves. 

Thanks


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Sofirn SC31 Pro 5000K first ride*

It's going to be a while before I can take the SC31 out for a good test but I took it along last night to give it a try and see how mounting and operation feel. Actual use was very limited but output and beam were pretty impressive. My main concern with SC31 is how it will handle temperatures in the warmer months but in the 60ish degree temps last night the 15 or so minutes I had it on in turbo it did just fine. When I was doing the output testing (75° ambient cooled by fan) I saw case temps. close to 150°F not long after it was turned on but once it settled down to around 1500 lumens or less temps dropped under 130° so if I had to guess I'd say it should handle mid 90° temps before thermal protection takes over. Mounting was simple/easy on the Giro Hex I used and though the mode button was a little harder to find than I expected with gloves once I had my finder on the button it operated flawlessly. Obviously I need to do some more ride testing but so far things look very positive.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Reference reviews (Magicshine Allty 800 & RavemenLR800P) from road.cc*

road.cc reciently did reviews on a couple of the nicer lights I've tested (Magicshine Allty 800 & Ravemen LR800P) so here's links for reference.
Mole

Ravemen LR800P Front Light

Magicshine Allty 800


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

randyharris said:


> Decided to just pull the trigger on the Outbound Lighting Trail Evo for the Bar and the Hangover for helmet. I usually ride to the trails from my house, I'll just use the EVO on the road sections, and flip on the Hangover when I get to the preserves.
> 
> Thanks


Have you had a chance to ride with your new lights yet, curious what you think? I'm back on the bike but still not cleared for anything rough yet so haven't touched my Trail EVO since the crash.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> .... I'm back on the bike but still not cleared for anything rough yet so haven't touched my Trail EVO since the crash.
> Mole


MRM, Glad to hear that you are back on the bike. So far for the year 2021 I've only had the chance to ride ( at night ) about three times. Usually by the time I get home from work the temps have dropped to below 50°F in which case I don't like riding if it's colder. Thankfully though March has been warmer than normal and April is quickly approaching. If I can get a 55-60° road night ride in I'll be tickled pink.

Now if I want to continue mountain biking and be able to enjoy it I'm going to have to lose weight, just no question about it. Controlling how much food I can eat and still lose weight is going to be the really hard part. Has to be done though if I want enjoy riding my bikes not to mention live a healther life. I'm getting sick and tired of looking at my protruding belly when ever I take my shirt off. Anyway will help big time once I can start to ride on a regular basis once the night temps become more comfortable. On the upside I've already had my first Covid vaccine shot and get the second this coming Saturday. ( I turned 66 this month so I need to get serious about my health ).


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> MRM, Glad to hear that you are back on the bike. So far for the year 2021 I've only had the chance to ride ( at night ) about three times. Usually by the time I get home from work the temps have dropped to below 50°F in which case I don't like riding if it's colder. Thankfully though March has been warmer than normal and April is quickly approaching. If I can get a 55-60° road night ride in I'll be tickled pink.


Wish you luck getting the weather your hoping for! I miss MTB riding but just getting out for some street/MUP + a little featureless dirt is a lot better than nothing. I rode 48 mi. a couple of days ago so I'm getting my endurance back but still feel weak/slow and suffering from a slower metabalism so need to loose some more of the 20+ lbs I gained from 3 months of no bike/low activity. Weather is great here so I just need to put in the work/time on the bike.

One of the lights I've been using lately is the Sofirn SC31 Pro (SST40 5000K) . It's been working great as far as weight/comfort and performance but I do wish I could get a little longer usable runtime at the higher settings. Like my other Anduril forches that are supposed to run off a usb tethered remote power source it doesn't work very well operated that way. Have you had any luck with any of your torches running an external battery?
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...One of the lights I've been using lately is the Sofirn SC31 Pro (SST40 5000K) . It's been working great as far as weight/comfort and performance but I do wish I could get a little longer usable runtime at the higher settings. Like my other Anduril forches that are supposed to run off a usb tethered remote power source it doesn't work very well operated that way. Have you had any luck with any of your torches running an external battery?
> Mole


Actually never tried to run any of the torches I own with an external battery. For me the main idea when using a torch is that you can just replace the battery at will. I always try to keep in mind that when it comes to torches I have to remember that torches are really not designed to be used in the on position for long periods when using the higher outputs. While that is unfortunate they can still be useful if you can find a torch with an output bright enough that when used in the medium range can still be useful and not trip the thermal regulation. If I can get somewhere in the 1K lumen range with decent throw without it tripping the thermal regulation circuit I can be happy with that. That however is still hard to find in a torch.

At least you found a torch that has the 5000K version of the SST40. Those are hard to find. If you're going to use a torch as a helmet light I think at this point it's best to pick a temperature range at or near 5000K ( K=Kelvin for those who are new-bees ) even if you prefer a warmer tint. Since you can't run most torches in their boost mode for more than a minute or two having the slightly higher Kelvin range helps give more distance throw when running the lower output modes and since you want more distance throw from a helmet mounted light, I figure this is the best way to go until someone designs a warmer LED with very little heat output. That said I won't be waiting for that to happen anytime soon. 

Now as far as longer run time I think you might be better shopping for a torch that can hold a 21700 cell.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> At least you found a torch that has the 5000K version of the SST40. Those are hard to find. If you're going to use a torch as a helmet light I think at this point it's best to pick a temperature range at or near 5000K ( K=Kelvin for those who are new-bees ) even if you prefer a warmer tint. Since you can't run most torches in their boost mode for more than a minute or two having the slightly higher Kelvin range helps give more distance throw when running the lower output modes and since you want more distance throw from a helmet mounted light, I figure this is the best way to go until someone designs a warmer LED with very little heat output. That said I won't be waiting for that to happen anytime soon.
> 
> Now as far as longer run time I think you might be better shopping for a torch that can hold a 21700 cell.


If you go back to post #264 I did output testing (cooled with fan/75° ambient) for both lumen and lux with both giving me about 45 min. of really good output in the turbo setting. For the first 5 min. or so case temps. on the torch were as high as 149° but the following 40 min. they were in the 120-130° range (similar to normal for BT21/XP2. I was surprised it did that well and should work fine till ride temps get into the 90's. 21700 on this light would probably get me enough extra "excellent output" range to finish a lap of the longer trails I ride so hoping Sofirn offers that as an option in the future.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*LEZYNE MACRO DRIVE 1300XXL*

Finally I found a half way good deal on this light. It's been a point of interest for me but from reading other reviews the "loaded kit" seemed to make for a much better light but placed it above the $100 limit I like to keep for lights in this thread until now (there are a few exceptions). Just got the XXL1300 yesterday so no ride time yet. Initial turn on lux readings are very impressive but doubtful maintainable considering claimed runtime and battery capacity so just hoping for a reasonable stable output level. More to come!
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Please include your thoughts on the mount. I have had a couple inquiries about a GoPro adapter for the Lezyne lights but not enough to justify designing and building yet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Please include your thoughts on the mount. I have had a couple inquiries about a GoPro adapter for the Lezyne lights but not enough to justify designing and building yet.


Absolutely! One of the reasons I thought the "loaded kit" made for a better light was its inclusion of a solid slide style bar mount (along with the wired remote) but while more stable than the standard rubber strap mount it's still a pretty basic plastic unit. Additionally I've seen hot running mentioned in a couple of other reviews so a little additional heat-sinking mass and surface area should help.
Mole


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## doughboyr6 (Aug 26, 2020)

very interested to see your thoughts on the Lezyne. I'm looking for something to mount on my bar and from the pictures I've seen; the 1300xl seems to throw down nice even wide light. But I'm curious on your thoughts between that and the Cygolite 1200/1400 or even metro 1100. I think its down to these ones.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

doughboyr6 said:


> very interested to see your thoughts on the Lezyne. I'm looking for something to mount on my bar and from the pictures I've seen; the 1300xl seems to throw down nice even wide light. But I'm curious on your thoughts between that and the Cygolite 1200/1400 or even metro 1100. I think its down to these ones.


Unfortunately I still haven't done a ride with the Lezyne yet but I'm hoping to change that tonight. I'm curious what type of riding you plan on doing with your light (MTB, road, path, a little of everything?) + approx. how long in minutes your usage requirements are. I have a Cygolite Ranger 1400 I can compare the Lezyne to but not the Metro 1100. I'll be posting ride impressions on the Lezyne XXL1300 and after I get to know the light a bit better share what I think.
Mole


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## doughboyr6 (Aug 26, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Unfortunately I still haven't done a ride with the Lezyne yet but I'm hoping to change that tonight. I'm curious what type of riding you plan on doing with your light (MTB, road, path, a little of everything?) + approx. how long in minutes your usage requirements are. I have a Cygolite Ranger 1400 I can compare the Lezyne to but not the Metro 1100. I'll be posting ride impressions on the Lezyne XXL1300 and after I get to know the light a bit better share what I think.
> Mole


no worries. I wasn't rushing or anything. I've been reading this thread and appreciate your knowledge and insight. I'm new to it all together; but just neighbourhood trails/paths and local natural trails. Nothing crazy. I would guess my rides be under 1.5hrs and even at that, maybe not all at full strength. sorry if my answer is amateur; its cause I am.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

doughboyr6 said:


> no worries. I wasn't rushing or anything. I've been reading this thread and appreciate your knowledge and insight. I'm new to it all together; but just neighbourhood trails/paths and local natural trails. Nothing crazy. I would guess my rides be under 1.5hrs and even at that, maybe not all at full strength. sorry if my answer is amateur; its cause I am.


Thanks for the info., it definitely will be helpful. 
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Lezyne Macro Drive 1300 XXL Update*

Pro's and con's of this light were pretty easy to figure out after a few rides. It has good output compared to other similarly rated lights and its level of output degrading over the the better than average runtime druation is about average (measurable but not too noticeable). The 1300 is an excellent thrower but sacrafices beam width in exchange for distance. Operating the light is easy because of the first class mode button or wired remote but unfortunately the main UI program contains 5 forward modes + 2 flash modes making mode selection changes ackward on the road and unacceptable for MTB riding. There's also a race program with just a high and low setting but the preset 1300/150 lumen levels didn't work very well for me.










As you can see from the above chart output is very good and only degrades gradually with no dramatic drop off at the end. Runtimes were slightly shorter than claimed but still commendable as they are much better than average. A couple of other reviews I've read mentioned that the light ran hot but that was not the case with my light as the case temperature barely went over 100° (cooled by fan) in the highest mode.










Both included mounts (strap and solid) worked fine but nothing to write home about. Slide mount on the solid mount had no rattling and strap mount held the light solidly in position. Mode button on the light was excellent (easy to find and operated with 1 finger).










This is what you get with the loaded kit. Solid and standard strap mount, wired remote and micro usb charging cable and a couple of rubber shims for the solid bar mount + a nice plastic box to keep everything together when not in use.

So in the end the UI program and beam width kind of limit the 1300's off road usefulness (IMO).
For road or path useage the beam is still on the narrow side of ideal but the benefit of its excellent throw would be useful for faster road riding. Excellent long runtimes are useful no matter how you use the light.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*What's coming up!*

I ordered a actual bike specific light from Astrolux (BL02) that I should have in about 3 weeks. Very inexpensive but looks to have a lot of nice features.

Astrolux® BL02 XPG-3 1200lm 5Modes Dual Distance Beam Bike Light USB Rechargeable Flashlight 5000mAh Power Bank Front Light with Headlight Mount Bracket

Ravemen also indicated they may send something new for me to review but not confirmed yet so keeping my fingers crossed on this.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

New 2600 lumen self-contained light from Magicshine! I don't know anything about this other than what's in the linked site but optic treatment looks like an improvement over some of their past offerings.
Mole

Magicshine RAY-2600


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> *What's coming up! *I ordered a actual bike specific light from Astrolux (BL02) that I should have in about 3 weeks. Very inexpensive but looks to have a lot of nice features.
> Astrolux® BL02 XPG-3 1200lm 5Modes Dual Distance Beam Bike Light USB Rechargeable Flashlight 5000mAh Power Bank Front Light with Headlight Mount Bracket
> Mole


Good price, I've been happy with the stuff you've recommended from Astrolux (HL01&EC01) maybe I'll give it a try...


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> New 2600 lumen self-contained light from Magicshine! I don't know anything about this other than what's in the linked site but optic treatment looks like an improvement over some of their past offerings.
> Mole
> 
> Magicshine RAY-2600
> ...


Nice!! Seems like dual emitters version of RN1200/1500, albeit different optics and dual 18650, and now with type-c remote.

Remote sold separately though, $150 for unit only, when I choose remote + unit it would asking $158 instead.

And least finally more wired remote with type-c interface coming into the market, currently only Moon Meteor series using wired remote with type-c plug, so I wondering if Moon remote can do some sorts of control changing mode with this light.

Albeit not appropriate, I have sort of success controlling various light in the past using micro-usb remote from different manufacturers, e.g. controlling AMPP1100 with Ravemen / Gaciron remote, Lezyne 1300XXL with Fenix BC30R remote, etc.

Edit : I am sold with *individual up and down button* for controlling brightness, it's very frustrating dealing with cycling through all modes to get back in mode we need, especially with flashing mode included. AFAIK, only Nitecore BR35 Fenix and BC30R having this feature, glad Magicshine incorporating separate button for brightness control. Overlooked feature, but proved useful.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

patski said:


> Good price, I've been happy with the stuff you've recommended from Astrolux (HL01&EC01) maybe I'll give it a try...


The BL02 showed up in my mailbox yesterday and got a short ride with it tonight. It's a little different from your typical bike light but definitely worth the money (if it fits your needs). Storms are moving out of my area and looks like plenty of night ride/testing opportunities next week!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Albeit not appropriate, I have sort of success controlling various light in the past using micro-usb remote from different manufacturers, e.g. controlling AMPP1100 with Ravemen / Gaciron remote, Lezyne 1300XXL with Fenix BC30R remote, etc.


Interchangeability of remotes would be an interesting option. Like mode buttons all the different remote buttons I've tried have a unique feel. Other differences include cord length/quality + price so would be nice to be able to pick the one you like best (in an ideal world). As far as what I'm most excited about the new Ray2600 its the optic treatment. Nothing really new or innovative but compared to the Allty 2000 the use of an elliptical style wide beam should provide better light management (increased light intensity in the useful vertical field of vision, less light in the foreground resulting in less reflective glare at higher settings, less wasted top spill light, and an effective low glare for oncoming traffic option). If the Ray retains all the RN light series really good features adding the potential optic improvements shoud make a pretty good light.
Mole


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## TrailTom (Sep 20, 2020)

2600 looks promising for sure


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Thanks to MRMOLE regarding Ray 2600 spoiler, new light should on the way for testing 

$158 for head unit + remote, I getting some saving thanks to free shipping option + extra $10 discount code (posted in light deal threads)









This is my first time I buy directly from Magicshine, I read some buyers review about getting tax refunds, pretty interesting huh? Dunno what kinds of methods they used for refunding procedure.

I had less experienced with Magicshine products in past, the only MS light I have is only discontinued Monteer 1400.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Thanks to MRMOLE regarding Ray 2600 spoiler, new light should on the way for testing


This light looks llike it has a lot of potential. I definitely like the up/down feature of the lightheads mode button but am wondering if that feature is retained with the remote?
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> This light looks llike it has a lot of potential. I definitely like the up/down feature of the lightheads mode button but am wondering if that feature is retained with the remote?
> Mole


In my experience with similarly fashion lights, the up and down doesn't retain in remote, it's just scrolling through brightness as usual. I am using Fenix BC30R as reference.

Thankfully, Fenix BC30R brightness mode is not lengthy and doesn't have a disco mode sneaking.

But it's not hurting for me to leave my handlebars once just to reduce output with a single push of a button when climbing instead of multiple scrolling clicks.










In my opinion, this makes remote operation less fully functional, it's just serve as additional extra control. I will confirm RAY 2600 remote behavior once they arrive in my mailbox.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Thanks to MRMOLE regarding Ray 2600 spoiler, new light should on the way for testing
> 
> $158 for head unit + remote, I getting some saving thanks to free shipping option + extra $10 discount code (posted in light deal threads)
> View attachment 1940753
> ...


Did you get this light yet or have an ETA? I been riding with that Astrolux BL02 that has a similar optic treatment and have been super happy with the beam pattern so a little extra curious about the Ray. I also noticed on the MS website they now show a RN3000. Many of the specs. were absent but it did show the use of 21700 batteries and quite a bit of extra throw over the Ray. I tried the chat feature to see what I could find out but no reply after an hour so gave up. I may try my marketing contact. I get the impression they're not going to send me any more review lights but maybe can find out UI and preset output/runtime level information.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Did you get this light yet or have an ETA?


Ordered July 27th, shipped July 28th. Unfortunately my last tracking status says :

_"HK, Hand over to airline, 2021-07-31"_

I have another shipment directly from Ravemen too, which use the same courier service (4PX) like MS used. Ravemen stated it will take at least 1 month to arrive. So with given figure, my best guesstimate ETA is 2 weeks remaining. Well, the realm of free shipping which I can't complain for. But if I have choice, I prefer $13 paid economic shipping from FedEx or DHL for better transparency of tracking updates.



MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1942149


Oh gosh, another twin emitters from MS 

The battery capacity difference between Ray 2600 and Ray 3000 is staggering for $10 difference !! But in exchange :

Lack of up and down brightness control
Giving up type-c wired remote, (although I still can't confirm the effectiveness when used with Ray 2600)
No new optics, likely carried over from single emitter RN series (literally dual RN1500 merged into one body)
If given battery specs is accurate, assumed is 3.6V we can expect whopping 36 Wh, with this amount of capacity, power bank feature is starting to make sense given the ample of more juice, albeit I am preferring those powers solely just for light itself.
Different LED used, maybe ?












MRMOLE said:


> I get the impression they're not going to send me any more review lights but maybe can find out UI and preset output/runtime level information.


I still have unused discount code from MS from Ray 2600 order. But hey, I can put them to good use for tasting Ray 3000  (waiting Ray 2600 to arrived first off course)



MRMOLE said:


> I been riding with that Astrolux BL02 that has a similar optic treatment and have been super happy with the beam pattern so a little extra curious about the Ray


That's great, it's working well. I sold with the yellow beam mode, it's almost like Moon Meteor Dual main feature in a more economical package.

I found similar light with quad emitter and exact single 21700 dual emitter one, same body and features just under different names. Usually I checked the critical ★ 1 reviews first, but it turns surprisingly well, the beam pattern of user shot on reviews seems legit. Maybe I will bite one of them, but for now I am still getting my hand full testing recent lights.

But I have concern with Ray 3000, with dual 21700, *it must be heavy (279 gram on MS site)*

As reference, dual 21700 cells light I have is Ravemen PR2400 at 284 grams. Ravemen is beefing up their standard solid mounting to more thicker plate to mitigate weight issue.

The most lightweight dual 21700 cells currently is Outbound Trail EVO which encompasses my wish list with magnesium body.

Garmin quarter mounts are okay for sub or below 200 gram lights, hence I am not mind for 190 gram of Ray 2600, but I am still not fully trusting it for all time use, because in the lightweight option like RN1500, is still failing. Thankfully MS decide to put removable mounting plate so I can replace with other mounting system of choice.



















This happened after several days used. With heavier Ray3000, it will put too much stress on quarter mount little tabs which prone to breaking.

With given experiences, I will convert them into the Ravemen interface so they can share ABM08 Ravemen mount. It's also for ease able to slide in slide out different brands of light within seconds.

edit : fixing typos


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

*Update : So much Ray Series !!*

Besides the top end model Ray 2600, MS added so many new dual emitters setup Ray lineups, ranging from a 800 to 2100 lumens. Core features mostly same, newer lens, type-c fast charging, wired remote compatible and up down brightness switch.

Price as follow :

Ray 800 is 80 SGD (about 60 USD)
Ray 1100 is 99 SGD (about 73 USD)
Ray 1600 is 119 SGD (about 87 USD)
Ray 2100 is 179 SGD (about 132 USD)

The remaining questions as usual, I didn't think all of those use same LEDs, especially the smaller Ray 800 one despite they shared same optics.

It seems Ravemen have serious competition on their PR series. They have quite similar model spanning, PR800, PR900, PR1200, PR1600 which shared similar lens configuration.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> *Update : So much Ray Series !!*
> 
> Besides the top end model Ray 2600, MS added so many new dual emitters setup Ray lineups, ranging from a 800 to 2100 lumens. Core features mostly same, newer lens, type-c fast charging, wired remote compatible and up down brightness switch.
> 
> ...


First, do you have a link to information on the 800 - 2100 Ray lights? I can't find anything but the 2600 on any of the MS sites I know of and am very curious to see the specs. for mode levels (output/runtime) and battery capacities (thank you for the prices!). I have a couple of concerns (heat management/output consistency) with the 2600 from looking at its specs. that would be minimized or eliminated with lower current requirements of the less powerful lights. Those issues should also be addressed by the larger heat-sink mass and higher battery capacity of the RN3000 (curious if they will make lower output dual beam RN's?). As mentioned before the RN3000 also has a much higher CD value/throw distance but if its optics are identical to the current single emitter RN's I think I will prefer the Ray's beam pattern (plus all its extra cool features). There's certainly going to be a lot of options to consider when trying to pick the light that best suits the individual needs of each rider (even if your only looking at MS lights)!!!
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> First, do you have a link to information on the 800 - 2100 Ray lights? I can't find anything but the 2600 on any of the MS sites I know of and am very curious to see the specs


I got that from local Singapore Lazada seller page (Amazon like e-commerce service, but only for Eastern Asia market)



https://www.lazada.sg/magicshine/



There's additional data and specs like battery and beam candela data if you want to look at. You might need browse several pages manually to find Ray listing above.

Probably MS will added them gradually to their main global / US site catalog shortly.



MRMOLE said:


> There's certainly going to be a lot of options to consider when trying to pick the light that best suits the individual needs of each rider (even if your only looking at MS lights)!!!
> Mole


Yes ! This is very good for riders looking for tailored light which matched for their needs and budget. If pricing data regionally accurate, I think Ray 1600 is the sweet spot between price and brightness.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

The eco modes make these really attractive as always on backup lights, 50 lm for 37 hours.

The lower end models don't list USB-C recharging (power bank) unfortunately, only the brighter more expensive ones.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Probably MS will added them gradually to their main global / US site catalog shortly.


 I'm a little skeptical MS will want to offer a variety of similar output and priced lights in differing layouts (for the US market). I guess we'll have to just wait and see.



zapotec said:


> Yes ! This is very good for riders looking for tailored light which matched for their needs and budget. If pricing data regionally accurate, I think Ray 1600 is the sweet spot between price and brightness.


Without actually trying them out the 1600 looks like the best fit for my needs and best value. Also think that output level would best match the heat-sink mass and battery capacity specifications.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> I'm a little skeptical MS will want to offer a variety of similar output and priced lights in differing layouts (for the US market). I guess we'll have to just wait and see.


Just in case they not officially available in US, should be possible make an appearance on AliExpress just in case anyone need smaller output model (in hassle of a month shipment), like domestic Ravemen N500/N900.



MRMOLE said:


> Without actually trying them out the 1600 looks like the best fit for my needs and best value. Also think that output level would best match the heat-sink mass and battery capacity specifications.
> Mole


Regarding thermal on top model Ray 2100/2600, I got feeling it would behave like older Monteer siblings, which burst amount of full lumens in first time, then gradually dimmed, make it practically like 1800-2000 lumens light, but we'll see.

Ray series are lack of aggressive cooling fin, with almost smooth housing I am aware heat management on top model would not as effective on the lower models.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Regarding thermal on top model Ray 2100/2600, I got feeling it would behave like older Monteer siblings, which burst amount of full lumens in first time, then gradually dimmed, make it practically like 1800-2000 lumens light, but we'll see.
> 
> Ray series are lack of aggressive cooling fin, with almost smooth housing I am aware heat management on top model would not as effective on the lower models.












Looking at the runtimes differences between high and med. are a pretty good indication actual output in high is far less consistent than med. With 50% of high's output the med. mode should run at least twice as long (note difference med. and low) as high. The output of high and med. could be much closer than claimed but I think more likely they start out close to their output claims and high just degrades much faster. In the end at the output levels the Ray 2600 should produce the dimming will probably not be very noticeable though (you'll have to let us know).

I finally got an email from MS about the questions I asked on their chat feature regarding the RN3000. Mode differences seem a lot more consistent compared to the Ray but I still suspect there to be some degrading output to be programmed in the light (similar to the RN1500 whould be my guess). Here's the mode output/runtime figures they sent for dual emitter operation. They also sent figures for L & R emitters separately which would indicate the possibility of running them that way but I'm not sure why you'd want to.

Working gear: energy-saving low-end mid-range high-end
Light flux: 375LM 750LM 1500LM 3000LM
Actual luminous flux: 325-420LM 600-800LM 1350-1650LM 2700-3300LM
Lighting time: 31:30:30 13:30:00 5:40:00 2:10:00

Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Looking at the runtimes differences between high and med. are a pretty good indication actual output in high is far less consistent than med. With 50% of high's output the med. mode should run at least twice as long (note difference med. and low) as high. The output of high and med. could be much closer than claimed but I think more likely they start out close to their output claims and high just degrades much faster. In the end at the output levels the Ray 2600 should produce the dimming will probably not be very noticeable though (you'll have to let us know).
> 
> Mole


Some update, my parcel contained Ray 2600 already arrived, but currently still held by customs. Well, at least it came sooner, waiting for customs issuing documents for tax and handling fee.



MRMOLE said:


> They also sent figures for L & R emitters separately which would indicate the possibility of running them that way but I'm not sure why you'd want to.
> 
> Working gear: energy-saving low-end mid-range high-end
> Light flux: 375LM 750LM 1500LM 3000LM
> ...


So MS stated RN3000 can run as glorified RN1500 huh, running with just single emitter only but with twice of weight. I would use RN1500 from the very beginning if I want to. Well, maybe they offered that feature as versatility if riders need some juice saving or prefer running one bulb only.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

*Another MS Ray Variant / Domestic Chinese version*

MS never failed to make me amused by how much amount of SKUs of their Ray variant 
This time is specifically for domestic market, nevertheless it's available on AliExpress so available for any global buyers.

*DA1500*








62.35US $ 52% OFF|Magicshine Da1500 Bicycle Headlight Mtb Road Bike Bright Light Flashlight Waterproof Usb Rechargeable 1500 Lumens Led Cycling - Bicycle Lights - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com




5200 mAh, 187 grams, 91 USD

*DA2000*








71.95US $ 55% OFF|Magicshine Da2000 Bicycle Headlight Mtb Road Bike Bright Light Flashlight Waterproof Usb Rechargeable 2000 Lumens Led Cycling - Bicycle Lights - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com




6700 mAh, 190 grams, 112 USD

All multiple SKUs we have so far, sorted by lumen levels

Ray 800 is about* 60 USD*
Ray 1100 is about *73 USD*
DA1500 is* 91 USD* (AliExpress price)
Ray 1600 is about *87 USD*
DA2000 is *112* (AliExpress price)
Ray 2100 is about *132 USD*
Ray 2600 is *145 USD* (confirmed official MS website price)
The price gap between DA1500 and Ray 1600 seems odd, but keep in mind they marketed differently, so not quite apple to apple.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Oooh. Look what we found at REI today .


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Oooh. Look what we found at REI today .
> 
> View attachment 1942843


I was starting to to think they'd never release any of these for sale. I wonder why it took soooo long? Very interested to hear what you think of it!
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> I was starting to to think they'd never release any of these for sale. I wonder why it took soooo long? Very interested to hear what you think of it!
> Mole


I mean, tbh... there won't be a ton of positives, especially this is a 100% direct competitor to Evo. However some things we figured out quick:

40 minute runtime on "boost", single cell 21700. Same reflector bowl optic since 2006-ish, harsh hotspot and strong cutoff on the edges, same circular beam pattern as always. It has USB-C now instead of a proprietary connector, and surprisingly can do pass-through charging. However the port was not designed for it to be used while in-use, as you can see in the picture, and the included USB cable is only 18" long. Can only charge at 10W maximum.

It is a genuine CREE XHP70.2, however its laying crooked on the reflector bowl, interesting to note.

We are waiting to get our hands on the lower power versions, but the sheer size of it for a single cell 21700 is pretty nuts. As can see it's almost as long as 3 Evo's, same height, and almost the same weight but Evo has two 21700 cells, actual 2200 lumen solid output for nearly 2 hours, NR does come in lighter by like 20-30g.

We will have a video comparison up soon since we know people will be searching for some information for this light. Priced identically to Evo so we are thrilled to show off what we can offer.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Outbound said:


> I mean, tbh... there won't be a ton of positives, especially this is a 100% direct competitor to Evo. However some things we figured out quick:
> 
> 40 minute runtime on "boost", single cell 21700. Same reflector bowl optic since 2006-ish, harsh hotspot and strong cutoff on the edges, same circular beam pattern as always. It has USB-C now instead of a proprietary connector, and surprisingly can do pass-through charging. However the port was not designed for it to be used while in-use, as you can see in the picture, and the included USB cable is only 18" long. Can only charge at 10W maximum.


I didn't think it's a serious threat for your Trail Evo despite the same price, it's still lagging behind in design and runtime. Typical NR "boost" only last for 40 minutes...just like NR 1800, 45 minutes boost.

Yes, they added some wireless tech, and finally...revised the lame barrel plug to USB-C, but still not matching in terms of total value compared with Evo, not mentioning form factor (very long for my taste) and generic bowl lens configuration. One step forward, two steps backwards.



Outbound said:


> It is a genuine CREE XHP70.2, however its laying crooked on the reflector bowl, interesting to note.


It this some kind of QC issue? Not only crooked, but not aligned as well...even my cheapo XHP70.2 based light is laying good.










Speaking of XHP 70.2, this bulb has so much potential, but unfortunately no makers take seriously for designing great optics for size of this chip for dedicated bike light. Most of XHP70.2 reflector derived from their torch cousin, and NR design for XHP70.2 is not revolutionary either.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

zapotec said:


> I didn't think it's a serious threat for your Trail Evo despite the same price, it's still lagging behind in design and runtime. Typical NR "boost" only last for 40 minutes...just like NR 1800, 45 minutes boost.
> 
> Yes, they added some wireless tech, and finally...revised the lame barrel plug to USB-C, but still not matching in terms of total value compared with Evo, not mentioning form factor (very long for my taste) and generic bowl lens configuration. One step forward, two steps backwards.
> 
> ...


A threat in actual performance/quality/runtime? No, but it's the light that will be pushed by major publications for "most recommended" because of affiliate links, advertising, etc. based on the NR brand name. So we want to be sure that people understand the differences.

Speaking of runtime, we just ran a full test under fans and the light goes from 2500 lumens to 1500 lumens in SEVEN minutes, and then from 1500 to 1250 in 30 minutes, culminating in jump down to 5% output that'll last for an additional 20 minutes. So meeting that stupid FL1 standard of "2500 lumens for 3 minutes" and then rocketing down to 60% of it's output to stay stable for a little bit before dying. Will have some published charts later.

One thing to note about the "wireless tech". It is designed to only be paired with their Omega 300 Evo tail light ($60) only and requires an additional $50 wireless remote on top of it (NiteRider NiteLink Wireless Remote Switch) we haven't been able to purchase it yet to tear down as that seems to be delayed too.

As for QC, it's hard to say. It is explicitly made in China, and part of why we refuse to do final assembly overseas. The QC is very hard to control unless you had dedicated people on the ground looking over everyone's shoulders. However good QC is possible overseas, just takes a lot of work.

I personally don't like the XHP70.2, and the reason that no one makes a "great optic" for it is because it is so hard to do. The XHP is designed more for things like high-bay lights or street lamps where you can have a massive optic that takes advantage of the size and lumen output, or just need lots of lumens and a simple diffuse output. There is just no way to make a properly controllable optic for a chip that is nearly a quarter inch wide and have it be compact. So the best bet is to just use the natural output curve of the chip and call it a day as a flood-like light if you don't want harsh hotspots or sharp cutoff edges, aka street lamps or warehouse lighting.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Outbound said:


> No, but it's the light that will be pushed by major publications for "most recommended" because of affiliate links, advertising, etc. based on the NR brand name.


Out of curiosity, is the NR so highly regarded in the US? Coming from the Asian region perspective, only a few cyclists aware NR brands, and the most of local distributors only carrying the low powered single emitter Lumina. I know NR is old player, but I didn't expect it would take so much major publication.

Before Chinese light floods the market, the most highly regarded lights are usually CATEYE brands, but they also very lagged behind in today's standard. No USB-C, malleable self contained build quality, no new high output model since 2017, only worth if on the sale, but not for full retail price.

Lights from Lezyne, Moon, Ravemen and Magicshine are starting to become a new norm for the majority of cyclists here because CATEYE is simply too lazy. Dunno why the big brands are so lack of innovation...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

zapotec said:


> Out of curiosity, is the NR so highly regarded in the US? Coming from the Asian region perspective, only a few cyclists aware NR brands, and the most of local distributors only carrying the low powered single emitter Lumina. I know NR is old player, but I didn't expect it would take so much major publication.
> 
> Before Chinese light floods the market, the most highly regarded lights are usually CATEYE brands, but they also very lagged behind in today's standard. No USB-C, malleable self contained build quality, no new high output model since 2017, only worth if on the sale, but not for full retail price.
> 
> Lights from Lezyne, Moon, Ravemen and Magicshine are starting to become a new norm for the majority of cyclists here because CATEYE is simply too lazy. Dunno why the big brands are so lack of innovation...


In the US, the major brands found in bike shops and distributors is definitely Niterider and Lights & Motion. You'll see cateye occasionally but they certainly focus more on the bike computers.

The US market is interesting for sure, and part of why I was willing to jump in with both feet and establish OL after a lot of research. Basically the longstanding "leaders" of NR and L&M were built on the distributor model because that is just how you always had to sell bike accessories back in the 90's and 2000's. Entire product lineup is built and developed based on what kind of initial orders the wholesalers will order because you are acting as a supplier and manufacturer, not so much a retailer. It is also a very regionalized type of product. When you compare things like phones, it's a truly nearly homogenous worldwide presence for something like an iPhone. However with bike lights there are definitely 3 distinct regions. North America, Europe, and Asia. Each one with their own established local leaders.

For example, in Europe, B&M, Supernova, Lupine, etc. are established leaders there, but have next to zero presence in the USA. Obviously on niche forums like this people are aware of them, but go to a local bike race and look around at what people are using, and its almost exclusively L&M and NR, with a bunch of random amazon/ebay stuff sprinkled in. The local distributors are usually guys working out of their homes (such as Lupine NA) so there isn't a lot of focus on marketing. So when we are developing and thinking about the future, our goal is to establish ourselves as a leader in the NA market first, and then branch out if we ever want to. Things such as duties, taxes, customs, restrictions, etc. make expanding into other countries quite painful. Europe especially has a very tightly controlled bike accessories market with far more regulations and import tarriffs.

I'd say that magicshine is definitely establishing themselves in the US, but still seen strongly as a "cheap chinese alternative" with expectations that the specs won't be accurate. However they are definitely getting better and keeping a close eye on what they develop and iterate with. Rumor was that L&M was thinking of selling off their bike light division before covid hit, and focus exclusively on high power studio lighting and camera lighting for their professional cinema division, but I'm guessing they were extremely glad they didn't do that when covid hit and all film production ground to a halt, and bike sales went through the roof. But seems they aren't focused on developing stuff for bikes anymore.

NR I am assuming is mostly just coasting. Been around for over 30 years, have clearly established a profitable business, some businesses get to a point where they are happy with cash flow, and don't feel like they have to relentlessly innovate and can coast on their brand name for a while, one of the joys of having a privately owned business that isn't bosltered by greedy VC investors who want growth or die. Or maybe they have something big under their sleeves, who knows. I certainly hope that we'll be around in 30 years and get to enjoy a successful business doing what we love just like they have, it's a bright spot in a sea of lighting companies that have come and gone in the span of several years so I certainly have to tip my hat to that and have to figure out what they've done right to establish that.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Speaking of runtime, we just ran a full test under fans and the light goes from 2500 lumens to 1500 lumens in SEVEN minutes, and then from 1500 to 1250 in 30 minutes, culminating in jump down to 5% output that'll last for an additional 20 minutes. So meeting that stupid FL1 standard of "2500 lumens for 3 minutes" and then rocketing down to 60% of it's output to stay stable for a little bit before dying. Will have some published charts later.


Disappointing but predictable. Appreciate your input and looking forward to seeing the video and output charts (should be good for a laugh). 
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Outbound said:


> In the US, the major brands found in bike shops and distributors is definitely Niterider and Lights & Motion. You'll see cateye occasionally but they certainly focus more on the bike computers.
> 
> The US market is interesting for sure, and part of why I was willing to jump in with both feet and establish OL after a lot of research. Basically the longstanding "leaders" of NR and L&M were built on the distributor model because that is just how you always had to sell bike accessories back in the 90's and 2000's. Entire product lineup is built and developed based on what kind of initial orders the wholesalers will order because you are acting as a supplier and manufacturer, not so much a retailer. It is also a very regionalized type of product. When you compare things like phones, it's a truly nearly homogenous worldwide presence for something like an iPhone. However with bike lights there are definitely 3 distinct regions. North America, Europe, and Asia. Each one with their own established local leaders.
> 
> ...


Pretty well said, especially about the long established "leaders" that's explains why NR presence is quite strong. Always interesting to hear directly from the guys working in real industry, for an average consumer like me this quite a new horizon.

Speaking of which, I am forgetting to mention Exposure, their presence seems like the UK version of NR, just with extra oomph with some tech inside their lights and great customer service. But somehow I can't stand their form factor for self contained, soda can light isn't my cup of tea.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Custom still not let me released Ray 2600 parcels, so I decided to pick this one for distracting myself. Thanks they available locally from the Gaciron distributor so I can avoid overseas import. Should be arriving tomorrow.










"Smart" bike light is starting to gain popularity in the bike light segment. I have a few tail lights from Gaciron and MS with smart mode advertised (auto on/off, vibration sensor and braking mode), and surprisingly they holds and working well for daily abuse for almost three years, so let's see how smart mode behave as main front light.

Looking from the optic, nothing special just like regular thrower with frosted side to soften beam edges. With an extra cutout lens, clearly this light intended for urban commuters.










Interestingly they also equipped with COB led which can act as tail light or DRL light in white (mount can be rotated), but for tail light, it seems they need to be mounted on helmet for effectively used.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Pretty well said, especially about the long established "leaders" that's explains why NR presence is quite strong.


Customer support, market presence, customer service, customer profile are the important components that make Niterider successful IMO. Their presents in the industry predates LED's and lithium batteries when $400 - $500 was the typical cost of a good (for that tech) bar setup and mostly only racers could justify the cost. From the beginning they always had very good race support and presence and established a name for themselves + got their foot in the shops doors since that's their racers wanted and of course those who could afford it wanted what the racers used. As tech improved + competition from Asia, prices for usable lights came down and expanded the market benefiting Niterider who by then was in pretty much every bike ship in the US. As commuter lights improved past the "be seen" point and unit costs continued to fall this greatly expanded the market to more recreational riders who had less demanding performance standards but loved the Lumina's low cost, good reliability, and especially no questions fix or replace warranty + the fact any problems can be easily handled by your LBS. Lumina formula may not make sense when doing light evaluations but to the prolific number of lower powered Lumina owners (that I think are responsible for keeping NR profitable) it's probably the best option. Also easy to see why outside the US where most of these conditions apply to a lesser extent or not at all that the NR lights would be far less popular.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Surprisingly both of light arrived at the same time.

I was going to prepare for my taxes and duties, but somehow I am just charged for the handling fee only for five bucks. Dunno how MS managed to ship that way, so they claim for tax free is accurate.

*Packaging *

Both of them are quite using exquisite packaging. I didn't care about shiny box but in certain case they can help just in case for reselling or extra protection when shipping.



















Here's an example of Ravemen packaging, very rudimentary. It works but I am afraid just in case they handled by more spartan FedEx courier.










*Lens*

Until the dark come, no beam shot, but I tested to shine against wall. Gaciron is predictable, slightly narrow and far throw. Almost like CATEYE Volt 1600, very, very close. Ray 2600 is more balanced with flood and offer extra throw. Well, this is a new optic from MS unique for Ray series.










*Appearance
*
Sometimes stocks photos and marketing image don't tell the whole story. I was thinking Ray 2600 would be bulky, but it's very small for two cell self contained. As opposed I think Gaciron will be more compact, but in a person it's quite wide.










I put Ravemen PR1200 as comparison :










Both of them is aluminum unibody without visible bolts for internal access, totally sealed, preventing user from DIY repairs.

*Weight*

Ray 2600 is very lightweight. All systems, including wire remote and mount is only 222 grams.










Gaciron is asking for 266 grams for the whole.










*Features*

Both of them is categorized themselves as smart lights. But after fiddling awhile, overall I found Gaciron is more user friendly than Ray 2600. Mode choice is a pain for Ray 2600.

Both of them can switch to max brightness instantly with a double click / holding the remote button for Ray 2600.

Smart mode is working as intended on both models, but keep in mind it's just tested under stationary state, since I haven't ridden with them.

Gaciron have over-molded USB rubber cap to give extra weather protection when the remote is plugged. Good for this one.










Both of them featured removable mounting plate, which is good for anyone prefer to use their preferred mounting system. I checked bolt on MS is very easy to undo, and I discover MS didn't use any thread locker, so I put low strength Loctite 222 for extra insurance. Gaciron is using proper thread locker fluid now, good for them since in past, they quite evil put a super glue instead of thread locking fluid, causing unnecessary stripping screwdriver and screw itself.

*Early cons*

Ray 2600 emitted high pitch sound when maximum 2600 lumens mode, also my guts tell maximum brightness probably will drop very fast since it's lack of mass and cooling capacity for a such small enclosure.

Gaciron still using Micro-USB, probably because they want to retain remote capabilities, almost their existing lineup using same remote, so probably they didn't want to revise entire product lineup.

*More to come*

I am planning to do a ride with Ray 2600 first.

But I am still not convinced to use quarter mount with any self contained light anymore, so I am borrowing my CATEYE to Ravemen adapter to put temporarily on Ray 2600 since it's fit, just a bit bulky due CATEYE form factor. I will make a proper adapter for Ray 2600 later.










For Gaciron, this model quite showing improvement compared with their older self contained model, and have several unique features which make this light not just an another Chinese bike light. Priced similar like AMPP1100, so it's not quite cheap, and thankfully not a POS model.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

The Ray 2600 is definitely a nice looking light so hopefully it works equally well. Looking forward to a little ride feedback. I had sent a message to my MS marketing connection and heard back that the 2600 version is the only one they currently plan on supplying to the US which is too bad. I'll have to look to Banggood or Ali if I want one of the more stable (I think) operating models.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

So here is the page I threw together for the Evo vs Lumina Max 2500, let me know what you guys think:






Niterider Lumina Max vs Outbound Trail Evo | Outbound Lighting


An objective comparision of the new Niterider Lumina Max 2500 vs. the Outbound Lighting Trail Evo. Similar price, vastly different performance.




www.outboundlighting.com





I believe the video might be showing as private, as we are still finalizing the details on it. We are trying to be as objective as we can with as little bias (it's hard!) so let us know how these reviews are. We are thinking of putting together similar comparos with a few other established name brand lights that a lot of people cross-shop to provide some effective data. Instead of a typical "bike light engine" that just compares specs and a static beam picture.

Here is the runtime chart compared to Evo:










Surprisingly, the "high" mode for the 2500 Max is actually pretty much identical to our medium mode, except ours lasts.... a little longer.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Here is the runtime chart compared to Evo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great Post!!! Surprised to see the Lumina Max high mode has steady regulated output as this is not what you normally see with other NR lights. Output/Runtime results far inferior to your EVO and to a lesser extent NR's own Lumina 1800 but more importantly beam pattern of either of those lights a major upgrade compared to the Lumina Max.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> The Ray 2600 is definitely a nice looking light so hopefully it works equally well. Looking forward to a little ride feedback.
> Mole


No meaningful updates so far, due semi ghetto mounting, I haven't ridden on trail yet, but I have been cruising on the road. Very pleased with the new MS optic so far, I think is the most refined self contained lens from MS since Monteer 1400.

My complaint so far is high pitched sound in maximum brightness and I can't bear that for a long time, so most of the time I am ended up using two level brightness settings from the lowest. I am also leaving the pitching sound feedback on MS Ray 2600 review column, so people can more aware. Monteer 1400 is also pitching like this but not so intense compared with Ray 2600.

I will continue using this light for a while, I might use some kind of sports earphone without music just to block the annoying sound.



MRMOLE said:


> I'll have to look to Banggood or Ali if I want one of the more stable (I think) operating models.
> Mole


I think you might consider the DA series, looking for chart and general specs it almost same like Ray, just with minus 100 lumens penalty.

This is the cheapest seller I can find so far who offer DA series.








61.2US $ 28% OFF|Magicshine Da2500 Bicycle Headlight Mtb Road Bike Bright Light Flashlight Waterproof Usb Rechargeable 2500 Lumens Led Cycling - Bicycle Lights - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





DA series is also cheaper than Ray series. As comparison DA2500 is 119 USD while Ray2600 is 145 USD, at meager 100 lumens less I think that's won't make a difference in a real usage. For aiming the most stable model, I bet DA 1500 is the best choice IMO.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Outbound said:


> So here is the page I threw together for the Evo vs Lumina Max 2500, let me know what you guys think:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the report and runtime chart comparison.

I think your reviews are a fair, I didn't intend to dissing or badmouthing NR 2500 Max, but it was obviously disappointing results for 250 USD price tag perform like typical XHP70.2 based light out there. No offense. Any media or publication who highly rated NR 2500 Max might be questionable for their liabilities. IMO, I think it's better for NR refined and perfecting their old NR1800 since it was the more nicer beam pattern for trail use.

By the way, one of your paragraph on your review caught my attention.



> _It is designed to get centered and out front of the stem so that there is no lateral offset in the beam_


Pretty much you nailed it. It's a pet peeved of mine having off centered light, and I am always greeted by off centered cast shadow from my front tires with standard handlebar mounting, especially when riding 29" one.

To counter that issue, I am always mounting dual headlights with similar models, making it technically centered beam spread. Unless I am testing a new light for extracting data, my always to go setup is always dual mounted handlebar lights. I can confirm no longer having nasty off-centered wheels shadow anymore, just straight soft shadow and pleased to look at.

Twin headlight somehow is also better for a certain situation, e.g. for better DRL or for pushing the visibility when heavy downpour, and most of the time extending runtimes because high mode isn't needed, while I know two of headlights doesn't means twice amounts of lumens, the difference is still noticeable, two of them in medium settings is powerful enough to tame most demanding twisty singletracks.

But it's coming at the expense of twice of weight, depending of headlight model I am using, doing basic task such lifting handlebar is required more effort. On the heavier light it even impossible to do just a simple bunny hop. Well, looking forward to order one of Trail Evo this November BF 
311 grams for total system, right? as opposed my usual setup ranging from 470 ~ 600 grams.

In my wildest dreams, I plan to sandwiched two Hangover using dual GoPro mount for handlebar use...but since we already have an EVO that's pretty moot point.

edit : typos


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

We agree, surprisingly the NR1800 is definitely the better "value" for the NR brands, however still just a double 18650. Honestly when they dropped the teaser images a year ago, I was shocked they were using the old Pro Race 1400 reflector bowl instead of the decent NR1800 optic for the Max 2500. Thought for sure this new one would use a larger version of the fluted TIR, but here we are.

We plan on getting some comparos of the 1800 with Evo, Seca 2500 with Evo, Urban with the Hangover, 1200 boost with hangover, etc. just to show that we aren't trying to be biased towards one particular company. Eventually get magicshine in the mix too. These things do take a while to produce.

Though hesitant a bit and waiting on approval from a lawyer about how to proceed. There really isn't too much precedent in the bike light industry for direct comparisons like this. Closest thing was the website that L&M maintains (wetestlights.com) but that's just a typical stats and beam shot comparo without too much discussion on things. Which then just leads to more peak-rating comparisons and not looking at the full picture. Just wanting to make sure we aren't going to be opening ourselves to some potential suit or something from an annoyed competitor claiming we are libeling or slandering a trademark.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> No meaningful updates so far, due semi ghetto mounting, I haven't ridden on trail yet, but I have been cruising on the road. Very pleased with the new MS optic so far, I think is the most refined self contained lens from MS since Monteer 1400.


Beam pattern is one of the major points of interest with this light so meaningful update for me, Looking forward to how it functions on trail!



zapotec said:


> I think you might consider the DA series, looking for chart and general specs it almost same like Ray, just with minus 100 lumens penalty.
> 
> This is the cheapest seller I can find so far who offer DA series.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the DA info update. Unfortunate that MS only offers the Ray 2600 here in the US. It just doesn't seem like the best blend of output/battery capacity/thermal resistance. DA 2000/1500 should be a better balanced light and a better fit for me so just need to decide between those two. For a higher output light I think the RN3000 layout with the Ray optic's would be something I'd be interested in.
Mole


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

alright guys, im looking to replace my lights this year, all my current ones have remote battery packs, which I'd like to get away from. So looking for a self contained light, but not sure what the best option is. On the helmet, what is light enough and has a good spot pattern? For the handle bars, I am having a hard time fining something that has the wide pattern. Ive read through this thread and some others, but not sure which direction to go? Looks like one of the Ravemen lights might be good for the bars...a little more than I want to spend however. Maybe the magic shine from aliexpress?

Edit: was also just looking to grab a NR900 for ~$60


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

gregers05 said:


> alright guys, im looking to replace my lights this year, all my current ones have remote battery packs, which I'd like to get away from. So looking for a self contained light, but not sure what the best option is. On the helmet, what is light enough and has a good spot pattern? For the handle bars, I am having a hard time fining something that has the wide pattern. Ive read through this thread and some others, but not sure which direction to go? Looks like one of the Ravemen lights might be good for the bars...a little more than I want to spend however. Maybe the magic shine from aliexpress?
> 
> Edit: was also just looking to grab a NR900 for ~$60


Best option? I might be biased, but this: Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover) | Outbound Lighting

But sounds like might be out of your budget?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gregers05 said:


> alright guys, im looking to replace my lights this year, all my current ones have remote battery packs, which I'd like to get away from. So looking for a self contained light, but not sure what the best option is. On the helmet, what is light enough and has a good spot pattern? For the handle bars, I am having a hard time fining something that has the wide pattern. Ive read through this thread and some others, but not sure which direction to go? Looks like one of the Ravemen lights might be good for the bars...a little more than I want to spend however. Maybe the magic shine from aliexpress?
> 
> Edit: was also just looking to grab a NR900 for ~$60


What is your preferred budget? Are you going to be using the lights for road/path or trails or both? How long of a runtime are you going to need? What are you currently using for lights and other than loosing the cables is there anything you'd like to improve with your next setup? Sharing this information with us will help us come up with some good options for your needs.
Mole


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

Outbound said:


> Best option? I might be biased, but this: Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover) | Outbound Lighting
> 
> But sounds like might be out of your budget?


Those are awesome and would love run one (or two)...but definitelyway out of my budget.



MRMOLE said:


> What is your preferred budget? Are you going to be using the lights for road/path or trails or both? How long of a runtime are you going to need? What are you currently using for lights and other than loosing the cables is there anything you'd like to improve with your next setup? Sharing this information with us will help us come up with some good options for your needs.
> Mole


Sorry, should have included all of that

Budget - I would like to keep it under 100
Use - Single track trails only
Runtime - usually rides last around 1.5 - 2 hours for night rides, however occasionally may go on some longer rides, so anything over 2 hrs would be nice.

Currently using a cheap single LED can type light off Amazon, with the external battery pack. Those work well for a $25-30 light but the batteries usually only last a season or two before they stop holding a full charge. I also would like to lose the external battery pack as it's an annoyance to worry about the wires and mounting the battery, or having to wear a camelback to put my helmet light battery in.

My helmet light is a yingding (Gemini duo clone) that had a huge thread in here a while back. Actually really like that light, but I'd Iike to ditch the battery pack.

Sofirn had caught my attention for their price and seem to have good reviews, however finding one light enough for helmet, and one with a wide beam for the bars is tough.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gregers05 said:


> My helmet light is a yingding (Gemini duo clone) that had a huge thread in here a while back. Actually really like that light, but I'd Iike to ditch the battery pack.


Did you ever consider using a high capacity 2 cell battery mounted to your helmet? For around $30 you could get one of these batteries that would power your Yinding for 2-3 hrs on high and everything would comfortably mount to your helmet. I'm mentioning this because you like your Yinding and it will outperform pretty much any self-contained light for helmet use in your price range.



















For the bars if your not in a big hurry you may find a sale on Ravemen lights. Including the battery purchase you should be able to find PR1200's inexpensive enough to keep your $100 budget. I also got a light on order that may interest you. I should have it in a couple of weeks if you can wait to find out what I think of it. Here's a link.
33.0US $ 49% OFF|NEWBOLER 6400mAh Bicycle Light USB Chargeable 1600 Lumen Bike Light 5V/2A Waterproof 4 LED Headlight Power Bank Bike Accessories|Bicycle Light| - AliExpress

Mole


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Did you ever consider using a high capacity 2 cell battery mounted to your helmet? For around $30 you could get one of these batteries that would power your Yinding for 2-3 hrs on high and everything would comfortably mount to your helmet. I'm mentioning this because you like your Yinding and it will outperform pretty much any self-contained light for helmet use in your price range.
> 
> View attachment 1943911
> 
> ...


I hadnt really put much thought into adding the batter pack to the helmet...not a bad idea. Which battery pack would you recommend? I might give that a go and see how I like it. I would really like to eliminate wires all together, but there might not be a good solution out there that I will be completely happy with...at least within my budget. I may give a sofrin a try and throw a wide angle lens on it. not sure quite yet. Will probably wait to see what you think of that light you have on order.

For the bars, I was also looking at one similar to what you have on order, but seems to be a smaller battery, but with LCD display. Upgraded 4 LED USB Rechargeable Bike Headlight 4000 Lumens Super Bright Bike Front Light 8 Modes Bicycle Light 5000mAh Runtime 12 Hours with LCD Power Display IP65 Waterproof Cycling Safety Flashlight

I may give a sofrin a try and throw a wide angle lens on it. not sure quite yet. Will probably wait to see what you think of that light you have on order.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gregers05 said:


> I hadnt really put much thought into adding the batter pack to the helmet...not a bad idea. Which battery pack would you recommend? I might give that a go and see how I like it. I would really like to eliminate wires all together, but there might not be a good solution out there that I will be completely happy with...at least within my budget. I may give a sofrin a try and throw a wide angle lens on it. not sure quite yet. Will probably wait to see what you think of that light you have on order.
> 
> For the bars, I was also looking at one similar to what you have on order, but seems to be a smaller battery, but with LCD display. Upgraded 4 LED USB Rechargeable Bike Headlight 4000 Lumens Super Bright Bike Front Light 8 Modes Bicycle Light 5000mAh Runtime 12 Hours with LCD Power Display IP65 Waterproof Cycling Safety Flashlight
> 
> I may give a sofrin a try and throw a wide angle lens on it. not sure quite yet. Will probably wait to see what you think of that light you have on order.


Rechargeable Protected Li-Ion Battery 7.4v 5Ah 50E for LED Bike Light Flashlight | eBay
I'm sure you'll be happy if you give the 2 cell battery on the helmet layout a try. Not really any disadvantages to even the best performance self-contained setup (Outbound Hangover) since it also requires a remote battery for 2hrs. of high mode operation. Remote battery can also be placed where best balanced plus large selection of very good helmet lightheads with much higher output ceiling's.

I'll definitely get right on testing the New Boler 1600 when it comes in. Tracking places it in country so hoping to get it sooner than expected. I would stay away from the Amazon light you linked. Single 5000mAh battery even if that claim is accurate (which is doubtful) wouldn't be near enough to power a 4000 lumen light.

Sofirn lights seem pretty good from my experience. Certainly can be made to function well as a cycling light. My problem with recommending this route is the mounting options I've tried and lack of very much usage experience.
The mounts I use have worked fine but I could easily see them not being robust enough for really rough trails.
Mole


----------



## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Beam pattern is one of the major points of interest with this light so meaningful update for me, Looking forward to how it functions on trail!


Yes me too, I stoked to be getting Ray2600 into the dirt, but so far I am just fooling around within the town with Ray2600. But finally I have the mounting issue sorted.

The solution is...*Cateye FlexTight™️ Bracket* !! Salvaged from Cateye VOLT 1700. With this proper bracket, I can whack the trail with so much more confident now !! Will start the maiden voyage with Ray2600 tonight.



















Weight wise, not so much penalty so this is okay. Never imagined that unused mount would come handy in situation like this.















As additional reports (on the road though) the wired remote is better suited for city use when riding environment is always changing, especially for temporary calling maximum burst for a short time using the wired remote. On several occasions I have successfully flashed a car driver who forgets dipping their headlight. I guess it's pretty uncomfortable for them starring 2600 lumens burned their eyes.

On the trail I guess I can forgo the remote, since up and down button are more practical.



MRMOLE said:


> Thanks for the DA info update. Unfortunate that MS only offers the Ray 2600 here in the US. It just doesn't seem like the best blend of output/battery capacity/thermal resistance. DA 2000/1500 should be a better balanced light and a better fit for me so just need to decide between those two. For a higher output light I think the RN3000 layout with the Ray optic's would be something I'd be interested in.
> Mole


I forget to added battery into the mix, DA2000 is have 3.6V 6700 mAh same as DA2500/Ray2600, with reduced output from DA2500/Ray2600 it seems have better burning times compared with 3.6V 5200 mAh DA1500.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> But finally I have the mounting issue sorted.
> 
> The solution is...*Cateye FlexTight™️ Bracket* !! Salvaged from Cateye VOLT 1700. With this proper bracket, I can whack the trail with so much more confident now !! Will start the maiden voyage with Ray2600 tonight.


Sucks that you had that mount failure problem and I understand not having any confidence after having a part fail but I'm wondering if this is a common problem or not. I've logged lots of miles with the MS Garmin style mounts with the only failure being the bar strap portion as a result of a crash. I've read of people not liking the mount (because it requires a tool) though mostly feedback has been positive but not heard of any other failures besides yours. Will definitely have to keep track of the customer comments on the new RN3000 as its almost 300g weight should put a lot of extra strain on the mount.



zapotec said:


> I forget to added battery into the mix, DA2000 is have 3.6V 6700 mAh same as DA2500/Ray2600, with reduced output from DA2500/Ray2600 it seems have better burning times compared with 3.6V 5200 mAh DA1500.


Battery capacity was/is the main reason I'm considering the 2000 over the 1500. Interesting looking at the runtime specs. on the Ray 2100 as it has the shortest claimed runtime for high mode of any of the larger battery capacity models (Ray 2100/2600, N2000/2500) which would indicate the best high mode output regulation (if you can trust the claims). I've got that Newboler 1600 coming and am trying to spend more time with each of my test lights so no hurry to make a decision.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Sucks that you had that mount failure problem and I understand not having any confidence after having a part fail but I'm wondering if this is a common problem or not. I've logged lots of miles with the MS Garmin style mounts with the only failure being the bar strap portion as a result of a crash. I've read of people not liking the mount (because it requires a tool) though mostly feedback has been positive but not heard of any other failures besides yours. Will definitely have to keep track of the customer comments on the new RN3000 as its almost 300g weight should put a lot of extra strain on the mount.


If this count, my broken tabs is actually Olight RN1500 one, not really MagicShine. I didn't know Olight and Magicshine RN1500 produced in same factory or not, AFAIK the original design is still owned by Magicshine, Olight is just put their brand.

Honestly, I quite like the new quarter mount from Magicshine, and very appreciating it to use existing standard interface. Contrary to the majority, I prefer secured mount with tool, because it's look cleaner on the bar and rock solid once fastened, so this is so welcoming. I find most of tool-less mount usually includes bulky knurled knob which is not my cup of tea.

For broken tabs, this is common for actual Garmin Edge itself, googling "broken garmin edge tabs" will show gazillion of broken tabs, but I think this is totally Garmin fault, not making replaceable nylon tabs and became unibody with main casing which made from ABS. Compared with Nylon, ABS is prone to brittle.

Maybe I am just unlucky, but it would good if you can confirm to Magicshine about the material used for their quarter mount plate on latest Ray/RN3000? If that's stuff made from Nylon/Glass bead filled Nylon, rest assured it would good to go.



MRMOLE said:


> Battery capacity was/is the main reason I'm considering the 2000 over the 1500. Interesting looking at the runtime specs. on the Ray 2100 as it has the shortest claimed runtime for high mode of any of the larger battery capacity models (Ray 2100/2600, N2000/2500) which would indicate the best high mode output regulation (if you can trust the claims). I've got that Newboler 1600 coming and am trying to spend more time with each of my test lights so no hurry to make a decision.
> Mole


I see, so the runtime is the reason here. Looking forward for the Newboler 1600 test, I am curious how amber it's advertised flood beam in a person and off course, thermal regulation compared with single cell Astrolux one.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> If this count, my broken tabs is actually Olight RN1500 one, not really MagicShine. I didn't know Olight and Magicshine RN1500 produced in same factory or not, AFAIK the original design is still owned by Magicshine, Olight is just put their brand.


The Olight bike lights are definitely just rebranded MS products. In fact I think they still have Magicshine labeling on them along with the Olight branding. Good thing about this is Olight regularly has flash sales @ 30-50% off but only includes select products for each sale so good to be on their notification list.
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

*Some RN3000 First Impression*

Since non of us or English speaking publications talking about RN3000 yet, I decide to browse various Chinese cycling forums to digging info about it, surprisingly RN3000 is very popular in their homeland country !!

This light is get reviewed by many entities both individuals and dedicated cycling blogs. I put one media which quite detailed data about RN3000. Google or Deepl translator machine required.





__





双灯伴两轮，陪我夜骑行：迈极炫RN3000车灯-精铸堂-大旗门


双灯伴两轮，陪我夜骑行：迈极炫RN3000车灯




www.daqimen.com





From the some of translation above, it will show RN3000 will decrease output after 3.5 minutes at maximum brightness, but keep in mind that's stationary test without bike movement.

Comparison with current single cell RN :



















While the beam shot doesn't tell the actual story, we can guesstimate how it would perform on the trail. From the profile, should be wide throw type beam.



















Some user is brave enough to soaked RN3000 diving into water without a problem. Creek and brook shouldn't be a problem.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> *Some RN3000 First Impression*
> 
> From the some of translation above, it will show RN3000 will decrease output after 3.5 minutes at maximum brightness, but keep in mind that's stationary test without bike movement.


Not surprising. 3-5 min. of high mode operation with no air flow will typically activate the thermal protection of most of the lights I've owned. In addition to that the RN1500 (RN3000 divided by 2) I tested had a pretty sharp drop in output after about 15 min. even when fan cooled. Since the RN3000 has twice the output and twice the battery capacity of the RN1500 but a longer high mode runtime I don't expect them to act exactly the same but would guess the RN3000 would degrade a higher % from its turn-on levels.



zapotec said:


> While the beam shot doesn't tell the actual story, we can guesstimate how it would perform on the trail. From the profile, should be wide throw type beam.


Beam shot does reinforce my suspicions that 3000 lumens is just too much light for that lens design. I own a 900, 1200, and 1500 RN and my favorite is the 900 because the two more powerful RN's have too much foreground light for my taste and logic says the 3000 will be even more overpowering. If you look just beyond the front wheel that's where the beam is at its brightest and that makes it harder to see as well beyond that point. The Ray's elliptical approach is probably just as effective a low top spill glare solution which also reduces the amount of light in the foreground and minimizes wasted light or just a more effective/efficient beam pattern. Would love to see MS abandon the RN lens design in favor of an elliptical lens like the Ray uses on all the RN series lights!!!
Mole


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

zapotec said:


> *Some RN3000 First Impression*
> 
> Since non of us or English speaking publications talking about RN3000 yet, I decide to browse various Chinese cycling forums to digging info about it, surprisingly RN3000 is very popular in their homeland country !!
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this. It's interesting to see how other countries review lights, and as you say, I rarely look at Chinese language web sites. It took me a while to realise that "Maijixuan" is probably a phonetic version of Magicshine.

Tim


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Newboler 1600 YQ100 *(Aliexpress)









Are these both Astrolux lights or Newboler's? I actually think someone else (Xanes?) made them and would happily rebrand similar products to whoever wanted to place an order. Packaging, mounts, build quality, unusual UI program are all the same but while I was expecting the 1600 to be less hard driven 4 emitter version of the BL02 this is not the case. Optic reflector size between the 2 lights is quite different giving the Newboler a much floodier beam and make it a better choice for trail use (especially with a helmet light) while the BL02 has about double the max lux that gives is a punchier (but narrower) beam and is the better of the two for road/path use.









This thread is about the Newboler 1600 though so I will focus on it from here on.

36.89US $ 49% OFF|NEWBOLER 6400mAh Bicycle Light USB Chargeable 1600 Lumen Bike Light IPX5 Waterproof LED Headlight as Power Bank Bike Accessories|Bicycle Light| - AliExpress

*First ride:*
This ride was pretty much a bust! My impression of the light was pretty much MEH but more so because my blood glucose levels were low the whole ride which unfortunately adversely effects my vision and the value of ride impressions. The light worked just fine and had a nice very wide beam but that's about all I feel comfortable saying at this point. Hopefull next ride I'll be in a little better shape!

*Output vs. Runtime test:

Special note about this test *I take lux readings by means of a bounce test to calculate lumen numbers which unfortunately results in much lower results for lights with very wide beams like the Newboler 1600 so don't be alarmed at the lower than claimed output as more than likely the actual lumen output is much closer to manufacturers claims. What's important to note is output consistency which is very good with this light. This is not a high max lux light though so wide beam with less intensity is what you should expect. I've only had a chance to do the highest mode setting so far and will at least add the next mode down when I get to it.










Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks Mole. So in the graph, what is the blue line versus the black line? I'm assuming the black line is the Newboler with all 4 LEDs on, is that correct? 

I just took mine outside for a quick test (handheld, just pointing around) and you're right, first impression is "meh". As I played with it more I realized it's pretty nice with all 4 LEDs on, especially on high. Definitely needs a real test on the bike. This might be a few weeks for me. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Thanks Mole. So in the graph, what is the blue line versus the black line? I'm assuming the black line is the Newboler with all 4 LEDs on, is that correct?
> 
> I just took mine outside for a quick test (handheld, just pointing around) and you're right, first impression is "meh". As I played with it more I realized it's pretty nice with all 4 LEDs on, especially on high. Definitely needs a real test on the bike. This might be a few weeks for me.
> 
> -Garry


Black line is all 4 led's. I'm surprised you didn't mention BT40 similarities. I had to get mine out to compare the 2 and from the spot on the wall it looked like the Newboler was a little wider. It actually was about 100 lux stronger on the bounce test (approx 80 lumen) but 4% less max lux. Very curious what you get with your sphere (if you still have it). 
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's actually been awhile since I've used my BT40s. I still have my original sphere, but don't trust it and don't have access to the Fenix calibration lights I used. I did start work on a better sphere, but lost interest and it's been sitting (life just keeps getting busier with other priorities). 

I will say the flood beam is a bit too rosy for my liking, but it does blend okay with the cool white "high beam". 
-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> It's actually been awhile since I've used my BT40s. I still have my original sphere, but don't trust it and don't have access to the Fenix calibration lights I used. I did start work on a better sphere, but lost interest and it's been sitting (life just keeps getting busier with other priorities).
> 
> I will say the flood beam is a bit too rosy for my liking, but it does blend okay with the cool white "high beam".
> -Garry


My comparative comments were referring to a stock BT40 (not one hotroded like yours). Since it doesn't sound like we'll be getting any sphere test results I looked up the listings Tigris posted and his sphere testing was getting about 200 more lumens than what I got with my bounce test for the BT40 which would put the Newboler output at approx. 1520. Lots of room for error here but I'm sure a lot closer to actual output than my chart. Blood sugar on last nights ride were much better and so was my opinion of the Newboler's performance. Beam pattern not ideal for the road/path stuff I did but definitely med. mode was more than adequate. 32mi. ride only left me 15% of the battery life left so I'm guessing like the BL02 Runtime med. will be around 3 hrs. It's been a long time since I used my BT40 but one difference I did notice is foreground reflective glare wasn't an issue with the Newboler. Now I need to find a good helmet light match so I can get some trail impressions. 
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Ceco 1200!


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Wombat said:


> Thanks for posting this. It's interesting to see how other countries review lights, and as you say, I rarely look at Chinese language web sites. It took me a while to realise that "Maijixuan" is probably a phonetic version of Magicshine.
> 
> Tim


Nice catch, just in case you interested with other trivial phonetic light brand stuff 

迈极炫 mai ji xuan (magicshine)
雷夫曼 rai fu man (ravemen)


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

After having a chance to ride with proper mount, I am able to put the Ray2600 on the trail. I am testing it on the semi dense trail with red soil to usual dry, rocky sandy with more open space.

*Ray 2600 Trail Impressions*

From I can describe on the terrain, the beam pattern is smooth, evenly spreading without blob. Kudos to MS for more refined new optic. From all all in one self contained released so far, I think this is the best compared with the previous model, such as Monteer 1400, Allty 2000, and RN series.

But in regards it have quite limited throw. It still throwing good, but I guess this caused by smoothing effect from the lens causing perceived less throw.

*All time high mode *

Pretty much as close as MS claim, I got around 1 hour 22 minutes. Since this test solely tested outdoor, my eyes must be adapted to light output. I still reckon output reduction must be happening to some degree, especially after knowing RN3000 behavior.

*Conclusion*



MRMOLE said:


> Would love to see MS abandon the RN lens design in favor of an elliptical lens like the Ray uses on all the RN series lights!!!
> Mole


I think lower output models are better if the goal is just for after the new lens. Pretty much agree with MRMOLE, if RN3000 have lens like ray series, it pretty much appreciated. Overall I am enjoying using this light. Depending the trail, for most of the time running medium or low with both emitter should be enough for my daily usage. I am running on the high solely just to sake of testing the MS claim.

Sorry I am not taken any beam shot, without realizing is already a morning.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

zapotec said:


> View attachment 1945088


From here in dusty norcal that looks like awesome dirt? Where?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> But in regards it have quite limited throw. It still throwing good, but I guess this caused by smoothing effect from the lens causing perceived less throw.


I'm surprised at the low cd/beam distance ratings for this light and how MS spec'd the optics to give these results. Wide smooth beam is good and expected with this setup but wondering what you think of the vertical height of the beams. Does it spread light far up into the trees? Does the spot optic look like a typical tight focused beam or is it fairly wide and how does the beam height of the elliptical optic compare to the spot optic? Actual use perforamce most important but also curious about technical aspects of beam.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Ceco 1200!
> 
> View attachment 1945021


Initially I thought the Ceco F1200 might be a rebranded Ranger 1200 but that didn't end up being the case. Physically the 1200 and 1000 Ceco lights are the same. Performance wise as expected the 1200's output is 200ish lumens stronger than the 1000 but surprisingly the max lux readings are only a few percent higher (so not much more throw). Even more surprising is in addition to extra output throughout the the entire high mode the 1200 also ran an extra 10 min. longer. Consistent extra 200 lumens + 10 extra min. of runtime requires quite a bit of extra battery energy in a apples to apples situation and IMO more than could be explained by differences in initial battery quality + the fact that it took and additional hour to fully charge the 1200 from a completely drained condition leads me to believe the 1200 has a higher capacity battery. Everything else about the lights is the same so with the extra lumen output, slightly better throw, *longer runtimes, s*ame weight and beam pattern the 1200 would be my choice between the two and well worth the extra $6!!! (If your in the market for an inexpensive self-contained helmet light).
Mole


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Does the spot optic look like a typical tight focused beam or is it fairly wide and how does the beam height of the elliptical optic compare to the spot optic? Actual use perforamce most important but also curious about technical aspects of beam.
> Mole


Sorry for being late getting back in touch lately, I have a bit headache with recent CRC transactions which caused frustration.

It's different from the typical tight focus beam, there's no intense hotspot like usual tight beam. There's still some light projected to tree canopy, but not as strong like typical tight beam which waste the lumens into the sky. What I can describe, I called it soft throw. Due the extra softer spread, this thrower doesn't throw long compared with true thrower with veinless clear lens.

I will take some wall beam shot later for better visualization. I will put together with typical tight focused beam too as comparison such as CatEye Volt 1600 / yesterday Gaciron.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

patski said:


> From here in dusty norcal that looks like awesome dirt? Where?


It was in Malang, Indonesia 

When summer, it's usually dry, but somehow I got the soil slightly damp, giving more extra fun sensations when suspensions contacts. At the peak, the soil is even more softer. DHF/DHR tires combo works best here.

In some occasion, it's quite foggy, the neutral or warmer light temperature is more suitable to reduce fog glaring.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

MRMOLE said:


> Ceco 1200!
> 
> View attachment 1945021


After some observation, CeCo is like very decent unit, but clearly not inferior copy. I wonder if they made under the same factory where Cygolite produced, since it's very similar build and sharing same mounting mechanism, only the lens which make them different apart. Just wondering though.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> It's different from the typical tight focus beam, there's no intense hotspot like usual tight beam. There's still some light projected to tree canopy, but not as strong like typical tight beam which waste the lumens into the sky. What I can describe, I called it soft throw. Due the extra softer spread, this thrower doesn't throw long compared with true thrower with veinless clear lens.
> 
> I will take some wall beam shot later for better visualization. I will put together with typical tight focused beam too as comparison such as CatEye Volt 1600 / yesterday Gaciron.


Wall shots would be excellent. Sounds to me like MS combined a wider spot with the elliptical to better blend the beam. Throw may be comparatively short for a light with this much output but actually sounds like an excellent off road beam. When you do the wall shots could you include separate ones of the elliptical and spot along with the combo beam?



zapotec said:


> After some observation, CeCo is like very decent unit, but clearly not inferior copy. I wonder if they made under the same factory where Cygolite produced, since it's very similar build and sharing same mounting mechanism, only the lens which make them different apart. Just wondering though.


Though the Ceco lights aren't identical enough that I would call them a Cygolite rebrand (like Olight/Magicshine) they are an excellent clone with comparative performance and quality that I suspect are made in the same factory. Cygolite's wider beams make them better bar lights but Ceco's omission of the beam shaping lens gives them better for helmet use additional throw and the consumer a choice of picking the right tool for the job.
Mole


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## MonolithNZ (Aug 26, 2021)

Hey there,
I'm on the hunt for a single cell, user replaceable 18650 handlebar light with a NW emitter for long distance bike packing trips. The Fenix BC21R V2 would be perfect for me but has been discontinued and I can't for the life of me manage to locate one anywhere. Does anybody have any suggestions for a suitable alternative? I wish more manufacturers still made lights with replaceable batteries!
Thanks


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ceco 1200 update*

Considering light intensity of both the 1200 and 1000 is almost identical I figured the 1200's approx. 20% higher lumen output had to be going somewhere so took both lights on last nights ride for a test. Easy to predict wider beam was the answer and another reason to pick the 1200 as a better value if your looking at these lights. I didn't notice the beam width difference when doing the output testing but it was quite obvious riding with the light. Works much better as a bar light now!!!!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*MAGICSHINE RAY2600 REVIEW*

I'm on the fence whether to get one of these lights but saw this review so here's a link.
Mole

https://thesweetcyclists.com/magicshine-ray-2600-bike-front-light-review/


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I picked up this new Olight flashlight mount so have been using the Sofirn SP33V3 for the last couple of nights. Very simple mount that can be rotated 90°. The mount looks like it was designed to work with 18650 sized lights but the larger 26650 compatible Sofirn seems fine with it too. As expected the provided rubber o-rings weren't up to the job but the pictured silicone ones have worked perfectly on the path/light trail routes I've taken it on so far. I'm skeptical the beam will be totally bounce free on rough trails but not all of my regular bike lights are either. Sofirn (with elliptical lens cover) worked great too providing a wide smooth beam with plenty of power and battery capacity for the 32 miles I rode last night.
Mole

OLIGHT Bike Mount Universal Flashlight Bike Lighting Mount Accessories FB-1 39mm | eBay


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> After having a chance to ride with proper mount, I am able to put the Ray2600 on the trail. I am testing it on the semi dense trail with red soil to usual dry, rocky sandy with more open space.
> 
> *Ray 2600 Trail Impressions*


Any new comments or updates you'd like to share on your Ray2600 or Ravemen PR2400? I'm surprised at how little information I've been able to find on these lights and that the PR2400 still hasn't shown up on any of the normal US Ravemen retailer sites. At the moment it looks like they may have the (huge) Southwest Regional Fall Bike Swap (GABA) in Tucson so I'm planning on selling off a bunch of my old test lights (and other misc. bike parts) so if I don't get any review light offers from MS or Ravemen I should have a good supply of discretionary cash for new MS and Ravemen (if I can find one) testers. PR2400 road.cc review linked below.
Mole

Ravemen PR2400 USB Rechargeable DuaLens Front Light with Remote


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well I finally got out on a ride with the Newboler 4-emitter self-contained light. My review will be quick and I'll let the videos speak for themselves. Videos are raw unedited.I was running the Newboler on the bars (of course) and my Nitefighter BT21 on my helmet, though I tell you in the video when I am and am not using the BT21. 

*Overall impressions:*

1) I don't like the rosy tint in the low/flood beam, though it blends okay with the cool white throw beam to look more natural.

2) I don't care for the UI, but got used to it fairly quickly. One thing I kept messing up was that when you are on a "single mode" whether low or high beam you press-n-hold to turn the light off, but when you are in "dual mode" you simply toggle the button through the modes to get to off (I kept pressing-n-holding and it was doing nothing). This is more of a "set and forget" kind of light - set it at the mode you want before starting a trail section.

3) I found this light to be a bit too dim, not a wide enough beam for trail riding, not enough throw, and definitely not good enough to use alone without a helmet mounted light. 

4) I did not use the light the entire night and not long enough to fully test runtime, but it looked like runtime was going okay based on the indicator. It was showing in the 80s when my ride was over and I had probably used it for +/- 30 minutes. 

5) Combined with my BT21 helmet light the combo was just "okay" in use. I would still have preferred a wider beam.

6) In the videos below you will see the change from High to Medium though in real world use I could hardly see any difference between High and Medium, meaning Medium is the preferred mode since you'll save some battery and have virtually the same output.

7) Newboler mount is pretty solild, but does NOT fit 35mm bars! I had to move mine over near my rear shifter and then rotate the light to the left one click (for those that don't know, the mount allows the light to rotate left and right and "clicks" into positions). This position and rotation worked out fairly well and wasn't as bad as it sounds or looks. 

*Videos:*

Demonstration of the Newboler's modes and outputs: 




Riding with Newboler Only on an overgrown trail that is tough to follow 




Riding with Newboler Only: 




Newboler on the bars with BT21 on the Helmet: 




Final Descent (which is windy, tight between trees, & fairly fast if you can see well), Newboler on the bars and BT21 on the helmet: 




(I have another video showing the Newboler on road and "r-e-d-n-e-c-k rail-trail", but it's corrupted and I need to see if the original can be re-downloaded.)

Photo of the Newboler not fitting on 35mm bars:









-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Nice post Gary! Reading it I just kept saying "Yep" over and over again as I read your comments. I do think the beam is actually wider than it feels. Mixing tints does fine for overall beam color but cooler spot tends to overpower the flood minimizing perceived beam width/output (IMO). The real disappointment here for me is the optic width and depth don't match the (what appears to be manufactured in the same place) Astrolux BL02. That lower rated stacked 2 emitter one wide light feels about as wide (perceived) when riding but with more throw.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mole, you wouldn't suggest I try the BL02 would you? I'm guessing differences would be negligible. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Mole, you wouldn't suggest I try the BL02 would you? I'm guessing differences would be negligible.
> 
> -Garry


The only thing you'd gain is longer throw. When I get a chance I'll take the two lights out with my BT21 to see how they work together. I think your correct that the warmer tint on the floods hurts perceived output and probably beam width as well.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Here is that last video that I mentioned above which I had to re-transfer. This is some road riding and r-e-d-n-e-c-k railtrail (abandoned rail road right-of-way with no tracks). It shows the various mode levels and I give some thoughts and opinions on the light (the Newboler 4-emitter bar light).






-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Here is that last video that I mentioned above which I had to re-transfer. This is some road riding and r-e-d-n-e-c-k railtrail (abandoned rail road right-of-way with no tracks). It shows the various mode levels and I give some thoughts and opinions on the light (the Newboler 4-emitter bar light).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks again Gary. I think the conditions in this video are probably more appropriate usage of this light than the single track from your previous post. Considering that though for that type of riding I would probably prefer the 2 emitter Astrolux or equivalent Newboler since the beam is almost as wide but with much better throw. "OK" is pretty much how I feel about the light too. Appropriate performance and quality for its cost but not much more. I'm assuming like mine your light came with a Gopro adapter which is the mounting method I'd choose for 35mm bars. Considering the lights performance I'm probabl not going to be using it with any of my 35mm bar bikes so happy with the standard mount. 

My opinion of the Astrolux BL02 has been much more positive. For road/path usage its beam is very effective (low very useful) combined with the large capacity battery gives very good runtimes (after last nights 32 mile ride it showed 45% battery charge left). UI program is wonky but easy to get used to. Stock mount better than most. Overall I consider this light a very good value.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mole,

I did not see a GoPro adapter included with my Newboler light. I'll check again, but pretty sure I didn't get one.

-Garry


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Ceco 1200!
> 
> View attachment 1945021


I just picked up 3 of these F1200's, based on this recommendation. Updates as I have them. I'm amazed how small and light these are, especially with the run times being reported on these. Its going to be really nice to not have a cord coming off my helmet running to a pack (in my pack). Thanks for all the good info you put out there on this forum.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mole, 
I was wrong, there was a GoPro adapter tucked way back in the supplied box. Sure made mounting to 35mm bars much nicer! I rode with the light again (all LEDs on & medium level) for about 10 miles of singletrack the other night and still felt it was lacking. Too much light up the trees which would be better suited reflected downward. I'm wondering if I could try some DC fix against the optics to make it more a flooder. I'm also tempted to disassemble the light and have a look inside. BTW - runtime on my use was great. I didn't even charge the light from my first ride with it, so I started with it displaying 76 and I think it was at 35 when I finished. 

Here's a pic of mounting using the GoPro mount:









And 









-


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Did you ever consider using a high capacity 2 cell battery mounted to your helmet? For around $30 you could get one of these batteries that would power your Yinding for 2-3 hrs on high and everything would comfortably mount to your helmet. I'm mentioning this because you like your Yinding and it will outperform pretty much any self-contained light for helmet use in your price range.
> 
> View attachment 1943911
> 
> ...


I ended up picking up this 2 cell battery you recommended...what are you using to secure the pack to the helmet?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gregers05 said:


> I ended up picking up this 2 cell battery you recommended...what are you using to secure the pack to the helmet?


Here's a link to the actual strap I use (because I already had it) but there are lots of similar options you can get through Amazon.
Mole

https://www.glowormlites.co.nz/product/velcro-spares/


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's a link to the actual strap I use (because I already had it) but there are lots of similar options you can get through Amazon.
> Mole
> 
> https://www.glowormlites.co.nz/product/velcro-spares/


cool thanks. I have some that are similar, I will give those a try.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

@zapotec


Any more updates on the MS2600?


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Rechargeable Protected Li-Ion Battery 7.4v 5Ah 50E for LED Bike Light Flashlight | eBay
> I'm sure you'll be happy if you give the 2 cell battery on the helmet layout a try. Not really any disadvantages to even the best performance self-contained setup (Outbound Hangover) since it also requires a remote battery for 2hrs. of high mode operation. Remote battery can also be placed where best balanced plus large selection of very good helmet lightheads with much higher output ceiling's.
> 
> I'll definitely get right on testing the New Boler 1600 when it comes in. Tracking places it in country so hoping to get it sooner than expected. I would stay away from the Amazon light you linked. Single 5000mAh battery even if that claim is accurate (which is doubtful) wouldn't be near enough to power a 4000 lumen light.
> ...


Random question...does this battery need a certain type of charger? I tried plugging it to various other chargers I use for my other batteries and this new pack is just dead. It has zero charge and the charger doesnt register that anything is plugged into it when I do plug it in. I took the wrapping off of the cells to check for loose connections and didnt see anything. Contacted seller and they arent being helpful, still trying to get them to send a replacement pack but its probably a lost cause.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gregers05 said:


> Random question...does this battery need a certain type of charger? I tried plugging it to various other chargers I use for my other batteries and this new pack is just dead. It has zero charge and the charger doesnt register that anything is plugged into it when I do plug it in. I took the wrapping off of the cells to check for loose connections and didnt see anything. Contacted seller and they arent being helpful, still trying to get them to send a replacement pack but its probably a lost cause.


Sounds like you just got a defective battery pack. All my chargers came with lith-ion battery packs and have had no charging issues with these batteries but would think any similar voltage charger with a compatible plug should work (all of mine say 8.4V @ 1.5A). Also please let us know the outcome of your quest for a warranty replacement battery.
Mole


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Sounds like you just got a defective battery pack. All my chargers came with lith-ion battery packs and have had no charging issues with these batteries but would think any similar voltage charger with a compatible plug should work (all of mine say 8.4V @ 1.5A). Also please let us know the outcome of your quest for a warranty replacement battery.
> Mole


Thanks, thats what I thought, but wanted to make sure before I blame the manufacturer. The seller finally go back to me overnight after I followed up again. Sounds like they didnt see my last email and miscommunication where it sounded like they said they had already shipped it out but didnt. They asked if I wanted a refund or replacement, so I just asked for a replacement again. Will update when/if I get it.


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## gregers05 (Jan 30, 2013)

MRMOLE said:


> Sounds like you just got a defective battery pack. All my chargers came with lith-ion battery packs and have had no charging issues with these batteries but would think any similar voltage charger with a compatible plug should work (all of mine say 8.4V @ 1.5A). Also please let us know the outcome of your quest for a warranty replacement battery.
> Mole


Well finally ended up getting a replacement battery early this week. Ended up trying it out on a night ride last night and was very happy with it. Used the velco strap to mount it on the helmet and stayed put the whole time. Dont think it ever got to a full charge before I used it, but after 1.5 hr ride on with my yingding on high, the light was still green. My previous battery pack would have definitely been on the red light or dead. Still no dice with the original battery, so to the trash it goes.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

@MRMOLE or anyone else… I just picked up the Bontrager ion pro rt to compare against the Ceco F1200. They both look so close to each other. Do you guys have a runtime/output chart on these for each of the modes so I can compare better? Price point is for sure a factor so the F1200 is leading in that category but I do want as steady output as possible in both high and medium (Bontrager - 800 lumens) or Medium high on F1200 (900 lumens).

Any insight would be helpful. 

Beam pattern also looks very very similiar between the 2 with the F1200 appearing to have a little more punch.

Thanks for the help and happy thanksgiving to everyone that is celebrating the holiday.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> @MRMOLE or anyone else… I just picked up the Bontrager ion pro rt to compare against the Ceco F1200. They both look so close to each other. Do you guys have a runtime/output chart on these for each of the modes so I can compare better? Price point is for sure a factor so the F1200 is leading in that category but I do want as steady output as possible in both high and medium (Bontrager - 800 lumens) or Medium high on F1200 (900 lumens).
> 
> Any insight would be helpful.
> 
> ...


Looking through my old digital tests I found hi/med. results for the Ceco and I know I did hi/med/low on the Ion but could only find high beam charts . I have a stack of written test results that I'll look through and hopefully find that info. It may take a while though so hopefully your not in a big hurry. As you mentioned both lights have a simple round beam that is better suited for helmet use but I think the Ion may be a little too heavy for that usage. Weight advantage the Ceco has comes at the expense of battery capacity and runtimes. Both good lights!
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Thanks Mole. Not in a crazy rush. Hopefully you are able to track down the info.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Thanks Mole. Not in a crazy rush. Hopefully you are able to track down the info.












No luck finding the med. mode results so had to retest that. Surprisingly the over 3 year old RT Pro still produced usable power a few minutes past its med. mode 3 hr. claimed runtime.
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1959364
> 
> 
> No luck finding the med. mode results so had to retest that. Surprisingly the over 3 year old RT Pro still produced usable power a few minutes past its med. mode 3 hr. claimed runtime.
> Mole


Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to retest. It is much appreciated!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

After testing so many lights I've come to the conclusion that there are a lot of good options to pick from when choosing the best light for your needs but sometimes it may be more important for me to point out lights I think you should avoid. With that as an introduction it's probably not hard to figure what direction this review is going and what I thought of the Blackburn Dayblazer overall! Seeing very little difference (other than the increased output claim) between the 1500 and the two 1100's I reviewed in the past my expectations were pretty low and while they did make one major improvement (light no longer overheats and/or activates the thermal protection way to early) most of the issues I had with the 1100's still exist. Starting with the strap mount that is a bit difficult to use and from looking at some of the new reviews likely to tear as one of my 1100 mounts did. Next output consistency is dismal! Runtimes do seem to match or better their claimed values but output degrades so rapidly IMO usable runtimes are not very good. UI is a single program so switching between modes requires you to visit all the forward and flash modes and a very stiff mode button makes that even more of a PITA. OK, I'm done with my "Buyer Bewhere" post on this light and doubtful you will see me post any additional content here (unless someone has a question or you see me in the comments section of some of the new reviews of this light). I combined the high/med. output data for the Dayblazer 1500 with the my Astrolux BL02 results since it has a similar over under layout though only cost a fraction of the Blackburn's retail.
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

That dayblazer 1500 along with many other lights don’t seem to hold a candle to the something like the Astrolux BL02 or BL03 that cost significantly less and produce close output numbers that appaer to be better regulated over the duration of the runtime in each mode.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> That dayblazer 1500 along with many other lights don’t seem to hold a candle to the something like the Astrolux BL02 or BL03 that cost significantly less and produce close output numbers that appaer to be better regulated over the duration of the runtime in each mode.


The BL02 was more of a random comparison choice though Bang for the buck the BL02 is pretty hard to beat. I have boxes full of other lights that like the BL02 that are pretty much better in almost every respect and it rubs me the wrong way that a major brand name like Blackburn would market a product that performs this poorly. It also bugged me that the 1100 some how managed to get decent reviews but understand that some of the review sites get revenue for doing the reviews and tend to sugarcoat to keep the cash flow going. Anyway I expected this wouldn't be a very good light so am not disappointed and figure in this case my money is better spent being able to warn other about this light instead of reviewing some other better performing light that probably got a good review from someone else.
Mole


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Picked up an Olight "BFL 1800". The light is made by Magicshine. It uses Olight's proprietary magnetic charger. The way it attaches to the bar requires an hex key which is included. The way the light attaches to the mount is pretty clever. The light body just snaps into the mount. Then press the blue lever to release. The light pic in the end is on the high mode.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> Picked up an Olight "BFL 1800". The light is made by Magicshine. It uses Olight's proprietary magnetic charger. The way it attaches to the bar requires an hex key which is included. The way the light attaches to the mount is pretty clever. The light body just snaps into the mount. Then press the blue lever to release. The light pic in the end is on the high mode.


I picked up a BFL 1800 a few days ago too (quick delivery). Has a nice powerful high mode with lots of throw! Only one very short ride so far + started with the output testing (looks good so far). Interesting that Magicshine doesn't market anything similar (at least that I know of) as all the other bike specific lights that Olight sells are co-branded existing MS products.
Mole


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I'm curious about both your opinions on the BFL 1800. Does it make a good bar light or is the beam a bit narrow?


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I picked up a BFL 1800 a few days ago too (quick delivery). Has a nice powerful high mode with lots of throw! Only one very short ride so far + started with the output testing (looks good so far). Interesting that Magicshine doesn't market anything similar (at least that I know of) as all the other bike specific lights that Olight sells are co-branded existing MS products.
> Mole


If it can hold its output (1000 lumens) in medium for the 3.5 claimed hours I think that would be great! It might make a good helmet self contained light option.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow! Beamshots looks nice! Interesting that they don't hide the fact that it's made by MagicShine. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> If it can hold its output (1000 lumens) in medium for the 3.5 claimed hours I think that would be great! It might make a good helmet self contained light option.


Unfortunately your going to be disappointed. It will however make an excellent high mode helmet light as long as you value a high cd measurement over long runtimes and light weight. Should be done with my indoor testing soon and will post a bit more then.
Mole


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

wayold said:


> I'm curious about both your opinions on the BFL 1800. Does it make a good bar light or is the beam a bit narrow?


The beam pattern looks to be pretty wide. I have a pitch black bike path that is two lanes. The beam is more than wide enough to light up both lanes. I have a couple other self contained lights (Serfas True 500 and a Rockbros BC-02T) and this one had the widest and farthest beam. 

I'm not sure how the mount would hold up if you plan on using it in wet weather though. The tightening screw is metal and so it the spring for the light release lever.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

garrybunk said:


> Wow! Beamshots looks nice! Interesting that they don't hide the fact that it's made by MagicShine.
> 
> -Garry


It could be that they just have some kind of agreement with Magicshine. Olight is also getting into knives and I believe that their knives are made by Kizer. They don't specify that its made by Kizer...but they don't try and hide it either.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

wayold said:


> I'm curious about both your opinions on the BFL 1800. Does it make a good bar light or is the beam a bit narrow?





wayold said:


> I'm curious about both your opinions on the BFL 1800. Does it make a good bar light or is the beam a bit narrow?


IMO even the best single emitter lights tend to be marginally effective bar floods. I still haven't but one short ride with the light but will update my opinion further as I get more time with it. Shining it on the wall compared to other singles I have it has better than average beam width but not as good as my Ravemen LR800, Cygolite Ranger 1400, modified Sofirn SP33, or Lumina 1200 (if I remember correctly). Throw on the other hand is better (by measurement) than any self-contained single I've tried.
Mole


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

There was a comment on Magicshine's Facebook group that addresses the relationship between Magicshine and Olight and the different products they carry:

From Magicshine Admin: 
Magicshine
"Olight is one of the distributors and business partners of Magicshine and we make customized products for Olight."

So it may very well be that the BFL 1800 is one of those special products made by Magicshine, but only for sale through Olight.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Lack of motivation may be keeping me from getting more actual use time with the BLF1800 but figured I could at least post the measurements I've gotten. Considering the battery capacity and output levels I'm quite happy with the performance of the top mode level. Consistent and stable output of the high mode means full power is a click or two away for almost the entire operation time. Unfortunately the output characteristics of the next to highest mode lack the same consistency offering med. high output levels for not much longer than the top mode and reducing output considerably in the name of extending runtimes. Low mode has similar output characteristics but clicking to med. when the output falls off transitions to an almost equal (approx. 700 lumen) level and extends the runtime to slightly over 4 hours before dropping to limp home output levels.

Low/Med./High main program preset pattern is a big plus along with the easy to find and use mode button that's typical for newer Magicshine lights. Replaceable differing length plastic strap mount fits any of the typical round bar size standards + a lot if non-round aero style road setups. I've not yet had the opportunity to do any rough ground testing but bar clamp/lighthead interface seems sold and matches ease of operation levels of the typical MS Garmin style mounting interface with the bonus of being much easier to mount/remove in tight mounting areas. Normal retail may seem a little high but Olight has lots of sales and even at retail it's far less than it's closest performing competitor the Bontrager RT Pro. will post more with more usage.
Mole










** I removed the plastic mount interface from the lighthead and it's a single screw mount so while I've not found a mount that would work with the stock mounting screw with the correct length screw it will work with Outbound/Lezyne/Vancbiker Gopro adapters for helmet mounting. Also the light functions normally with the charging cable attacheed to a powerbank so will be testing to see if charging on the fly is possible as it is on some of the usb-c MS lights. **


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Olight BLF1800 remote battery update*

Running the light hooked up to a remote battery works but didn't add as much additional time to the high mode as I expected + the remote battery recharged very quickly so I'm assuming the magnetic charge cable is the limiting factor (regular charging also seems slow). Light functioned perfectly though and operation temperatures were identical to what they normally measured. When I get a chance I'll try again in one of the lower modes to see if it uses more of the remote batteries charge capacity.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Olight BLF1800 Street/Path performance*

Slightly warmer weather motivated me to get back on the bike and resume testing on this this light. Similar to Magicshine's RN series lights it shares an easy to use and find mode button and low/med./high UI program that equates to a very pleasant ride experience. It also shares the high capacity (5000mAh) battery of the RN1500 which it needs to operate it's more powerful preset mode output levels. Where it does differ is in the beam pattern as the RN's are floody (for a single emitter light) with adequate throw and the BLF1800 is more of a wide spot with quite a bit more throw distance. In regards to beam pattern and output Bontrager's RT Pro is the closest match to the BLF1800 that I've tried in a single emitter light. Overall the Olight BLF1800 was very well suited to the 32mi. road/path ride I took it on last night and should end up being a very good choice for faster roadies because of it's high throw distances. Promising so far!
Mole


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

It seems Olight is now also selling a baby brother to the BFL1800. BFL900 at 130g may just be light enough make an OK helmet light, though unless they drop the price a bit I suspect the Ceco F1000/1200 remains a more compelling option.


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## paulworthington53 (12 mo ago)

I bought an Magicshine RM 3000. Within 2 rides the mount had broken. On smooth roads. Just fell off and bounced down the road. I guess the light is too heavy for the mount. 
Worst part is Magicshine UK refused to honour the warranty claiming that I crashed. Faults happen but not valuing your customer and refusing to sort it out is something else. 
Really bad service. I would avoid buying from them. 
I went back to 2 x fenix bc30 which are fine for me and come with a much better mount.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

paulworthington53 said:


> I bought an Magicshine RM 3000. Within 2 rides the mount had broken. On smooth roads. Just fell off and bounced down the road. I guess the light is too heavy for the mount.
> Worst part is Magicshine UK refused to honour the warranty claiming that I crashed. Faults happen but not valuing your customer and refusing to sort it out is something else.
> Really bad service. I would avoid buying from them.
> I went back to 2 x fenix bc30 which are fine for me and come with a much better mount.


I broke one of those mounts too (though is was from a crash) and have heard of a few other similar failures. Troubling the response you got from Magicshine. Usually the resulting damage from a crash will look a little different (larger deeper scrapes/gouges) than if the light just fell to the ground from a mount failure so maybe depending on how your light looks that may be a possible way to convince them of what actually happened (though you shouldn't have to). In the past they have sent me some lights to review and I still have a marketing contact there that I am going to forward your post to. It seemed to me that they were very interested in improving their reputation for quality and customer service so taking care of this for you and any others who have this problem would be to their benefit but I guess we'll see what happens. Does your light still work? Curious what broke on your mount (disk that attaches to the lighthead or the actual bar mount)?
Mole


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## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> *Reference reviews (Magicshine Allty 800 & RavemenLR800P) from road.cc*
> 
> road.cc reciently did reviews on a couple of the nicer lights I've tested (Magicshine Allty 800 & Ravemen LR800P) so here's links for reference.
> Mole
> ...


Can you point me to your test of the Allty 800?
Interested in the actual run times.
Search doesn't seem come up with your post.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

anga said:


> Can you point me to your test of the Allty 800?
> Interested in the actual run times.
> Search doesn't seem come up with your post.


I have an RN900 but have not had the chance to test the Allty 800. Not sure if there's actually any difference since they have the same specifications other than the max. claimed output. Runtimes for the 900 are 100 min. @ 1125 lunmens in high and 240 min. @ 625 lumens for all but the last approx. 10 min.where it dipped a bit (my measurements). If the 900 (that is not marketed in the US) is actually identical then you should get similar results or slightly longer runtimes if the 800's output is 100ish lumens lower as claimed. Can only guess at this without both lights but seems like a safe gamble to me. You can only order the 900 from China so takes longer for shipping but also considerably less expensive.
Mole

27.19US $ 49% OFF|Magicshine RN1500 Bicycle Headlight MTB Road Bike Bright Light Flashlight Waterproof USB Rechargeable 1500 Lumens LED Cycling|Bicycle Light| - AliExpress


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Rarely put Serfas in my radar and I didn’t realized they updating their E-Lume 2021 lineup, ranging from 350-1750 lumens.

Pricing wise, I think it’s quite tough to sell.
For an instance, the top end dual emitter model, e-Lume 1750 is around $150....and micro-usb for 2022 is kinda lame. Unless the optic has have something up their sleeve, it’s very hard to justify a purchase in the midst of competitive lightning market.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

and no info about: 
1) total lumen output
2) led
3) throw
4) beamshots

there is the possibility to make the return, but I don't like to buy without knowing what I am buying.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

zapotec said:


> Rarely put Serfas in my radar and I didn’t realized they updating their E-Lume 2021 lineup, ranging from 350-1750 lumens.
> 
> Pricing wise, I think it’s quite tough to sell.
> For an instance, the top end dual emitter model, e-Lume 1750 is around $150....and micro-usb for 2022 is kinda lame. Unless the optic has have something up their sleeve, it’s very hard to justify a purchase in the midst of competitive lightning market.


Agree this is not the best value for your money. Moon is the actual manufacturer of the Serfas lights. The Serfas 1750 appears to be a slightly higher output but less feature version of Moon's 1500 lumen Rigal Max which retails for just under $100.
Moon Rigel Max
Battery capacity is also fairly small (5200mAh) so considering output and runtime claims it's doubtful output consistency and/or actual runtimes will match listed claims. Warranty/replacement policy would actually be the most compelling reason to choose the Serfas for me compared to other similar output offerings (Magicshine, Ravemen, Lezyne).
Mole


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## Vihor (4 mo ago)

Hi, I’m new to off-road trail night riding and don’t have any experience with bike lights. 
Searching through reviews and forums I decided for a Sigma buster 700 for helmet use and am in between Lezyne Super Drive xxl1600 and Magicshine DA2500 for a bar light. Those two I can get for a similar price around 85 euros.
My rides usually consists of 1.5 hour climbing and half hour descending so I reckon that run times shouldn’t be an issue.
My concern regarding Lezyne is whether 1600 lumens along with helmet mounted Sigma will be enough for forest trail riding which includes some technical descents. 
As for DA2500 I read some reviews which mention noise during high mode and MrMole’s review about unusual offset of its individual emitters in its hybrid mode. How problematic is this noise and do you think every unit is affected? Is the offset of emitters in hybrid mode so bad that I should rule out DA2500?

Which light would you recommend?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vihor said:


> Hi, I’m new to off-road trail night riding and don’t have any experience with bike lights.
> Searching through reviews and forums I decided for a Sigma buster 700 for helmet use and am in between Lezyne Super Drive xxl1600 and Magicshine DA2500 for a bar light. Those two I can get for a similar price around 85 euros.
> My rides usually consists of 1.5 hour climbing and half hour descending so I reckon that run times shouldn’t be an issue.
> My concern regarding Lezyne is whether 1600 lumens along with helmet mounted Sigma will be enough for forest trail riding which includes some technical descents.
> ...


I really can't recommend one light over the other since I've only used the DA2500. Looking at data from other's tests it looks like they have similar beam width and if the XXL 1600 matches my XXL 1300 in build quality that should be similar to the DA2500 also. The DA2500's Garmin style mount is easy to use and solidly attached to the bar but lacks the horizontal adjustabliity of the XXL 1600 who's strap mount would also be more convenient if you switch the light between different bikes. Up/down scrolling and separation of foreward and flashing modes gives the DA2500 a much nicer UI. I've never noticed any noise running my DA2500 in the high mode but to be honest I seldom run it in that mode because of the short runtime (approx. 1 hour) and over abundance of foreground light. As set up the DA2500 flood's much lower vertical aim creates too much reflective glare for my glare sensitive eyes and angling the light up more aims the spot side past horizontal and up in the air. If your less glare sensitive this wouldn't be as much an issue, short runtime will still affect high mode usability. With the DA2500's med. mode output and runtime falling between the XXL 1600's two highest modes usable output will be closer than claimed maximums. Here in the US we can get a Ceco 1000 or 1200 light off the Amazon site that would be a better performing less expensive and equal quality alternative to the Buster 700. I'd recommend considering it if available in your area. I added some links to road.cc tests on these lights. Hopefully this information will help you decide which light is best for you.
Mole

Magicshine Ray 2600 Smart Remote Bike Light 

Lezyne Super Drive 1600XXL


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Been a while since I posted anything but I'm still loving my Fireflies E01 (helmet ) and E07 ( bars ). Sadly both of these have been sold out for years. On a whim after getting home from a local night Mt. bike ride tonight I decided to do a basic search on google to see if any of these are available. To my surprise the E01 can be had ( saw it being sold on a private USA web site ) but it still is only sold with with the SST-40 emitter with a 5700K tint. I use mine on the helmet because the TIR optic provides almost the perfect mix of throw and beam width. Just wish they'd come up with a 4700-5000K version of the SST-40 and offer it on the E01.

Now to my utter surprise the Fireflies website actual had some new E07's ( version II ) in stock!! I'm so happy with my E07 because when I ordered it ( years ago ) I ordered it with the XPL-Hi emitters in the 4000K range. The E07's are just perfect for the bars; wide beam and great throw, coupled with the warmer emitters I ordered takes all the hard glare away from close to the bike. The new version of the E07 has a newer version of the Andril firmware. I don't know anything about that but I figure it should be fine. The Fireflies website still offers the E07's in a choice of emitter and a choice of temp range ( tint ) depending on what emitters you choose. If you want one you better order fast because the best Fireflies torches sell out really quick. I like my E07 so much I use it on the road as well ( although I still use my Ravemen CR900 on low for long slow climbs or when approaching people on paved MUP's. )


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> Been a while since I posted anything but I'm still loving my Fireflies E01 (helmet ) and E07 ( bars ). Sadly both of these have been sold out for years. On a whim after getting home from a local night Mt. bike ride tonight I decided to do a basic search on google to see if any of these are available. To my surprise the E01 can be had ( saw it being sold on a private USA web site ) but it still is only sold with with the SST-40 emitter with a 5700K tint. I use mine on the helmet because the TIR optic provides almost the perfect mix of throw and beam width. Just wish they'd come up with a 4700-5000K version of the SST-40 and offer it on the E01.
> 
> Now to my utter surprise the Fireflies website actual had some new E07's ( version II ) in stock!! I'm so happy with my E07 because when I ordered it ( years ago ) I ordered it with the XPL-Hi emitters in the 4000K range. The E07's are just perfect for the bars; wide beam and great throw, coupled with the warmer emitters I ordered takes all the hard glare away from close to the bike. The new version of the E07 has a newer version of the Andril firmware. I don't know anything about that but I figure it should be fine. The Fireflies website still offers the E07's in a choice of emitter and a choice of temp range ( tint ) depending on what emitters you choose. If you want one you better order fast because the best Fireflies torches sell out really quick. I like my E07 so much I use it on the road as well ( although I still use my Ravemen CR900 on low for long slow climbs or when approaching people on paved MUP's. )


THE CAT IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

I say mine because I have been trying for some time a convoy S2+ with led nichia 519A 4500k Hi-Cri R9080. I'm using it as EDC flashlight.
On the left my S2+ with short tube for 18350 battery (18650 battery by default).








I think the S2 + is too small and underpowered for my bike use: my measurements say about 450-500 continuous lumens for at least an hour, some might be fine, for me on a bike they are few.

These are my measurements:









However, the light is beautiful, the hue is perfect, the colors make it very well and the contrast of the scene is assured. I think Nichia 519A and GT-FC40 or GT-FC60 are the best compromise between Hi-Cri and lumen output.

At this point I think that a Convoy S21D with 4X Nichia 519A (and 21700 battery) is a perfect choice for MTB use, because it allows to obtain over 1000 Hi-Cri real lumens for over an hour which is, in my opinion, an excellent result. In addition, you can choose the type of optic then more flood or more thrower: 10 30 or 60 degree optics; you can also choose the driver: 12A feet driver or 8A CC driver.










For the moment I am testing this S2 + with various accessories, probably in the future I will also take the S21D to use it in MTB.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> THE CAT IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yep...it has been a while 323...I'm 67 now but still kicking. Almost killed myself a couple weeks ago trying to port my e-mt. bike over a fallen tree at night. The tree was pretty big and couldn't lift the whole bike ( ~ 60 lbs. ) completely to the other side. Manage to get one wheel over the top and then planned on climbing over and pulling the wheel I had sitting on the top over to the ground. As I was climbing over the tree ( one hand holding the bike in place ) somehow one foot slipped and I did a flip over the trunk and landed on my back. As I lay on the ground I noticed my right arm hurt. Without looking at it I just said to myself, "Please...don't let my arm be broke". Thankfully such was not the case. Just a couple large road rash abrasions but at my age it did take the wind out of my sails if you catch my drift.  . It was a LONG ride back to the car. Not sure how many lives I have left as I've lost count over the years. I may be on #6 or #7. If so I have two left. ...that said I'm not taking too many chances nowadays.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> At this point I think that a Convoy S21D with 4X Nichia 519A (and 21700 battery) is a perfect choice for MTB use, because it allows to obtain over 1000 Hi-Cri real lumens for over an hour which is, in my opinion, an excellent result. In addition, you can choose the type of optic then more flood or more thrower: 10 30 or 60 degree optics; you can also choose the driver: 12A feet driver or 8A CC driver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So how are you using the S21D?....bars or helmet and what optic and driver are you using? I might order one of these but I need to pick your brain before I roll the dice on one of these. I've never used a Nichia LED before but like you I have a Sofirn IF125A ( mine with XPL-Hi's ). These quad torches tend to heat up fast. ( The IF125A I have just didn't have the throw I needed even with narrow optics and then there was the over heating problem ) Looking on Aliexpress and after reading some of the reviews there I was thinking maybe getting one of he S21D's with 4500K , 519A's LED's coupled with the 8A CC driver along with the 10 degree flat lens. Thing is I don't like the UI these come with. Wish it came with the Anduril UI. Looks like these are five modes. At 100% output would probably over-heat. Next mode down is 35% and that might not be enough for helmet use if I want decent throw. I'm picky when it comes to what I find useful on the helmet. I want at least 150 ft. of throw but not real narrow and not real wide. Finding that middle ground is hard. The Fireflies E01 nails the helmet beam pattern perfectly except @ 5700K the tint is a little too white for my taste. Still for the time being it's what I'm using because first, I get no dancing ball effect, secondly it has the Anduril UI and doesn't tend to heat up too much at the output that I dial in. I'd love to see how or "IF" the 4500K 519A's might blend better with my Fireflies E07 4000K bar torch.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi Cat, nice to meet you.
As I wrote, I don't have an s21d but I am testing an s2 +, in the future I think I will also get an s21d.
I am writing a review on s2 + which I will post on other forums, I will not post it here because I think the S2 + with 519a is not the best for MTB use but it could be with SST40 or SFT40 led.

I have IF25a with SST20 4000k 95CRI, I am satisfied with the performance of this flashlight, to solve the overheating problem I set the stepdwon temperature to almost 65 °C and I obtained a constant performance even when it is hot in summer.

Convoy flashlights use Biscotti firmware and I think 50% power is the best setting. 8A CC driver also is the best choice for me because it has an excellent performance and tends to heat less. 
519a at 1A--> 330-340 lumen, so 4X519a at 4A 1000-1200 lumen.









Nichia LED 519A have a beatiful light, with a excellent color rendering, especially on the red color, where many LEDs go into difficulty.
Another advantage of the 519a is that it has an excellent watt / lumen output compared to other Hi-Cri LEDs.

if you want to blend with a 4000k I think it is more correct to take a 4000k rather than a 4500k.

I think 150 ft are not a problem, this is my IF25a SST20 default TIR optics at level 5-6-7-turbo:
trees at the bottom 150 meters (492ft)









Personally, if you are looking for more throw , I found the Convoy M21F with GT-FC40 4500k Hi-CRI led better, but it is a bigger and heavier torch. Here are some of my shots.
low-mid-high level.
trees at the bottom 150 meters (492ft)










or a sofirn C8L with XHP50.3 HI 6500k led, but this is not Hi-Cri and it is bigger and heavier.
My shots with trees at the bottom at 260m (853ft)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*New Light Coming - Ravemen LR1600*

I ran across this Ravemen LR1600/1200 doing research for another thread. I absolutely loved my LR800/900 with the exception of the smallish battery capacity so the addition of a 21700 cell and a few other upgrade features should make for a pretty nice light. 
Mole


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi MrMole, 
there are some shoots of beam pattern? 
thank you.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

A.Argo said:


> Hi MrMole,
> there are some shoots of beam pattern?
> thank you.


Haven't seen any beam shots yet. Since the optic treatment appears to be the same as the smaller 500/800/900 LR's I'm expecting a similar symmetrical oval shaped beam but only guessing till I get the light.
Mole

Wireless Control, Intelligent Daytime Running Light


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Ravemen LR1600 arrived today!*

Surprised/happy I received my light today since tracking said it left Singapore yesterday. My first purchase from New Era Cycle so thought I'd add my positive experience as reference for anyone considering ordering from them in the future. International shipping charges were similar to the UK vendors (Merlin, ebay) that are listing the light but NEC's unit price was quite a bit lower. Will try to get out with the LR tonight for a first ride. Looks impressively bright shining on the wall in the daylight with a nice wide oval beam pattern for as much as thst's worth..
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi Cat, nice to meet you.....
> 
> 
> I have IF25a with SST20 4000k 95CRI, I am satisfied with the performance of this flashlight, to solve the overheating problem I set the stepdwon temperature to almost 65 °C and I obtained a constant performance even when it is hot in summer.....
> ...


Next time I go out I'm going to try using my Sofirn IF25A again. The 4000k tint just works well with my E07 and throw might not be that much of an issue as it used to be. The IF25A does heat up fast though so I have to find the right output setting so the output stays consistent. I did take it out on a test last week on the local MUP where I live and it seemed to work fairly well even though there was a lot of moisture in the air that night which cut the throw a bit.

In the mean time I decided to roll the dice on a Convoy M21F. Mine though will be using an XHP-70.2 ( 4000K ). Reviews on Aliexpress mentioned that it had a wide hot spot so I'm crossing my fingers that the beam pattern will satisfy me when I mount it on my helmet and adjust the output. It will likely weigh a tiny bit more than my E01 since it has a bigger head and slightly longer battery tube but hopefully it will not be enough to make my helmet move more than usual. This is going to be my first try with a Cree XHP-70.2 emitter / torch. Been a while since I had a new torch so for ~ $34 I figure I can take the loss if it doesn't give me what I want. Now all I have to do is wait till Oct. for it to get here.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> *Ravemen LR1600 arrived today!*
> 
> Surprised/happy I received my light today since tracking said it left Singapore yesterday. My first purchase from New Era Cycle so thought I'd add my positive experience as reference for anyone considering ordering from them in the future. International shipping charges were similar to the UK vendors (Merlin, ebay) that are listing the light but NEC's unit price was quite a bit lower. Will try to get out with the LR tonight for a first ride. Looks impressively bright shining on the wall in the daylight with a nice wide oval beam pattern for as much as thst's worth..
> Mole


Hi MRM. Looking at the optic it doesn't look like it's going have any kind of cut-off. These have a bigger battery though right? Should still work fine for riding on the road. When I'm on the road I don't worry about cut-off any more. That said when on an MUP I still prefer something with some degree of cutoff.

When you get it try to give us a beam photo if you can.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hi MRM. Looking at the optic it doesn't look like it's going have any kind of cut-off. These have a bigger battery though right? Should still work fine for riding on the road. When I'm on the road I don't worry about cut-off any more. That said when on an MUP I still prefer something with some degree of cutoff.
> 
> When you get it try to give us a beam photo if you can.


The LR1600 has an elliptical shaped beam that is basically wide and flat on the top but not quite the hard cutoff of the first version CR and PR series lights. I prefer the LR as it provides effective top spill control when used at reasonable output levels but still works great for my off-road usage when operating in the higher modes. The wireless remote on the LR1600 is two button with one controling output levels and the other allowing access to the highest mode and back to whatever mode you started from (kind of like the old single buttton wired remotes except you don't have to continually hold the button down to stay in high). My first ride last night I found the 2nd lowest output mode fine for general MUP use (rated 400 lumen but I think it will measure higher than that) but nice to be able to access high when needed and return to the more economical mode easily. I don't have easy access to my camera or testing equipment at the moment as they had to be removed from my home so it could be super heated inside (150°F+) to treat a bed bug situation I some how ended up with. I'm working on safely reintroducing other more essential items that also had to be removed but will take some beam photos when I get to my internal battery items. LR1600 does come with a 4000mAh 21700 battery to cover the higher output but is quite a bit chunkier than my CR1000 I'm guessing to help control the higher output lights extra generated heat. 
Mole


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> Next time I go out I'm going to try using my Sofirn IF25A again. The 4000k tint just works well with my E07 and throw might not be that much of an issue as it used to be. The IF25A does heat up fast though so I have to find the right output setting so the output stays consistent. I did take it out on a test last week on the local MUP where I live and it seemed to work fairly well even though there was a lot of moisture in the air that night which cut the throw a bit.
> 
> In the mean time I decided to roll the dice on a Convoy M21F. Mine though will be using an XHP-70.2 ( 4000K ). Reviews on Aliexpress mentioned that it had a wide hot spot so I'm crossing my fingers that the beam pattern will satisfy me when I mount it on my helmet and adjust the output. It will likely weigh a tiny bit more than my E01 since it has a bigger head and slightly longer battery tube but hopefully it will not be enough to make my helmet move more than usual. This is going to be my first try with a Cree XHP-70.2 emitter / torch. Been a while since I had a new torch so for ~ $34 I figure I can take the loss if it doesn't give me what I want. Now all I have to do is wait till Oct. for it to get here.


Hi,

for the IF25a it is important to calibrate the temperature sensor and then setting the stepdown temperature.

XHP 70.2 4000k has more lumen, more efficiency lumen/watt, more flood.
GT-FC 40 4000k has hi-cri, less lumen, less efficiency and a more little bit thrower beam.

If you want more throw you can choice convoy M21C or M21D, very similar to M21F but with a deeper and bigger head.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Exposure are literally the most innovative and well regarded lights for damn good reason.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A.Argo said:


> If you want more throw you can choice convoy M21C or M21D, very similar to M21F but with a deeper and bigger head.


The M21C & M21D look to have an awfully big head for helmet mounting. The M21F seems to have a better suited shape (and looks like it would be lighter). Now you have me considering a new light! (I should've stayed away!)

-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Yes you are right, I think the same.

















if you want a small light you can choice a m21b o a C8 and choice a led with more throw as sft40, but with low CRI.


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

Thought this might be a good option for anyone using a battery pack and charging cord with their handlebar-mount light. Also doubles as light storage during the day if you travel light with no backpack or other bag. If anyone knows of similar bags please share.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi,
> 
> for the IF25a it is important to calibrate the temperature sensor and then setting the stepdown temperature.
> 
> ...


I believe when I first received my SoFirn IF25A ( years ago ) , like all torches I bought that have the Anduril UI , I tried setting the thermal cutoff at 65 degrees C. The 25A still gets too hot to touch though if it's not getting enough moving air or if the output is set too high for too long.

Thanks for the info on the GT-FC. I may start to dabble a bit more with different emitters and different torches but the Convoy's are always a good place to start as I already own a few of those. I really do like the Fireflies E01 platform as the TIR optic it uses provides a nice beam pattern for the helmet. Just wish I could buy one with an emitter in the 4000-4500K range that still had the same ( or close to ) lumen output. 

I just looked at the photos of the Convoy 21C and 21D and both of those would not work well for me as the head on both is way too big IMO. Hoping the 21F is going to provide enough useable throw and still have awesome over-spill. I may look into buying another 21B as I already have a couple of those only with higher Kevin rating. The M21Bs I have provide awesome throw and some nice over-spill using the XPL HI.

Damn! I just found out Aliexpress sells the Convoy M21B with XHP50.2 and has it in a 4000K version. Sadly it's only using the stupid 5 mode options.  Can't use it on high or it would over-heat and 35% output is the next mode down. Damn, if they only used the Anduril UI so I could dial in my own preferred output. Hmmm...the M21's I have are pretty bright on the second brightest mode. With a brighter emitter it just might work. I'll have to think this over before pulling the trigger on one of these. I still prefer the beam pattern of the Fireflies E01 over the Convoy M21s although both work well on the helmet.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi,

If you choose the 12 groups firmware, you can choose a group where the level is not 35% but 50%.
Generally the group with 50% is number 8.

If you are looking for the throw you can see the C8 with XPL-Hi 4200-4500K also.
C8 is a best buy: 18650, so it's small and light, but a impressive throw for a helmet light with xpl-hi led, and it can run on high for long time.
Don't worry about lumen output, but you can watch a youtube review for more info.

Another good choice is Noctigon Kr1, very small and powerful but a little bit more expensive.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

I have almost finished the review on the S2 + with the 519A 4500k, I just have to fix some gifs and then do the translation.
This torch with the 519A is not the best for MTBs, at most it is good for gravel and city bikes, however the same torch with xpl-hi, SST40, SFT40 or Osram led I think can be an excellent helmet torch.

If you like it, anyway and you agree, I could publish it here too, there is various information on modding, accessories, measurements and comparative photos, so I think it could be useful.
I ask you, if you like to read, I understand that it is not really an MTB product.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ELmRidge said:


> Thought this might be a good option for anyone using a battery pack and charging cord with their handlebar-mount light. Also doubles as light storage during the day if you travel light with no backpack or other bag. If anyone knows of similar bags please share.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2000306
> View attachment 2000307


This is what I use. Bought on Amazon. Holds my phone and will hold other small items like flashlights ( torches ) batteries, gel packs, keys..etc.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08S7P42VZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you choose the 12 groups firmware, you can choose a group where the level is not 35% but 50%.
> Generally the group with 50% is number 8.
> ...


Yes, I know I could choose the 50% option menu but that is the maximum output on that group setting. That said I'd still like to access full power even if just for a few minutes at a time for use on those tech. areas. I still have an old C8 torch somewhere. Used with an XPL-Hi it would likely be a very narrow hot spot with a lot of throw. I already have big throwers. I'm looking for more of a wider beam that can still output useable throw without over-heating. ( this is why I prefer TIR optics over reflectors ) The trails I tend to ride have lots of turns and very short lines of sight. That being the case if the new M21F helmet torch I ordered lets me see things clearly between 125-150 ft. with a wide dispersion, that would be what I'm looking for. My Convoy M21 with XPL-Hi (6500K) I use on the helmet when I go riding on the road. Only use it for moments at a time but it gives me all the throw I could ever want. Great for spotting deer on the side of the road 300 ft. away. ( I should add that my M21's were custom builds...better heat sinks, better driver....only that vendor doesn't sell to the public anymore. If he did I'd be sending him my E01 and having him do a custom upgrade.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Took a Mt. bike ride last night on the local trails using my SoFirn IF25A on the helmet ( 4000K ) coupled with my Fireflies E07 (4000K ) on the bars. (both with Anduril UI ) Been years since I used the 25A. Like before not quite the throw I'm used to ..BUT...using the 25A changed the whole dynamic of the ride. Without the bright feedback glare of my brighter torches all the techical trail features just jumped out at me. Suddenly I realized I was seeing all the better lines sooner and as a result I was riding faster, taking less hard hits and over all riding with more confidence. This is why warmer tints work especially since the leaves are starting to cover trails. The warmer tints bring out more detail in the trails. Can't wait till I get the new torch I have on order but that likely won't arrive till early Oct. For the time being I'm going to continue using the IF25A on the helmet when riding the local trails. The 25A did get warm while I was using it but never got really hot. Can't wait now to do another night off road ride.

On a side note the ride I took lasted about an hour and both torches read 3.9 volts after the ride.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Yes Cat, you are right: hi-Cri and warmer light is perfect to ride an MTB on the trail.

Take a look at this pictures especially on the red color and contrast:

*Comparative:*
Below are some comparative photos with WB at 5000K and on a 18% gray cardboard background.
1) Sofirn SP40 LH351D 4000K Hi-CRI
2) Wurkkos TS21 219C 5000k Hi-CRI
3) Convoy S2 + 519A 4500k Hi-CRI
4) Sofirn C8L XHP50D HI 6500k


































White background, WB 5000K, from left to right:
1) Sofirn SP40 LH351D 4000K Hi-CRI
2) Wurkkos TS21 219C 5000k Hi-CRI
3) Convoy S2 + 519A 4500k Hi-CRI
4) Sofirn C8L XHP50D HI 6500k


















Two comparative shots between *S2 +* 100% and *then TS21* on High (non turbo)
Both with this setup:
26mm f1.6
iso5000
1 / 15s
WB 5000k


















As you can see, Hi-CRI led is ever a better solution but color and contrast vision and warmer color are ever more restful for the eyes in the night.

If you liked these images and want to read the rest of my review on the S2 + you can do it at this address:





__





[Review] -Convoy S2+ 519A 4500k- By Argo | BudgetLightForum.com







budgetlightforum.com





But if you think it will come in handy, I can also post the review here on MTBR forum.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A. Argo: Wow! Love that beam pattern of your Wurkkos TS21 triple Nichia 219c! Not sure if "high" is a sustainable mode for MTB or not (heat & runtime). I'm currently eyeing the TS21 with a triple SST20 4000k. What do you think of that one for a Hemet light? Like Cat (I think), I'm looking for a wide throwing beam. Will the SST20 beam look similar to your 219c? Or will it lose the wide foreground light? Like Cat, I'm disappointed using my IF25a as it seems too dim except on the highest levels, so I'm looking for something similar, bright, wide, and more useable on lower levels. I also see reviewers saying the 4000k SST20 TS21 is actually nowhere near it's claimed output and is actually quite dim. 

Thanks,
-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi, you can read my review about TS21here:









[Review] -Wurkkos TS21 219C 5000k- By Argo


I wrote this review for another forum, but I would like to share it here too, as flashlights are often used as lights on the helmet or handlebars of bikes. Hope you like it. 1) Disclaimer 2) Premise 3) Introduction 4) Packaging 5) Materials, assembly, processing, finishes, anodizing 6)...




www.mtbr.com





TS21 219c is too flood e absolutely no throw.

but with sst20 4000k —> if25a is a better choice.
If25a Sst20 4000k looks like sofirn sp40 4000k: a bit yellow, but with a good throw, heat and runtime.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A.Argo: I just posted in your TS21 review thread. So you are saying you think the IF25a is better than a TS21 with SST40's ? Would the TS21 have a narrower beam than the IF25A (I expect so since it's a 3 emitter vs 4 emitter, but it may not due to optics.). 

Thanks,
-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Yes, i think IF25A SST20 4000k, is better than TS21 SST20 4000k, because it is more bigger and with a better heat dissipation. 

If you want to have control of the light beam, I suggest you take an S21D, so you can choose the type of TIR optic.










I have read that the S21D has the same TIR optics as the IF25, but the S21D is much easier to modify and mod.
So you can choose the optics, the LED and the color temperature.

I modded an IF25A but it was difficult because the bezel is glued to the head and unscrewing it was not easy at all.
I swapped SST20 to Samsung LH351D 5000k, but samsung leds are too greenish and too wide. 









































































I'm thinking of switching again, this time from samsung to nichia. 
I have to choose whether to install the 519A which would also be perfect for shooting or the famous 219b, but which would have less power and less shot.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The S21D has the 12 mode driver that doesn't provide good options for MTB use . Ugh! Decisions, decisions!

-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

You must see total lumen output= the area below the curve.
The performance of S21D is very good!
This is 8CC version:










Now, take a look to the performance of TS21:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the Nichia emitters but have noticed the SST20 emitters have a very high cd value compared to their lumen output so not too surprised at these data results. Would be interesting to see cd values tracked along with lumen output to better judge what kind of beam performance to expect.
Mole


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Of course,
From zeroair.org website:

convoy S21D 519a 4500k









Wurkkos TS21 29c 5000k


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Thanks!
Mole


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

Thanks MRMOLE...I just got a Ravemen PR800 and I am very happy with it for what I use it for...a nightly spin around my local singletrack MTB trails for about an hour. I am giving it to my girlfriend though as she rarely rides at night but probably will more soon now that it gets darker earlier. I can probably use the extra runtime of the PR900 so I just ordered one. The PR800 was showing a low battery signal for the last 10 minutes or so of my ride on it's highest setting which is consistant with the published runtime specs of the headlight. I will have at least another hour of runtime with the PR900 because of it's larger battery capacity. I only wish it was USB-C and had a more robust handlebar clamp, although the clamp it comes with holds the light well and the light doesn't shake or bounce much at all when hitting bumps. I don't think I'd want to hit jumps with it in use, but I don't hit jumps much anyway, particularly at night. It's a good product, and I am impressed with how small it is for what it provides.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ELmRidge said:


> Thanks MRMOLE...I just got a Ravemen PR800 and I am very happy with it for what I use it for...a nightly spin around my local singletrack MTB trails for about an hour. I am giving it to my girlfriend though as she rarely rides at night but probably will more soon now that it gets darker earlier. I can probably use the extra runtime of the PR900 so I just ordered one. The PR800 was showing a low battery signal for the last 10 minutes or so of my ride on it's highest setting which is consistant with the published runtime specs of the headlight. I will have at least another hour of runtime with the PR900 because of it's larger battery capacity. I only wish it was USB-C and had a more robust handlebar clamp, although the clamp it comes with holds the light well and the light doesn't shake or bounce much at all when hitting bumps. I don't think I'd want to hit jumps with it in use, but I don't hit jumps much anyway, particularly at night. It's a good product, and I am impressed with how small it is for what it provides.


Glad you like your light! I'm sure you'll be happy with the PR900 too. The larger battery capacity + LCD display are features I'm sure you'll enjoy. I've had my PR900 for about 4 yrs. now with no problems and the battery will still charge to 2.5 hrs runtime in the high mode. Good quality lights!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hi MRM. Looking at the optic it doesn't look like it's going have any kind of cut-off. These have a bigger battery though right? Should still work fine for riding on the road. When I'm on the road I don't worry about cut-off any more. That said when on an MUP I still prefer something with some degree of cutoff.
> 
> When you get it try to give us a beam photo if you can.


I finally found the camera in my mess so here's an appropriate shot to show cutoff and beam shape. The LR1600 continues to work well and I mostly use it in the second to lowest mode which measures out around the 600 lumen level. Working on an output chart so should be able to post that soon.
Mole

Ravemen LR1600 USB Rechargeable Front Light


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> The S21D has the 12 mode driver that doesn't provide good options for MTB use . Ugh! Decisions, decisions!
> 
> -Garry


Garry, glad I read all of the above posts before posting. Like you I was about to roll the dice on the Convoy S21D because it had great emitter, driver and optic options. I was tending to favor the the 519A emitter ( 4500K ) but the output on those is only listed as 2600 lumen on high. On the other hand the quad XPL-HD is listed as 4000 lumen on high. However that might be with the 5000K option. I would go with the 4000K option if I bought one because I still feel the 5000K tint is too white for my liking. Maybe get 3500 lumen on high with the 4000K XPL-HD. _If used on the second level ( 35% of high ) that might produce 1200 lumen which could actually be quite useful._...PROVIDING......_the 10° flat optic actual throws better than our IF25A's using the SST-20's_.  Pretty sure my Sofirn IF25A is using spot optics. That said, as all three of us know, the throw suffers with the IF25A using the SST-20's. Damn, if these had the Anduril UI I'd a pulled the trigger on one of these. Still, my experience with using the Cree XPL's is that the XPL's will have better spot / distance throw than the SST-20's. Like you said though, "Decisions, decisions".


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I finally found the camera in my mess so here's an appropriate shot to show cutoff and beam shape. The LR1600 continues to work well and I mostly use it in the second to lowest mode which measures out around the 600 lumen level. Working on an output chart so should be able to post that soon.
> Mole
> 
> Ravemen LR1600 USB Rechargeable Front Light
> ...


Beam pattern on the garage door looks like it would be quite useful on the road. Even though there is not a hard cutoff at the top, most of light looks like it is aimed lower in the beam pattern. With the two button wireless remote and bigger battery this looks like a winner to me. Would like to see what this looks like when in use on the road.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> Garry, glad I read all of the above posts before posting. Like you I was about to roll the dice on the Convoy S21D because it had great emitter, driver and optic options. I was tending to favor the the 519A emitter ( 4500K ) but the output on those is only listed as 2600 lumen on high. On the other hand the quad XPL-HD is listed as 4000 lumen on high. However that might be with the 5000K option. I would go with the 4000K option if I bought one because I still feel the 5000K tint is too white for my liking. Maybe get 3500 lumen on high with the 4000K XPL-HD. _If used on the second level ( 35% of high ) that might produce 1200 lumen which could actually be quite useful._...PROVIDING......_the 10° flat optic actual throws better than our IF25A's using the SST-20's_.  Pretty sure my Sofirn IF25A is using spot optics. That said, as all three of us know, the throw suffers with the IF25A using the SST-20's. Damn, if these had the Anduril UI I'd a pulled the trigger on one of these. Still, my experience with using the Cree XPL's is that the XPL's will have better spot / distance throw than the SST-20's. Like you said though, "Decisions, decisions".


Good morning Cat,
from what I read you are an expert user, if you like 519a but you think it has little throw, you can proceed to do a dome dedoming. On the 519a it is quite a simple operation but I recommend you to buy 4 additional 519 LEDs, so if there are errors you can install a new unit, but I advise you to choose 5000k or higher because when you proceed with the dedoming the color temperature is lowered.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Good morning Cat,
> from what I read you are an expert user, if you like 519a but you think it has little throw, you can proceed to do a dome dedoming. On the 519a it is quite a simple operation but I recommend you to buy 4 additional 519 LEDs, so if there are errors you can install a new unit, but I advise you to choose 5000k or higher because when you proceed with the dedoming the color temperature is lowered.


Thanks for the additional information. Actually I never assumed the Nichia 519A didn't have throw. I was just making a judgement call based on the listed lumen output that AliExpress listed on their website that listed the Convoy S21D and the emitter choices they gave. When it comes to actual throw and beam pattern so much relies on the optics ( or reflector ) as well as the ability of the torch to handle heat and what type of driver is being used. In a nut shell It's always going to be a crap shoot when you order a torch from China. I was impressed by your beam photo of the S2 using an 4500K 519A but I didn't think to ask if you had dedomed this torch or not. Anyway I was impressed enough to want to try a torch using the 519A and I may do so as I have yet to decide on buying something else. I liked the tint of the 4500K 519A on the S2 you have. Was that emitter de-domed?

I don't do modding of torches myself and most of the stuff I have are using domed emitters. Only two torches I own ( both Convoy M21's ) have been custom modded using de-domed XPL's and those I bought from a private vendor many years ago. Sadly his work was so good that he started contracting for the government and as far as I know he still does not offer his modded torches for general public sale. 


A.Argo said:


> Good morning Cat,
> from what I read you are an expert user, if you like 519a but you think it has little throw, you can proceed to do a dome dedoming. On the 519a it is quite a simple operation but I recommend you to buy 4 additional 519 LEDs, so if there are errors you can install a new unit, but I advise you to choose 5000k or higher because when you proceed with the dedoming the color temperature is lowered.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi Cat,
my 519A is domed, stock led, no mod.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> You must see total lumen output= the area below the curve.
> The performance of S21D is very good!
> This is 8CC version:


This is very interesting since I'm still thinking about the Convoy S21D. I see you used the controlled current driver which I would use as well. Is this the 4500K version or 5000K ( domed or de-domed )? From the graph it looks like the torch ran for about 45 minutes holding at ~ 1150 lumen. The next question would be; "What mode were you using for the test"? I would be interested to know how the next mode down performed ( 35%). Final question; By any chance have an outside beam photo of this torch when it's at it's 15 minute mark? ( please no beam photos on snow as these really are quite useless )

On a side note; I did another trail ride tonight using my IF25A. I also brought along another torch I've owned for years that had a nice warm tint with the intent to see which was the more useful on the helmet. Had the battery tube on the older torch ( 18650 ) wrapped with electrical tape to help keep it in place so I forgot what brand it was when I was using it. When I got home I took off the tape and it turns out it was an old Convoy S3, likely using a warm tinted XML emitter. I used the S3 for half of the ride and it performed very well in combo with my 4000K Fireflies E07 ( bars ). I then switched the IF25A to the helmet. Comparing the two, it was very hard to tell the difference. Beam patterns, tint and output were almost identical although I think I'd give a slight edge to the S3 for throw ( at least before it started to heat up ). Unfortunately it was impossible to monitor how hot the torches were getting when I was using them because it was quite cool tonight and had to wear full finger glove liners to keep my hands warm. 

Should have my new torch sometime next week. Can't wait to see if it will make a better helmet torch. Just hope the hurricane coming up from Fla. doesn't dump too much rain on the local trails when ( or if ) it reaches Md.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi Cat,
> my 519A is domed, stock led, no mod.


Excellent! I might have to pick-up an S2 with the 4500K Nichia 519A. Not that I need another S2 but I have no torches with a 4500K emitter. Not to mention I own no torches using any of the Nichia LED's. The Cat is curious. 😁


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi Cat,

i'm about to order my s21d, i don't own it yet. Meantime you can read a full review on the zeroair.org website.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*RAVEMEN LR1600 UPDATE*

Here's the results I got measuring the LR1600's top 2 modes. Output is unfortunately more inconsistent than what I've typically seen from their lights in the past but no worse than average. When I get a chance I'll also measure the next mode down (what I've been using on the bike paths) and expect it to be much more consistent but we'll see. At least higher output levels produced in the early stages of the modes can be extended with the use of an external power source.
Mole


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

MRMOLE said:


> Glad you like your light! I'm sure you'll be happy with the PR900 too. The larger battery capacity + LCD display are features I'm sure you'll enjoy. I've had my PR900 for about 4 yrs. now with no problems and the battery will still charge to 2.5 hrs runtime in the high mode. Good quality lights!
> Mole


 I just got the p900 and I have a few questions hopefully you can answer. When it is fully charged, the LCD display says 2.0 hours in the high mode. Is that normal? Or should it say 2.5 hours since the manual says it should give 2.5 hours of runtime in high mode?

I ran the light today on my local mountain bike trail. At the end of my ride the LCD dispaly said 0.7 What happens when the light get's closer to 0? Does it begin to fade? Or does it begin to fade and quickly die when it goes below 0.1?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Happy times! My Convoy M21F arrived yesterday. I took it on quick local ride last night on the local MUP's along with a couple snippets of natural surface areas. I'm impressed but I'll give a more detail review when I have more time to ride on actual single track. I'll give more info when I come home tonight. Sadly this weekend is calling for rain Sat. and Sunday  One tid bit; this thing is awesome on boost. I'm crossing my fingers right now hoping that it won't be raining when I come home tonight. 🤒 Getting into the 50sF temps at night now so requires a bit more clothing.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Awesome to hear Cat! Now remind us which version of the M21F you bought (I can't find your original post). Is it the 12 mode driver, 4 mode, ramping? Emitter and color temp you chose? Also very curious to hear how the beam pattern is - wide throwing? Narrow throwing with dim spill?

I'm stuck between ordering the M21F and an S21D, but leaning toward the M21F. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ELmRidge said:


> I just got the p900 and I have a few questions hopefully you can answer. When it is fully charged, the LCD display says 2.0 hours in the high mode. Is that normal? Or should it say 2.5 hours since the manual says it should give 2.5 hours of runtime in high mode?
> 
> I ran the light today on my local mountain bike trail. At the end of my ride the LCD dispaly said 0.7 What happens when the light get's closer to 0? Does it begin to fade? Or does it begin to fade and quickly die when it goes below 0.1?


If I remember correctly (I've had my PR900 for over 4 yrs.) I used to be able to get it to register 2.5 but it would almost immediately go to 2.0 when I started using it. Display changes in .5hr. increments till it reaches 1.0 where it indicated .1 intervals. The light will just switch off when it drops below .1.
Mole


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

I point out that on the Convoy M series it is also possible to choose the XHP70.3 5000K 4000K 3000K instead of the XHP70.2, just send a message for the upgrade, they will soon be on the list.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

garrybunk said:


> Awesome to hear Cat! Now remind us which version of the M21F you bought (I can't find your original post). Is it the 12 mode driver, 4 mode, ramping? Emitter and color temp you chose? Also very curious to hear how the beam pattern is - wide throwing? Narrow throwing with dim spill?
> 
> I'm stuck between ordering the M21F and an S21D, but leaning toward the M21F.
> 
> -Garry


If you want great throw and more lumens, but bad CRI and bad tint: SFT40, CULPM1 and XHP70.
If you want good medium range throw, Hi-CRI, beautiful tint and color rendition: GT-FC40
If you want best Tint and best CRI and color rendition, but less lumen and less throw Nichia led. 
Nichia 519A has a decent throw and a decent lumen / watt ratio, compared to other hi-CRI LEDs.

With the same LEDs:
More throw with a spot more bright but less spill (high to low):
1) M21D M21C
2) M21E M21A
3) M21F M21B
4) S21D










Another good choice but with 18650 is C8, very customizable and you can choose many more LEDs.












I hope I was helpful.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Awesome to hear Cat! Now remind us which version of the M21F you bought (I can't find your original post). Is it the 12 mode driver, 4 mode, ramping? Emitter and color temp you chose? Also very curious to hear how the beam pattern is - wide throwing? Narrow throwing with dim spill?
> 
> I'm stuck between ordering the M21F and an S21D, but leaning toward the M21F.
> 
> -Garry


Well Gary keep in mind I've only had one ride with the 21F on the lid and sadly it's going to rain for the next few days which will keep me from taking it on a trail ride. That said I'll add a little more info that might help you make a decision. The output is a very wide beam pattern with pretty decent throw. I would say the throw is much better than the Sofirn IF25A but I'd like to actually take both out and compare ( which I have not done yet ). No artifacts in the beam pattern that I could detect. The emitter option I chose was with XHP70.2 ( 4000K ). The UI offers a number of choices. The default mode menu is somewhat like the Andruil ( press/hold...fade up/down ). Quick double click gives you boost mode which is monstrously bright. Unfortunately another double click does not return it to the last mode. You have to press/ hold to turn it down. The button is small and somewhat hard to find if you wear full finger gloves. With more practice though I think I'll get used to it. The fade up / down feature is much more faster acting than the typical Andruil UI. I wish it were a little slower but I'll get used to it. Below I'll copy and paste the UI options....



> 1.click the button ——> flashlight is turned on with last brightness ——> press the button,brightness ramping up ——> release and press the button again,brightness ramping down
> 
> 2.flashlight off, press the button ——> moonlight mode (0.2%) [_This brightness will not be remembered_]
> 
> ...


When I first turned the 21F on inside my home I first thought they gave me the wrong tint because at first take it seemed too white to me. Afterwards, comparing it to my Fireflies E01 ( 5700 K ) it became obvious the 21F had a warmer output particularly when used at a moderate output level. ( not to mention 4000K is written right on the box ). Once I tried it outside in combo with my FFireflies E07 (4000K ) which tends to have a very warm tint, the 21F worked very well with the E07. Like with my Sofirn IF25A ( 4000K ) I could not discern a transistion point between the two outputs. The difference being the Convoy M21F just has more sheer output and thus better throw. The 21F is gonna be great for places where their are lots of turns or wider areas where you need to chose the best line. Yes, it is slightly more heavier than my other 21700 torches but in the hour I rode with it on my helmet the weight did not bother me at all. Now to get the 25F to aim where I wanted I had add some small pieces of rubber under the tail because the head is slightly bigger that most of my other torches. Do not think of this as a negative though. The head of this torch dissipates heat exceedingly well. The whole time I was using it I never felt it get warm even once. It was a cool night though. ( 55°F ) so perhaps that played into that. It was an interesting night as the low temperature bought about a lot of low lying moisture into the air. I could see minute droplets going by the 21F as I was riding. I did at one point use it on a short section of double track that led to a football field. I was amazed at how well the 21F was throwing and that with a very wide beam pattern. On dirt and grass it just seemed to work better.

Keep in mind these are just my initial observations. While I suspect I'm going to love using the 21F as a helmet light for single track I won't know for sure until I get a chance to use it while fully on dirt trails. ( M21F includes a built-in charging port the uses USB-C ) There is also the option to buy with battery included.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

My last flashlight:

Wurkkos TS30S SBT90.2 5700K 6000 lumens declared (4500-5000 real lumens), Anduril UI, 226000 cd / 952meters.

Pictures at WB 5000k

From left to right:
1) Sofirn C8L XHP50.3HI 6500K
2) Convoy M21F GT-FC40 4500K Hi-CRI
3) Wurkkos TS30S SBT90.2 5700K


















My consideration for MTB use:

*1) Sofirn IF25A SST20 4000K: *
this is the right compromise between CRI, color temperature, tint, size, weight, throw and flood, battery life, UI.

*2) Convoy M21F Gt-FC40 4500K:*
good mid range throw, with beautiful color rendition, tint, color temperature, however it tends to heat up, it is definitely not the best choice on thermal management. It may be a good choice XHP70.3 with better throw and better thermal management, but you will definitely lose out on color rendition and tint.

*3) Sofirn C8L XHP50.3 6500K:*
the best of this 4 flashlight for thermal management, you can drive this C8L on maximum lumens for the first 4,5 minutes and it generates little heat and performance is stable over time. Throw of this flashlight outperform IF25A and M21F, but less flood. If you are looking for throw and excellent thermal management, this is the right choice for you.

*4) Wurkkos TS30S 5700K: *
A mountain of lumens to an incredible throw (925m) but with a good spill. It doesn't have a good CRI, color rendition, tint, but this flashlight is for those looking for shot and power.
It is the biggest and heaviest of all, I have to try it yet and I will let you know my impressions.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my last post:* Last night I played with the UI with the Convoy M21F. From what I see it is somewhat hard to get it to go to the different modes. So far I've been able to get to every mode except the 1%-10%-40%-100% mode. I think I may be able to do it now but not sure how to get it to go back to default "ramping" mode if I do. Takes 6 quick presses of the switch to make it a 4-mode. When you change menu and click the button you have to do it fast before the light comes on or it won't change. I finally got it to go into "battery voltage check" mode ( 5 clicks ).

*@ A.Argo:* Do you know how to get these to go back to default ( ramping ) if you change it to 4-mode? I'm not going to change it until I know I can go back to default.

*@ Garybunk*: Rained on and off all last night. Maryland is getting the edge of Hurricane Ian. Basically just on and off rain. Hopefully Ian will die at some point and we won't get the winds. If we do it will bring about all kinds of dead falls and debris for the local trails. Not the way I wanted to start Oct. According to forecasts I might see a dry period next week in the middle of the week. If I don't see any torrential rain between now and then I may be good for a trail ride next week. One can only hope.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi @Cat-man-do
Very fast key presses are required to enter in the user interface, as I wrote in the review I don't like the feedback the key provides but over time you learn to use it. 
I'don't like ramping mode, because is too fast.

User Interface:
*From flashlight off:*
• Long press to enter moonlight mode
• Single click: goes directly to the memory level, both in ramp and steps mode.
• Double click: turbo
• Triple click: strobe
• 4 click: enter tactical mode: when the switch is pressed it goes to 100%. To exit this mode, click again 4 or disconnect the battery.
• 5 clicks: voltage reading
• 6 clicks: switches from ramp to step mode
• 10 clicks: flashlight lock

*From flashlight on:*
• Long press: increases or decreases the light intensity on the ramp, or goes up and down the steps (1% 10% 40% 100%)
• Single click: turn off
• Double click: turbo
• Triple click: strobe
• 5 clicks: reading of the voltage
• 6 clicks: switches from ramp to step mode

*Shortcuts:*
• Moonlight: long press with the torch off
• Turbo: 2 clicks both with the torch off and on
• Strobe: 3 clicks both with the torch off and on

*Warning LED positioned in the switch:*
• When the voltage drops below 3V, the LEDs will flash red.
• During recharging the LEDs will flash red
• When fully charged the LEDs will flash green


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@ A.Argo:* Okay, I figured it out. The 4-mode is not bad, a type of digital ramping. Six fast clicks in order to go back to default. I might tend to like the normal ( default ) fade up/down ramping because I can set it at about 50-60% and just leave it there. I will give the 4-mode a try on the trails though but not sure if 40% is going to be enough for most of my riding. Like you said though in the long run it might be easier to work with.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

When I use M21F (GT-FC40) on trail, I set it on 100% and I leave the output to thermal management. 









The performance is good and I am satisfied with the output, then when the battery runs out I replace it.
I don't know how it behaves with the XHP50 led but you should try 100% and let the flashlight do it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> When I use M21F (GT-FC40) on trail, I set it on 100% and I leave the output to thermal management.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is an interesting idea ( *mine is XHP70.2 )*. Nevertheless when I use torches as helmet lamps I usually only use the output needed for the moment. Sometimes I just run with the bar lamp alone and only turn on the helmet torch when coming up on turns or a faster / more open section of trail. Doing it this way I conserve battery power. That said I always carry an extra cell. So far though I've never had to switch a battery on any of the torches I own while on a ride. Most of my night rides never last more than a hour anyway, at least for the time being. 

Tonight I took the M21F with me when I went out to get something to eat. While driving down some dark roads I was shining the light down into some dark areas ( this was in 4-mode UI and set on the 40% mode on a dark rainy night ) Does a pretty good job in this mode so when I do get a chance to ride trail again I'll be using the 4-mode and hoping it fills the ticket. 

On a side note I taped a small button battery on top of the torch switch. If the tape holds this should help me find the switch button better. Hummm....just noticed the switch is about 4-fingers from the lip of the front....that's without full finger gloves on though. Still with that thought in mind that should help me find the button quicker.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> If you want great throw and more lumens, but bad CRI and bad tint: SFT40, CULPM1 and XHP70.
> If you want good medium range throw, Hi-CRI, beautiful tint and color rendition: GT-FC40
> If you want best Tint and best CRI and color rendition, but less lumen and less throw Nichia led.
> *Nichia 519A has a decent throw and a decent lumen / watt ratio, compared to other hi-CRI LEDs.*
> ...


*@A.Argo;* I need to pick your brain a bit. I'm still considering a Convoy S21D. I'm trying to decide between the 519A emitter and the XPL-HD. I've looked up the CRI listing on the 4000K XPL. Those list at about 80 CRI. Looking at the data sheet for the 519A I don't see a CRI listing for any of the emitters. Not sure if I'd want to go with 4000K or 4500K although the 4500K might have a little better throw it would have less CRI. Keep in mind no matter what emitter I chose the throw with quad optics IMO is not going to be the greatest.

All things considered since owning the Sofirn IF25A I'm not sure I trust these quad mini optic torches to provide enough throw. If I chose the 4000K XPL-HD I might get a little better throw but perhaps a less warmer beam pattern. 

If you were considering an S21D and your only choice was 519A and XPL-HD which emitter and Kelvin rating do you think would be the most useful for helmet use considering it's going to use a 10° flat quad optic? Are any of these going to at least provide a useful throw where you can see clearly to about 100ft? Hopefully you have some experience with these types of quad optics. Right now I'm leaning toward the 4500K 519A but only because I don't own any torches with Nichia LED's.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@A.Argo;* I need to pick your brain a bit. I'm still considering a Convoy S21D. I'm trying to decide between the 519A emitter and the XPL-HD. I've looked up the CRI listing on the 4000K XPL. Those list at about 80 CRI. Looking at the data sheet for the 519A I don't see a CRI listing for any of the emitters. Not sure if I'd want to go with 4000K or 4500K although the 4500K might have a little better throw it would have less CRI. Keep in mind no matter what emitter I chose the throw with quad optics IMO is not going to be the greatest.
> 
> All things considered since owning the Sofirn IF25A I'm not sure I trust these quad mini optic torches to provide enough throw. If I chose the 4000K XPL-HD I might get a little better throw but perhaps a less warmer beam pattern.
> 
> If you were considering an S21D and your only choice was 519A and XPL-HD which emitter and Kelvin rating do you think would be the most useful for helmet use considering it's going to use a 10° flat quad optic? Are any of these going to at least provide a useful throw where you can see clearly to about 100ft? Hopefully you have some experience with these types of quad optics. Right now I'm leaning toward the 4500K 519A but only because I don't own any torches with Nichia LED's.


Hi, nice to read you.
my s21d 219b 4500k has been shipped, it is on the road and should arrive in a couple of weeks, I also ordered a set of TIR optics.

these days I have studied the s21d. the s21d has the same TIR lens with the IF25A, so they are interchangeable. IF25A sst20 has more throw than s21d with nichia led.

nichia 519 is CRI 98 with R9080
nichia 219b is CRI 98 with R9080.

519 has a better lumen/watt and more lumen output than 219b, but 219b has a smaller spot so 219b have a little more throw.

Convoy s21d 219b 10degree TIR—> 170m throw
Convoy s21d 519a 10degree TIR—> 154m throw

So IF25a (with 10degree stock tir optics) has a better throw than s21d; and s21d has a better throw than wurkkos ts21 nichia 219c.

Together 219b and 519a have a beautiful light and color rendition and a beautiful tint.
Together have a good response on the red color.

I think 219b (and many other users think the same think) is the best led for color response. Tint is a little rosy and many loves this pinky tint.

519a is a good choice but a little bit below 219b.
Tint is a little yellow/golden.

So if you want more lumen go to 519a.
If want a little more throw take 219b.

If you want more thrower with nichia led you must see convoy s21a or s21b with only one led ad reflector.

If you want a mini thrower you must see noctigon d1 flashlight and you can choice many different led.

Emissary/noctigon have same different mini thrower 18650 or 21700 in catalog.

So I think s21d nichia led is a good choice as floody bar light: floody light ad impressive color rendition and contrast, I think is a perfect match with a mid thrower hi CRI flashlight gt-fc40 CRI 95 R9050 on helmet as m21f or s11 or m21b.

519a vs XPL-HD:

XPL has a lot o more lumen output than 519 and little more thrower beam.
On YouTube you can view a comparative between this leds.

which one to choose? it depends on what you prefer, how you have to use it and which torch you already own.
I think you must a single led emitter as s21a, s21b or s21e because they have more throw and a they are a better option for helmet use.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi, nice to read you.
> my s21d 219b 4500k has been shipped, it is on the road and should arrive in a couple of weeks, I also ordered a set of TIR optics.
> 
> these days I have studied the s21d. the s21d has the same TIR lens with the IF25A, so they are interchangeable.* IF25A sst20 has more throw than s21d with nichia led*.....


Well I guess I won't be buying a S21D. I don't need another torch that can't produce enough throw for helmet use. I don't need another bar lamp. I am though very impressed with the Convoy M21F with XHP70 I bought. I just more time to test it on trails. It has the throw I want and also a wide beam pattern. If it turns out I want a warmer beam tint I might just decide to buy another with a 3000K emitter. With 3000\K the output will drop some but should be an interesting beam tint when on the higher output levels. I like the UI options of the M21F. Where I live I've have to wait out 5 days of straight rain. If I'm lucky I might be able to get a ride by Friday or during the weekend. It will depend on how mucked-up the trails are though. Nothing like getting a new light and not being able to use it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm really leaning toward getting the same light Cat. I really like the idea of the xhp70's wide beam. 

I'm nearly convinced that a quad optic light really isn't going to work well from the helmet. I looked back on my criticism of the quad SST20 IF25A and the emitters just aren't driven hard enough to get the desired output (unless you jump to Turbo which will overheat/burn up your runtime). I think a dual emitter helmet light is perfect, but of course you won't find a dual emitter flashlight. So I'd rather drive a single emitter harder. 

Tonight I'm going to try running the IF25A again, but keeping it at the higher levels. I may also try my trusty ol' Convoy M1 with a nice neutral white XML2 @ 3amps (2 mode custom driver which I think is 35% & 100%). I have a feeling the single XML2 will outperform the quad SST20's for helmet use. I will have to figure out helmet mounting though (I bought a new helmet and haven't mounted a torch on this one yet (tho this one has a center channel unlike my last which was offset). 

-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

I like the if25a very much on the helmet, it has more throw than helmet flashlight like the buster 700, or the KD2, but it also has more throw than the PR1600. To use it correctly, the right thermal setup must be done, the sensor set correctly and then the stepdwon threshold must be raised to 65 celsius. so you can use it for long periods at level 7, have a lot of lumens and a lot of throw.
with this setup you can also leave it in turbo mode by letting the flashlight thermal managment.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> I'm really leaning toward getting the same light Cat. I really like the idea of the xhp70's wide beam.
> 
> I'm nearly convinced that a quad optic light really isn't going to work well from the helmet. I looked back on my criticism of the quad SST20 IF25A and the emitters just aren't driven hard enough to get the desired output (unless you jump to Turbo which will overheat/burn up your runtime). I think a dual emitter helmet light is perfect, but of course you won't find a dual emitter flashlight. So I'd rather drive a single emitter harder.
> 
> ...


 Well Garry it has become obvious to me that you and I think a lot alike. Yes, some of the single emitter XML2 or XPL's torches I have with warmer emitters come very close to the nominal high setting I use when using the IF25A. On my last trail ride I tried my old S2 which likely is using a 4000K XML2. I was surprised at how well it worked and it has a fairly wide beam pattern. On it's highest setting I think it could out-throw the IF25A ( IF25A not used on boost ) but these smaller torches on high tend to heat up fast as well. The biggest difference being that the IF25A has a much wider beam pattern and the Anduril UI which I tend to like. Like you said, the IF25A just heats up fast. That said_ it can_ work fairly well in cooler weather as long as you don't need more than 100 ft. of throw. 

I'm interested in the helmet you bought since you mentioned it has a center channel. ( _helmets with center channels are rare nowadays_ ) My helmet is as old as the hills. I'd love to buy a new helmet but this old Bell helmet I have has a perfect center channel which works with almost any moderate size torch I own. One long strap of Velcro to hold it in place and I'm good to go. _Bell_ sadly no longer makes this model. 

Today the rain stopped midday where I live. Over a five day period more than 2" with most of that being the slow / drizzle type. This means very little ended up as run-off which means the ground is probably going to be very much saturated. This being the case Saturday or Sunday is likely going to be the best chance I get to try a night trail ride. ( that or wait till next week ) The downside is that the forecast for night time temperatures on Sat. and Sunday look to be very cold! ( into the 40's!  Oh Cat***t ) Makes my ♟️ shrink just to think of it. 

*A.Argo* has convinced me that the 4-mode setting on the M21F is the more useful UI. Playing around with it in my home the 40% mode looks like it just might be the "Cat's Meow". Even the 10% mode looks like it might be useful for slower riding on smooth open non-technical trails. More on that when I get to test it again outside. CAt


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

You guys!
Convoy M21F XHP70 4000k I really didn't need is on its way to me. On board charging pushed me over the line.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat, my new helmet is the Giro Fixture MIPS. I really like it. 

Last night I rode with the IF25a on my helmet the entire night (about 1hr 30mins use) using it in the stepped ramping mode and using the top two levels (not Turbo, but occasionally blasting Turbo just to see what it was like). My IF25a was thermally calibrated when I first got it (can't remember if I bumped the threshold up or not - might be in the IF25a thread). Last night's ride the temperature was 60F and dropped to +/-55F, not exactly cold. The IF25a never got too hot, just nice and warm, so it never kicked down due to temperature regulation. The light was actyalky better in use than I remember. The beam is quite wide with gorgeous tint and color rendering (very much realistic true colors), but throw seems a tad weak (though for twisty-turny singletrack like I rode last night it was just fine). I did not check the battery level after the ride, but like I said, had no trouble using it for 1hr 30mins of riding. Note that I was running my modded BT40S on the bars (quad Nichia 219C), but generally only kept it on low where it provides extremely wide flood however only throws a short distance. 

Tried the Convoy M1 XML2 when stopped a few times and it's more of a thrower with dimmer narrower spill. Throws way more than the IF25a, but the IF25a's wider beam is more useable (to me). The M1 might be a better choice for road or rail-trail riding where you do need more throw because you're moving much faster. 

Let me try to post a couple pics (cell phone, so take them with a grain of salt):

IF25a:









Convoy M1:









Camera was against my chest to try to get the full view. Trying to take pics from above/behind my helmet didn't work so well.

Helmet mounting (was a bit awkward, but held tight and never moved). The aim was perfect. 



















Random pic just because I like it:









-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> You guys!
> Convoy M21F XHP70 4000k I really didn't need is on its way to me. On board charging pushed me over the line.


Yes, the on-board charging is a nice feature. You can even run the light on any mode while charging although I'm sure at some point there would be a step down when the battery voltage begins to really drop. Not a big issue for me as I'm happy I can switch out a battery every hour or so depending on the need. I'm just glad I can recharge the battery without taking it out when I get home. My 4-bay 18650 charger won't charge 20700 cells. Thankfully both my IF25A and the new Convoy M21F torches have on board charging. I do need to buy another USB-C cable though so I can charge two 20700 cells at the same time.....znomit, Hope things are going well down under.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's my test results for the three highest modes on my Ravemen LR1600. Most used third level a little over 4.5 hrs @ 600-700 lumens.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my posts on the Convoy M21F ( 4000K XHP70.2 ) *

Last night I got to take the M21F on it's first real trail ride ( helmet mounted ) ( Fireflies E07 on the bars ). I decided to use the M21F on the 4-mode menu. Most of the time I was keeping it on the 40% mode. It was very cool last night. More like what we normally get in late fall ( 45°F ). Trail conditions were very good considering all the rain we had last week. Still, lots of damp fallen leaves and most trail surfaces were damp as well. This means any light you are using doesn't carry as far as when surfaces are dry. That said I was very pleased with how the M21F performed. The beam tint is not quite as warm as the Fireflies E07 (4000K - 7 XPL HI's) I use for my bar lamp. That said the two beam patterns blended very well and I was not missing much detail in the trails I was riding. Keep in mind I'd likely been able to see better if trails were dryer and with less leaf cover. Because of the cool temperature I was not really planning on riding too long. At least I dressed warm enough so I didn't have to rush.

At one point I stopped to do a distance measurement of what I felt the "usable throw" was when using the 40% setting. IMO it came out to roughly 140 ft. More than adequate for the root infested ( short lines of sight ) twisty trails I was riding. I tried taking a photo using my phone camera but because much of the light is wide, I was getting a lot of reflective feedback from closer trees I was standing next to. This effected how the distance exposure of the camera was working and wasn't representing what I was actually seeing when riding. ( Next time I'll choose a spot where I'm not standing close to trees ).

When making my way back to the car I came upon a section of trail where there was a pretty decent straightaway. This is the spot I should of chosen for the photo as not too many trees next to the trail. While riding this snippet of trail I upped my speed and hit the boost on the M21F. Absolutely awesome output on high/boost! All the distance throw I could want. This should come in handy when I ride other venues where I get some faster moving trails or downhills.

On a side note I should mention that I also tested the 10% mode. Actually this is the mode to use if on more moderate trails. Usable throw on this mode was roughly 50ft. ( IMO ) With dryer / lighter colored trails maybe a bit more. I think the only negative I had to deal with was trying to find the switch button which is even more harder when wearer full finger gloves. Hopefully with more practice I'll get better at finding the switch when riding.

I really didn't track how long I rode. Maybe 45 minutes??? Since I was using both lamps at roughly 40-50% output, when I got home both 20700 cells I used read 3.9 volts. I should also mention that I was concerned how the the batteries would perform since temps were quite cool. As far as I could tell there were no negative battery issues at the temperature I was riding. I was glad of this because the bike I ride is an e-assist bike and was worried how the cold would effect that as well. No problems thankfully


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi Cat-man-do,
you have a good setup.
Do you drive E07 at level 6 or 7?
Overall with the E07 and the M21F on 40% how many total lumens do you think you have?
I will also try a similar setup but with the S21d instead of the E07.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback Cat! Still itchin'. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A.Argo said:


> Hi Cat-man-do,
> you have a good setup.
> Do you drive E07 at level 6 or 7?
> Overall with the E07 and the M21F on 40% how many total lumens do you think you have?
> I will also try a similar setup but with the S21d instead of the E07.


I don't use the digital ramp with the E07, I use the analog ramp up/down. Generally what I do with the E07 is set it to an output that will let me see well to over 100 ft. Once set I compare it to the boost setting ( double click to boost / double click back to last setting ). That's why I refer to it as set to 50%. Judging the lumen output I use with both lamps is a tough call. Someone on AliExpress who reviewed the M21F referred to the 40% mode as 1500 lumen. That might be right but I would judge it to be more like 1200 but only because a lot of the light is projected to the sides as it provides quite a flood beam. Flood beam light sources are hard to judge lumen output by eye. The same holds true for the Fireflies E07 as both have wide beam patterns. Best I can do is estimate 1500 for the 21F and 1200 lumen for the E07 as my normal setting points.

I have a link to the photo I took of the E07 last night. The double tree in the distance is about 140 ft. away. > link. Notice the warm tint of the beam pattern pattern and how wide it is. The M21F is a little cooler tint, maybe in the 4500K range even thought it was suppose to be 4000K. Then again some of the AliExpress ads list's the Kelvin rating for the one I bought as between 4000-4500K. The current ads are no longer listing the possible highest lumen output.

WTH....I might as well post the photo of the M21F at 40%, even though the tree to the left is reflecting back a lot of light and ruining how well the camera sees into the distance (140 ft. like the other ) As you can see the tint is a bit cooler. This is why I call it 4500K as the most likely kelvin rating.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Thanks for the feedback Cat! Still itchin'.
> 
> -Garry


CAt scratch fever getting to you?😸 When I took my ride last night I completely forgot that I brought along my Convoy M21B ( used to be called just M21 ) that has a 5-mode UI with XPL-HI at 4000K. That torch has very much the same beam tint as my E07 but has a more concentrated beam pattern. Has decent throw on high but does heat up if left on high. Of course the 21B's are 18650 torches. Nevertheless I wanted to compare it to my new M21F. Ticked now that I forgot all about bringing it. 

I wanted to do a ride tonight but had chores to do and didn't want to do a late start. Once again though, 45°F is no incentive to get my cat-butt out for a ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued review of the Convoy M21F ( XHP70.2 4000K ) *

Well tonight I got home and with a full Moon calling my name ( along with great trail conditions ) I decided to skip dinner and give the M21F another trail ride. This time I'd go a little longer. I don't know why but when you Mt. bike you never know when something bad is going to happen. Tonight while approaching a rocky stream crossing I somehow lost my balance just as I was going through a downhill section of rocks just before the stream. Turns out the rocks were wet which was unexpected. Once I knew I was losing it I unclipped and tried to control the fall. Never did actually hit the ground but to control the bike after stepping out I tweaked my right Lat. Damn this pissed me off. I probably pulled other muscles as well. I thought about turning around and going home but decided that since I was not in pain at the time I'd go back up the hill and do it again. Second time round no problem. I figured later that the trail I was on had likely seen a lot of riders today and so their tires likely carried water from the stream a good ways along the trail. Much of the trail looked as though it had rained but today it did not rain, skies crystal clear all day. Some of the moisture likely caused by dew as temps were in the 54°F range.

Below are two photos of the M21F on 40% and the one photo on high. The first photo is the M21F ( helmet mounted ) on 40% output. The second photo the same 40% output. The tree in the middle of the second and third photo is just over 150 ft. away. The third photo is the M21F on high ( 100% ). As you can see the beam pattern is quite wide.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Last night I took a ride on a fast and easy trail. The goal was not to take a bike ride but to take some photos and measurements of this TS30S with luminous SBT90.2 5700k 70CRI. 
I say right away that it is not a good choice for cycling. I was hoping it could do better on the heat, battery life and total lumen output, but in the end what shines twice is half as long.









it is bigger and heavier than an average flashlight, it is power hungry and it gets very hot ... but hey ... it is also a monster of power and very fun to use in turbo.
From level 5 up to the turbo it lights up practically day, not only in the distance but also in the near distance.
I only used this flashlight on my helmet for about 20 minutes and it was fun, then I changed the battery, cooled it down and took some pictures.


ISO 1000
26mm f1.6
1/21s
WB5000
Control-5-6-7-turbo:









turbo:










ISO 1000
26mm f1.6
1/21s
WB5000
340m 1115ft
Control-5-6-7-turbo:










340m 1115ft
turbo:










640m 2099ft
Turbo:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks A.Argo! I finally put in my order for my Convoy M21F Xhp70.2 4000k (I requested an xhp70.3, but got no response to my request) and got shipping notice next day. I'll be lucky to get a ride in with it before snow hits. (We've already had our first snow.). 

-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Hi garrybunk,
Can I ask you where you sent message to Simon?
did you leave a note in the order to insert a led XHP70.3 (HD version or HI version??) ? or you have sent a message in the private chat on aliexpress?
he generally replies immediately, but lately on budgetlight forum he is receiving a lot of requests for modding and customizations, so I noticed that it takes a little longer to reply to all, but generally it does not take more than 2 days.
If he hasn't answered you and sent the package, he probably already installed the new XHP70.3.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

What the difference between the 70.2 and 70.3??


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Here a difference between the old 70.2 domed vs the new 70.3 Hi (de-domed), but there is also a dome version of the xhp70.3.
On the CREE manufacturer's website you can find all the info you are looking for.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A.Argo, I simply requested "upgrade to xhp70.3 in the 4,000k to 4,500k range" in the order comments. Wonder if I'll even be able to tell the difference when it arrives?

-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

For a few days I have been using my latest headlamp, an Armytek Wizard C2 pro Max with 21700 battery, XHP70.2 led, 4000 peak lumens led and as you can see from the photo, two safety o-rings for the water as in the products dedicated to diving.
It is a flashlight that ships with several accessories, including a bicycle holder.
The bicycle mount is really sturdy and firm, I didn't think it was that solid and the rubber ring is just an extra security.
It's a super flood torch, so on the handlebar it's perfect.
I am thinking of making a comparison between PR1600 low beam, S21D with the 30 ° and 60 ° degree optics and this C2 pro max.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> What the difference between the 70.2 and 70.3??


According to photo that A.Argo posted it looks like the 70.3 will produce a more intense hot spot in respect to 70.2, although I suspect that it will still be a quite large hotspot...which in IMO should be a good thing especially when using the 40% mode which most of us will use most of the time. Now if you can get the 70.3 in a 4000K emitter the next question will be: "What is the better option for Convoy M21F...XHP70.3 or GT-FC40 emitter in the same Kelvin range"? Which will be brighter, have the better throw and which has the best CRI??? I'm going to order another myself even though I won't be able to use it much till next year. Decisions, decisions! 

@A.Argo....You need to explain better how we go about making a special order on AliExpress. Is there a contact link I'm not seeing?


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

You can send a message to Simon, Convoy owner.
Here link of Convoy flashlight store:


Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com



or you can add a note on your purchase, but i think that is better to send a message first.

About XHP 70.3 there are 2 version:
1) HD with dome
2) HI without dome












HI led has a better throw and less tint shift, but a little less lumen.
For throw you must choice HI version, for flood and more lumen HD version.

4000k 90CRI and 5700k 90 CRI i think they are the best choice.
So when you write to Simon you have to ask what model of XHP70.3 is available, if the HD or HI version, in what color temperature and what CRI value.


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

Does anybody have experience with the Vastfire lights on Amazon? I just bought a Nightrider Lumina 900 Micro but after reading this forum and a few other posts on runtimes I'm not convinced it will be enough light for the bars for night mountain biking. My dream is the Outbound Trail Evo but my budget is more $150ish. 

I also see Ceco and Cygolight both have a dual led model out now (F2000 and Ranger 2000) but the specs don't really say much and I can't find any reviews yet.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

A.Argo said:


> For a few days I have been using my latest headlamp, an Armytek Wizard C2 pro Max with 21700 battery, XHP70.2 led, 4000 peak lumens led and as you can see from the photo, two safety o-rings for the water as in the products dedicated to diving.
> It is a flashlight that ships with several accessories, including a bicycle holder.
> The bicycle mount is really sturdy and firm, I didn't think it was that solid and the rubber ring is just an extra security.
> It's a super flood torch, so on the handlebar it's perfect.
> I am thinking of making a comparison between PR1600 low beam, S21D with the 30 ° and 60 ° degree optics and this C2 pro max.



Same pictures of Armytek Wizard C2 Pro Max (left) and Ravemen PR1600 (right):

WB5000k:










Color temperature:
PR1600 have a warmer light than Wizard.
I prefer temperature of PR1600 but it has a green cast which is not very annoying anyway.

Beam:
PR1600 has a good cut-off beam profile for road use and illuminates near the wheel and on the sides of the bicycle, which is also good in off-road.
Wizard C2 has a very flood beam, not the best on the road, but it does its duty off-road.

Power:
PR1600 low beam only 800 lumen, but they are sufficient.
Wizard 4000 peak lumen, but for a long use I think they are definitely less than half, but still more than the ravemen.

Driver:
Wizard has a boost driver, and constant brightness when the battery is drained; there is no flicekring of the light.
PR1600 when the battery goes down, it also lowers the brightness and above all it has a flickering that can be seen sometimes with the naked eye, especially when the battery is drained. Generally it is not noticed, but on several occasions both outdoors and at home I happened to observe it and personally I do not like it.

Taking a few photos you can see the PMW or flickering very well.



















Next days I will do other measurements and more importantly a comparison between different flashlights with live photos.
Bye


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

double post, sorry.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Well looks like the 70.3 is worth the extra money. Kaidomain has both now and 8 dollar difference. Both say 3000 lumens but I have the older 70.2 and it's realistically 1800 or so on high. I'm assuming the 70.3 might be a bit brighter. However, the Lux is lower on the 70.3 so I'm not understanding that I guess. Maybe wider beam?? I like these b/c I can blast them on high and they don't overheat like the RN3500 does. How much brighter do you think the 70.3 is realistically.






KDLITKER BL70S LED Bike Light


KDLITKER BL70S Cree XHP70_2 3000 Lumens 4-Mode High Power LED Bike Light




kaidomain.com










KDLITKER BL70S Bike Light


KDLITKER BL70S Cree XHP70.3 3000 Lumens 4-Mode High Power LED Bike Light




kaidomain.com


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

I had a bad experience with Kaidomain, so i won't buy from them anymore. 
on the product I had purchased the data sheet was incorrect, so I no longer trust what they write. if you already have the model with xhp70.2 i think it is cheaper to buy only the led, from their store, but i would buy xhp70.3hi and not xhp70.3hd.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mb323323 said:


> I like these b/c I can blast them on high and they don't overheat like the RN3500 does.


Puzzled that your RN3500 overheats. Mine dims down considerably from startup but I blame that on the way Magicshine has the light regulated as it will return to near startup levels if you shut the light off and then on again. While not practical to keep turning it off to maintain max output it's still easy enough to do for an upcoming downhill and even at the lower regulated level it has similar max lux to my 2500 lumen Gloworm XS and reasonable operating temperatures.
Mole


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yes Mole I probably shouldn't have said overheat as I've never kept it on high long enough to actually overheat it. What I meant to say was the light head gets extremely hot so I turn it down to low, then medium when it cools down. Really it can't be used on high or boost at slow speeds. Also I'm in Coastal Ca so I'm never using it below about 50F so maybe if it's a colder climate it responds better. I may just spring for the 70.3 since it's 44 bucks. Of course I don't need another light but you know what they say..................


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

mb323323 said:


> How much brighter do you think the 70.3 is realistically?


According to my quick review of the data sheets (both HD versions, not looking at the HI) they seem spec'd nearly identical. The only difference I'm seeing is that the 70.3 has an ever so slightly lower forward voltage (vF) which could mean an ever so slight (nearly insignificant?) increase in runtime and also staying ever so slightly brighter during it's runtime (though again, probably insignificant). Seems the biggest advantages are in beam pattern, tint, and availability of an HI version. I'd not upgrade unless you want to switch to the HI version (i.e. increase throw at expense of dimmer spill). 

-Garry


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Well, I went ahead and ordered one so I'll report back what differences I see if any. Maybe save you all 45 bucks. LOL


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

After using the Ravemen PR900 for a month now riding singletrack mountain bike trails in the woods at night, I can give it a great review and maybe help others to think about how many lumens to think about when selecting a light. The PR900 is a 800 lumen light at it's highest usable setting. I should also say that I dont use a secondary light such as a helmet-mounted light.

While I like high lumens, I also like a self-contained headlight that's not tethered to a battery and cable/cord, that also is an efficient & small package. Self-contained is at the mercy of it's integrated battery, so often times a self-contained headlight may not have a long runtime at it's higher lumen output settings.

Since I like to ride at night for an average of 2 hours, the Ravemen PR900 fits the bill for me. But....the PR900 only has a runtime of 2 hours on it's highest setting of 800 lumens so I have been using it on it's medium setting (500 lumens) which has a 4 hour runtime. 500 lumens is plenty of light for me and the type of riding i do. I am not bombing down steep terrain where i need to see more than 100' in front of me lit up like a sunny day. For anyone like myself who does XC mountain biking at night with moderate descents...500-800 Lumens should be more than adequate, and I dare to say that any more than that is unneccesary.

I think you would be surprised how the difference between 500 and 800 lumens is not very big. The beam pattern of the PR900 makes up for it though, and other brands of lights may have a bigger difference in light quality at those lumen outputs. There is a big difference between the medium and low setting though (500 vs 300 lumens). 300 Lumens definitely leaves you wanting more strength.

With the PR900..switching between the high and medium setting is a single touch of a button (either on the light or from it's wired remote). If I want to, I will switch between the two for additional lumens on certain sections of decents...but I rarely do and don't need to. By doing this you conserve a lot of runtime. Technically you would get about 3 hours of runtime if you ran the PR900 on high going downhill, and medium on the flats and uphill.

So while I do admire some of the higher lumen lights, my advise to anyone on a budget thinking about how many lumens they need to do leisurely to moderate singletrack mountain biking at night, with a simple setup such as a self-contained handlebar-mounted headlight...you may be as pleasantly surprised and satisfied as I am with 500-800 lumens, and the Ravemen PR900's beam pattern, size, and weight, is a very efficient little setup for around $65

I should also say that i bought the PR800 before I bought the PR900. The PR800 has a less robust handlebar mount and has the same lumens but a smaller battery, and no LED indicator of hours left of battery runtime. If I am going out for ride shorter than 2 hours, the PR800 comes with me, and it's compatible with the handlebar clamp of the PR900. You can also buy additional Ravemen handlebar mounts on Amazon (the more robust version that comes with the PR900) for about $10 in case you want to leave mounts on more than 1 bike for use of the same Ravemen headlight on several bikes. The PR800 is about the same size only a little shorter in length and has a darker color aluminum housing. If you are looking at all the Ravemen products to compare, beware the higher lumen lights and larger internal batteries do not all offer longer battery runtimes. As a starting point for which light to choose...determine how many hours you like to ride at night, and see which models have enough battery power to afford you that runtime.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Once again burning the midnight oil; Doing some web searches I finally found the Fireflies E07 on line like the one I already own and use as my go-to Mt. bike bar light. ( well, actually I use it on the road too ). Finally found the version that offers it with the ( 7 x XPL Hi ) 4000K like the one I have. I absolutely love the beam tint on the one I have. The website I found it on is called Neals Gadgets. ( they are going to love me for providing the link... They also offer the E07 with a Nichia 4500K 219B emitter version which might offer the user a "rosier beam tint". Thing is the 219B emmitter is not going to have the lumen output or throw of the 4000K XPL Hi version. However if used on the bars in combo with a helmet lamp, this might not be much of an issue since these are using the Anduril UI and can be adjusted as needed. They also offer a 4000K and 5000K SST-20 version but like the 219B I don't think they will have the throw of the 4000K XPL Hi. Anyway, the one I have has the perfect mix of wide beam ( 20° TRI optic ) and decent throw with the brighter outputs. Interestingly, NG offeres these with an optional 21770 battery end cap. Personally I didn't know they made 21770 cells but these I think are just a 21700 cell designed with a USB-C port built into the battery. Hence the end cap is likely just a tad longer.

I should also mention that there is another newer updated version of the Fireflies torches called, "Fireflylite". AliExpress has a couple versions of those but none that seemed to offered it with the XPL Hi 4000K emitter. Anyway I don't recommend these as helmet lights even though the XPL Hi versions have some decent throw. I just feel they work better off the bars when using the warmer tints.


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

Can anyone give more opinion and experience with the Magicshine's handlebar mount? I am interested in the RN3000 but I'm a little worried that the mount won't hold up to the weight. I ride rocky and rooty trails and any mount is put to the test with that kind of constant stress. Mole...how would you rate the Magicshine mount compared to the Ravemen mounts? I wish the Magicshine mount was more rigid...those rubber/silicone strap-style mounts give me pause. The Ravemen stays put. I know you can buy other Garmin mounts to work with the Magicshine. Maybe the one below would be a stronger mount?


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## ELmRidge (4 mo ago)

These are Amazon reviews of the Magicshine handlebar mount that comes with the Magicshine...


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> Once again burning the midnight oil; Doing some web searches I finally found the Fireflies E07 on line like the one I already own and use as my go-to Mt. bike bar light. ( well, actually I use it on the road too ). Finally found the version that offers it with the ( 7 x XPL Hi ) 4000K like the one I have. I absolutely love the beam tint on the one I have. The website I found it on is called Neals Gadgets. ( they are going to love me for providing the link... They also offer the E07 with a Nichia 4500K 219B emitter version which might offer the user a "rosier beam tint". Thing is the 219B emmitter is not going to have the lumen output or throw of the 4000K XPL Hi version. However if used on the bars in combo with a helmet lamp, this might not be much of an issue since these are using the Anduril UI and can be adjusted as needed. They also offer a 4000K and 5000K SST-20 version but like the 219B I don't think they will have the throw of the 4000K XPL Hi. Anyway, the one I have has the perfect mix of wide beam ( 20° TRI optic ) and decent throw with the brighter outputs. Interestingly, NG offeres these with an optional 21770 battery end cap. Personally I didn't know they made 21770 cells but these I think are just a 21700 cell designed with a USB-C port built into the battery. Hence the end cap is likely just a tad longer.
> 
> I should also mention that there is another newer updated version of the Fireflies torches called, "Fireflylite". AliExpress has a couple versions of those but none that seemed to offered it with the XPL Hi 4000K emitter. Anyway I don't recommend these as helmet lights even though the XPL Hi versions have some decent throw. I just feel they work better off the bars when using the warmer tints.


Nichia 219B and B35AM are my favorite LEDs. They have a beautiful tint and chromatic performance. 
They aren't the best, for efficiency, output and throw, but E07 with nichia is a good choice for a handlebar anyway.
However it must be considered that sometimes the difference in hue between the flashlight could be annoying.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

ELmRidge said:


> Can anyone give more opinion and experience with the Magicshine's handlebar mount? I am interested in the RN3000 but I'm a little worried that the mount won't hold up to the weight. I ride rocky and rooty trails and any mount is put to the test with that kind of constant stress. Mole...how would you rate the Magicshine mount compared to the Ravemen mounts? I wish the Magicshine mount was more rigid...those rubber/silicone strap-style mounts give me pause. The Ravemen stays put. I know you can buy other Garmin mounts to work with the Magicshine. Maybe the one below would be a stronger mount?


I like the MS Garmin mount for its ease of use and solid mounting (no beam bounce) but I have broken one in a crash so it is more fragile than the Ravemen mount and because the RN3000 is a fairly long light it requires additional side to side clearance because of the 90° mounting rotation required. Not sure how relevant my opinion is though since my RN3000 has seen minimal trail use and less abusive trail conditions than you describe.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I can't give an opinion on the MagicShine mounts but the mounts used on the Ravemen PR series are really hard to work with in my opinion. Since the PR series lamps are heavier, you'd of thought Ravemen would have provided bar mounts that were more beefy and easier to work with. I own a PR1200. In the few times that I've used it the light itself works fine but even when I use friction tape on the bars, the mount ( being made of flexible plastic ) is really hard to get tight enough because the part which the thumb screw goes into will flex inward the more you tighten the screw. This makes it very hard to get the screw tight enough to prevent the lamp from moving. Some of this is also because the mount is not centered on the lamp which makes most of the weight of the lamp being forward. With more weight forward this makes it more prone to dip down if going over rough trails. 

Now if you can get the mount tight enough so the lamp doesn't move and this is your go-to bar lamp than just use the quick release to remove the lamp and leave the mount on the bars. Otherwise if you have to mess with the actual mount it is a total PITA, more so if your handlebars taper. 

Looking on the Ravemen website they do offer an alternative mount called ABM08. This looks to be a hard plastic bar mount with a hinge. If the plastic is indeed "hard" then the thumb screw area shouldn't flex. As long as the slide-in quick-release is the same it would make a great upgrade to the older PR series lamps. Still, this would all work better with an adjustable clamp like you see on some of the cheaper Amazon ( Chinese ) multi-emitter lamps.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Received my Convoy M21F yesterday. Pics and discussion in A.Argo's M21F review thread. 

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Stumbled across what seems to be an Astrolux BL03 rebranded and shipped from Amazon: https://a.co/d/12MMakx . Does not show the GoPro mount, but I bet it comes with it. Specs are inflated of course. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Stumbled across what seems to be an Astrolux BL03 rebranded and shipped from Amazon: https://a.co/d/12MMakx . Does not show the GoPro mount, but I bet it comes with it. Specs are inflated of course.
> 
> -Garry


It's unfortunate that they feel they need to inflate the output specs. to such ridiculous extremes. Takes the credibility away from a pretty decent 1300ish lumen light that's a good value. With all the different name brand lights I have I use my Astrolux version quite often.
Mole


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

And I randomly bought what looks like the same thing for about $40 a couple of weeks ago:








Amazon.com : Best Bike Lights for Night Riding 2022 Most Powerful Mountain Bike Light 8000 Rechargeable Bicycle Lights Front Rear MTB Light Enduro Trail Riding Brightest Headlight Off-Road Cycling Commuting : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : Best Bike Lights for Night Riding 2022 Most Powerful Mountain Bike Light 8000 Rechargeable Bicycle Lights Front Rear MTB Light Enduro Trail Riding Brightest Headlight Off-Road Cycling Commuting : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





It says 1200 lumens on the actual box and that seems about right.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Buttons look slightly different, but otherwise looks like pretty much the same light. Love the product description going into detail about tint & CRI! As if they really did deal directly with the manufacturer and really did spec high CRI emitters! I also spotted a 6-emitter version which I've not seen before (Amazon Link): https://a.co/d/5zX5Wl8

-Garry


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

garrybunk said:


> Buttons look slightly different, but otherwise looks like pretty much the same light. Love the product description going into detail about tint & CRI! As if they really did deal directly with the manufacturer and really did spec high CRI emitters! I also spotted a 6-emitter version which I've not seen before (Amazon Link): https://a.co/d/5zX5Wl8
> 
> -Garry


Would that be a clone of the Astrolux BL-06? Except the amazon link says 5200 mAH battery and BL-06 says 10,000. 








Astrolux® BL06 3+3 LEDs 2000LM Bike Headlight Dual Distance Beam 10000mAh Phone Power Bank Bike Light USB Rechargeable LED Handlebar Flashlight for Electric Bike Electric Scooter MTB Bicycle


Only US$59.95, buy best Astrolux® BL06 3+3 LEDs 2000LM Bike Headlight Dual Distance Beam 10000mAh Phone Power Bank Bike Light USB Rechargeable LED Handlebar Flashlight for Electric Bike Electric Scooter MTB Bicycle sale online store at wholesale price.




usa.banggood.com


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm, I never came across the BL06. I'm sure it's the same light re-branded. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> *It's unfortunate that they feel they need to inflate the output specs. to such ridiculous extremes.* Takes the credibility away from a pretty decent 1300ish lumen light that's a good value. With all the different name brand lights I have I use my Astrolux version quite often.
> Mole


I have to agree with you 100%. Plus they seem to get the battery capacity wrong on many of these ads. One of these lamps ( mentioned in the discussion ) claimed to have 17 different modes...gee, that would be fun to mess with while on the fly.  At least most of them look to have very nice mounts which should hold their place on the bars very well.

I like that some of these multi-emitter lamps are using combo lenses designed to spread the beam pattern out as well as provide at least one emitter with a spot for more throw. Now the real "bug in the butt" when it comes to these cheap Chinese lamps is going to be, "What type of LED are you getting and is there any odd over tint when using such a lamp"? The worst are going to have a "Bluish" over-tone or perhaps some "greenish tint". The one sold by the Vastfire store is claiming to use Cree XML-U2's. If true you likely will have a nice white beam pattern. Then again when you buy a cheap off-brand self-contained Chinese knock-off lamp you won't know what kind of beam pattern or LED color you will get until you actual have it in your hot little hands. I'm not saying not to buy one but just keep in mind when you do you are rolling the dice...is this going to be a win or a lose.  

So far I've only been lucky one time out of three. Two self-contained off-brand lamps I've bought ( one from Bangood the other off of Amazon ( the Amazon one a two emitter lamp ) both had bluish off-tints that I just hated. The only one I've bought off Amazon that was a win-win was the Ceco 1000 ( which is a knock-off clone of one of the Cygolite series lamps ). The Ceco 1000 ( single emitter ) had a very nice white color to the beam and a nice beam pattern. 

If I were to buy one of the lamps mentioned in the last few posts I'd likely roll the dice on the Vastfire ( three emitter ) sold on Amazon. I looked at the videos and I like the idea that the outer side LED's are apparently lower Kelvin rated than the center LED. If I were to use a lamp like this I'd likely use only the two outer emitters and rely on my helmet lamp for distance throw. That said a lot would depend on the mode options when trying the different outputs / modes. Keep in mind though that although the ad claims Cree emitters you can never trust everything that are written in the ads.


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> If I were to buy one of the lamps mentioned in the last few posts I'd likely roll the dice on the Vastfire ( three emitter ) sold on Amazon. I looked at the videos and I like the idea that the outer side LED's are apparently lower Kelvin rated than the center LED. If I were to use a lamp like this I'd likely use only the two outer emitters and rely on my helmet lamp for distance throw. That said a lot would depend on the mode options when trying the different outputs / modes. Keep in mind though that although the ad claims Cree emitters you can never trust everything that are written in the ads.


I'll have to get an image hosting website and post some beam patterns. The middle LED is a spot and noticeably higher color temp than the floods - bluish white even bluer than my Niterider micro 900. The floods are more yellow so its an interesting combo when both are on.


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

Spot only










Flood only 









Both


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Shredder32 said:


> I'll have to get an image hosting website and post some beam patterns. The middle LED is a spot and noticeably higher color temp than the floods - bluish white even bluer than my Niterider micro 900. The floods are more yellow so its an interesting combo when both are on.


My 2 Astrolux lights (BL02/BL03) are the same. If I remember they claimed 6500K for the spot and 4000K for the floods. Normally I don't care for mixing tints but seems to work OK. 
Mole


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Back when I got the BL02 and 03 I used a phone app to measure the color temps. I got 6600K for the HI beam and 4800K for the LO on the BL03. The BL02 was similar with 6500K HI and 4500K LO.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*@ Shredder32;* Thanks for posting those beam pics of the Vastfire triple output. This is exactly why you can't trust any of the photos or videos that are used in the ads. That middle emitter is definitely not a Cree emitter because no Cree LED would produce that Blue of a tint. That middle emitter is so blue I almost can't believe it. The lamps that I own only had a trace of blue and that was enough for me to hate it. Now on the one you have I would try to find some slightly yellow / thin translucent plastic and cut enough to cover the middle emitter. This should whiten the output although it might drop the throw a bit. Now if it were possible to mode the lamp and replace the emitter I'd replace it with the appropriate Cree emitter close to the 5000-5700K range. Anyway, knowing that that center emitter is that blue no way would I buy one of these unless I planned on modding it.


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

@Cat-man-do Yes the center spot is definitely blue shifted - even more so than the Lumina Micro 900 which I thought is pretty blue-white as well. I'll try and take some pics on a white background tonight showing them side by side. I probably should have set my camera to manual white balance or something but the pictures look pretty close to what my eyes saw. 

The light is built pretty solid with an aluminum chassis. The mounts are decent but had some extra material on the shoe from molding which prevented the light from being slid on until I sanded it down just a bit. I guess you get what you pay for - I wouldn't spend more than the $40 I have into it.

I'm currently eyeballing the Cygolite Ranger 2000 and Ceco F2000 clone which just came out. They look to be the same but the Ranger has the unique ability to adjust the brightness of each level and thus the runtime in each mode where the Ceco has fixed brightness levels. Cygolite doesn't say that much on the description highlighting that feature so I talked to their customer service to confirm. It also looks like the Cygolite has the vertical diffuser lens so probably throws a wider beam than the Ceco but I can't find any reviews yet to confirm. 

Cygolite Ranger 2000








Amazon.com : Cygolite Ranger 2,000 Lumen Endurance Bicycle Light– Ultra High Run Time– 9 Light Modes– Fine Tuneable Brightness- IP67 Waterproof– USB Rechargeable– Road & Mountain : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : Cygolite Ranger 2,000 Lumen Endurance Bicycle Light– Ultra High Run Time– 9 Light Modes– Fine Tuneable Brightness- IP67 Waterproof– USB Rechargeable– Road & Mountain : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





Ceco F2000








Amazon.com : CECO-USA: 2,000 Lumen USB Rechargeable Bike Light – Tough & Durable IP67 Waterproof & FL1 Impact Resistant– Super Bright F2000 Bicycle Headlight – for Commuters, Road Cyclists & Mountain Bikers, F9 : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : CECO-USA: 2,000 Lumen USB Rechargeable Bike Light – Tough & Durable IP67 Waterproof & FL1 Impact Resistant– Super Bright F2000 Bicycle Headlight – for Commuters, Road Cyclists & Mountain Bikers, F9 : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





Does anybody know anything more about these new lights? 

I back calculated the runtimes based on the assumed 2000 Lumens for the Ceco. 


BrightnessLumensSpecsHoursMinutesTotal MinutesHigh2000​Claimed1​15​75​Medium high1000​Calculated 2​30​150​Medium556​Calculated 4​30​270​Low357​Calculated 7​0​420​

I have been looking for something to put on the bars that will run 2 hours at the highest brightness I can get - preferably over 1500 lumens if possible but less than $200. Perhaps I should just save up and go Outbound Trail Evo. My other thought was a Magicshine Ray 2600 unless anyone has a better suggestion.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Shredder32 said:


> @Cat-man-do Yes the center spot is definitely blue shifted - even more so than the Lumina
> I'm currently eyeballing the Cygolite Ranger 2000 and Ceco F2000 clone which just came out. They look to be the same but the Ranger has the unique ability to adjust the brightness of each level and thus the runtime in each mode where the Ceco has fixed brightness levels. Cygolite doesn't say that much on the description highlighting that feature so I talked to their customer service to confirm. It also looks like the Cygolite has the vertical diffuser lens so probably throws a wider beam than the Ceco but I can't find any reviews yet to confirm.
> 
> Does anybody know anything more about these new lights?
> ...


Thanks for the Cygolite info. Adjustable preset levels is a nice addition for the Ranger 2000. Having owned the Ceco 1000/1200 and the corresponding Cygolite models they were cloned from I'd always go with the Cygolite models for bar use. Vertical veins molded in the lens cover spread the light horizontally and give a much better/wider beam pattern.

Magicshine Ray 2600 is a nice light but my one beef is the vertical aim difference between the spot and elliptical optics. The focal point of the elliptical optic is so much lower than the spot it flood the foreground with light and limits how bright you can run the light without creating too much reflective glare IMO.
Molr


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Magicshine Ray 2600 is a nice light but my one beef is the vertical aim difference between the spot and elliptical optics. The focal point of the elliptical optic is so much lower than the spot it flood the foreground with light and limits how bright you can run the light without creating too much reflective glare IMO.


I don't entirely disagree about the Ray 2600, but the very property that you dislike is the one that makes it my favorite road light right now. By having the two beams vertically separated I can run them at full power _on pavement_ and not have either beam overpower me. In comparison the RN-3000 with similar total output has both beams largely overlapping and the combo is too much for me to run at full power unless I aim it high enough to avoid hitting the road anywhere close to the bike. This comparison may not be valid for MTB where the terrain varies in height and reflectance a lot more than on the street (and throwing a pile of light downrange can be more useful), so your criticism may be entirely valid. I just find the 2600 gives me a lot more pleasing beam on the road and one in which I can readily use full power.


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

So would you say the ray 2600 is best for road and rn3000 for mtb?


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I haven't tried every light out there, but right now the Ray 2600 is my favorite road light.

My opinion of the RN-3000 is more mixed. It puts out a pile of power and has plenty of battery capacity, but it's too heavy for a helmet light (for me anyway) and the mount is a bit weak for a bar light on a bike that's riding on rough terrain. Others may have a better opinion of it, but for me it's not really ideal as an MTB light. 

It's a decent road light, though I much prefer the beam profile of the 2600. Where it excels is simple duration. It'll put out a still quite bright 1500 lumens for almost 5 hours and a very useable 750 all night. So it's handy for long rides (or multiple rides without recharging). It's also really good as a daylight flasher for road use. Most lights have a fairly mild output in flashing mode. The RN-3000 blasts out all 3000 lumens and you will definitely be seen. When I'm going to be riding on roads with lots of fast traffic I'll sometimes throw on the 3000 just for that. I recognize that isn't really making a strong case for the light though, and honestly I wouldn't have gotten one if I hadn't found a really good deal on one a few months back.

For MTB these days I prefer external battery lights. It's the only way I can get enough power on my helmet without too much weight. There isn't as strong a case for external batteries in a bar light (and lots of good self-contained bar lights have been mentioned in this thread), but I just roll that way to have all my lights compatible.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Shredder32 said:


> I'm currently eyeballing the Cygolite Ranger 2000 and Ceco F2000 clone which just came out. They look to be the same but the Ranger has the unique ability to adjust the brightness of each level and thus the runtime in each mode where the Ceco has fixed brightness levels. Cygolite doesn't say that much on the description highlighting that feature so I talked to their customer service to confirm. It also looks like the Cygolite has the vertical diffuser lens so probably throws a wider beam than the Ceco but I can't find any reviews yet to confirm.


About the Ceco 2000 vs Cygolite Ranger 2000; I looked at the Cygolite website and yes apparently the Ranger has two buttons on the lamp where the Ceco 2000 only one. So yes you will be able to custom adjust the brightness of the modes, a very nice option. The Ranger model also claims an optic that provides a wide(er) beam. I looked at every photo I could find of the front of the lamp and you just can't tell if this is true or not. That said I believe both lamps will have a fairly wide beam. There is also a less expensive version of the Ranger ( Ranger 1800 ) which looks to have all the same features of the Ranger 2000. 

As I see it being able to adjust the brightness levels is not a big deal. While nice to have such a feature the Ceco 2000 has 5 steady modes that I'm sure that would be good enough to find an output to suit the need of the moment. The down side to all of these models is that all the flash modes are in the main menu. While I wouldn't consider this a deal killer I generally don't like a lot of flash modes in a main menu "UNLESS"....there is a remote that would allow the user to rapid fire through the flash modes ( such as lamps like the Ravemen CR series lamps ) . Now if I were going to buy one of these three lamps *I would choose the Cygolite Ranger 1800 *simply because I think the 2000 model is over priced.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Ranger model also claims an optic that provides a wide(er) beam. I looked at every photo I could find of the front of the lamp and you just can't tell if this is true or not.
> 
> There is also a less expensive version of the Ranger ( Ranger 1800 ) which looks to have all the same features of the Ranger 2000.


If you scroll over the optic section of the first image it will expand it further to the right and at the bottom left of the optic image you can see a little of the optic pattern.

I also saw they have a 1500 version for $129 with the same features and noticed they've lowered the single emitter Ranger 1400 price down quite a bit ($92.77). I have a 1400 and it's still pretty bright with a wide beam. My 1400 also has a double click to boost from any mode and single click back to that mode giving you a high/low option and a way to avoid the flashing modes (likely the new 2 emitter models will do this too). Sadly though, like all previous Cygolite's the bar mount won't fit 35mm bars (?).
Mole


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

MRMOLE said:


> Sadly though, like all previous Cygolite's the bar mount won't fit 35mm bars (?).
> Mole


That is a real bummer - I did not notice this! 

Would you have to use some kind of adapter like this? Amazon.com


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

Cat-man-do said:


> Now if I were going to buy one of these three lamps *I would choose the Cygolite Ranger 1800 *simply because I think the 2000 model is over priced.


I was looking at the 1500 and 1800 for the same reason but they seem to have stunted runtimes as well. I'm not sure if they de-rated them or used smaller batteries or what. 

Meanwhile the Ceco F2000 is only $80 on Amazon but I would rather have the wider beam of the Cygolite. 


Ranger 2000









Ranger 1800


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> (edited )
> If you scroll over the optic section of the first image ( Cygolite Ranger ) it will expand it further to the right and at the bottom left of the optic image you can see a little of the optic pattern.
> 
> I also saw they have a 1500 version for $129 with the same features and noticed they've lowered the single emitter Ranger 1400 price down quite a bit ($92.77). I have a 1400 and it's still pretty bright with a wide beam.* My 1400 also has a double click to boost from any mode and single click back to that mode giving you a high/low option and a way to avoid the flashing modes (likely the new 2 emitter models will do this too).* Sadly though, like all previous Cygolite's the bar mount won't fit 35mm bars (?).
> Mole


Well, if the other Ranger models do this as well ( highlighted above ) than that puts the icing on the cake. If I were in the market for a two emitter self contained lamp for road or Mt. trails I'd buy one of these before buying the two emitter Ceco. Yes, I did reexamine the optic photo on the Ranger 1800 and like you said you can see some trace of the veined optic in the photo. Too bad they don't let you know just what brand and capacity the batteries are but my gut tells me they are likely a better brand / capacity than the Ceco's.

Now with all this said, this doesn't mean the Ceco's aren't decent lamps. For someone on a budget one of the Ceco's would make for a decent bike light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Shredder32 said:


> I was looking at the 1500 and 1800 for the same reason but they seem to have stunted runtimes as well. I'm not sure if they de-rated them or used smaller batteries or what.
> 
> Meanwhile the Ceco F2000 is only $80 on Amazon but I would rather have the wider beam of the Cygolite.
> 
> ...


I don't understand the variance of run times listed on the Ranger models. On the 1800 how can high be listed as between 1hr30min - 4 hrs. That's a two and a half hr. difference. Maybe they are trying to account for use in really cold weather. (?) Plus if the 1800 is using less power the runtimes should be longer than the 2000 version if they are using the same batteries. Anyway, this is why I don' t like that they don't list the battery capacity of their lamps. 

Lastly, nice that they make a GoPro adapter for the Cygolite / Ceco lamps. Of course if you don't already own a Gopro handlebar mount those can cost a bit unless you buy a cheap Chinese version. Personally I tried a few of the metal Chinese GoPro clones and didn't have great success with those. Luckily I own a name brand Gopro handlebar mount and a GP handlebar mount from one of my other lamps.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Shredder32 said:


> That is a real bummer - I did not notice this!
> 
> Would you have to use some kind of adapter like this? Amazon.com


That's your only option. It should work but I've never tried using my Cygolite adapter with any light that heavy so still an outside chance it may not hold over rough ground. Currently I don't plan on buying one of these so if you do I'm volunteering you as our "test Ginnie Pig" and would appreciate you letting us know how both the light and mount work. Thanks!




Shredder32 said:


> I was looking at the 1500 and 1800 for the same reason but they seem to have stunted runtimes as well. I'm not sure if they de-rated them or used smaller batteries or what.
> 
> Meanwhile the Ceco F2000 is only $80 on Amazon but I would rather have the wider beam of the Cygolite.


Lowering battery capacity for lower output similar lights is pretty common so my guess is that's what's going on here. Contacting Cygolite should get you an answer. Agree that spending the extra for the wider beamed Cygolite would be worthwhile.
Mole


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## Shredder32 (3 mo ago)

When I asked cygolite about thier run time varying they said it's because you can override the default (lowest runtime) brightness to make it dimmer and thus trade it for longer runtimes. So they are giving you min and max runtimes for each brightness but you trade lumens. Does that make sense? So you could set high to say 1400 lumens and get more than the 1.5 hour runtime. It sounds like they give you a pretty good adjustment range for each setting. I have no idea if there is memory for those adjustments. I might volunteer as tribute if the price drops a bit...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I went to the Cygolite website to see if I could gleen any more information but only found that the 2000 weighs slightly more than the 1500/1800 so 99% sure it has more battery capacity. No manual available to explain programming method but looking at the runtime range of each mode it's not setup to adjust in 10% increments like most other programmable output UI programs I've dealt with (ramping maybe?). Fingers crossed it at least has setting memory. If I run across any BF deals I'll be sure to post them here.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I went to the Cygolite website to see if I could gleen any more information but only found that the 2000 weighs slightly more than the 1500/1800 so 99% sure it has more battery capacity. No manual available to explain programming method but looking at the runtime range of each mode it's not setup to adjust in 10% increments like most other programmable output UI programs I've dealt with (ramping maybe?). *Fingers crossed it at least has setting memory. *If I run across any BF deals I'll be sure to post them here.
> Mole


I agree. If the lamp doesn't save the setting than it would seem to me to be a waste of time. On the Ravemen CR900 I own it has one mode where you can dial in a setting but in all the years I used the lamp I never messed with the custom setting more than a couple times because if you changed modes it would lose the setting and go back to default.



Shredder32 said:


> When I asked cygolite about thier run time varying they said it's because you can override the default (lowest runtime) brightness to make it dimmer and thus trade it for longer runtimes. *So they are giving you min and max runtimes for each brightness but you trade lumens.* Does that make sense? So you could set high to say 1400 lumens and get more than the 1.5 hour runtime. It sounds like they give you a pretty good adjustment range for each setting. I have no idea if there is memory for those adjustments. I might volunteer as tribute if the price drops a bit...


Goodness, that almost makes no sense. They should just tell you right off what the default run-time is for each mode setting. Obviously the output will drop at some point when the battery gets low but the way they list it has you guessing how much time it will have at a given setting if left to default settings. Too bad they didn't include a digital run-time read out. IMO this is almost a feature you have to have if you're using a self-contained lamp with a sealed battery compartment. Well at least they did include a "low battery warning flash" feature. That at least gives the user the option to change to a lower mode to increase run-time. Still, if I was using one of these and planned on riding more than two hours I'd have to have a torch or another lamp as back up. 

*Off topic CAt comment*: I had a big scare a few days ago. I was riding my e-Mt. bike at night near where I live and just before finishing the ride my free-wheel locked up! Thankfully this didn't happen while on an extended night trail ride because it was cold as all get-out that night. I had no idea what the problem was but the rear wheel ended up out of alignment and the rear wheel wouldn't roll. Talk about a WTF / "Boy am I screwed moment"! Thankfully the LBS I now deal with was able to disassemble the motor hub and had it fixed within hrs. The mechanic told me that there were spacers inside the hub that were apparently in the wrong spot which he was able to rearrange and fix. _sigh_...Thankfully didn't need a new wheel. Sometimes you just have to hate Chinese workmanship. That bike only has 240 miles on it.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

Integrating sphere is just completed, now i can get a rough estimate of the lumens of my flashlights.
The system will have a % error, so take the lumen value and assume a 10-15% error.
It is an amateur system with amateur tools. No claim to be accurate, but by using the same measurement system over and over again, I can get a feel for how my flashlights perform.










I updated the table with the values posted in the other topic.









I calculated the throw at 4m, but to make a correct measurement you should measure at 10m, so I will make new measurements in the future.
I have to be honest, when I go out at night and stop to take measurements, on the trail, in the dark, it's like a horror movie, you hear noises, the voice of animals, then in the distance you see eyes that light up and you wonder if it's a fawn or a more dangerous animal, but I will definitely update the values over time, slowly, adding the other flashlights I use on my bike.
If you have any questions just ask.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

A. Argo, your homebuilt sphere looks a lot like mine so I'm way interested in your construction, calibration process and error sources (even if it's way too geeky for the rest of our MTB friends). The problem with all of these is that you need some original light source whose lumen value you trust to calibrate everything.

My latest Black Friday impulse buy is an attempt to get around that with a calibrated sphere photometer from Labsphere. That should be pretty accurate, but only works for sources smaller than 1/2" (i.e. smaller than all my lights). So I'm now buying a bunch of raw LEDs to test with both the photometer and my larger home built sphere for calibration. This is getting to be as much of a time sink as MTBing.


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

My sphere is 50cm diameter.
Two layer of primer for polystyrene: primer is a little bit beige as you can see:









Than 3 layer of barium sulphate paint.
I did some baffles with different sizes, like these (the second one) and I chose the smallest one that could close the optical output window.



















For the calibration I had a source that had been measured with a professional instrument in an optical laboratory so it was quite simple.
However I know that my luxmeter has a certain sensitivity and a certain margin of error and that the error is amplified in a system that is not well designed like mine, but I repeat, I am not interested in absolute precision, but being able to make a comparison with my flashlight.
I think I'm getting enough - the measurements on some flashlights are very similar to what other people get so I think I'm on the right way and I'm happy.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Very nice. Mine's only 30 cm so I can have "sphere-envy" now.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> My 2 Astrolux lights (BL02/BL03) are the same. If I remember they claimed 6500K for the spot and 4000K for the floods. Normally I don't care for mixing tints but seems to work OK.
> Mole


Dang it MRM, I just succumbed to the Chinese Black Friday sale going on at Banggood. Just bought an Astrolux BL03 with remote. At ~ $36 plus shipping I just couldn't resist and I don't even need another bike light. Anyway it has the digital battery display, a wired remote control, a 6000mAh battery and a nice hefty mounting bracket. Looks like I'll get to see myself if these are worth throwing away ~$40. Won't get it till Dec. Oh well, this is what happens when I start talking about bike lights again.

Dang it again, so cold outside right now ( at night ) that I can't take my Mt. bike out since getting it back from the shop. Just don't feel like freezing my as* off.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Dang it MRM, I just succumbed to the Chinese Black Friday sale going on at Banggood. Just bought an Astrolux BL03 with remote. At ~ $36 plus shipping I just couldn't resist and I don't even need another bike light. Anyway it has the digital battery display, a wired remote control, a 6000mAh battery and a nice hefty mounting bracket. Looks like I'll get to see myself if these are worth throwing away ~$40. Won't get it till Dec. Oh well, this is what happens when I start talking about bike lights again.
> 
> Dang it again, so cold outside right now ( at night ) that I can't take my Mt. bike out since getting it back from the shop. Just don't feel like freezing my as* off.


Congrats in advance! Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. Looking forward to the review.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ( edited )...Dang it again, so cold outside right now ( at night ) that I can't take my Mt. bike out since getting it back from the shop. Just don't feel like freezing my as* off.


Since I'm quoting myself I figured I'd just finish the thought. Tonight I just couldn't take not being able to ride because of the cold so I bundled up to take a quick ride out my front door ( just to test my bike since getting it back from the shop ). I was also testing a cheap Balaclava I bought off of Amazon. Almost everything went fine except that Balaclava. I got about a 1/4 mile from my home when it felt like someone was holding ice cubes to my temples. ( SOB!)...I just turned around and couldn't wait to get to the front door.  Well it was cold. Right around 28°F. I haven't ridden in temps that cold since I was in my 40's. Looks like I have to try some other strategy for the head if I'm going to ride in temps. that cold.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Here's my test results for the three highest modes on my Ravemen LR1600. Most used third level a little over 4.5 hrs @ 600-700 lumens.
> Mole
> View attachment 2003683


Unfortunately for various reasons I haven't been out much at night lately and since this is a pretty good light (IMO of course) thought I'd at least add a link to the road.cc review. US availability is still non-existent but there are a few over-seas sites that carrie it and deliver to the US. Great 21700 single emitter bar flood!
Mole

Ravemen LR1600 USB Rechargeable Curved Lens Front Light


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Unfortunately for various reasons I haven't been out much at night lately and since this is a pretty good light (IMO of course) thought I'd at least add a link to the road.cc review. US availability is still non-existent but there are a few over-seas sites that carrie it and deliver to the US. Great 21700 single emitter bar flood!
> Mole
> 
> Ravemen LR1600 USB Rechargeable Curved Lens Front Light


The LR1600 looks like a nice light. Too bad it doesn't include a digital run time read out. If it did I might have found myself upgrading from the CR900 I have. MRM, any chance you have a photo of what the beam pattern looks like when in the 800 lumen mode?. Road.cc didn't happen to have a beam photo. Too bad it's not sold in the U.S. yet and too bad they didn't use a 5000mAh battery for even more run time.

Off topic comment; I just found out the other day that the "Lights and Night Riding" forum is no longer listed in the main forum menu. That happened because I had switched to look at stuff in the e-bike forums and when wanted to go back to LANRiding, I couldn't find it listed in the forums! 😾 So, I now see it listed under, "Bike Related Accessories" which means it is now a "Sub-forum". I guess mtbr must not think night riding is that much of a thing anymore.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The LR1600 looks like a nice light. Too bad it doesn't include a digital run time read out. If it did I might have found myself upgrading from the CR900 I have. MRM, any chance you have a photo of what the beam pattern looks like when in the 800 lumen mode?. Road.cc didn't happen to have a beam photo. Too bad it's not sold in the U.S. yet and too bad they didn't use a 5000mAh battery for even more run time.


road.cc light testing data

road.cc also tested and has complete beam shots of the LR1200 (same optic/beam pattern, max output main difference) in the above linked light comparison engine. Like Gemini, Ravemen chooses to use 4000mAh 21700 batteries which makes no sense to me either.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Since I'm quoting myself I figured I'd just finish the thought. Tonight I just couldn't take not being able to ride because of the cold so I bundled up to take a quick ride out my front door ( just to test my bike since getting it back from the shop ). I was also testing a cheap Balaclava I bought off of Amazon. Almost everything went fine except that Balaclava. I got about a 1/4 mile from my home when it felt like someone was holding ice cubes to my temples. ( SOB!)...I just turned around and couldn't wait to get to the front door.  Well it was cold. Right around 28°F. I haven't ridden in temps that cold since I was in my 40's. Looks like I have to try some other strategy for the head if I'm going to ride in temps. that cold.


*Once again quoting myself and continuing off topic:* Last ride I took was somewhat cold. 44°F at the start and 37°F by the time I got back. Only thing that was too cold was my hands ( full finger gloves and liners were not enough ) Looks like I'll have to wear the Thinsulate lined winter gloves the next time out if below 45°F. 

Got a big surprise when I was taking the night ride around my local neighborhood; Riding a local MUP I noticed another rider ahead of me that had come off an adjacent MUP that was blending in with mine. What surprised me was that this rider was using full wheel lights that obviously were larger / brighter than the ones I have on my road set-up. Dang it! I knew someone local would eventually out-do my road setup. I tried to catch up with him but I was on my e-mt. bike and just didn't feel like pushing it because it was so cold. 

Ordered a bunch of winter gear tonight off of Amazon. Hopefully a better / warmer balacalva. I also finally bought a new helmet. Hadn't had a new helmet in over 20 years. Bought one with a removeable front goggle. Having a front goggle should help keep my head warm if I ride in the winter. Looks like it has a center vent on the top so I'm hoping I can mount a torch to it. Won't know till I get it Friday. 

I'm Hoping to get the Astrolux BL03 I ordered some weeks ago sometime this week. I have off from work the rest of the week so it would be nice to get the BL03 and have time to play with it. Hopefully if things go right all the stuff will arrive this week....which....would mean Christmas would be coming early for the "CAtman". 🎅

Oh, almost forgot; I ordered that Sofirn headlamp I mentioned in the other thread. Should have it tomorrow. 🎅🎅


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I also finally bought a new helmet. Hadn't had a new helmet in over 20 years.




🆒🆒🆒🆒🆒🆒🆒🆒🆒 Definitely 🕒 !
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Congrats in advance! Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. Looking forward to the review.
> Mole


Well...the Astrolux BL03 I ordered from AliExpress has yet to arrive. Probably going to come Monday when I go back to work.......on the upside; The new helmet looks like it's going to work out. Does have a center vent that allows me to mount a torch. New balacalva looks like a winner too. Should be super warm.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Update; Quickie Review of the Astrolux BL03 and Sofirn D25L:*

Got lucky and discovered that the BL03 came in the mail today. Since my Mt. bike is in the shop and will be for some time I took the road setup I have out for a quick spin around the neighborhood so I could test the BL03. Really only brought the D25L along just to see how the two lights would work in combo. 

Okay, where to start....( _disclaimer; All of the lights I'm reviewing have been bought with my own money _) The BL03 came in a nice little box with normal attachments, adjustable bar clamp ( which works very well ) and the wired remote. Bonus, they threw in a Gopro mount that works with the quick release on the mount. 

*Operation:* The lamp has two main buttons on the main body of the lamp. One for the center emitter high beam and the other for the two outer emitters which function more or less as your low beam. When I bought this lamp I was really only interested in the two outer LED's which are more warm in tint. To my delight the two outer emitters have a very nice warm tint that is almost exactly like my Fireflies E07. That said that's as far as the comparison with the E07 can go. Still, in the maximum intensity mode ( the two outer emitters only ) this lamp has a very wide beam pattern ( wider that my E07 ) which was a joy to use ( _No apparent artifacts with the two emitter beam pattern_). Useable throw is limited while in this mode but not to the extent that you can't ride using just the two outer emitters. Of course if the two emitters aren't enough you can double click the lower button and the center ( high beam ) will give you all the distance throw you could need ( assuming bar mounting ). 

The user interface ( UI ) is sort of a mixed bag. There are three levels of steady light for each button, plus two flash modes and "OFF", all in the same circular menu. The center LED throws a more narrow beam pattern and as I mentioned before has a slight bluish tint. That said, "It's not as blue" as other cheap lights I've reviewed so I wouldn't consider it a deal killer. Now the million dollar question: "Can this be used for Mt. biking at night"?... If you're a fit sport rider using only one light perhaps not but if you're a recreational rider or using it in combo with a bright helmet light I think it would be a fine light for someone on a budget. 

I almost forgot to mention this lamp has a digital battery / run time display. This is a nice feature to have ( not to mention the wired remote ) for a lamp at this price range. I am a little confused though. I'm going to have to assume that the read-out is telling you the % of the battery life you have remaining. The instructions on the box claim the lamp will run for 3 hrs. ...both in the two emitter max mode OR the single emitter max mode. Both used in combo in max setting the run time is 1.5 hrs. I think if you keep the high beam off and only use for really fast or technical sections you can expect an average run time of 2.5 hrs. The two cell battery takes 6hrs to charge when depleted. 

While on my quick ride ( about 30 minutes ) I stopped at a dark area and brought out the Sofirn D25L to do a combo comparison. With the BL03 on max ( two outer emitters only in max setting ) I held the D25L head high as though using it as a helmet lamp ( max. output ). To my surprise, both lamps in combo complimented each other very well. Judging the resultant beam pattern and combined throw I think this could work as a poor man's Mt. bike light set. You would though be required to run both lamps on the max settings in order to see well ( not including the center led on the BL03 ). Carry a couple extra batteries for the D25L and you should be good for three hours.

*note to MRM*; the new balacalva worked great. So did the new helmet. 39°F and no cold issues


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my last post: Astrolux BL03*

I picked up some yellow translucent tape from Amazon to try to see what I could do about knocking down some of the blue tint from the middle LED spot. Had to use two pieces which really did mellow out the blueness overall but still the the middle of the spot still has a small tinge of blue. I think I forgot that the farthest throw actual comes from the outer part of the reflector. When I get a chance I'm going to put some smaller pieces on the outer edge of the middle reflector and see what that does. If that makes no real improvement than I go with just the two pieces over the lens. When I tried it out in my house it really did make the high beam emitter produce a more uniform warm beam pattern. I just wish they had used the same emitters on the center LED as they did with the two outer ones. I haven't tried out on a ride yet but I'm betting I'm going to like it much better. The only thing that takes away from the lamp from my POV is the UI. When in the two outer leds if you double click the back button it will add the center ( high beam ) to the mix. Sadly though there is no quick way to return to just the outer emitters. Nope, the only way to get back to just the outer leds is to cycle all the way through the modes. That includes all the flash modes and the off mode. Now if I'm wrong about that someone please tell me. Even though I like the light the user interface is just too wonkie if you want to change modes. Once you turn the high beam on it's hell to get back to the low beam setting. ++. Just now put tape around the edges...it worked. I should note though that when on all three emitters are on high the tint is not quite as warm as with just the two outer. Then again the light is brighter on high so pretty much to be expected but it's still an improvement. I won't know how much the tape knocks the throw down till I actual use it on a ride. Sadly haven't been feeling well lately so it might be a while till that happens.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*ASTROLUX BL03 Video*

Found this nice Youtube video of the BL03's different modes.
Mole


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