# Leg cramp on DH's



## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

when i rode yesterday i had a couple downhills about .5 miles long each. they were not all that steep or overly technical but enough of both to keep my speed down. anyway, i had a bad cramp in my right calf and quad about halfway down both. i made a conscious effort to stay loose, and i was loose, so whatsup?(not the 1st time i have experienced this)

when i am in the ready position, pedals level, my left foot is forward, and right in the back. i have tried riding opposite that but it does not feel 'right' to me. i have ridden left foot forward since i was about 5 years old.

what am i doing wrong? anyone else experience this? 

Rita


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## markcycling (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re;Cramps*

I have been plagued by cramps on several occasions. The most common cause is dehydration followed by defiencies of minerals or electrolytes- Calciom-potassium-magnesium. Hope this helps


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't normally cramp, but sometimes my legs feel very fatigued from descending. 

Even though it seems like going DH should be easy on your body, you are actually asking your legs to do alot of work to keep you stable. They are just working hard.

Strength training would likely help. Something like leg presses and toe raises or squats or lunges. 

Hydration and balanced electrolites as mentioned above for during your rides is a good idea along with a good recovery drink after your ride.


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Keep trying*

Well, for the not too technical descents, I would suggest you keep trying to alternate your feet. Eventually it won't feel so weird to have your "wrong" foot forward. I always try to switch it up and to vary my position a little bit here, a little bit there. For example, for a calf cramp, maybe try pushing your heel down, toe up a little bit to see if that helps. Of course, by the time the cramp hits, it may be too late.

As others have mentioned, cramping is often nutrition related, electrolytes, all that good stuff. (Can you tell how knowlegeable I am about sports nutrition?  ) Had you been riding for a long time before the cramps hit, and had you been drinking a sports drink?

Spike


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

AZtortoise said:


> when i rode yesterday i had a couple downhills about .5 miles long each. they were not all that steep or overly technical but enough of both to keep my speed down. anyway, i had a bad cramp in my right calf and quad about halfway down both. i made a conscious effort to stay loose, and i was loose, so whatsup?(not the 1st time i have experienced this)
> 
> when i am in the ready position, pedals level, my left foot is forward, and right in the back. i have tried riding opposite that but it does not feel 'right' to me. i have ridden left foot forward since i was about 5 years old.
> 
> ...


Have you ever had the experience of riding down something really loose and steep that you're trying to maintain a slow speed on -- and out of pure necessity had to switch which foot you have forward (because the rear end of your bike is sliding out in a particular direction that can only be counteracted by switching which foot is forward). Am I the only one this has ever happened to? A very good argument to practice using your goofy foot every once in a while so it doesn't feel as weird.

Sometimes when I ride my hardtail, my legs scream on a moderate length dowhhills, especially if I'm not warmed up. It never gets to the point of cramping, but my legs really feel like they're getting worked. I usually attribute it to being fatigued.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

Spike said:


> Well, for the not too technical descents, I would suggest you keep trying to alternate your feet. Eventually it won't feel so weird to have your "wrong" foot forward. I always try to switch it up and to vary my position a little bit here, a little bit there. For example, for a calf cramp, maybe try pushing your heel down, toe up a little bit to see if that helps. Of course, by the time the cramp hits, it may be too late.
> 
> As others have mentioned, cramping is often nutrition related, electrolytes, all that good stuff. (Can you tell how knowlegeable I am about sports nutrition?  ) Had you been riding for a long time before the cramps hit, and had you been drinking a sports drink?
> 
> Spike


i will try switching my feet positions, as suggested, as well as flexing my feet.

i was well hydrated and downed half a bottle of gatorade before the 1st descent, which was halfway through the ride, and had downed the 2nd half gatorade before the 2nd descent, which was near the end of the ride(12 miles or so total distance).

someone suggested i may be low on calcium or magnesium, but i take a calcium/magnesium supplement, so i doubt that is the cause.

am i missing anything?

thanks for all the good suggestions.

Rita


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

AZtortoise said:


> i will try switching my feet positions, as suggested, as well as flexing my feet.
> 
> i was well hydrated and downed half a bottle of gatorade before the 1st descent, which was halfway through the ride, and had downed the 2nd half gatorade before the 2nd descent, which was near the end of the ride(12 miles or so total distance).
> 
> ...


I think its' just quad strength.. it's very isometric, like those dang wall sits we used to do.
formica


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> Have you ever had the experience of riding down something really loose and steep that you're trying to maintain a slow speed on -- and out of pure necessity had to switch which foot you have forward (because the rear end of your bike is sliding out in a particular direction that can only be counteracted by switching which foot is forward). Am I the only one this has ever happened to? A very good argument to practice using your goofy foot every once in a while so it doesn't feel as weird.
> 
> Sometimes when I ride my hardtail, my legs scream on a moderate length dowhhills, especially if I'm not warmed up. It never gets to the point of cramping, but my legs really feel like they're getting worked. I usually attribute it to being fatigued.


NO you are not alone. Here the switch is often demanded because of threading through stuff and having to 1/2 pedal stroke to keep from hitting the pedals on stuff.

I had a knee surgery several years ago that had me switching the forward foot. I'm back to mostly the original front foot but can change easily at least for shorter times.


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## Kristine (Apr 30, 2004)

I don't get cramps, but I will get what I guess are really quick involuntary muscles spasms in my lower legs during a long downhill - it's kind of freaky, I look down and my feet are just shaking on the pedals.

It doesn't always happen, and often it is near the beginning of a ride. Nutrition/hydration/just plain old muscle strength? Saturday it happened during a short ride; Sunday over 3+ hour ride, no problems.

Maybe I'm just an old chick!  

Kristine


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## HappyHamster (Jun 3, 2004)

*another idea maybe (?)*

I have a possible idea to help, but since I haven't personally experienced muscle cramps in that scenario, it's a sort of hypothesis. As formica said, in that position it's an isomeric muscle contraction, which physiologically places a different sort of demand on the muscle than pedaling. Your muscles will adapt to specific overloads in a way to be able to handle the demands placed on them. From riding, you're already training those muscles sufficiently for the motions of pedaling, but not necessarily for your position causing cramping. So, I'd suggest doing a thorough warm up (about 10 or so min. riding on a flat or in a trainer), stretch your quads, hams, and calves, then doing sets of those dreaded isometric wall squats formica mentioned. In between the sets, stretch again. A set would be one squat, held to fatigue while maintaining good form, and try to gradually increase the length of time you can hold it (reasonably) to approximate the time you think you need to do so on downhills on the bike. If you do this maybe twice a week consistently for a while, it may help. As I said, I've never tried this, just going on the principle of specificity training.

Who knows - there are about 20 theories for cramping, but it seems as though you were well hydrated and you take calcium/magnesium supplements, so that knocks out one or two of them.....

hope this helps!


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

my favorite exercise for increasing quads and overall leg strength is wallking lunge steps. I use them to prep for ski season, or at least I used to before I rode so much. Start with only 25 steps or so, this can really kill you. Don't let your knee get forward of your ankle. This exercise is really good for your balance and proprioception, both skills you use in MTB.

formica


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Lunges*

Oooh, lunges are a very good exercise that I just *hate*! They never feel natural to me. Give me squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, even those dreaded isometric wall sits before lunges. But, I do them occasionally because I know they're good for me.

AZT, good luck solving this problem. I don't know what else to suggest.

Spike



formica said:


> my favorite exercise for increasing quads and overall leg strength is wallking lunge steps. I use them to prep for ski season, or at least I used to before I rode so much. Start with only 25 steps or so, this can really kill you. Don't let your knee get forward of your ankle. This exercise is really good for your balance and proprioception, both skills you use in MTB.
> 
> formica


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

*Do you ever hold your breath while riding?*

I was thinking about your post this weekend while riding and noticing that on steep technical stuff I sometimes hold my breath out of nervousness. I would imagine that a decrease in the oxygen flow would also precipate cramping. I made a conscious effort to KEEP BREATHING through the tough spots and I found that I had less leg fatigue than before.

Something else to think of. Can't hurt anyway. ;-)
Mary Ann


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## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

Formica's got the ticket here, IMHO. What you're experiencing insn't so much a cramp in the XC-ish sense, but rather muscle fatigue in the strength sense. When I started DH'ing my legs were roasted after a single run. I thought that after years of XC I'd be a leg-up (pun intended) on most DH-types but, rather, I was at a disadvantage. Different type of muscle stress. Leg work in the gym helped, but what did the most for me was riding a single speed.  Having to constantly be out of the saddle - both ascending and descending - built up my legs better than any gym workout or years of mostly-seated XC riding ever did. Also, 15+ minutes DH runs on the Garbonzo trails at Whistler this summer helped as well....

People often have the misconception that DH'ing is just a bunch of lazy fat-arses with their butts planted on the seat riding down a steep hill. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Skills aside, to be a good downhill rider you need to be able to be dynamic and mobile over the bike, which means a LOT of isometric contraction of the legs as you hover over the saddle.


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## Gnarlene (Jan 13, 2004)

*Some thoughts...*

Downhilling is hard on your body.
I know that riding my bike down a hill puts a huge amount of strain on my ankle tendons. I had a surgery last year to repair a tendon in my right ankle. Long story, lots of pain, lots of time off the bike, kind of a real cruddy time for me...oh, and some rather interesting adventures on crutches.

Now, I am back on my feet, but after a long downhill section, I will be limping for a day or two. And yet I can do off-trail scrambles and easy rock climbs...and I'm planning on hiking 18 miles to the river and back in the Grand Canyon in a couple of weeks. All activities you'd think would be harder on your ankles than "coasting" downhill.

It's kind of odd that downhilling is so stressful, since all you are doing is "just standing there". But just standing there, balancing on two tiny platforms underneath your toes, with all of your weight on your quads (and most of that on your back quad), and using your calves to keep you balanced over those pedals, and then trying to "English" your body through any sorts of hazards...dang, my legs hurt just thinking about it!

I can easily see how not being warmed up enough, or having an "off day", or even having a tich of a bug could turn that major muscle effort of downhilling into cramps quite easily.

I've found that stretching works wonders for my cramping issues -- biking or otherwise. I've sort of been forced into this stretching regimine due to the physical therapy from the surgery I spoke of at the top. Anyway, if I stretch, I don't cramp. If I miss several days (like 3) of stretching, my calves will cramp -- every time. It was pretty easy for me to figure out the connection, and now the only time I "slip off the wagon" is when I'm on business travel...


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

i think y'all are right about using the muscles differently. also, that day i started from a different trailhead which had me starting at the bottom of that half mile long hill. right away i knew it was a mistake, or i should have done a proper warmup.

so, a lesson learned, and lots of good info from y'all. thanks!  

Rita


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## Kat (Oct 11, 2004)

*better than gatorade*



AZtortoise said:


> when i rode yesterday i had a couple downhills about .5 miles long each. they were not all that steep or overly technical but enough of both to keep my speed down. anyway, i had a bad cramp in my right calf and quad about halfway down both. i made a conscious effort to stay loose, and i was loose, so whatsup?(not the 1st time i have experienced this)
> 
> when i am in the ready position, pedals level, my left foot is forward, and right in the back. i have tried riding opposite that but it does not feel 'right' to me. i have ridden left foot forward since i was about 5 years old.
> 
> ...


Just in case you are interested GNC is now selling endurance products. One of them is Electroade and I have used it a couple of times. It outdoes gatorade in keeping cramps to zero. When I ran out of Electroade and had to go back to gatorade and road for 3 hours I got the leg cramps. But do cut the Electroade in half with water as it is really syrupy sweet. The grape flavor is good.


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