# Sticky  29+ tire choices



## green mt. boy (Jan 15, 2004)

I see two 29+ tire choices (Knard and Dirt Wizard) on the Surly site. Are these the only choices at this time?


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Dirt Wizard in 29+ flavor is not available yet, so the Knard is it for now, I suppose you have two choices, 27 or 120 tpi.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Vee Rubber has a 29+ tire in their marketing info, but I haven't see one on anyone's bike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> Dirt Wizard in 29+ flavor is not available yet, so the Knard is it for now, I suppose you have two choices, 27 or 120 tpi.


The ETA that folks in the Surly sub-forum are talking about for the 29+ DW is August. I want to believe that's wrong, but it may be bang on. For the moment there's nothing to do, but rock your Knards and wait.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

real nice clark! i hope they don't release the DW at the end of a riding season. that's just silly marketing


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I agree. Announcing a product in Sept 2013 and delivering in Sept 2014 is a bit [actually a lot] lame.

Having said that the wet parts of the year are when many riders want to switch out their Knards for something more aggressive so a fall release isn't totally goofy from that perspective.

I'm not suggesting anyone actually planned things that way.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

true that, but you could also have 'em for the earlier wet season of lets say spring.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

One is slow and one is fast.



TwoNin9r said:


> Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

seat_boy said:


> One is slow and one is fast.


thanks! no seriously...


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

29+ is made to go on a 29er (622mm bead set diameter, or BSD) rim, and is about 3" wide.

Fat tires are typically made to go on a 26" (559mm BSD) rim and are in the range of 3.8" ~ 5" wide. Because of the wider tire, the outer diameter is close to that of a 29er.

They're also slow 



TwoNin9r said:


> thanks! no seriously...


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

haha awesome. rep for you.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

TwoNin9r said:


> Dumb question. what's the difference between fat tires and 29+


With 4" or 5" tires you can ride some soft terrain like deep snow and sand that would stop a normal MTB. 29+ tires really don't go anywhere a normal 29er couldn't go, but they provide good traction and a bit better ride through say gravel or sandy section on a normal MTB trail. 29+ also gives you great roll through tech sections due to how tall the tire is.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

that and they are at an od greater than 29 which slackens your head a lil bit. a fun tire, so not to be taken seriously


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

seat_boy said:


> One is slow and one is fast.


I actually agree with this statement. 29+ is the next 27.5 once people figure out they are 26" wheels with marginally taller tread. And people will get tired of 15-18 pounds wheels once the novelty wears off or if you need to climb hills.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

GSJ1973 said:


> I actually agree with this statement. 29+ is the next 27.5 once people figure out they are 26" wheels with marginally taller tread. And people will get tired of 15-18 pounds wheels once the novelty wears off or if you need to climb hills.


your post is obscure. 29+ is a 29er tire, not a 27.5 or a 26 w/ a taller tread. the tread is 4" taller than a 26. its a 29er high volume tire, thee end. i climb hills with them no problem so i think you might need to HTFU


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I think GSJ was making two points:

- there's only a small difference between 26" and 27.5", about the same as between 29 and 29+. So similar to all those punters who saw 27.5 as revolutionary, the current crop of 29er riders may see 29+ as the Next Big Thing.

- or coming at it from the other way, people will realize their fat bikes are too slow and ponderous for everyday riding, so they'll downsize, but still want some simple cush. So... 29+.

Of course, what's stopping this is the fact that there's currently only one tire and two frames that work with 29+.



fishwrinkle said:


> your post is obscure. 29+ is a 29er tire, not a 27.5 or a 26 w/ a taller tread. the tread is 4" taller than a 26. its a 29er high volume tire, thee end. i climb hills with them no problem so i think you might need to HTFU


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> - or coming at it from the other way, people will realize their fat bikes are too slow and ponderous for everyday riding, so they'll downsize, but still want some simple cush. So... 29+.
> 
> Of course, what's stopping this is the fact that there's currently only one tire and two frames that work with 29+.


I posted the info below in another thread. There are quite a few 29+ compatible frames. The tires are the issue.

There are tons of 29er tires so if you have a fatbike and want a faster dirt ride no need to really worry about 29+ just roll with "normal" 29er rubber.



vikb said:


> 29+ stuff....
> 
> *29+ Tires*
> 
> ...


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

vikb said:


> I posted the info below in another thread. There are quite a few 29+ compatible frames. The tires are the issue.


Add the REEBdonkadonk to that list of 29+ compatible frames
Tested: REEB Reebdonkadonk « Mountain Flyer Magazine


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

After a few 'attempts' of riding my Krampus in snow, I find that test ride/report a bit questionable. Even misleading, maybe outright deceiving. Comparing it to a fat bike and a normal 29 with skinny aggressive tires, my opinion is the knard is the worst of both worlds. It behaves pretty much as it does in muddy/wet conditions; worthless.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

Another to add to the list. 
Just spotted in twitter, a maxxis chronicle. 
29x3


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

no date though, huh?


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

octavius said:


> Another to add to the list.
> Just spotted in twitter, a maxxis chronicle.
> 29x3


Image courtesy of On One's Brant Richards


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thanks GT, just wish it was a better pic.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

fishwrinkle said:


> thanks GT, just wish it was a better pic.


From here:

Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

teamdicky said:


> From here:
> 
> Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


That tread looks nice. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for some user reviews when they get out into the wild. :thumbsup:


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

vikb said:


> That tread looks nice. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for some user reviews when they get out into the wild. :thumbsup:


Maxxis is saying fall.

I'm saying, "must haz now."


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

teamdicky said:


> Maxxis is saying fall.
> 
> I'm saying, "must haz now."


LOL - I have learned my lesson. I'm thinking spring 2015!


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## kdiddy (Jul 14, 2005)

SyT said:


> After a few 'attempts' of riding my Krampus in snow, I find that test ride/report a bit questionable. Even misleading, maybe outright deceiving. Comparing it to a fat bike and a normal 29 with skinny aggressive tires, my opinion is the knard is the worst of both worlds. It behaves pretty much as it does in muddy/wet conditions; worthless.


I agree. Can't wait until some better tires come out so I can steer in the snow again.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*Vee Tire Trax Fatty 29+*

Here is another from the Taipei show:


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

damn i wish i would've held out a little bit before buying the knard. might be a knard for sale here soon & still has all whiskers on it, maybe 30 miles.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fishwrinkle said:


> damn i wish i would've held out a little bit before buying the knard. might be a knard for sale here soon & still has all whiskers on it, maybe 30 miles.


Unless you can actually find these new tires for sale I'd keep the Knard. No telling when they'll be ready for sale. Just look at the 29+ Dirt Wizard.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah i know, pretty soon it will be back to the dirt and the knard will be shelved for a bit. i'm rolling a mid fat front on my xc ht on some duallys i built several weeks ago. the duallys are going on my nimble 9 w/o the knard. i guess i could still roll the knard on my p35's though. just thinking out loud sorry


that chronicle does look nice though


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## ozisnipe (May 26, 2007)

Any have updates on the maxxis and vee rubber 29er plus.
Especially the chronicle


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ozisnipe said:


> Any have updates on the maxxis and vee rubber 29er plus.
> Especially the chronicle


I haven't seen anything hit the market. I think we'd see quite a few people posting when they do. So far nothing.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm awaiting 27.5+ as I think that would be perfect compliment for my fatbike


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Here's my quick initial thoughts on the 3.0 Maxxis Chronicle.

Bad Idea Racing: The Chroni(what)cles of Gnarnia


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

mmm does it offer better cornering or braking grip? those are my issues with my knards. nothing quite like the sound of a 3" wide tire skidding into a tight corner.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

sandwich said:


> mmm does it offer better cornering or braking grip? those are my issues with my knards. nothing quite like the sound of a 3" wide tire skidding into a tight corner.


It was kinda slick out there, being all the rain and humidity. That said, it never let me down. Pushed it as hard as I was willing to and never slipped unexpectedly. Did feel a bit like driving a four wheel drive truck, but as would be expected with this much rubber pulling the front end around.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Well glad to see this tire coming one step closer to reality. :thumbsup:


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

teamdicky said:


> It was kinda slick out there, being all the rain and humidity. That said, it never let me down. Pushed it as hard as I was willing to and never slipped unexpectedly. Did feel a bit like driving a four wheel drive truck, but as would be expected with this much rubber pulling the front end around.


thanks dude!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3" tires are out. Anybody picked up a set or have some real world experience on these?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3" tires are out. Anybody picked up a set or have some real world experience on these?


Available where???


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

QBP. Your LBS can get them.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I have one coming in the mail tomorrow and a Gnarvester frame next week. I was thinking of running it on front and will replace the Knard on the front of my Les to try it out. I'll post some pics tomorrow night.

Bought it from AEBike.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

MTB Pilot said:


> I have one coming in the mail tomorrow and a Gnarvester frame next week. I was thinking of running it on front and will replace the Knard on the front of my Les to try it out. I'll post some pics tomorrow night.
> 
> Bought it from AEBike.


thats where i ordered mine from. should be here end of the week. i hope they are more durable the 120tpi knards. i love the knards but hate their delicate sidewalls.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> QBP. Your LBS can get them.


I see them listed at some stores now. AEBike seems to have the best price.

Anyone know if/when the 27.5+ version will be available? I've got a project just waiting for these!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

*Looks like Bontrager is getting into the game too.*


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The more 29+ tires the merrier. :thumbsup:


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

anyone know what version of the vee rubber tire AE is selling, can't seem to tell from their site?

here are the three models listed on the vee rubber website for the trax fatty:
$100- 29×3.0 (WB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 1025)
$110- 29×3.0 (FB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 950)
$120- 29×3.0 (FB, 120 TPI) (Weight: 920)

tread pattern looks decent (though i'd like a tire with deeper knobs for fall/winter). I liked all the regular vee rubber tires i have tried so far so i am hoping this is a winner.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

max-a-mill said:


> anyone know what version of the vee rubber tire AE is selling, can't seem to tell from their site?
> 
> here are the three models listed on the vee rubber website for the trax fatty:
> $100- 29×3.0 (WB, 72 TPI) (Weight: 1025)
> ...


It's the last one on your list. Says right in the listing, 120tpi folding bead.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

doh reading... I FAIL.

thanks!!!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Just caught wind of those last night.

Here are the specs:

FT/RR/PR : Dual
Size : 29 x 3.00
TPI : 120
Durometer : 62a/60a
Bead : Aramid
Type : TLR/Clincher
Color : Black
Weight : 850g

And here's a pic:










The bad news? ETA of 12/8/14.

That said, I've been riding the Chronicles for a ~month. I tend to reserve this bike/these tires for mellower trips where float is necessary and techy chunk isn't as prevalent. So far so good, especially the tubelessness.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

Any idea on the measured width of the bontrager tire? How do you like the maxis tire? What width rim are you using with it?



mikesee said:


> Just caught wind of those last night.
> 
> Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

mikesee said:


> Just caught wind of those last night.
> 
> Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


Thanks Mikesee! That is sweet; I love Bonti tires!

Got the Fat Trax today and will mount it later on my Derby 35mm wide rim to see if it fits in my Fox 32 that has a 29/3.0 Knard in it now.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

So, I realize these are on a 35/29mm rim, but the size of the Fatty Trax is a little disappointing compared to the Knard on the same rim. The only good thing about the smaller size is that it actually fit in the back of my Les with 2.5mm on each side! If I had a few more millimeters on each side, I'd cancel my Gnarvester; Plenty of room for the diameter of the tire. Also, the Fatty clears on the fork bridge by a few more millimeters. Both tires were measured at 30 psi on the exact same rim, right after mounted and before being ridden.

Knard 3.0 on Derby wide rim:
knob to knob









casing









Fatty Trax on Derby wide rim:
knob to knob









casing









2014 Fox 32 Float 120mm clearance:

























Comparison of the two on Derby wide rims:

















So, my tire came in 40gr lighter than advertised, but I think it's because they shorted me on tread. The casing is quite wider than the tread, and will grow even more on a 50mm wide rim. It will be a good, fast rolling rear tire on my Derby's until I build some 50mm rims; When someone makes some carbon hoops. The Trax Fatty, was a little tougher to get on the rim, but not really hard. They also seated and held air without Stan's, which the Knard would not hold air due to leaking around the bead.

Can't wait to build my Gnarvester and take full advantage of this setup!:thumbsup:


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Have you ridden the trax yet?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Dan GSR said:


> Have you ridden the trax yet?


Not really, just on the street. I did take it on a fairly steep pea sized loose gravel walking path at a really slow speed and a relatively high torque; No slippage.

Not sure I want to ride it on my Les on real trails, as the clearance is pretty minimal.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Im interested as a front tire


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

No, I mounted it on front, but the narrower tread patch doesn't seem like it will have very good bite when leaning. Maybe, when I get some 50mm rims.

I could be wrong though, as I am most of the time.:thumbsup:


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

It's bigger than the ardent 2.4 I'm also considering


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

anxious to see these mounted on a 50 or 45mm rim. They look more aggressive than I had pictured, and I question whether anybody needs knobs pointed 90* to the right or left, but it does seem to have a pronounced shoulder where the knobbage stops.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

MTB Pilot: I can't tell from your pictures, but is the Knard brand new as well, and just mounted? Just asking because new tires will grow after a couple of days of being aired up, and tires this big could easily grow 3mm to 5mm wider and taller.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Mike - do you have any idea when the Chronicle will be available for sale?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Question for those of you who have been following the 29+ tire saga closely...I'm running 120tpi Knards on my Krampus at the moment. For the most part I am happy, but there are some scenarios where I wouldn't mind some extra bite...particularly at the side of the tire. Initial reports about the 26" Dirt Wizard are that it's got an aggressive tread with great traction at the expense of being slow rolling.

My 29+ rig mostly sees touring use so I don't want a slow rolling tire.

I'm hoping that there is a compromise option that has decent side knobs without going fully knobby - which in a 3" tire is overkill for my needs.

Any thoughts on which 29+ tires might fit the bill?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

vikb said:


> Question for those of you who have been following the 29+ tire saga closely...I'm running 120tpi Knards on my Krampus at the moment. For the most part I am happy, but there are some scenarios where I wouldn't mind some extra bite...particularly at the side of the tire. Initial reports about the 26" Dirt Wizard are that it's got an aggressive tread with great traction at the expense of being slow rolling.
> 
> My 29+ rig mostly sees touring use so I don't want a slow rolling tire.
> 
> ...


FWIW, the current 26" Dirt Wizard tread isn't the same as the upcoming 29". At least that's what I've been told. Casing will be bigger too--full 3" instead of 2.75".

Trax Fatty's seem to have decent side knobs. Haven't ridden them yet.

Chronicle seems to be the best overall combo of speed and bite that I've actually been able to see/fondle/ride.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mikesee said:


> FWIW, the current 26" Dirt Wizard tread isn't the same as the upcoming 29". At least that's what I've been told. Casing will be bigger too--full 3" instead of 2.75".
> 
> Trax Fatty's seem to have decent side knobs. Haven't ridden them yet.
> 
> Chronicle seems to be the best overall combo of speed and bite that I've actually been able to see/fondle/ride.












Thanks Mike.  I'll keep an eye out for the Chronicle. I have enough life left in my Knards to get me through the rest of the year. :thumbsup:

Interesting to hear your comments on a different version of the DWs for 29+. Hopefully we'll see 'em this year.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I want to know about casing thickness? Are all these new tires as wimpy in the casing 
as the Knards? Judging by the weight I would think so. Ill just stick with the Minions I think.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

bikeny said:


> MTB Pilot: I can't tell from your pictures, but is the Knard brand new as well, and just mounted? Just asking because new tires will grow after a couple of days of being aired up, and tires this big could easily grow 3mm to 5mm wider and taller.


Yes, both tires were new and measured about 10 mins after being inflated to 30 psi. The Knard has about 12 miles on it now. I will re measure both of these tires after I build the Gnarvester and get some miles on the tires.

The casing on the Trax Fatty felt quite a bit sturdier than the Knard.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Rode my Vee Trax fatty last night and enjoyed it. It was moist/wet here and also dry in parts. A good overall test. Set up tubeless on my Duallies but burped and burped and burped until I was rolling back to the car on a half aired drag tire.

Grip was great. Tubeless setup was great. No complaints at all except with the Velocity rim and the tubeless set up. Will get tubes tonight before I head out for SSUSA.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

That's what I figured. For where I ride and how I ride Ill stick with Minions.
Thanks


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

fixgeardan said:


> I want to know about casing thickness? Are all these new tires as wimpy in the casing
> as the Knards? Judging by the weight I would think so. Ill just stick with the Minions I think.


Nothing in 29+ will ever approach your Minion casings for durability. If they did no one would buy them because they'd be 1500g+.

That said, both Trax Fatty and Chronicle casings seem much improved over the paper-thin Knards.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

appleSSeed said:


> Grip was great. Tubeless setup was great. No complaints at all except with the Velocity rim and the tubeless set up.


Hahaha! I feel your pain on the duallys.

Vikb the chronicle looks like the way to go if they ever release them. Im very intersted in that bonty. that pattern looks like a fast rolling tire.


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## TahoeBC (Apr 11, 2006)

Chronicle Review, hopefully they will be available soon

First Look! - Maxxis Chronicle 29+ Tire | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Mtbpilot those tires actually make derbys look kinda normal. I know on my 650b derbys the tires look tiny compared to the rim.


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## zink (Sep 14, 2011)

A width of 2.7"/69mm is just about right for many standard 29er forks which allows for many more potential customers. I don't really get why no one made that size before 29+ was a thing. My current Vee Rubber Mission 2.4 actually has a 2.25/57mm casing on a 21mm ID rim but my Flyxii FK-8 rigid fork has room for 70mm. Big 2.4 tires get up to about 63mm on a 30mm ID rim but that is still short of what I want.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Got my trax fattys mounted up yesterday. Took them out for a spin this morning. The narrow tread pattern gives up nothing to the knards. They roll just as good and have just as much if not more cornering grip. Mine weighed in at 900 grams dead on. On my duallies they measured 2.75 block to block and 2.95 at the casing. I set them up tubeless aired up to 50psi and let them sit overnight to stretch them out. Settled on 14psi front and 16 rear. I will drop down to 12 front and 14 rear on the next ride. The sidewall on them is much beefier then 120tpi knards.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

got a couple more rides in since mounting them up. found that they are a little more picky with pressure then the knards. ive settled on 13f 15r. i rode the second outing with 12 and 14. at 12 the front would burp ever so slightly on the dually when standing and cranking up hill. my krampus is setup ss. this eventually left me in around 8 psi by the end of my 15 mile loop. at this super low pressure the rolling resistance ramped way up and felt like i was dragging a tank. also at lower pressures they tend to have an auto steer effect. this goes away at higher pressures. at the 13/15 combo they roll fast and grip really well in the turns but ride a little harsher then the knard. overall im happy with this tire. at 30$ cheaper, 100g lighter plus the tr casing Vee has given us a really good alternative. i still plan on trying the Chronicle when it comes out. 

also i weigh 220lb all geared up. for what its worth


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

mikesee said:


> ...
> 
> That said, both Trax Fatty and Chronicle casings seem much improved over the paper-thin Knards.


WEEEELLLLLLL... Not so fast. 43 miles, 24 on tame, loose trails and 19 on rocky, chunky, loose trails. Last night on the way back in riding fairly fast speed on a solid rock section, just a few loose rocks around, I tore a hole in the the casing and knob. I'm guessing that the loss of air caused the small dent in rim and pinch hole in the bead. I was running 18 PSI which had been tested for 10 miles prior to this event on REALLY chunky terrain and was no where close to bottoming the tire to rim. I was running 14.5 on the tame trails. I weigh somewhere between 205-210 lbs depending on what I'm carrying. Pretty big hole in the casing and torn knob right next to it. Stan's filled the hole, but couldn't get the bead to stop leaking. I think the rim is fine; There is no cracking, stress fracturing or de-lamination. I'm happy it was the HD version of the Derby!

So, the Knard on the front has ridden all of the same terrain, over the same chunk, and no problems yet. Vee Rubber's Silica, SMILICA! I'm also seeing chord on the side of the casing where the seem is... I'm giving this tire a FAIL for my riding... I doesn't even measure 3 inches, even on somebody's wider rim earlier, and the casing doesn't stand up to rocky terrain. Will the 72TPI be better at withstanding cuts in the casing?

What's your opinions about warranty action? Is it just the way things go and I'm just unlucky or is a less than 50 mile 3.0 tire with Silica suppose to handle rocky terrain?

HURRY UP MAXXIS AND BONTRAGER!!! I need tires that were actually meant to be put on a mountain bike and not a beach cruiser!!!!!

ALSO: Look at the last few pics to see the cornering knobs starting to disintegrate; Vee must be in business with Schwalbe:nono::madman:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I destroyed a new tire on ride 3 or 5. Bummer, but putting a rock through the tread isn't a warranty issue any more than crashing and denting a frame is. I tried to save it, but in the end the damage was too severe to fix. So I bought a new tire. 

Same brand/model. 

No problems with the new one.

Sometimes stuff just happens.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Yeah, that's what my thinking is... Just had some preconceived notion that 29+ tires would be much more durable, since with bigger tires the idea is to be able to ride any terrain. That is my last Vee Rubber tire though. My LBS found the 72 TPI through J&B, but I'm not gonna bother since it doesn't measure 3 inches anyway. Such a waist of $80!

I ordered the 24TPI and another 120TPI in the mean time. Will the 24TPI steel bead set up tubeless on hookless bead rim?

Can't wait for the Chronicle and the Bonti Chupacabra to come out! Guitar Ted Productions: News Season Part 4: Tires V2 Trek 2015 mountain bikes - part I - BikeRadar


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> Just had some preconceived notion that 29+ tires would be much more durable, since with bigger tires the idea is to be able to ride any terrain.


Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.

One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

vikb said:


> Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.


This. Folks wouldn't want a 29 X 3.0" tire that weighed 1500 grams, but it would be a tire that would hold up to rocks and abuse much better. When the weight limits get pushed, bad things _might happen._ They definitely will happen more often than if the tires weighed more.



> One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.


I get why this upsets folks though. I mean, if you have three failures, that's $240.00 down the tubes! Hard to self fund that kind of research.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Guitar Ted said:


> I get why this upsets folks though. I mean, if you have three failures, that's $240.00 down the tubes! Hard to self fund that kind of research.


Sure, but looking at it the other way 1 incident of anything has no meaning for analysis purposes.

My GF got 2 or 3 flats in a 1-2 week period on her commuter bike and wanted to swap the fast/light/supple tires I put on that bike to maximize her low leg power for some heavy/stiff/slow "flat resistant" rubber. She rationalized 2-3 flats over that period meant the tires were just not up to the job and she'd be fixing flats non-stop.

I told her even that many flats doesn't mean anything just stay the course. 2 years later and no more flats.

Crazy thing is if she had bought the flat resistant tires she would probably also have no flats and would convince herself they were the reason and never go back to supple tires. Despite the fact that wouldn't be true.

Lighter/supple tires are really beneficial if you are weaker or you are riding longer/harder relative to your potential. It's worth the odd puncture/problem to stick with them.

At the very least be aware that one problem is not something you can draw any conclusions from about the tire and it's applicability to your riding needs.

I don't like spending money replacing tires early either. Sometimes it happens though and that's just mountain biking.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

vikb said:


> Sure, but looking at it the other way 1 incident of anything has no meaning for analysis purposes.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


SOOOO, which number or how many flats do you have to have for it to mean something? To you it's not 1-3; Maybe it's 4?

Saying a hole in a tire and knob doesn't mean anything is quite naive in my opinion. There's a 50% chance that this was just unlucky and a fluke, AND a 50% chance that the casing and rubber compound on this tire just can't hold up to rugged, rocky terrain.

I've run some tires for years that have never had flats in this terrain, let a lone a hole torn in them, and I've had others that ended in the same manner 25-60 miles in; I didn't buy those again.

Again, its a 50/50 chance that either it was a fluke or this tire simply won't hold up in my terrain, but saying that 1 hole doesn't mean anything, is denying the FACT that this tire got a hole and tore a knob in this terrain. I'm not willing to spend another $160-200 to find out if flukes come in threes.

The reality is that this tire punctured in rocky terrain in the first 50 miles. Do with the facts as you like, but don't deny reality.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> The reality is that this tire punctured in rocky terrain in the first 50 miles. Do with the facts as you like, but don't deny reality.


I'm not denying the incident. I'm saying you are extrapolating meaning into it that is based on nothing.

The following situations could all be true based on the one data point you have:

- you'll never have another problem with that brand/model of tire
- you'll have a few problems with that brand/model of tire
- you'll have lots of problems with that brand/model of tire

Your 50/50 number is totally made up fantasy. It's not based on anything real.

Now as a consumer you can do whatever you want. Never buy that tire again. Never buy that brand again. It's a free world.

Just don't tell yourself that the decision is based on a reasonable understanding of the situation.

It's not like I am making this idea up. It's basic statistics.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

vikb said:


> Since bigger tires are...well...bigger they make them thinner to keep the weight down...otherwise they'd be so burly it wouldn't be much fun to pedal.
> 
> One incident of rock damage to one specific tire doesn't mean anything. It's totally random. Now if that happens to you 3 times in a short period of time your terrain is just too gnarly for that particular tire and your riding style.





vikb said:


> I'm not denying the incident. I'm saying you are extrapolating meaning into it that is based on nothing.
> 
> The following situations could all be true based on the one data point you have:
> 
> ...


So your saying it's a random fluke the tire got a hole in it, or it got a hole in it because of the rocks? Wait, or both?

How do I, the rider of this terrain in which the tire got a hole in it, not have a reasonable understanding of the situation?

How is 50/50 fantasy; Should it be 25/25/25/25? Maybe 75/25...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> So your saying it's a random fluke the tire got a hole in it, or it got a hole in it because of the rocks? Wait, or both?
> 
> How is 50/50 fantasy; Should it be 25/25/25/25? Maybe 75/25...


That's the point. One incident on a new tire doesn't give you enough information to know what's going.

The fantasy part is assuming you know.

Anyways I'll stop there.

I hope you have better luck with whatever 29+ tires you run in the future.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Your right, in that I don't have enough information, but I have plenty of experience that let's me make an educated guess. I made an assumption on the 2.25 Racing Ralph pacestar with SS when the first one, I bought two at the same time, had a hole torn in the casing between knobs, and tried the second one with the same results. I thought the first one was a fluke, but I assumed wrong. I had the same thing happen with 2 Maxxis Ardent 27.5x2.3 tires also. 

Like I said, I'm not assuming I know for sure, but I'm making an educated guess, based on my past experience that this tires casing isn't going to hold up for my style of riding, in all of the possible terrain that I ride in AZ. I'm also not willing to spend $80+ again on the same tire to find out if I'm right or wrong... right now. Who knows, I may go down the line and have bad results with all the available tires and come full circle back to the Trax.

For now, I'll give the Knard, in both TPIs, a shot on the rear and see how it goes while I wait for the Maxxis and Bonti tires to come available.

Thanks for your opinions, pointed debate and hopes for my luck to improve! 

Til next time...


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

confirmed today
vee trax fatty fits manitou tower pro on a stans arch ex


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

subscribed


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> So, I realize these are on a 35/29mm rim, but the size of the Fatty Trax is a little disappointing compared to the Knard on the same rim. The only good thing about the smaller size is that it actually fit in the back of my Les with 2.5mm on each side! If I had a few more millimeters on each side, I'd cancel my Gnarvester; Plenty of room for the diameter of the tire. Also, the Fatty clears on the fork bridge by a few more millimeters. Both tires were measured at 30 psi on the exact same rim, right after mounted and before being ridden.


I'm surprised we don't see a few 29 x 2.7" tires come out as there are a bunch of non-29+ frames and forks that could fit these out in the world so they's have access to a wider market than a true 3" 29+ tire.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

vikb said:


> I'm surprised we don't see a few 29 x 2.7" tires come out as there are a bunch of non-29+ frames and forks that could fit these out in the world so they's have access to a wider market than a true 3" 29+ tire.


While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).

The tires and rims are just getting out there and soon I will be finding out if any of this makes sense. Gotta go build some wheels now......


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Guitar Ted said:


> While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).
> 
> The tires and rims are just getting out there and soon I will be finding out if any of this makes sense. Gotta go build some wheels now......


I'm sure it will be a good solution for some people.

The benefit with 29+ is two fold:

1. wide low pressure tires for cush and traction

2. very tall tires for amazing roll through the gnar

B+ will give you #1, but won't give you benefit #2.

If B+ means you can keep the same frame/fork that could be worth it for a bunch of people, but I do see it as not getting the full benefits of 29+. OTOH if the B+ tires are lighter maybe that will be worth it for folks having to accelerate their bikes a lot.

I'll keep an eye out for your reviews comparing 29+ to B+. :thumbsup:


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

The B+ makes the most sense to me at 3.0, 3.25, & 3.5 tire widths where the diameter can reach 29inches. The WTB tire GT is reporting on is a nice effort, but according tho his website, it's not really very wide, it's not really close to a 2.3 29inch tires diameter, and it's really not particularly light at 900 grams. Plus, we'll have to wait and see how many bikes it can actually fit with the wider rims needed to maximize the tire size.

I'm guessing there are going to be some B+ dedicated bikes coming out in the next year, so I think it will be cool to see where the concept goes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Slow Danger said:


> I'm guessing there are going to be some B+ dedicated bikes coming out in the next year, so I think it will be cool to see where the concept goes.


More choices are more betterer! :thumbsup:

The good thing with fatbikes being popular is that the idea of a 3" tire seems totally reasonable.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

vikb said:


> The good thing with fatbikes being popular is that the idea of a 3" tire seems totally reasonable.


Certainly better than the days when XC racing dictated everything in the biz.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

There is already a 2.9 tire full 29" diameter on the way.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

`So, the B+ tire would be perfect for the guy who was dissing 29ers when he got his new 27.5 bike and now wishes he had kept his mouth shut.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

lol, faux 29 is what a b+ should be called.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> There is already a 2.9 tire full 29" diameter on the way.


Care to elaborate?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

jnroyal said:


> Mike - do you have any idea when the Chronicle will be available for sale?


Sorry, no idea.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2014)

Guitar Ted said:


> While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).


If by "just slightly less" you mean only half way to 29er. It's 20mm less, or nearly an inch. The 27.5 format itself is only 38mm less without a +-sized format tire at all! You don't seem to realize that 20mm isn't just a little bit, it's half the shortfall.

Most of the width is coming from the wide rim, the tire itself is only modestly larger. That's why it's not big enough in diameter. As vikb was saying, it would make sense to have a size more compatible with existing frames. Otherwise the tire should *actually* be close to 29", not just half way. You can get nearly the same by sticking existing tires on 50mm rims.

Frankly, if it weren't for the assumption that the tire was mounted on a 50mm, the tire would be more accurately labeled a 2.5", not 2.8.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

craigsj said:


> If by "just slightly less" you mean only half way to 29er. It's 20mm less, or nearly an inch. The 27.5 format itself is only 38mm less without a +-sized format tire at all! You don't seem to realize that 20mm isn't just a little bit, it's half the shortfall.
> 
> Most of the width is coming from the wide rim, the tire itself is only modestly larger. That's why it's not big enough in diameter. As vikb was saying, it would make sense to have a size more compatible with existing frames. Otherwise the tire should *actually* be close to 29", not just half way. You can get nearly the same by sticking existing tires on 50mm rims.
> 
> Frankly, if it weren't for the assumption that the tire was mounted on a 50mm, the tire would be more accurately labeled a 2.5", not 2.8.


Note: I used the word "theoretically". That's because I didn't have an actual example in hand. Do you?

You may be right.

And now I do have an actual sample in hand......


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Guitar Ted said:


> Note: I used the word "theoretically". That's because I didn't have an actual example in hand. Do you?
> 
> You may be right.
> 
> And now I do have an actual sample in hand......


GT, I'm betting that craigsj is referencing reporting on your website, and I'm also pretty sure he'll be on shortly to yell at you about it.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2014)

Guitar Ted said:


> Note: I used the word "theoretically". That's because I didn't have an actual example in hand. Do you?
> 
> You may be right.
> 
> And now I do have an actual sample in hand......


Well, "theoretically", a tire that can fit a "plethora" of 29er frames using a 650B rim size cannot only be "slightly less" in diameter, so the "very idea" is wrong from the start. This has been known since before 650B was adopted and I would think a founder of a site predicated on the value of wheel size would understand that 20mm isn't just in the margin of error. It's full 1/3 of the original difference that justified your site's existence and half the difference between 29 and 650B.

My guess is that a few days ago when you posted that comment you did have an actual example in hand. Otherwise how did you publish an initial review on it? You have samples that no one else has and they are given to you for free. Perhaps that's why you might be driven to overlook that they aren't what they manufacturer claims them to be and why you'd offer posts here that tout the same flawed claims. I guess the value of 29" wheels isn't what it used to be; the ad dollars are elsewhere?


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Slow Danger said:


> GT, I'm betting that craigsj is referencing reporting on your website, and I'm also pretty sure he'll be on shortly to yell at you about it.


You're like Claire-voant or something. Spooky! ;-)


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

craigsj said:


> If by "just slightly less" you mean only half way to 29er. It's 20mm less, or nearly an inch. The 27.5 format itself is only 38mm less without a +-sized format tire at all! You don't seem to realize that 20mm isn't just a little bit, it's half the shortfall.


Hmmm, winging it without the tires in hand..

29" - ISO 622 = 311mm bead seat radius + 59mm big 29er tire = 370mm radius

B+ - ISO 584 = 292mm bead seat radius + 70mm B+ tire = 362mm radius

How do you get 20mm difference?


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

Guitar Ted said:


> While that may work, this very idea is what drives the so called "B+" idea. Bigger volume, 2.8"-ish width, just slightly less diameter than a 2.3" 29"er tire, and the ability to fit a plethora of 29"er frames, (theoretically).


The WTB Trailblazer 650B+ is in.

920 grams.

28.34 inches or 72cm on a 24.6mm wide rim.

By comparison, a Geax Goma 29" 2.4 measures 29.72 inches or 75.5cm on same 24.6mm wide rim.

So the WTB Trailblazer 650B+ is 1.37 inches or 3.5cm shorter than a Geax Goma 2.4" tire on the same 24.6mm rim.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

2melow said:


> So the WTB Trailblazer 650B+ is 1.37 inches or 3.5cm shorter than a Geax Goma 2.4" tire on the same 24.6mm rim.


Good info, but kind of a bummer.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Good info, but kind of a bummer.


That is on a narrow rim.

It's also worth considering that this is analog to the first 29" Nanoraptor and it's going to err on the side of fitting more things that were never designed to fit it. If the idea takes off and frame designers put more clearance in the right spot on their 29/B+ combi bikes, then we'll probably see the volume creep up.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

craigsj said:


> Well, "theoretically", a tire that can fit a "plethora" of 29er frames using a 650B rim size cannot only be "slightly less" in diameter, so the "very idea" is wrong from the start. This has been known since before 650B was adopted and I would think a founder of a site predicated on the value of wheel size would understand that 20mm isn't just in the margin of error. It's full 1/3 of the original difference that justified your site's existence and half the difference between 29 and 650B.
> 
> My guess is that a few days ago when you posted that comment you did have an actual example in hand. Otherwise how did you publish an initial review on it? You have samples that no one else has and they are given to you for free. Perhaps that's why you might be driven to overlook that they aren't what they manufacturer claims them to be and why you'd offer posts here that tout the same flawed claims. I guess the value of 29" wheels isn't what it used to be; the ad dollars are elsewhere?


So...the answer to my question is....?

Nice personal attacks and assumptions, by the way. Thanks.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

dr.welby said:


> That is on a narrow rim.
> 
> It's also worth considering that this is analog to the first 29" Nanoraptor and it's going to err on the side of fitting more things that were never designed to fit it. If the idea takes off and frame designers put more clearance in the right spot on their 29/B+ combi bikes, then we'll probably see the volume creep up.


Agreed. I'm hoping to hear more about total wheels weights and ride characteristics. I care more about those things than total size (height). If these kinds of setups can give me a ride similar to my 29er, but add some fat wheel traction, without too much of a weight penalty, then this could end up as a custom HT for me. I would then probably never need to be lured to FS (which I really don't need).


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

Any feedback on the vee trax fatty?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

If anyone is at Interbike - can you get info on when the Maxxis Chronicle will be available?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

AOK said:


> If anyone is at Interbike - can you get info on when the Maxxis Chronicle will be available?


+1!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Finally, actual pics of the Dirt Wizard 29x3.0"! Second from the right


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

AOK said:


> If anyone is at Interbike - can you get info on when the Maxxis Chronicle will be available?


they said around December

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Panaracer FatBNimble 27.5/29x3.0 $60


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

MTB Pilot said:


> Panaracer FatBNimble 27.5/29x3.0 $60


Whoah. That one's new to me.

So this is at least the 3rd 27.5+ tire I've seen, yet there really is no true 27.5+ bike to run them on. Do the tire makers assume that all the fat bikers are going to buy 27.5 wheels to run these on? Or is this the rare example of the tire makers being ahead of the coming trend?


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

This is getting pretty exciting. The 275+ Panaracer will probably fit my custom 29er hard tail even if it's a real 3.0".

I'm sure some existing production bikes will fit both the WTB and this Panaracer tire. I'm pretty sure the Singular Swift will as it almost clears a 29+ Knard and normally there is more room as you go further back.

And there are a lot of lesser know custom builders out there who can build a compatible frame for less than $1500. And made in the good old USA too.


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## kyttyra (Mar 8, 2012)

I wonder whether some manufacturer will bring out a 29+ slick tyre. Or would that be too niche within a niche 

A 3" Super Moto or equivalent could be fun (and mean terrible things to my wallet)!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

kyttyra said:


> I wonder whether some manufacturer will bring out a 29+ slick tyre. Or would that be too niche within a niche


Just pick up some worn Knards for free to low cost and keep riding them. They'll get slicker by the mile. 

They roll fine on pavement when new so you won't hate life as you "break them in" to slickness.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

MTB Pilot said:


> Panaracer FatBNimble 27.5/29x3.0 $60


That's great news, 29+ and 27.5+ versions! And a good price too!

Any idea when they will be available?


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

Slow Danger said:


> Whoah. That one's new to me.
> 
> So this is at least the 3rd 27.5+ tire I've seen, yet there really is no true 27.5+ bike to run them on. Do the tire makers assume that all the fat bikers are going to buy 27.5 wheels to run these on? Or is this the rare example of the tire makers being ahead of the coming trend?


B+, or 27.5+, will likely fit into most current 29"er hard tails and some FS 29"ers. That is the entire point behind it. Use "plus" sized 27.5" rubber, a new wheelset, and use your current 29"er.

That said, I don't doubt some frame builders will be doing "specific" B+ frames and forks, but that wasn't the point behind the idea at all. (And yes- I have that from the source.)


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

Slow Danger said:


> Whoah. That one's new to me.
> 
> So this is at least the 3rd 27.5+ tire I've seen, yet there really is no true 27.5+ bike to run them on. Do the tire makers assume that all the fat bikers are going to buy 27.5 wheels to run these on? Or is this the rare example of the tire makers being ahead of the coming trend?


Rocky Mountain confirmed that a version of the Sherpa will see production in 2015


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Guitar Ted said:


> B+, or 27.5+, will likely fit into most current 29"er hard tails and some FS 29"ers. That is the entire point behind it. Use "plus" sized 27.5" rubber, a new wheelset, and use your current 29"er.
> 
> That said, I don't doubt some frame builders will be doing "specific" B+ frames and forks, but that wasn't the point behind the idea at all. (And yes- I have that from the source.)


Id like to think this but most crop of HT or FS 29er frames will likely not clear 3.0 tire size as they have difficulty even with 2.4 at times. I'm sure though there's the odd frame that will allow for 3.0 clearance.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

funnyjr said:


> Id like to think this but most crop of HT or FS 29er frames will likely not clear 3.0 tire size as they have difficulty even with 2.4 at times. I'm sure though there's the odd frame that will allow for 3.0 clearance.


It has fit into all the frames I've tried it in so far, (only four, but still...), and it will fit all current sus forks for 29"ers. Keeping in mind that the overall diameter is less than a full on 29"er, (28 9/16ths on a Blunt 35 rim), and that the actual width of the Trailblazer on a Blunt 35 is slightly over 2.6" I think that indeed it will work on may more frames than you might think.

If any other manufacturers do a tire over 2.7-2.8" in the 584ISO bead diameter, then I think you have a very valid point.


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

Ted,
What frames have you put the TrailBlazer in? 
I've just gotten a set and will be trying it in a Niner Air 9 as soon as I get the axles and rotors swapped out.
My 27.5 wheels use the Derby rims with an inside width of 35mm

WTB Trailblazer 2.8

I was kinda hoping to get a list going for frames that this tire fits with the rim used


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Guitar Ted said:


> B+, or 27.5+, will likely fit into most current 29"er hard tails and some FS 29"ers. That is the entire point behind it. Use "plus" sized 27.5" rubber, a new wheelset, and use your current 29"er.
> 
> That said, I don't doubt some frame builders will be doing "specific" B+ frames and forks, but that wasn't the point behind the idea at all. (And yes- I have that from the source.)


Right, but you're referring to the Trailblazer, a claimed 2.8 tire that measures out much narrower. If the FatBnimble and the Vee Trax 3.0 tires fit into most 29ers, I'll be shocked. I think you are letting one tire speak for the entire B+ concept. It's not like WTB is way out front of Vee Trax or Panaracer. I understand WTB's intentions. We'll have to see how many frames their Scrapper wheel set and Trailblazer tire fit into. Part of what people think about when they hear + sized bikes is fattish rims. Sounds like riders will have to drop to a 35mm rim, and lower, to fit the Trailblazer into "most" 29er frames. And a true 3.0 tire not at all. What I would consider a true 27.5 plus bike doesn't exist yet. Yet the tires are being announced. Obviously these are all labels, and whatever floats a rider's boat, and it would sure be great if I could fit a true 3.0 tire on a 40-50mm 650b rim in my already owned 29er, but that ain't happening. I'd even take a true 2.8.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

As much BS that is spewed over this "B+" format by the companies that try to profit and the bloggers who try to generate ad revenue from pumping it, it still remains that the tire/rim does not come close to an actual 29er in rolling diameter, nor does it make a compelling argument against a tire of identical width mounted on a 29er rim of 35-40mm width (or even 50mm width). This fraudulent "B+" format is in no way a substitute or replacement for a 29er wheel nor does it offer anything that isn't done better with a 29er rim and the same dimension tire. You'd think people who understood the value of large wheels would know better.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm with stupid^

The whole point of the krampus was 29" wheels with oversized rubber, but not too big. Everybody declares how much traction there is and how well it rolls. So the counterpoint is to...go smaller? It's great that it fits in so many 29er frames, but just like 650b is a compromise between 26 and 29, what's the point of half fat on a half size wheel?


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## Balor (Jan 21, 2011)

Well, one can have too much traction (self-steer).

Also, a wheel this tall might cause problems with FS rigs, and you might run into toe overlap on smaller sizes.
And wheelbase will be understandably 'train-like'.

But I think you have a point. After all, there 140mm travel niners. If you reduce travel by 20mm and increase max tyre size to 3"... that might be perfect AM machine.
Gobs of traction everywhere except loose sand, no self-steer, tyres will gobble small stuff and suspension will deal with big hits. And due to relatively short travel it would still be quite pedalable... but 'you must be THIS-> tall to ride this bike'  

Fortunately I am ~6ft.
Lesser people will likely have to deal with B+ wheels.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

One issue with traction and tire size that folks overlook is that with a wide tire your run low pressures which pushes each knob into the ground with less force relative to the same knob pattern on a skinny 2.4" tire.

So some surfaces you get more traction from a 3" tire and some you get less. Just depends on the situation and how important it is for the knobs to dig into the ground.

Also consider that if you go to a very aggressively knobbed wide tire to get more traction with less ground pressure you now end up with a very heavy tire to roll.

I love my 29+ rig, but it's a mistake to assume wide tire = more traction all the time.

There are pros and cons to each option.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> As much BS that is spewed over this "B+" format by the companies that try to profit and the bloggers who try to generate ad revenue from pumping it, it still remains that the tire/rim does not come close to an actual 29er in rolling diameter, nor does it make a compelling argument against a tire of identical width mounted on a 29er rim of 35-40mm width (or even 50mm width). This fraudulent "B+" format is in no way a substitute or replacement for a 29er wheel nor does it offer anything that isn't done better with a 29er rim and the same dimension tire. You'd think people who understood the value of large wheels would know better.


I'm not sure why you are so anti B+. I'm not seeing all the 'BS that is spewed over this "B+" format by companies that try to profit and bloggers who try to generate ad revenue from pumping it'. WTB has barely even mentioned this tire, It just recently go put on their website, and it'e not even on their special 'New 2015 Tires' page. Pretty much the only place to find information on this stuff is right here, on MTBR.

Believe it or not, 29+ does have limitations. A true 27.5+ tire will have some advantages over a 29+ tire in same situations. Just like a 29+ tire will have some advantages over a 27.5+ tire in some situations. To state that a 29+ tire does everything better is just false. If larger wheels are always better, why are you not riding 36" wheels?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

sandwich said:


> I'm with stupid^
> 
> The whole point of the krampus was 29" wheels with oversized rubber, but not too big. Everybody declares how much traction there is and how well it rolls. So the counterpoint is to...go smaller? It's great that it fits in so many 29er frames, but just like 650b is a compromise between 26 and 29, what's the point of half fat on a half size wheel?


The problem with your statement is that not everyone declares 29+ as perfect. Yes, it has awesome traction, yes it holds momentum great, but it's not perfect, it's also a compromise. They are heavy, they take more effort to accelerate, etc.

The point of 27.5+is to get the rollover of a 29er with the traction and bump eating properties of 29+, but in a lighter more maneuverable package.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

bikeny said:


> I'm not sure why you are so anti B+. I'm not seeing all the 'BS that is spewed over this "B+" format by companies that try to profit and bloggers who try to generate ad revenue from pumping it'. WTB has barely even mentioned this tire, It just recently go put on their website, and it'e not even on their special 'New 2015 Tires' page. Pretty much the only place to find information on this stuff is right here, on MTBR.


I'm anti-dishonesty, not anti-B+. B+, though, is a slightly bigger tire on a massively larger rim, not a new format. Also, there's this pretense that it works out to be close to a 29er when it does not. The shortfall is nearly the same as the difference between 26 and 650B itself which, in another context, is considered massive. Very selective double standards here.



bikeny said:


> Believe it or not, 29+ does have limitations. A true 27.5+ tire will have some advantages over a 29+ tire in same situations. Just like a 29+ tire will have some advantages over a 27.5+ tire in some situations. To state that a 29+ tire does everything better is just false. If larger wheels are always better, why are you not riding 36" wheels?


It would be interesting to enumerate those differences rather than to just suggest that they matter.

Having not ridden a 36" wheeled bike there could be a lot of reasons, but I don't have interest because there is no infrastructure to support that wheel size. I have stated previously that I would have preferred the industry invest in a larger than 29er wheel size rather than on the 650B fool's gold that it has. I suspect 36" is too big but you are thinking right.

Let's approach this another way. How many riders do you think will consider a "performance upgrade" for their new 650B bikes by swapping their wheels out for 26ers? NONE. Why, then, will B+ appeal to 29er riders as a "performance upgrade"? Same downgrade in wheel size, same adverse consequences on BB height. Funny how one would matter so greatly while the other one not at all. It's just about the buzz.

Frankly, if you wanted a + format swap out for existing frames, you should make a 26+ format that fits into 650B frames. Makes more sense and the diameter *would* match them. Big wheel suck anyway, right?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

bikeny said:


> The point of 27.5+is to get the rollover of a 29er with the traction and bump eating properties of 29+, but in a lighter more maneuverable package.


This is complete nonsense that reads like the marketing BS of 650B itself.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> This is complete nonsense that reads like the marketing BS of 650B itself.


Please explain why this is nonsense. I really wish you would actually explain some of your ideas instead of just insulting people, maybe someone would actually learn something!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> I'm anti-dishonesty, not anti-B+. B+, though, is a slightly bigger tire on a massively larger rim, not a new format. Also, there's this pretense that it works out to be close to a 29er when it does not. The shortfall is nearly the same as the difference between 26 and 650B itself which, in another context, is considered massive. Very selective double standards here.
> 
> It would be interesting to enumerate those differences rather than to just suggest that they matter.
> 
> ...


Have you even ridden 29+ tires? Have you even considered that some trails might be better suited to different tire sizes? Oh wait, you just bought the most expensive 50mm wide 29er rims to try out, but you think they are clownishly big and offer no performance advantages.

I have ridden 29ers extensively over the last 10 years, and 29+ over the past 2 years. The extra diameter and weight of the 29+ works great in some situations, but not all. On tight twisty technical singletrack with constant direction changes and accelerations, they are just too big. Too much effort is required get them back up to speed every time.

And your 27.5 to 26+ argument actually makes sense. If I was ridding 27.5 and liked the ride but wanted more comfort and traction, 26+ would be a great option. In fact, 26+ actually exists, again thanks to Surly.

And why are you inferring that I think big wheels suck? I have never said anything even remotely close to that.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Please explain why this is nonsense. I really wish you would actually explain some of your ideas instead of just insulting people, maybe someone would actually learn something!





> The point of 27.5+is to get the rollover of a 29er with the traction and bump eating properties of 29+, but in a lighter more maneuverable package.


1. How do you know what the point of 27.5+ is?
2. 27.5+ does not get the rollover of 29 since it is an inch smaller in diameter.
3. The difference in weight between 27.5+ and 29+ is the same as between 27.5 and 29, a few percent. 
4. 27.5+ will almost certainly be heavier and more sluggish than conventional 29ers. 
5. 27.5+ does not inherently offer a "more maneuverable package". Bicycles are maneuverable, wheels are parts.

Not only did you claim to know what you can't, everything you said is classic 650B propaganda. Take away the "+" and we've heard it before.

27.5+ is 29+ only 38mm smaller in diameter. That's it, no magic, just like 650B generally.

The point of B+ is that it's 650B and that means it must be better in some people's minds. 650B is too small to be a drop in on 29er frames. We all knew that going in but now we're supposed to pretend otherwise.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Have you even ridden 29+ tires? Have you even considered that some trails might be better suited to different tire sizes? Oh wait, you just bought the most expensive 50mm wide 29er rims to try out, but you think they are clownishly big and offer no performance advantages.


Are you choking on the fact that I bought the "most expensive" 50mm rims? Does it make you angry? I'll be sure to post pics for you.

Of course, everything else you said is dishonest and intentionally misleading. What a surprise.

What I said was that "better" was an unjustified value judgement, that B+ would be a better size match if it chose a smaller rim and larger casing, that's it's not at all clear that a 50mm is a compelling advantage for a 65mm tire, and that there's no reason a 35mm rim would not work just fine in that application. I did say they are clownishly big but that's my favorite part.

Regarding my purchase, I intend to do my testing, not just run my mouth like so many here do. I am convinced that 50mm won't suck or I wouldn't have invested. Furthermore, I have tested a cheaper 50mm rim already with 29+ but it blows. I would have preferred a somewhat smaller rim and said so. Frankly, if I had it to do again I wouldn't, I would simply wait for the Ibis rims to come available. Ultimately I believe I will view the big rims as nothing more than a liability at the tire sizes I'm interested in. They will look good, though.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> 1. How do you know what the point of 27.5+ is?
> 2. 27.5+ does not get the rollover of 29 since it is an inch smaller in diameter.
> 3. The difference in weight between 27.5+ and 29+ is the same as between 27.5 and 29, a few percent.
> 4. 27.5+ will almost certainly be heavier and more sluggish than conventional 29ers.
> ...


1. I know the point of 27.5+ because I actually read and comprehend stuff. Written by the people who had a hand in creating it.
2. 27.5+ will have the same rollover as a smaller 29er tire, as the diameter is the same.
3. The difference in weight will depend on a lot of factors, stating it will be a few percent is false. In general, tire weights between the same model in the 2 sizes are 50 to 100g for non '+' tires. The weight difference between '+' models will be even more. Not too many rims to compare, but looking at the Hugo and Blunt 35, about 40g per rim. Shorter spokes will cut some weight as well. So you are looking at at least 150g per wheel, more than a few percent.
4. Why will 27.5+ be heavier than conventional 29er? Even if it is, there will be performance advantages that will be worth the extra weight FOR SOME RIDERS.
5. 27.5+ will most certainly be more maneuverable than 29+ all else being equal.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> Are you choking on the fact that I bought the "most expensive" 50mm rims? Does it make you angry? I'll be sure to post pics for you.
> 
> Of course, everything else you said is dishonest and intentionally misleading. What a surprise.
> 
> ...


Why would I care about what rims you bought, except to point out that you think they offer no advantage yet spent big money on them. I just bought virtually the same rims for a fraction of the cost, I'll be sure to post pics for you.

Please explain what was dishonest and intentionally misleading about what I said.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

craigsj said:


> This is complete nonsense that reads like the marketing BS of 650B itself.


these WTB 2.8" tires certainly makes sense to me and most others I have talked to about it. They offer a clear advantage for loose sandy condition like we have in the So Cal area. I certainly am going to get a set myself.

Perhaps your opinion is best kept to yourself if you don't have anything positive to contribute?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

1. Sure thing, I believe you. 
2. For some 29er tire that you get to pick.  29er tires that are 28", a CX tire.
3. The difference in size between 650B and 29 is 5-6%. That will be the weight difference as well. Again, you cherry pick data to suit you.
4. Because + tires are heavier than 29er tires, especially when you are picking sub-2" 29er tires for the rollover comparison!
5. No they won't. Wheels aren't maneuverable, bicycles are. Maneuverability is a function of wheelbase mostly. Prove that B+ results in a shorter wheelbase, especially when you claim the diameter is the same.

Like typical MTBR posters, you make up data to suit your opinions and you don't understand the issues as well as you think.



bikeny said:


> Why would I care about what rims you bought, except to point out that you think they offer no advantage yet spent big money on them. I just bought virtually the same rims for a fraction of the cost, I'll be sure to post pics for you.


Indeed, why should you? And why would you comment on the cost? And why do you think they represent "big money" to me?

I'm sure, though, you got virtually the same rims for a fraction of the cost. You are better than me in every way, right? I bet you talked personally with the people who made my rims, too, and they assured you that the comments you are making about my purchase are accurate and not misleading in any way!



bikeny said:


> Please explain what was dishonest and intentionally misleading about what I said.


I've done that already, you're just in denial.

Here's another way to look at the questionable value of 50mm rims. A wider rim produces a wider casing but that alone means nothing other than more clearance is required. On smaller tires the extra wide rim results in little or no performance benefit, a tire must be large enough before the benefit is there. Problem is that clearance becomes an issue before that pays off (on conventional trail bikes). All the wide rim does is cause clearance issues before it becomes a win.

Of course, this is subjective but based on commonly accepted rim widths today it is absolutely the case. B+ tire widths could be implemented with a larger casing on a 40mm rim and still have a wide rim by today's standards. They would be a better size match, have better rollover, and support lower pressures. Wouldn't look as cool, though. Sorry, but this has not been thought through by competent engineers.

On a bike designed for clearance this is not an issue, but that's not the case for me and my specific purchase NOR is it the case for a format that is specifically intended as a retrofit for existing frames. I'm not saying 50mm is universally a bad size, just that it isn't the smart choice for the intended application.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> 1. Sure thing, I believe you.
> 2. For some 29er tire that you get to pick.  29er tires that are 28", a CX tire.
> 3. The difference in size between 650B and 29 is 5-6%. That will be the weight difference as well. Again, you cherry pick data to suit you.
> 4. Because + tires are heavier than 29er tires, especially when you are picking sub-2" 29er tires for the rollover comparison!
> ...


You seem to have reading comprehension problems, so I am going to try to explain this stuff really clearly.

The diameter difference that you are so concerned about all depends on what you are comparing it to. Nobody ever said this WTB 27.5x2.8 tire would be the same diameter as the fattest 29er tires out there. Not everyone rides 29x2.4 tires on 35mm rims. Most people ride 2.1 to 2.2 tires on smaller rims. The WTB tire is the same diameter as a small/medium size 29er tire on what you call a 'commonly accepted rim width'. I know that because I have measured them myself.

The weight difference between 29+ and 27+ will not be your theoretical 5-6%. There is not much out to compare right now, but I will take the only current published information that is available to compare 29+ to 27.5+. The only tire that is available in both formats is the Vee Trax Fatty(the 27.5 version is actually wider as well). The lightest 29+ version weighs 920g, the lightest 27.5 version weighs 800g. The only plus size rim with information available in both sizes is the Hugo. The 29er version weighs 622g, the 27.5 version weighs 585g. So if we use real math to add rim + tire weight, we get a 29+ weight of 1542, and a 27.5+ weight of 1385g. Then we use more math to figure out that the 29+ is 11.3% heavier than 27.5+. Obviously, all setups will not have the same weight difference, but that's all we have right now.

You are mixing up your 29er and 29+ arguments on number 5. I said 27.5+ will be more maneuverable than 29+. The handling and maneuverability of a bike does not depend mostly on wheelbase, that is a false and misleading statement. There are tons of variables that go into that equation. Wheelbase is certainly one of them, but so are wheel weight, wheel diameter, head tube angle, seat tube angle, etc.

You are the only one here making up data. Not once have you supported anything you have said with personal experience or actual data.

The rest of your argument makes no sense and contains a whole bunch or theories and arguments based on nothing.

You seem to be under the impression that B+ was created to fit into existing frames. The WTB Trailblazer was designed to fit into existing frames, that is correct. The whole format was not. That's why the other tires will be bigger, and there will be new frames designed to fit them.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2014)

bikeny said:


> The diameter difference that you are so concerned about all depends on what you are comparing it to. Nobody ever said this WTB 27.5x2.8 tire would be the same diameter as the fattest 29er tires out there. Not everyone rides 29x2.4 tires on 35mm rims. Most people ride 2.1 to 2.2 tires on smaller rims. The WTB tire is the same diameter as a small/medium size 29er tire on what you call a 'commonly accepted rim width'. I know that because I have measured them myself.


Why would anyone consider upgrading to B+ if they are satisfied with small/medium size 29er tires? Why wouldn't they try the "fattest 29er tires out there" first? It makes utterly no sense to compare B+ to narrower 29er tires except that it supports your narrative.

2.1-2.2 29er tires are larger than the WTB anyway. You have to go sub-2.0" to match and those are hard to find. The WTB tire is barely larger than the largest 650B tires to begin with.



bikeny said:


> The weight difference between 29+ and 27+ will not be your theoretical 5-6%.


It will and it does for conventional sizes. You can make up whatever non-verifiable numbers you want, but there's no reason for a weight difference beyond the size difference itself.

BTW, say a wheel set weighs about 3500g. That wouldn't be outside of normal. 5-6% of that is about 100g per wheel and that's what it should be roughly speaking. Furthermore, that will become 2% of the entire bike and 0.3% of the bike+rider. BFD. No one would care about this if it weren't so important to tell us how great 650B is.



bikeny said:


> You are mixing up your 29er and 29+ arguments on number 5. I said 27.5+ will be more maneuverable than 29+. The handling and maneuverability of a bike does not depend mostly on wheelbase, that is a false and misleading statement. There are tons of variables that go into that equation. Wheelbase is certainly one of them, but so are wheel weight, wheel diameter, head tube angle, seat tube angle, etc.


Ignoring the absurdity of suggesting that seat tube angle affects maneuverability, you clearly are a shallow thinker in this area. Wheel weight and diameter don't, in fact, affect this despite common belief and head tube angle isn't dictated by wheel format. By far, the greatest dimension that wheel size impacts is wheelbase (then CS length). You must prove that B+ will result in meaningful reductions here or your assertion is worthless. Maneuverability is just another wardrum that the small-wheeled crowd beats.



bikeny said:


> Not once have you supported anything you have said with personal experience or actual data.


What actual data would you like me to make up? I don't brag about my personal conquests, they are meaningless to the forums. I stick with verifiable data of which there is little so far.



bikeny said:


> You seem to be under the impression that B+ was created to fit into existing frames. The WTB Trailblazer was designed to fit into existing frames, that is correct. The whole format was not. That's why the other tires will be bigger, and there will be new frames designed to fit them.


I thought you talked to the guys who created B+? Who were they exactly and can we get a notarized statement?

Why bother comparing B+ to 29 at all if the format isn't retrofit? Frankly, we all know the retrofit concept is flawed because the rim is too small.

Incidently, I'm not opposed to B+, I'm opposed to calling the WTB a new format simply because it's mount on an enormous rim. It's barely bigger than an Ardent 2.4. True 3.0 or 3.25" fine, but those aren't fitting into 29er frames so comparing them to 29ers is meaningless.

Still, you have to try abnormally hard to justify B+ over 29+, the most compelling argument traditionally being long travel suspensions which aren't applicable (at this time). Bigger wheels work better.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> I stick with verifiable data of which there is little so far.


Funny stuff! You have provided exactly zero verifiable data. Myself and others have actually provided verifiable data, but you claim we are lying.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> Why would anyone consider upgrading to B+ if they are satisfied with small/medium size 29er tires? Why wouldn't they try the "fattest 29er tires out there" first? It makes utterly no sense to compare B+ to narrower 29er tires except that it supports your narrative.
> 
> 2.1-2.2 29er tires are larger than the WTB anyway. You have to go sub-2.0" to match and those are hard to find. The WTB tire is barely larger than the largest 650B tires to begin with.
> 
> ...


You, sir, have elevated the art of spewing sh!t to a whole new level of awesomeness. I bow at your sh!t spewing feet. You should be crowned the King of MTBR sh!t spewing. There are plenty of people on MTBR who spew sh!t, but their sh!t spewing pales in comparison to the mighty craigsj. Your 2282 posts should be required reading for all MTBR wanna-be sh!t spewers. That last post of yours has so much sh!t spewing it's impossible to even begin a rebuttal. That post should go into the sh!t spewing hall of fame for all to read and admire. I'm not sure how you refined your sh!t spewing to the level you are currently spewing sh!t, but you should really consider holding a sh!t spewing seminar so others can learn how to spew sh!t as well as you. Or maybe the world is not ready for that level of sh!t spewing from multiple sh!t spewers, the interwebs may just implode if confronted with that quantity and quality of spewed sh!t.

Thanks for the entertainment:thumbsup:


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

:cornut:


bikeny said:


> craigsj said:
> 
> 
> > Why would anyone consider upgrading to B+ if they are satisfied with small/medium size 29er tires? Why wouldn't they try the "fattest 29er tires out there" first? It makes utterly no sense to compare B+ to narrower 29er tires except that it supports your narrative.
> ...


Awesome !!
Two Thumbs Up :thumbsup::thumbsup:
:cornut:


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

craigsj said:


> "A wider rim produces a wider casing but that alone means nothing other than more clearance is required.
> On smaller tires the extra wide rim results in little or no performance benefit, a tire must be large enough before the benefit is there. "


Out of the many very entertaining statements you have made over the last couple of days.. This one is a true gem :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Thank You 

You do have plenty of enthusiasm. Gotta give you that.
Yes craig... Yes !!! ..a smaller tire on a wider rim can have desirable effects for some situations..
depending on the carcass construction it can better support and stiffen the sidewall, 
it can change the profile of the tread, it can change the angles of deflection, it can change the shape/size/depth of the contact patch, etc...
and, there will always be compromises too.

The point is for gearheads like us there are ways we can "tune" a tire for a desired effect just like a motorbuilder tunes an engine with cam timing, or fuel mapping, or whatever....
tire choice, rim choice, and pressure are the tools. There isn't a single formula that will always work every time because there is such a large amount of variables to deal with.
no two tires measure the same way. even within the same brand and model the variations are pretty wide. 
MFG's, mechanic's, engineer's, etc.. are not liars because their measurements come out different then yours. It just would'nt be worth the expense to reduce that variation to thousands of an inch

Maybe, it would be nice if a tire size was only referred to by the ERD, profile height, and width. 
Honestly, I don't really care if two tires are both "labled" the same 29" diameter and neither really are 29"... I do care that they are different from each other. 
Thats a good thing it gives me more choices. I still need to have it my hands to see if it might work for what I want. 
In in any kind of tuning/racing/tweekin' there have never been shortcuts to that.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

From DirtRag Interbike roundup:

Surly finally has samples of the awaited 29x3.0 Dirt Wizard tire. The tread pattern is changed from the 26x2.75 that comes stock on the Instigator, beefing up the cornering knobs, and almost eliminating the small intermediate knobs. Prices and TPI counts will be similar to the Knard, but there was talk about offering a TPI count between the current heavy and sturdy 27TPI wire bead and the light and fragile 120TPI model with the folding bead. We are still going to have to wait until spring at the earliest for these tires, but we should have the 29+ offerings from Maxxis and Vee Tire in-house soon to play with in the meantime.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Funny stuff! You have provided exactly zero verifiable data. Myself and others have actually provided verifiable data, but you claim we are lying.


I would rather provide no data than made up data. What verifiable data have you provided?

I do know from the recent WTB "review" that the WTB tire has a casing size of 165mm. I also know from that review that the rolling diameter is 20mm less than an Ikon 2.35 on a 35mm 29er rim. I know the Ikon dimensions because I've measured them and they're verifiable. The Ikon has a 150mm casing size. I measured that as well.

I also know the casing size of the Knard is 185mm. I know that because I measured it and it's verifiable. It has a casing 20mm larger than the WTB.

You know what else I know? The Geax Goma has a casing size of 160mm. Although it's a 29er, it's the same weight as the WTB and measures 64mm wide unstretched on a Dually rim. You can add 2mm or so to match the WTB rim. The Goma has a 63mm tread width vs. 60mm for the WTB and is a full inch larger in diameter. All that is verifiable as well since you can buy those readily.

So you see, bikeny, I do measure things and I know how to run a calculator. I don't fall for the nonsense that 650B wheels as just as big as 29ers and are a lot lighter. I'm onto the game. 

It is interesting that the Goma is very close to the same size tire as the WTB despite being labeled a 2.4. On a 50mm rim it will measure 2.6 unstretched and perhaps 2.7 after use. It also has a more proportional tread. The WTB listed as a B+ 2.8 tire is a fraud.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2014)

bikeny said:


> You, sir, have elevated the art of spewing sh!t to a whole new level of awesomeness. ...


This is what I expect from posters like you. Temper tantrums.


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

craigsj said:


> The WTB listed as a B+ 2.8 tire is a fraud.


Why are you so angry?
And, who other then you gives a rats a zzzz...

And by the way, it's not a game or conspiracy.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Small point here regarding BB height when running 27.5+ on a 29er: If you run the 3" tire the way it's generally intended to be used, you'll be running lower pressure. So there will be more "tire sag" when the rider is on the bike. And the fat tires actually lend themselves to riding slower stuff where a higher bottom bracket is usually more desirable.

Not an absolute deal killer, but I do believe the BB is going to end up .5 to .6 lower with the lower pressures and rider weight on the bike.


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## flyinmike (Dec 17, 2005)

craigsj said:


> You know what else I know? The Geax Goma has a casing size of 160mm. Although it's a 29er, it's the same weight as the WTB and measures 64mm wide unstretched on a Dually rim. You can add 2mm or so to match the WTB rim. The Goma has a 63mm tread width vs. 60mm for the WTB and is a full inch larger in diameter. All that is verifiable as well since you can buy those readily.
> 
> So you see, bikeny, I do measure things and I know how to run a calculator. I don't fall for the nonsense that 650B wheels as just as big as 29ers and are a lot lighter. I'm onto the game.


Maybe' just maybe... :idea:
WTB has designed and produced a tire that enhances different characteristics then what the Goma does
They were not trying to design or market a tire to compete with the Goma. 
Much less design a tire that fits on a 650B rim and is the same size as -whatever- tire you want to measure 
it is a mute point.... with no practical or useful knowledge
They designed a tire to fit on a 29er bike and have specific characteristics 
It has nothing to do with what a traditional 29er tire measures out to or how any other 29er tire performs

others have provided measurements of the Trailblazer on a specific rim.. not you.
You measure another tire that has nothing to with ++ tires or their intended function

Arguing that there is some kind of conspiracy because the Trailblazer is less then 2.8" wide or less then 29" tall is ridiculous. it has nothing to do with the intended use of the tire or with the subject of this thread.

if you want to express these kind of conspiracy theories... Please, please, start your own thread 
that would be the appropriate way to further your opinion.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

flyinmike said:


> Please, please, start your own thread .


This! Believe it or not, some of us are actually following this thread to learn about - you guessed it - 29+ tire choices.

I don't know how we got off on B+ much less the crap storm of insults and conspiracy theories. Please start another thread.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AOK said:


> This! Believe it or not, some of us are actually following this thread to learn about - you guessed it - 29+ tire choices.
> 
> I don't know how we got off on B+ much less the crap storm of insults and conspiracy theories. Please start another thread.


+1 - take the B+ stuff to another thread.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

AOK said:


> This! Believe it or not, some of us are actually following this thread to learn about - you guessed it - 29+ tire choices.
> 
> I don't know how we got off on B+ much less the crap storm of insults and conspiracy theories. Please start another thread.


+2!!


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

AOK said:


> From DirtRag Interbike roundup:
> 
> Surly finally has samples of the awaited 29x3.0 Dirt Wizard tire. The tread pattern is changed from the 26x2.75 that comes stock on the Instigator, beefing up the cornering knobs, and almost eliminating the small intermediate knobs. Prices and TPI counts will be similar to the Knard, but there was talk about offering a TPI count between the current heavy and sturdy 27TPI wire bead and the light and fragile 120TPI model with the folding bead. We are still going to have to wait until spring at the earliest for these tires, but we should have the 29+ offerings from Maxxis and Vee Tire in-house soon to play with in the meantime.


Reposting some 29+ news since it seems to have been lost in the argument.

Sounds like the mythical Dirt Wizard 29+ is still a ways off.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Also, if the video from Panaracer at Interbike is to be believed, the Fat B Nimble 29x3 tire will be available this fall. The announced pricing is also great, $60 for the folding version, less for the wire bead.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*Move to Fat Bike forum?*



AOK said:


> This! Believe it or not, some of us are actually following this thread to learn about - you guessed it - 29+ tire choices.
> 
> I don't know how we got off on B+ much less the crap storm of insults and conspiracy theories. Please start another thread.


You are absolutely correct, this discussion should be elsewhere. The question is where? There is a thread in the 29er components forum that discusses some of this stuff too. Unless a new 'Plus size tire' forum gets created, I propose moving it too the 'Fat Bike' forum. There is actually already a thread there about the WTB Trailblazer. Maybe craigsj won't be able to find it


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> You are absolutely correct, this discussion should be elsewhere. The question is where?


650B forum. They need some new stuff to talk about now that 650B is old hat and accepted widely across the bike industry.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AOK said:


> Sounds like the mythical Dirt Wizard 29+ is still a ways off.


Tragic.  Dirt Wizard 29+ you are dead to me.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Maybe craigsj won't be able to find it


STFU applies to you too, bikeny, not just me. You want to keep taking shots at me, you will continue to get them back.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

vikb said:


> Tragic.  Dirt Wizard 29+ you are dead to me.


No kidding, this tire was announced over a year ago and still nothing. Major bummer. Spring? There will be at least 5-6 29+ tires by then it seems like.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

GSJ1973 said:


> No kidding, this tire was announced over a year ago and still nothing. Major bummer. Spring? There will be at least 5-6 29+ tires by then it seems like.


Agreed, I'm about ready to go back to fat. At least in that world they have real tire choices that can actually be PURCHASED!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

GSJ1973 said:


> There will be at least 5-6 29+ tires by then it seems like.


There should be, but I have learned not to assume anything when it comes to 29+ rubber. Companies like to talk about it, but there are clearly some challenges to actually producing the tires.

Knards work well enough for me that I can wait and I'll buy another 120tpi set of Knards if I have to since they will get used even if I have a more aggressive knobby set of tires.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've started a B+ thread. So please take all the B+ OT posts there where the interested parties can enjoy them and let's leave this thread on topic about 29+.

http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/650b-tires-931412.html


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

vikb said:


> I've started a B+ thread. So please take all the B+ OT posts there where the interested parties can enjoy them and let's leave this thread on topic about 29+.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/650b-tires-931412.html


Thanks for that, vikb!


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Was googling for info on the Chronicle and found this in a Pinkbike article from back in March (Taipei show report):



> The other option is the Chronicle (above left), a 29'' x 3'' tire that fits into the small but growing 29er+ category that isn't quite full-on fat bike in size. It will be available in two versions: a dual compound, 120 TPI model that features Maxxis' mid-weight EXO casing; and a 60 TPI version that eschews the EXO casing but still gets the dual compound rubber treatment. Word is that both the Mammoth and the Chronicle will be available to the public this coming September.


Would be nice if these actually show up this month, but given the dearth of info from IB I seriously doubt they will.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm really looking forward to the Maxxis release. Hope more will follow suit. I've given up hope on the DW, like I gave up on RH rims earlier this year. Gotta get a new Flow EX front wheel built, though.



vikb said:


> I've started a B+ thread. So please take all the B+ OT posts there where the interested parties can enjoy them and let's leave this thread on topic about 29+.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/650b-tires-931412.html


Seems their lover's quarrel is more appropriate for PM's, or IRL meet up.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/09/17...-mtb-line-updates-mission-fat-bike-tire-more/

3 new 29x3.0 tires offered from Vee? Had not heard about these until now.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

AOK said:


> EB14: Vee Tire Co Takes the Crown w/ New MTB Line, Updates Mission Fat Bike Tire, More
> 
> 3 new 29x3.0 tires offered from Vee? Had not heard about these until now.


According to the comments, that might be a typo since the tires in the photo show 29 x 2.3 sizing


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Ah - didn't see the comments. I thought it was too good to be true since the rest of the article was talking about enduro racing & such.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

AOK said:


> Was googling for info on the Chronicle and found this in a Pinkbike article from back in March (Taipei show report):
> 
> Would be nice if these actually show up this month, but given the dearth of info from IB I seriously doubt they will.


Post 118 of this thread. Someone asked Maxxis at Interbike, and they said December.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

bikeny said:


> Post 118 of this thread. Someone asked Maxxis at Interbike, and they said December.


Post #53 Mike C said ETA on the Bonty would also be Dec. So with the exception of maybe the Panaracer, pretty much will be 2015 before anything else is available (except the Vee Trax).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I think we should all have a gentlemen's agreement that we don't post any ETAs. Just product info and when a tire is actually available for sale. The ETAs = "lies all lies!"


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

vikb said:


> I think we should all have a gentlemen's agreement that we don't post any ETAs. Just product info and when a tire is actually available for sale. The ETAs = "lies all lies!"


Sounds good to me. :yesnod:


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

vikb said:


> I think we should all have a gentlemen's agreement that we don't post any ETAs. Just product info and when a tire is actually available for sale. The ETAs = "lies all lies!"


So true!

I guess I will probably end up going Knard then. Don't think I want to wait until Dec (or beyond) for a Chronicle. The Krampus is all built up and I am just waiting for Krampus-worthy rubber (he looks kind of like a wet cat with the tiny 2.0 tires that are mounted as placeholders while I was working on the build).


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

kyttyra said:


> I wonder whether some manufacturer will bring out a 29+ slick tyre. Or would that be too niche within a niche
> 
> A 3" Super Moto or equivalent could be fun (and mean terrible things to my wallet)!


Go and ask Schwalbe for it.
They refused a blank check to start making the 29x2.35" ones when they had the tooling ready for it. After that it took them years to come up with the idea by themselves.
Such 3.0 Supermoto's would be marvellous I'm sure though. Commuting, beach racing, and sandy trail riding. 2.35 does that well even in 26".


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

We mounted some 2.35 Big Apples on Rabbit Holes at the shop and they measured 2.5 with the calipers. Mounted really easy and looked BA. Didn't get a chance to see how they ride though.


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## ECR (Sep 25, 2013)

kyttyra said:


> I wonder whether some manufacturer will bring out a 29+ slick tyre. Or would that be too niche within a niche
> 
> A 3" Super Moto or equivalent could be fun (and mean terrible things to my wallet)!


I'm in!

Already have 2.35 Super Motos mounted on Derby Rims for my next 29+ build, but I'd prefer 3" tires.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Those who have used any 29+ tire other than the Knard, how is tubeless setup? I'm hoping that the Chronicle, Bontrager, or Panaracer offerings are a bit more tubeless friendly than the Knards are.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I'm running Maxxis tubeless ready on Stans Flow EX and I was amazed at how easy it is to set the bead. Just used a floor pump, I've mounted three tires so far. That's why I'm holding out for the Chronicles for my Krampus, it looks as if they'll work great on Rabbit Holes. If money wasn't a little tight I'd run some 2.5" Maxxis Minions on my Krampus but new tyres for this bike are perpetually 6 months away so I stay on the Knards.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Ive run knards and vee traxx fattys both on duallys. Tubless with the duallys is a PITA. The vee tire setup tubeless better on the dually then the knard. I now have a set of nextie jungle fox carbon wheels and am running a knard out front and the vee In the back. Both setup tubeless very easy on this wheelset. One strip of tape to cover the wholes and the rims did the rest. They both seated with a very solid pop over the bead locking hump. I did have to use a compressor as the rim bed has a 12mm deep channel and I couldnt get the tires startrd with my crappy floor pump.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I just setup a pair of 1 year old well used 120 Knards on Jungle Fox rims as well. Initial fit was really loose, so I installed them with a tube first to get the beads seated. Then unseated one bead, removed tube, and installed tubeless valve. I then had to pull the loose bead up onto the shelf all the way around, but once I did that, they aired right up with a floor pump. They even held air surprisingly well without sealant. I did, of course, add Stan's sealant through the valve before riding. Only one ride so far, but all good!


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I have some 29x2.3 Geax tattoos on my Karate Monkey commuter. Fit on Velocity P-35'S the seem to work well for the pave and some dirt on the way home. Similar to the tread design as a hookworm.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Maxxis Ardent 2.4 / 2.2


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

kyttyra said:


> I wonder whether some manufacturer will bring out a 29+ slick tyre. Or would that be too niche within a niche
> 
> A 3" Super Moto or equivalent could be fun (and mean terrible things to my wallet)!


The Super Moto isn't 'slick' 

Kojaks are the best combination of fast & fun & comfortable street/city/urban trail tire I have ever used. A 29+ Kojak could be really fast, and really cush.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

What kind of puncture protection are we talking about? If we're talking city riding we're talking staples, glass, and other trash. I'm happy with my 2.0 Big Bens on my Cross Check. No flats in 2000 miles.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

The Kojak has a puncture protection belt. I've had one pinch flat and one ripped sidewall in 15 months - both on rocky singletrack, not exactly the intended use. No street punctures. 

The Kojak is an incredible tire for hybrid multi-use bikes. It would be a blast in bigger and wider sizes, but I think the market is way too small - because everyone who looks at them says: " those look dangerous without treads".

Using google, you can find posts by recumbent riders who have 3000+ punctureless miles on their Kojaks. I'm not sure why they aren't more popular on bikes that people have re-purposed for the street. The thought of a 29+ Kojak makes me smile. Silky fast with no road chatter.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

So has anyone tried a 2.5 inch minion or 2.4 inch ardent an a rabbit hole and rode it in the wet? Looking for options for oregon this winter


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

TooSteep said:


> The Kojak has a puncture protection belt. I've had one pinch flat and one ripped sidewall in 15 months - both on rocky singletrack, not exactly the intended use. No street punctures.
> 
> The Kojak is an incredible tire for hybrid multi-use bikes. It would be a blast in bigger and wider sizes, but I think the market is way too small - because everyone who looks at them says: " those look dangerous without treads".
> 
> Using google, you can find posts by recumbent riders who have 3000+ punctureless miles on their Kojaks. I'm not sure why they aren't more popular on bikes that people have re-purposed for the street. The thought of a 29+ Kojak makes me smile. Silky fast with no road chatter.


I am a big fan of the Kojak as well. I have the 700x35s on my road bike and love them, so comfy. I think the chances of seeing a 29+ version is beyond slim though, or any 29+ slick for that matter. Just get the Supermotos, 29er Hookworm or the above mentioned Geax Tatoo and mount them on 50mm rims, that should be pretty phat!


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2014)

TooSteep said:


> The Kojak is an incredible tire for hybrid multi-use bikes. It would be a blast in bigger and wider sizes...


It's not clear how differentiated a Kojak in larger sizes would be from a Big Apple. Both have puncture protection that the Super Moto lacks. Not sure how important that is in large, low pressure situations. I think the Big Apple has heavier sidewalls but that's expected for the size.

A Kojak is fast for a touring tire but not for a road tire and I don't see a 35mm smoothie as good for multi-surface use. I fail to see the purpose in a 3" wide smoothie other than style. Is the riding experience really going to be better than a Super Moto? It would look better for sure, but a Super Moto would look pretty big on 50mm rims.

For hard surfaces/road I'd prefer something faster. For looser surfaces I'd prefer something grippier and larger. The Kojak is good for covering distance on hard surfaces relatively problem-free and faster than any Marathon. I like the Kojak, too, but it has its place and that place isn't 29+.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

The geax tattoo comes in at 58mm wide x 52 mm high on the Velocity P-35 rims. It has a knurled casing with some inverse tread. Runs fast on the pave, does very well in the dirt except in the wet. It has a double ply casing and edge to edge tread. Beefy and great with lower pressure off road. I put it on my commutified Karate Monkey when I want to get 12 pave and 8 miles of dirt on the commute home.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

craigsj said:


> ... The Kojak is good for covering distance on hard surfaces relatively problem-free and faster than any Marathon. ....


Fast, problem-free and comfortable. Covering smooth roads, chip-seal, crushed gravel and hard dry dirt. Some combination of lighter, faster, more comfortable and more durable than the other options. Hmmm ... sounds to me like the realm of 29+


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Surly DW 29+ tire update - sort of. 

Dirt Wizard 29+ and My Yearly Rant About How We Ain?t Perfect | Blog | Surly Bikes

Mostly just an explanation why you won't see it for a good long time.

FWIW - I feel for Surly and their odd ball projects. It ain't easy to do something new and wacky. So thanks for trying. :thumbsup:


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

HAAAA, funny, I just went searching their site last night for info on the possible release of these. Oh well, quite sad really, I was looking forward to trying this for the front and maybe rear with the AZ terrain and aggressive riding. They can make all the excuses in the world, but 1.5-2 years to get a tire out from the time you announce it... well, that's pretty pathetic. Maybe it's the tire industry? I thinks Schwable, Maxxis and Vee have all announce tires over the years and took well after they said to get them to retailers. Who knows!

The good news, the Bontrager Chupacabra is scheduled for 12/15 and I've already pre ordered a few. Hopefully Maxxis has their $h!t together and can get the Chronicle to market before the end of the year. If those two work well, we won't need to worry about the elusive Surly Dirt Wizard.

I'm sure they are good guys, but maybe they should stop talking about products they don't even have yet, well, maybe the whole industry should; It gets old.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

vikb said:


> Surly DW 29+ tire update - sort of.
> 
> Dirt Wizard 29+ and My Yearly Rant About How We Ain?t Perfect | Blog | Surly Bikes
> 
> Mostly just an explanation why you won't see it for a good long time.





> _When we first talked about the tire, the plan was to use the same idea as we did for the DW 26+. Make it a 2.75" instead of a three and that way it would fit in folk's sus-forks. Then the more we talked about this, and looked at 3D models in our computers, and noticed that some other folks are coming out with some pretty wide tires that are only a few millimeters smaller than a 29x2.75" would be, and argued and argued and argued with each other. The decision was made to make it a 3" tire._


So, what are those pretty wide tires that are only a few mm smaller than a 29x2.75"?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Poor Surly inmate, all butt hurt because us customers bought into his hype about a new tire standard and got screwed for it. We're paying customers, we've waited 2 years, we couldn't escape from this bike without losing 70% of our cost. And the big Surly Wizard whines about us paying customers. What a freaking d-bag, someone should slap his well-filled thin skin.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

savo said:


> So, what are those pretty wide tires that are only a few mm smaller than a 29x2.75"?


+1 
I thought the whole idea behind the 2.75 size was that it might fit with a 29er suspension fork, at least that was my hope. My dreams are dashed. Where and what are these tires mentioned above? I want one.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Maxxis Minnion 2.5" is the widest 29er tire I'm aware of, runs about 67mm on a Rabbit Hole IIRC. I'd buy a set but I'm holding out for the Chronicle.


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## DoNotPay (Aug 13, 2014)

The lack of 3" tire selection is what has kept me from getting a Krampus, but it after reading this thread it looks like some will come to market soon.


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

That Surly blog post is so, so pathetic. It actually made me angry!


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Kind of funny how there are more tire choices on the close horizon for b+ than 29+ even though it is hardly even out yet, but it is out and gaining the momentum that 29+ seems to lack. New standards are a hard sell whereas ones that can adapt to current equipment seem to be more attractive to manufacturers and the consumers they serve. 

It is probably going to be mostly up to Surly to keep the 29+ ball rolling from now on with some side support from other fringe companies but if you haven't seen a major brand 29+ bike by now you probably won't. And tire options due to lack of industry support will be few I am afraid. 

Just one person's opinion. YMMV.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Not sure if the are a "major brand " but Niner does have the 29+ ROS9.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

And it appears that trek may bring one out by their announcement of the chupacabra 


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

After a year and a half off the bike, I bought a new Kona Big Kahuna from the Path. Within the 1st mile of the 3rd ride, I catastrophically blew out the rear tire (set up tubeless). Needless, to say, these Maxxis Tires are not the same quality product I was used to and I'm on the hunt for a decent 29er XC tire that doesn't weigh 900grams. Does it exist? Not interested in moon landing tires either.

Untitled by ewxlt, on Flickr


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

There are a number of 29+ tires on the horizon. How long they stick around remains to be seen, but there's plenty of hope for 29+.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Padre said:


> I'm on the hunt for a decent 29er XC tire that doesn't weigh 900grams. Does it exist? Not interested in moon landing tires either.


I think your in the wrong thread my friend, were talking about 3+ inch tires that we can land on the moon with.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Padre said:


> After a year and a half off the bike
> 
> Untitled by ewxlt, on Flickr


I would take it back to the Path and have them tell you what works better and then give you one, unless you are prepared to buy the 25 different tires that will be suggested to you on here. That is if you get your question posted in the right spot. And this probably isn't it.

Welcome back to the bike.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> I would take it back to the Path and have them tell you what works better and then give you one, unless you are prepared to buy the 25 different tires that will be suggested to you on here. That is if you get your question posted in the right spot. And this probably isn't it.
> 
> Welcome back to the bike.


Wasn't briefed on the "29+" delineation. I thought it meant "additional". Oh well. Interestingly, 0 tires were suggested. haha


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Padre said:


> Wasn't briefed on the "29+" delineation. I thought it meant "additional". Oh well. Interestingly, 0 tires were suggested. haha


8700+ post since 2004 and you haven't figured this Internet stuff out? Try reading a few posts to be sure you're in the right thread before you creep the thread off subject. You might learn something instead of waiting to be "briefed".


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Padre said:


> Wasn't briefed on the "29+" delineation. I thought it meant "additional". Oh well. Interestingly, 0 tires were suggested. haha


Welcome back! During your riding sabbatical a new "plus" sized breed of tires came out for mountain bikes. 29x3.0".

Looking at some of your post history you are a big dude and I would suggest a Maxxis Minion if you want a super burly ride everything hard tire. If you want to save weight, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4" should do well too.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Bigwheel said:


> Kind of funny how there are more tire choices on the close horizon for b+ than 29+ even though it is hardly even out yet, but it is out and gaining the momentum that 29+ seems to lack. New standards are a hard sell whereas ones that can adapt to current equipment seem to be more attractive to manufacturers and the consumers they serve.
> 
> It is probably going to be mostly up to Surly to keep the 29+ ball rolling from now on with some side support from other fringe companies but if you haven't seen a major brand 29+ bike by now you probably won't. And tire options due to lack of industry support will be few I am afraid.
> 
> Just one person's opinion. YMMV.


Back on topic. I think it's an exaggeration to say there are more B+tires on the horizon than 29+. There are certainly more 29+ tires announced than B+, and also more currently available. But you are right, B+ has had much more activity and interest in the first 6 months or so than 29+ did by quite a bit.

The only problem is that for any real B+ setup, it's also going to require a new frame. As we've seen from the Trailblazer, a full sized B+ tire is not going to fit in 95% of the existing 29er frames. It will be a good option for fat frames though.

I am surprised there haven't been more 29+ frames announced yet. I was really thinking Salsa would have had an aluminum 29+ at Interbike this year. And as mentioned, Trek seems to have something brewing.

But I guess it really is a niche segment, the biggies aren't throwing their money at it yet. They are still trying to get their ROI from their fatbikes!

Also, how long did it take for there to be more than a couple of fatbike tires? Many years if I recall.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

The fact that Bontrager is developing a 29x3 tire makes me think Trek is developing a matching bike.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> Welcome back! During your riding sabbatical a new "plus" sized breed of tires came out for mountain bikes. 29x3.0".
> 
> Looking at some of your post history you are a big dude and I would suggest a Maxxis Minion if you want a super burly ride everything hard tire. If you want to save weight, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4" should do well too.


Thanks GSJ. I knew about the segment, but didn't pick up on it in this thread in spite of Pursuiter's admonishment. It was a Maxxis Ikon that blew up so I'm kinda shying away from the m but I'm going to give those a look! Thank you!


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

"The only problem is that for any real B+ setup, it's also going to require a new frame."

I guess I have a problem with this statement because that is exactly what was trying to be avoided with the Trailblazer and it has shown that it is at least going to work on a lot of current frames with some rim width fiddling. It has also gotten some decent reviews by people that have actually ridden them.

It is the Interwebs that has decided that there needs to be bigger tires that will require a new frame to be a "real b+ setup". If you have the money to throw down that hole I say go for it.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

A) There was a ton of excitement around 29+ when word of the Krampus leaked. More, it seems to me, than for 27.5+ because, for now, there's only a few tires announced and not a true platform to affix them to. Only a few of us get really excited about tires….at least outside the true fat bike riders.

B) The Trailblazer may end up being the one and only "+" tire made that can retrofit into the back of 29 inch frames. Sure, it may be great for certain riders in certain situations, but it is still only one tire. I guess we'll see if other tires will come out that will fit the rear of a 29er, but I wouldn't expect many of them. We'll see though.

C) If anything puts the 29+ segment out of business, which isn't likely to happen any time soon, it will likely, imho, be a dedicated 27.5+ bike.

d) The trend in the industry is towards wider tires and rims. Hopefully, we'll quit arguing about what is or isn't + sized and just start talking about tire sizes. It's funner to argue about tire measurements than it is to argue over what meets some "standard" anyways.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2014)

Bigwheel said:


> ...that is exactly what was trying to be avoided with the Trailblazer and it has shown that it is at least going to work on a lot of current frames with some rim width fiddling...


It has also shown itself to be 27.9" in diameter, not nearly as large a 29er wheel. That's what you get when you rebrand an existing 27.5 casing as a "+" format.

You can fit a lot of wheels and tires into a 29er frame. That doesn't mean you want to.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2014)

Slow Danger said:


> B) The Trailblazer may end up being the one and only "+" tire made that can retrofit into the back of 29 inch frames.


I disagree. There are several tires the same size as the Trailblazer, including another in WTB's own lineup. The Trailblazer is just the only one branded a "+".

Interestingly I noticed recently that while WTB advertises the tire as a "2.8", in the small print it is rated as 67mm casing width. In other words, they acknowledge that it's a 2.6" tire even on a 50mm rim. It's printed on the sidewall and listed as such on their website.

Their Breakout 2.5 is rated at 64mm on a conventional rim. In other words, it's the same casing size and a bigger tire overall. It's just not a "+". :lol:


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Bigwheel said:


> "The only problem is that for any real B+ setup, it's also going to require a new frame."
> 
> I guess I have a problem with this statement because that is exactly what was trying to be avoided with the Trailblazer and it has shown that it is at least going to work on a lot of current frames with some rim width fiddling. It has also gotten some decent reviews by people that have actually ridden them.
> 
> It is the Interwebs that has decided that there needs to be bigger tires that will require a new frame to be a "real b+ setup". If you have the money to throw down that hole I say go for it.





Slow Danger said:


> A) There was a ton of excitement around 29+ when word of the Krampus leaked. More, it seems to me, than for 27.5+ because, for now, there's only a few tires announced and not a true platform to affix them to. Only a few of us get really excited about tires&#8230;.at least outside the true fat bike riders.
> 
> B) The Trailblazer may end up being the one and only "+" tire made that can retrofit into the back of 29 inch frames. Sure, it may be great for certain riders in certain situations, but it is still only one tire. I guess we'll see if other tires will come out that will fit the rear of a 29er, but I wouldn't expect many of them. We'll see though.
> 
> C) If anything puts the 29+ segment out of business, which isn't likely to happen any time soon, it will likely, imho, be a dedicated 27.5+ bike.


No thanks to 27.5+ way to happy with 29+ to go down in size - I would just like to try a 'knobbier' tire and see how they work in the wetter months. This complaint is minor as the knards work great for 90% of the riding I do. Really am leaning towards a minion 2.5 as it sounds like they are pretty big on a 50 mm rim, IF nothing else shows up soon.

And I thought this thread was about 29+ tire choices

"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

not trying to derail anymore than what has already been done, but in response to clyde1, i love me some minions on my dually's


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Excellent off to find the best deal on minions


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

My Minions on Flows measure 2.6 at widest tread. I run them at 17-18 psi front 20-21 rear. Im about 195 geared up. traction is amazing ,cushion and dampening awsome, NO BURPS! Ever! There as close to indestructable as you could get.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Great to see some nice 29+ tire options coming out. I own a custom Ti 29er hardtail (run rigid) built with as much rear clearance as practical- She's been waiting for these tire sizes for 7 years! 

In my case really don't think a smaller rim diameter is needed (slider drop-outs and half-links are your friends), just good, light-ish tires in 2.5-2.8. Running 2.4 Contis on P35s tubeless (22/18 PSI @ 200lbs, no issues) I have demoed fat bikes against my 29er. Overall I'd take the 29er ever time on dry dirt. On snow that equation is pretty even depending on conditions. Don't ride sand. Threw a leg over a Krampus once: a P-I-G compared to my 20-ish lb. rigid SS. No thanks. Thought the Knards were mediocre too.

With all the sweet wide carbon rims/wheels coming out, looks like I better start saving!

PS: Me thinks a certain regular contributor here may be a wee bit jealous of other guys who get the goodies. Waaah!:cryin:


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## stuartm (Feb 22, 2014)

I've just taken delivery of my new custom made titanium 29+ frame and currently have it built up with regular size tyres on 35mm Velocity rims. I'm hoping to get some reasonably light 3" tyres that are equally at home on the trails as they are touring on gravel roads. Based on the info in this thread the Trax Fatties are looking like the best option for me but keen to hear more you all about your experiences.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Touring gravel roads with any 3" tire is going to be very energy sapping.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

SVO said:


> Touring gravel roads with any 3" tire is going to be very energy sapping.


Nope. I've gone from a 29er with 2.4" tire to a 29er with 3" tires....both of which were used for bikepacking with lots of dirt/gravel forest road riding. My daily distances on both were the same. I don't monitor my ride speed, but I didn't feel particularly tired or have to ride any longer than normal on the Krampus.

I think the 29+ Knards in 120 tpi are a pretty fast rolling tire, but my previous 29er tires were 2.4" Racing Ralphs which are quick as well.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I got home from vacation to find not one, not two, but three different sets of prototype 29+ tires sitting on my doorstep.

Of these, the 3" Dirt Wizards blew my skirt up fastest. They make me think of riding the way this guy drives.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

vikb said:


> Nope. I've gone from a 29er with 2.4" tire to a 29er with 3" tires....both of which were used for bikepacking with lots of dirt/gravel forest road riding. My daily distances on both were the same. I don't monitor my ride speed, but I didn't feel particularly tired or have to ride any longer than normal on the Krampus.
> 
> I think the 29+ Knards in 120 tpi are a pretty fast rolling tire, but my previous 29er tires were 2.4" Racing Ralphs which are quick as well.


I have zero experience touring on a Krampus. But I do have 30k miles paved/dirt/gravel touring experience (road, not trail bikepacking) on a bunch of different bike set-ups. My experience and the laws of physics would disagree. Guess I'll wait for the RAAM or Divide Race guys to run Knards.

And I wish I were Mikesee, bad


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

SVO said:


> I have zero experience touring on a Krampus. But I do have 30k miles paved/dirt/gravel touring experience (road, not trail bikepacking) on a bunch of different bike set-ups. My experience and the laws of physics would disagree. Guess I'll wait for the RAAM or Divide Race guys to run Knards.


Knards have been raced on the Tour Divide.

I don't race so my comments are about touring as you mentioned in your post above.

I'm comparing a 29er lightly treaded tire to a 29+ lightly treaded tire.

Last time I checked RAAM was a paved road event and nobody was running mountain bike tires. They probably won't run Knards. 

However even on the road wider supple tires are faster than skinny tires at a touring/endurance pace due to reduced rolling resistance.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

mikesee said:


> I got home from vacation to find not one, not two, but three different sets of prototype 29+ tires sitting on my doorstep.
> 
> Of these, the 3" Dirt Wizards blew my skirt up fastest. They make me think of riding the way this guy drives.


I'm really hoping they will fit in a Fox 34...


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

vikb said:


> Knards have been raced on the Tour Divide.
> 
> I don't race so my comments are about touring as you mentioned in your post above.
> 
> ...


Did you see I was responding to a question about gravel road use? The RAAM comment was a joke

How many riders used Knards on the Divide and how'd they do generally? I was unaware.

AFAIK, larger tires at the same pressure have lower rolling resistance. But you don't/can't run a 2.0 and a 3.0 at the same pressure.

The larger question is what is the most efficient tire volume for a given use/surface. Setting aside wind resistance and moment of inertia considerations (weight at wheel perimeter), efficiency becomes largely a balance of the tires ability to conform over surface irregularities (and thus allow the bike/rider to not bounce/jump/waste energy vertically) and low rolling resistance. That's why you get 200 PSI/0.7" on a polished velodrome floor, 140 PSI/1" on smooth pavement, 2"/40 PSI on dirt roads, etc.

The 29+ volume advantage to float right over 1-1.5" trail obstacles is lost on a typical gravel/dirt road while the disadvantage of it's poor 15 PSI rolling resistance remains. A Raven at 2.0"/ 30 PSI can float over 1/2-3/4" gravel irregularities nearly as well as the 29+ but it will present lower rolling resistance at double the pressure. Run the Knard at 30 PSI and even if it does not get too hard the large weight penalty remains.

The Schwalbe study on this is widely mistaken: "Higher pressure was only faster on the road... Explanation: A tire at low inflation pressure adapts better to uneven surfaces." The corollary: Lower pressure was only faster off-road. A tire at high inflation presents lower rolling resistance on more even surfaces.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, if Mikesee found three new prototype tires on his door step, and one was the Surly DW, could one of the others have been this:

Product Spotlight - Bontrager Chupacabra 29×3.0 | FAT-BIKE.COM

If so, that leaves one new tire to identify. Mikesee already has Chronicles in his possession so that's out. I doubt the other tire is the Trax Fatty, but could be. That's at least 5 29+ tires. Sounds like rumors of the death of 29+ are a bit premature.


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## ECR (Sep 25, 2013)

SVO said:


> AFAIK, larger tires at the same pressure have lower rolling resistance. But you don't/can't run a 2.0 and a 3.0 at the same pressure.


According to studies I have read, larger tires do not need as much pressure as smaller tires to have a lower rolling resistance on the road...

"According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is *minimizing the energy lost to casing deformation*, not minimizing how much tread is in contact with the ground. All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall."
Bicycle tires - puncturing the myths - BikeRadar

...but aerodynamics is also a factor and I have experienced instances where strong gusts of wind hitting 5" tires has nearly blown me of the road.

I have read a couple studies demonstrating the lower rolling resistance of wider tires, but I had never seen anything regarding the rolling resistance of larger diameter wheels...

"Larger diameter wheels roll faster than smaller ones: Yep, it's now been confirmed in the lab - 29er mountain bikes roll faster than 26ers. Wheel Energy say the effect here is similar to that of tire width, in that larger-diameter tires exhibit *less casing deflection and thus less energy loss*."
Bicycle tires - puncturing the myths - BikeRadar


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I got home from vacation to find not one, not two, but three different sets of prototype 29+ tires sitting on my doorstep.


Have we already heard of all three (i.e. Bontrager, Vee)? Anything new and unknown?


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## Mauri (Mar 17, 2010)

Maxxis? Or is it past proto phase? I saw some proto models on local shop in august, but that's long time ago.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Mike has already ridden and commented on the Maxxis Chronicle, so that's not one of them. The Trax Fatty is already for sale, so that's not prototype anymore.

My guess is Surly DW, Bontrager Chupacabra, and Panaracer Fat B Nimble, all of which have been announced/shown at Interbike.

Of course, it could be some top secret tire that has not been announced yet.

Mike: How about sending me a set, there's no way you test that many tires!


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

bikeny said:


> Mike: How about sending me a set, there's no way you test that many tires!


Just wait for the thread introducing MC's new custom Eriksen 29+ tricycle...


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## stuartm (Feb 22, 2014)

SVO said:


> Touring gravel roads with any 3" tire is going to be very energy sapping.


Yeah, maybe - but I need one set of tyres to ride multiple terrains so there's going to be some compromise either way. I'm hoping a 29+ setup with rigid fork will provide enough cushioning on the trails and bearable resistance on gravel.

Also, Fat-bike.com have some new information on the Bontrager Chupacabra - looks similar to the Knards with a lot less weight. Product Spotlight - Bontrager Chupacabra 29×3.0 | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

stuartm said:


> Yeah, maybe - but I need one set of tyres to ride multiple terrains so there's going to be some compromise either way. I'm hoping a 29+ setup with rigid fork will provide enough cushioning on the trails and bearable resistance on gravel.
> 
> Also, Fat-bike.com have some new information on the Bontrager Chupacabra - looks similar to the Knards with a lot less weight. Product Spotlight - Bontrager Chupacabra 29×3.0 | FAT-BIKE.COM


There are plenty of people touring and bikepacking with big tires, both 29+ and 26" fatties. Personally, I think 29+ is perfect for what you are describing. No, they won't be as fast as a 2.0 tire or even a cyclocross tire, but they will be a hell of a lot more comfortable! The rougher the road, the happier you'll be. I think the Trax Fatty will be perfect. I am actually building up something similar for bikepacking a variety of terrain. It will have 40mm rims and Trax Fatty tires. If you have a bunch of time to waste, read up:

While Out Riding | Dirt road cycling adventures across the Americas

Bike Grease and Coffee

Bikepacking Routes, Bike Touring Stories - Pedaling Nowhere

Off Route

That should keep you busy for a while!


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Personally, I think 29+ is perfect for what you are describing. No, they won't be as fast as a 2.0 tire or even a cyclocross tire, but they will be a hell of a lot more comfortable! The rougher the road, the happier you'll be.


Of course, that's why cars, especially off-road ones, have eliminated suspensions and gone with great big balloon tires instead. The rougher the road, the happier you'll be! Tell that to drivers on African safaris.

Replacing suspension where it's best suited for large tires is a fool's errand. Massive tires are heavy, have poor travel, poor damping, and poor tunability. They also penalize rolling resistance which is terrible for human powered vehicles. A bicycle is the sum of all its parts, each part designed for its share of the task. Tires should not be providing suspension where suspension is truly needed.

When serious riders apply brain power to the problem they come up with the Tout Terrain Panamericana, not Trax Fattys on 40mm rims.

I find it amusing that people justify 3" tires now for what riders 50-60 years ago did better than any of us can on road bikes. Everyday families used to bicycle tour in Europe on war-torn roads for recreation. They didn't need 3" tires on wide carbon rims to get them over stretches of gravel. Apparently people here do.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

craigsj said:


> Of course, that's why cars, especially off-road ones, have eliminated suspensions and gone with great big balloon tires instead. The rougher the road, the happier you'll be! Tell that to drivers on African safaris.
> 
> Replacing suspension where it's best suited for large tires is a fool's errand. Massive tires are heavy, have poor travel, poor damping, and poor tunability. They also penalize rolling resistance which is terrible for human powered vehicles. A bicycle is the sum of all its parts, each part designed for its share of the task. Tires should not be providing suspension where suspension is truly needed.
> 
> ...


What the hell are you even talking about??? First you say we should use suspension, and then you say it can be done better on a skinny tire road bike? Make up your mind!

No one said anything about 3" tires being better than suspension. Stuartm asked about a bike/tire that can handle trail riding as well as dirt road touring.

I'd like to see someone ride that Tout Terrain Panamerica on real trails, that would be funny! I also wouldn't choose it for any touring period, not matter what the surface. Way to much stuff going on there. I don't know about you, but I would choose a rigid frame and fork and wide rims and tires. KISS


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

this thread is going way off topic but only a non-cyclist tourer who doesn't understand bikes would buy that Tout Terrain bike. What a mess!

IMO ...the best thing for extended dirt touring is a rigid steel bike with fat tires. The size choice would depend on the conditions. For serious off-road a fatbike or 29+ seems like the logical choice. Maybe front suspension if it's really rocky. Touring on only gravel roads ( like Oregon Outback) would dictate something a little smaller,maybe 2" wide with smaller knobs.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

bikeny said:


> What the hell are you even talking about??? First you say we should use suspension, and then you say it can be done better on a skinny tire road bike? Make up your mind!


No I didn't but it doesn't surprise me that you would come back with that.

I said that big tires are not a substitute for suspension and that terrain that need suspension doesn't need 3" tires either. Gravel roads do not require fat tires and if I were building a bike optimized for that purpose I would not put oversized, heavy slow-rolling tires on it. If I needed comfort I'd build it into the frame.



bikeny said:


> No one said anything about 3" tires being better than suspension. Stuartm asked about a bike/tire that can handle trail riding as well as dirt road touring.


You said "The rougher the road, the happier you'll be." which is stupid as the rougher the road, the more valuable suspension is. With regards to dirt road touring, a 3" tire will roll poorly as SVO pointed out. If such a large tire were justified then a more more modest tire with suspension would work better.



bikeny said:


> I'd like to see someone ride that Tout Terrain Panamerica on real trails, that would be funny!


It's not a trail bike, it's a rough surface touring bike. It's a serious bike, not a poser's bike like you seem to prefer.



bikeny said:


> I also wouldn't choose it for any touring period, not matter what the surface. Way to much stuff going on there. I don't know about you, but I would choose a rigid frame and fork and wide rims and tires. KISS


Of course, but then again you think that seat tube angle affects handling.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

senor_mikey said:


> this thread is going way off topic but only a non-cyclist tourer who doesn't understand bikes would buy that Tout Terrain bike. What a mess!


And here's another poster who doesn't know what he's talking about. Tout Terrain isn't some unknown brand, just unknown to the uneducated.


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## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

craigsj said:


> And here's another poster who doesn't know what he's talking about. Tout Terrain isn't some unknown brand, just unknown to the uneducated.


In your case, I think TT stands not for Tout Terrain but Totalement Troll.

And if Señor Mikey doesn't like the TT, it's hardly due to a lack of edumacation. They ride like over engineered German poop.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

craigsj said:


> And here's another poster who doesn't know what he's talking about. Tout Terrain isn't some unknown brand, just unknown to the uneducated.


Wrong again... the story of your life. I'm very familiar with Tout Terrain bikes. They make very durable touring bikes that are used all over the world. The Silkroad is a great bike for international tours.

I think that the dual suspension models are aimed at people who think full suspension will make their ride easier. All it does is add more complexity to the bike with little payback. Rigid bikes are simpler, more durable, are more efficient to ride and have a lot less to go wrong for extended touring.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

senor_mikey said:


> I think that the dual suspension models are aimed at people who think full suspension will make their ride easier. All it does is add more complexity to the bike with little payback. Rigid bikes are simpler, more durable, are more efficient to ride and have a lot less to go wrong for extended touring.


Rigid bikes have less to go wrong, that much is true. More efficient to ride not necessarily. You know, fixed gear and solid tires are simpler and more durable too. Does that make them better for touring as well?

Of course, what you said was:

"...but only a non-cyclist tourer who doesn't understand bikes would buy that Tout Terrain bike."​
That's a far cry from you're saying now. I doubt there's a single "non-cyclist tourer" anywhere in the world that would even know of Tout Terrain, much less buy one. You may not personally believe in that particular model, but that's hardly justification for your absurd comment.

It's par for the course at MTBR, of course.

A simple search produces reviews of the Panamericana from cyclists that have logged a few miles and disagree with your opinion.


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## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

senor_mikey said:


> Wrong again... the story of your life. I'm very familiar with Tout Terrain bikes. They make very durable touring bikes that are used all over the world. The Silkroad is a great bike for international tours.
> 
> I think that the dual suspension models are aimed at people who think full suspension will make their ride easier. All it does is add more complexity to the bike with little payback. Rigid bikes are simpler, more durable, are more efficient to ride and have a lot less to go wrong for extended touring.


Will have to agree to disagree on this. Full-Sus has its place for bikepacking things like the CDT, AZT, etc. But I'd never take that full-sus TT anywhere.

As for the Silk Road, I think ScheißeStraße might be a better name. That's just me though--plenty of people have put in some epic miles on them.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

I would agree that full suspension bikes have a place on certain bikepacking routes, just not the Tout Terrain Panamericana that was referenced above. That bike is an abomination regardless of what reviewers have said.


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## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

senor_mikey said:


> I would agree that full suspension bikes have a place on certain bikepacking routes, just not the Tout Terrain Panamericana that was referenced above. That bike is an abomination regardless of what reviewers have said.


Just looking at it makes me vomit in my mouth a bit.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

What is par for the course on MTBR CSJ is people like yourself that obviously get off on getting peoples hackles up. You are just one of many that has graced these forums over the years and not even all that good at it, top 20 at best.


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## skylerd (Oct 13, 2013)

I wanna know which tires MikeC has! I've only got info on a few of them, and from the comfort of my chair, I agree that the Dirt Wizard sounds like the ultimate bikepacking tire.

And, just to feed the troll: 

Since when is it all about efficiency? Fat tires are all about fun, and broadening ones potential for fun.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

craigsj said:


> When serious riders apply brain power to the problem they come up with the Tout Terrain Panamericana, not Trax Fattys on 40mm rims.


Which of course explains why the TT Pana is such a big success story in the touring/bikepacking world. 

I've toured on dirt with just about every wheel/tire size and suspension combo and settled on a 29+ hardtail as my bikepacking rig for where I live - BC Canada.

I've toured with folks on a variety of different bikes 26er, 29er, 29+, fatbikes....rigid/hardtail/FS. The 29+ bikes hold their own just fine even rigid vs. FS bikes.

I've gone back and ridden the same trails on my carbon 27.5 FS bike vs. my rigid 29+ and was shocked by how good the 29+ was by comparison. I expected the FS bike to blow me away, but it didn't on those trails - medium tech rocky/rooty.

I'm not married to any wheelsize/tire width. I keep trying different things and selling what doesn't work. I've spent a lot of $$ on tires that didn't last 10 rides, but at least getting to test them back to back with other options let me know what I really liked.

The results have frequently not been what I expected based on an armchair internet evaluation.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Cmon craigsj - you already derailed this thread with a troll-fest about B+ tires, now we are debating suspension vs not for touring? Please just start new threads to argue/troll about other topics. Believe it or not, most of us subscribed to this thread are interested in "29+ tire choices" (go figure!).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AOK said:


> Cmon craigsj - you already derailed this thread with a troll-fest about B+ tires, now we are debating suspension vs not for touring? Please just start new threads to argue/troll about other topics. Believe it or not, most of us subscribed to this thread are interested in "29+ tire choices" (go figure!).


Good point. I have started a thread for the FS vs. 29+ discussion:

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/fs-ultimate-dirt-touring-solution-937189.html


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

Must be cuz it's halloween that the weirdos come out on mtbr to play. 1st turbodog now this guy.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

vikb said:


> Which of course explains why the TT Pana is such a big success story in the touring/bikepacking world.
> 
> I've toured on dirt with just about every wheel/tire size and suspension combo and settled on a 29+ hardtail as my bikepacking rig for where I live - BC Canada.
> 
> ...


Pardon me for considering your, and other's, comments here to be more "armchair internet evaluation". Works both ways.

It's funny how people attack the Tout Terrain bike as though that somehow defeats the notion that suspension is valuable. I'm not invested in that bike in any way, I simply offered it as an interesting counterpoint to the anti-suspension, fat tire drivel constantly spewed here by "armchair cyclists" and those who run blogs intending to profit from them.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

AOK said:


> Cmon craigsj - you already derailed this thread with a troll-fest about B+ tires, now we are debating suspension vs not for touring? Please just start new threads to argue/troll about other topics. Believe it or not, most of us subscribed to this thread are interested in "29+ tire choices" (go figure!).


And yet you don't complain about the comment I replied to which was already off-topic. The whiners are very selective.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

Bigwheel said:


> What is par for the course on MTBR CSJ is people like yourself that obviously get off on getting peoples hackles up. You are just one of many that has graced these forums over the years and not even all that good at it, top 20 at best.


Says the poster who literally bragged about being a troll in another thread.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

craigsj said:


> Says the poster who literally bragged about being a troll in another thread.


That is fabulous really helps me out with available 29+ tire choices!

"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

craigsj said:


> And yet you don't complain about the comment I replied to which was already off-topic. The whiners are very selective.


Correct - I was really just complaining about you and the fact that you repeatedly troll threads looking for an argument.


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## noish (Sep 19, 2009)

*Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29-*

I bought a pair of Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29+ tires. Labeled as 29x3.0. They are more like 29x2.5. Here are some pics.







Obviously not 3" inches. Mounted on a 35mm hookless rim.







Compared to a Knard on an identical rim. Knard measure 3" in width.







Compared to a 2.4" Maxxis High Roller on a 650 35mm hookless rim.

These are going to get returned. For $120/tire, I can buy a pretty nice pair of real 29x2.5's. No sense in spending extra cash on a "29+" tire to have it measure the same width as a tire that costs half its price.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

I see that Gravity, of Bike's Direct fame, is also putting out a 29+ tire. It's on the BD Facebook page.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2014)

noish said:


> I bought a pair of Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29+ tires. Labeled as 29x3.0. They are more like 29x2.5.


Here is my sample.

Mounted on a Dually 39mm internal rim it measures 74mm wide. It is 185mm b2b, same as the Knard. They are the same size.

I've shown it next to a Renegade 2.3 on a 43mm internal width rim. The Renegade has a large casing measuring 64.5mm wide here. The Trax is clearly larger.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Noish, that is odd as yours looks much smaller than the 74mm that craigsj posted.


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## noish (Sep 19, 2009)

Maybe poor quality control? I don't know why it's so much narrower than the knard. They are both mounted on the same rim in the picture above.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

noish, can you possibly measure the unmounted bead-to-bead size of your tire?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Traxx Fatty mounted and ridden today. Set up tubeless on a P35 like butter. Initial size at 30psi was 69.4mm. Rode at 12 PSI (likely close to where I'll settle), 67.8mm. I'm 200 lbs and ride rigid SS. Post initial stretching i'll guess it will be 69-70mm on the 35mm rim. Impressions (front only): Tread pattern seems derivative of Crossmark (not necessarily a bad thing). Good sidewall balance between toughness/weight/supple. Size is a big notch above a 2.4 nominal. Tire likes speed- very stable. Great braking traction. Surprising early break-out in loose corners- does not match Conti X-King 2.4 in that, although looking at the 2 tread designs you'd expect the opposite result. Bet it will pack-up with snow/mud too easily. Seems like it would be a good rear in the dry, and I'd try reversing direction in back if it fit there (close, not quite). Paid $90 delivered. 

Also, whiners take note that there is a long tradition of creative tire sizing in the MTB industry- the Traxx is as "honest" as most. On a 50mm rim, after it stretches out, it will be very close to 3".


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## Mr.Snakebite (Aug 13, 2013)

mikesee said:


> I got home from vacation to find not one, not two, but three different sets of prototype 29+ tires sitting on my doorstep.
> 
> Of these, the 3" Dirt Wizards blew my skirt up fastest. They make me think of riding the way this guy drives.


any more info about how they ride, Mike?


----------



## noish (Sep 19, 2009)

If you are looking for a 29+ tire, be aware that these are significantly narrower than the knard. If anyone else wants to make a constructive comparison, you are welcome to. In the pics above, I compare it to the knard and a high roller II, all on the same width 35mm hookless rims, and you can tell what the result is. If you are looking for a 29+ tire and want a narrower option, I'm sure it performs remarkably well.


----------



## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

This may be a stupid question, but why does everybody seem to want to compare these tires on narrow rims? Isn't 50% of the rationale behind the krampus to have big fat tires on big fat rims, so the big fat tires don't deflect and roll off the rim? Why would you go to a 30mm rim and lose all the sidewall support?


----------



## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Maybe I missed it on the
Thread but it appears that the chronicles are in stock now


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

clydeone said:


> Maybe I missed it on the
> Thread but it appears that the chronicles are in stock now


That's news to me, where did you see them?


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

All over the UK stores as we speak. 

They have been arriving to folk last week on their pre-orders

Seems like it's the EXO's version everyone's gone for and these are selling out fast

Plenty of the non-exo left (5 g's heavier)


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bonesetter2004 said:


> All over the UK stores as we speak.
> 
> They have been arriving to folk last week on their pre-orders
> 
> ...


Great to hear. I'm looking forward to getting a set on my Krampus. :thumbsup:


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Chronicle | Maxxis USA

I didn't see any sign of the tubeless ready version, I hope we can find them soon in the USA.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Chronicle | Maxxis USA
> 
> I didn't see any sign of the tubeless ready version, I hope we can find them soon in the USA.


If anyone with a production set of these tires can measure them with calipers on whatever rims you have it would be interesting to see the actual width.


----------



## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

bikeny said:


> That's news to me, where did you see them?


Aebike.com so I assume they are available at all qbp places

"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

clydeone said:


> Aebike.com so I assume they are available at all qbp places


Aebike says out of stock on both models, as does every other shop that lists them.

Confused!


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

clydeone said:


> Aebike.com so I assume they are available at all qbp


Aebike only has the 60tpi and the 120tpi listed, not the 120tpi tubeless ready, both out of stock. Did they ever have them in stock?


----------



## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Dirt Wizard Review...they exist somewhere...
Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ Review - Pedaling Nowhere


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

sandwich said:


> This may be a stupid question, but why does everybody seem to want to compare these tires on narrow rims? Isn't 50% of the rationale behind the krampus to have big fat tires on big fat rims, so the big fat tires don't deflect and roll off the rim? Why would you go to a 30mm rim and lose all the sidewall support?


Hit the nail on the head! Seems like some guys want to try 29+ without buying a 29+ wheelset. Poor outcomes are expected. I think 29+ will migrate to look more like moto soft surface tire/rim where the rim is nearly as wide as the casing, but smaller knobs, obv. Especially as light/wide rims progress.


----------



## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Aebike says out of stock on both models, as does every other shop that lists them.
> 
> Confused!


It could be that I have lost my mind but I thought the 60 tpi was in stock. I am only interested in the dirt wizard and will likely go 2.5 minion at this point as a 'winter' tire here in the PNW

"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


----------



## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

SVO said:


> Hit the nail on the head! Seems like some guys want to try 29+ without buying a 29+ wheelset. Poor outcomes are expected. I think 29+ will migrate to look more like moto soft surface tire/rim *where the rim is nearly as wide as the casing*, but smaller knobs, obv. Especially as light/wide rims progress.


:thumbsup:

In fact I see not only + going in that direction and fat bikes are already pretty much there. Rims have been too narrow for years across the board for mtb.


----------



## Mauri (Mar 17, 2010)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> Dirt Wizard Review...they exist somewhere...
> Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ Review - Pedaling Nowhere


Nice find. What I understood from that article DW has smaller volume than the Knards. That's something I was afraid of when they first "released" the Dirt Wizards as 2.75". If that is the case it kinda makes the whole 29+ -consept pointless.

Seems like I should have kept my moonlander for wet and muddy season and kept krampus as a pure dry sunday driving. Krampus is more fun, but lack of tire choices (with decent knob sizes) is really starting to make me feel if I made the wrong choice.


----------



## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Mauri said:


> Nice find. What I understood from that article DW has smaller volume than the Knards. That's something I was afraid of when they first "released" the Dirt Wizards as 2.75". If that is the case it kinda makes the whole 29+ -consept pointless.
> 
> Seems like I should have kept my moonlander for wet and muddy season and kept krampus as a pure dry sunday driving. Krampus is more fun, but lack of tire choices (with decent knob sizes) is really starting to make me feel if I made the wrong choice.


I figure that Surly had to reduce the casing a bit so that the bigger knobs would fit in most frames and forks, as it is, the high-volume Knard barely fits in a lot of 29+ frames and forks, and a DW with the same casing and bigger knobs would not fit. In any case, according to the comments, the difference in casing size is only a few mm, and knob diameter is the same

"[DWs] are slightly smaller in volume. The casing width of the DW is 67mm vs about 70mm for the Knard. The tread width is the same for both ~74mm. The height from rim edge to casing top differs slightly: 56mm for the DW and 60mm for the Knard."


----------



## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Mauri said:


> Nice find. What I understood from that article DW has smaller volume than the Knards. That's something I was afraid of when they first "released" the Dirt Wizards as 2.75". If that is the case it kinda makes the whole 29+ -consept pointless.


I respectfully disagree, what would be pointless would be to produce a 29+ Dirt Wizard that doesn't fit in any 29+ frames. If you want bigger knobs and you still want the tire to fit your frame, you HAVE TO shrink the casing.

I'm really hoping the DW will fit in a Fox 32 so I find this news promising.


----------



## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

I think the DW will likely please people coming from standard 29er sized tires, and displease people who come from a fatbike perspective. In either case, I don't think it matters since there are going to be at least 3 alternatives in the near future (Bonty, Maxxis, Vee) and I am sure there will be more coming in the next year. I'm still debating on which frame to buy, so I am not so worried about tire options at the moment.


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

The smaller casing is old news on the Surly DW, now it will not be the same width as the 26" version (it's on the Surly blog and linked in this thread somewhere). That's why it's in delay, the Surly Wizards had a big fight about the smaller 26" casing and re-designed the 29+ tyre, adding 9 months delay (and counting). 

I'm not planning on ever purchasing another Surly rim or tire. I've bought 7 Surly fat bike rims, all of them had hops at the welded seam. I've bought 12 Surly fat bike tires (including a pair of studded 45N), most of them had wandering beads that made the tires have varying sizes of hops. My Bud and Lou were the most expensive and worst examples. When a bike tyre costs as much as a Michelin car tyre it should be true. 

My LBS is watching the QBP website for TR Chronicles, I'm holding out for Maxxis quality.


----------



## Mr.Snakebite (Aug 13, 2013)

for EU residents who want the 'standard' Maxxis Chronicle 
Maxxis Chronicle 29 29x3 Tyre
I saw they are for sale (and in stock) online in the UK.
Spoke to the local (Dutch) Maxxis rep today, they are on their way.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

they are defo here (in the UK). i got mine from the ever-awesome tim at sideways cycles, Sideways Cycles :: Home

look, feel and smell nice. dont feel too lardy. they are not a DHF but the knobs are more, well, _more_ than a knard&#8230;.compound seems similar to other maxxis.

ill get em mounted up and report back&#8230;.

as for the DW, i see it as a front tyre mostly&#8230;.bring the noise&#8230;.


----------



## Mauri (Mar 17, 2010)

jnroyal said:


> I respectfully disagree, what would be pointless would be to produce a 29+ Dirt Wizard that doesn't fit in any 29+ frames. If you want bigger knobs and you still want the tire to fit your frame, you HAVE TO shrink the casing.
> 
> I'm really hoping the DW will fit in a Fox 32 so I find this news promising.


I agree with this. However (if I remember right) there is plenty room in the front for bigger knobs. At the back it will be a tight fit, but you get a bit more room by moving the rear wheel backwards in horizontal dropouts. I might be wrong, but I once was checking that when I was thinking about this exact thing.

IF DW would fit with same size carcass than Knard just by moving the rear tyre backwards in the dropouts it would be fine. But as it already has been stated, it's a tradeoff between air volume and knob sizes, and I agree with this. However, it's only few millimeters so it might not even matter.


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Come on Maxxis USA, help a brother out!


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mauri said:


> I agree with this. However (if I remember right) there is plenty room in the front for bigger knobs. At the back it will be a tight fit, but you get a bit more room by moving the rear wheel backwards in horizontal dropouts. I might be wrong, but I once was checking that when I was thinking about this exact thing.
> 
> IF DW would fit with same size carcass than Knard just by moving the rear tyre backwards in the dropouts it would be fine. But as it already has been stated, it's a tradeoff between air volume and knob sizes, and I agree with this. However, it's only few millimeters so it might not even matter.


Just speaking for the Krampus:

- The rear is very tight side to side with Knards on RHs. Stock it's just enough for some wobble from a less than perfect tire and rim. The CS are parallel where the knobs are so moving the wheel front to back doesn't do anything for clearance.

- The stock fork has room for bigger rubber no problem.

When Surly first announced a 2.75" 29+ DW I assumed it was going to be that size to allow it to fit in the rear of a Krampus with more aggressive knobs. If it's the same casing as the Knard, but with proper knobs it will be interesting to see if it works on Surly's own 29+ frames.

It seems odd they'd make something that wouldn't, butI don't see how it would fit.

Time will tell.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> Just speaking for the Krampus:
> 
> - The rear is very tight side to side with Knards on RHs. Stock it's just enough for some wobble from a less than perfect tire and rim. The CS are parallel where the knobs are so moving the wheel front to back doesn't do anything for clearance.
> 
> ...


Go to the bottom of the review in the comments section, he gives some measurements. Basically knob width is the same, casing is somewhat smaller.

Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ Review - Pedaling Nowhere


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> Go to the bottom of the review in the comments section, he gives some measurements. Basically knob width is the same, casing is somewhat smaller.
> 
> Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ Review - Pedaling Nowhere


Cool. They shrunk the casing to account for the knobs. That makes sense.

It will be interesting to see what the production tire looks like.

I'm going to try the Chronicles in 2015 for singletrack and my Knards have enough life left for another year of non-techy riding.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

*Chronicle First Ride*

Got my Maxxis Chronicle EXOs mounted up ghetto-tubeless on the Rabbit Holes a couple of nights ago. No problems, they popped right on. First ride last night, these tyres are what the Krampus should've had all along. I'd given up on the look-at-them-funny-and-they-puncture 120tpi Knards and had been running Minion DHF 2.5 EXO. The Minions are not as fast rolling as the Knards, but grippy as you like. For where I mostly ride my Krampus (Swinley Forest, UK), this means higher average speed.

The Chronicles seem somewhere in the middle of the two tyres. A little slower to get up to speed than the Knard, but since braking/cornering grip is a lot better, they're faster once you get there, at least on my local twisty trails. You can definitely feel more protection of the air inside the tyres, I didn't feel like I had to hold back. On the front, the tyre has a pronounced turn-in, which actually makes the bike feel like it handles quicker, it's a nice trait. Push the front hard and it'll let go in a predictable manner.

Only one short ride, but for me, this has made the Krampus into the bike it should've always been.

Thanks Maxxis :thumbsup:


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## Bike Whisperer (Aug 7, 2012)

SVO said:


> Traxx Fatty mounted and ridden today. Set up tubeless on a P35 like butter. Initial size at 30psi was 69.4mm. Rode at 12 PSI (likely close to where I'll settle), 67.8mm. I'm 200 lbs and ride rigid SS. Post initial stretching i'll guess it will be 69-70mm on the 35mm rim. Impressions (front only): Tread pattern seems derivative of Crossmark (not necessarily a bad thing). Good sidewall balance between toughness/weight/supple. Size is a big notch above a 2.4 nominal. Tire likes speed- very stable. Great braking traction. Surprising early break-out in loose corners- does not match Conti X-King 2.4 in that, although looking at the 2 tread designs you'd expect the opposite result. Bet it will pack-up with snow/mud too easily. Seems like it would be a good rear in the dry, and I'd try reversing direction in back if it fit there (close, not quite). Paid $90 delivered.
> 
> Also, whiners take note that there is a long tradition of creative tire sizing in the MTB industry- the Traxx is as "honest" as most. On a 50mm rim, after it stretches out, it will be very close to 3".


Perfect report, I just pulled the trigger for a front on my full rigid steel 29er hardtail. Should fit fine on my P35's in a Karate Monkey fork. Was more interested in some extra cushion from height and volume than it being a full 3" wide, so it sounds like it will be what I am looking for. Picked up for $88 shipped from Amazon.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Bike Whisperer said:


> Picked up for $88 shipped from Amazon.


Can you post the link? I can't find it on their site.


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## Bike Whisperer (Aug 7, 2012)

jnroyal said:


> Can you post the link? I can't find it on their site.


Only three left!
Amazon.com : VEE Rubber 29x3.0 Trax Fatty : Sports & Outdoors


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## DiscoRover (Nov 2, 2014)

nitrousjunky said:


> Finally, actual pics of the Dirt Wizard 29x3.0"! Second from the right
> View attachment 922637


Anyone know what tire is in the middle? 5 from right of the screen or count 6 from left of the screen. Thanks!


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

DiscoRover said:


> Anyone know what tire is in the middle? 5 from right of the screen or count 6 from left of the screen. Thanks!


I believe it's a Surly Nate


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

ok, i get 76mm widest tread, 72mm casing, on 35mm derby rims at 11psi. as for riding&#8230;.weeeeeeeell, lets just say i'm not taking them off. a step up in confidence&#8230;wet roots are no longer approached with the expectation of rapid sideways motion&#8230;


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## reneg2k (Oct 8, 2011)

Wh're did you get those Chronicles? I just called Maxxis USA and they told me they haven't been shipped from the factory and that they will be available in early December.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

Sideways Cycles :: Home in the uk...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

A clear, crisp afternoon fades slowly into the pinkness of evening.



Crunching through red, yellow, brown leaves on the sidewalk leaving the shop.



Hints of woodsmoke in the air as I skedaddle up the hill away from town. Hints of snow on the mesa above.

Empty trails, tack-tastic from an afternoon shower.



Ostensibly I'm out testing tires. Realistically I'm getting in an 'hour of power' before sunset. Before _winter_.

Too early to conclude anything, but the first, second, third impressions of this pile of tires goes something like:

_"That one rolls like a ball bearing."_

_"That'n's either gonna rip knobs off itself, or the grin right off your face."_

_"They oughta call that one Sybil. No idea what personality it's gonna present next..."_



None of these three pre-prod tires are available to buy, today.

But a few months from now? What a great time to be 'into' this 29+ thing.

Thanks for checkin' in.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

A Wizard front and Chupacabra rear is a set up I've been most stoked by. Will clearance with a Wizard be roughly the same as a Knard in a Fox 34?


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

So is the 3rd tire the Fat B Nimble? Spill it Mikesee.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Slow Danger said:


> So is the 3rd tire the Fat B Nimble? Spill it Mikesee.


Bzzzzzzt.


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Bzzzzzzt.


To the interrogation room with him. Nobody touches him unless I give the word.


----------



## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Bzzzzzzt.


Vittoria?


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

eMcK said:


> Vittoria?


Bzzzzzzzzzt.

Oh--and a small pile of Hugo rims just showed up. Nice to have more tubeless ready options at our disposal...


----------



## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

The Bonti Chupacabra will be available early next month as posted before.

Mikese, do you still have a Lenz Fat-Moth? I saw a few of your post on it last year, but never saw if you did a more thorough review?


----------



## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

i am soooo glad this forum got away from the sniveling bs! personally ive been waiting for the DW's. the krampus is a blast, but at Sunday River I ran out of tire more than once (talent more than once too) at home there is a lot of roots and mud, with the knards it's more like drifting than anything. I will gladly give up some roll for traction, will be following everyones reviews on the others hopefully to make a semi-informed choice. Back to the full fat for now.


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Had first 2 snow rides on Traxx Fatty in the front. Pretty darn good. Super stable at speed. Moderate packing-up. Experienced the self-steering thing for the first time on snow packed road heading home- not terrible but clearly there. Trails were a mix of hiker-packed and 4-5" of freshies. Running 12 PSI on a 35mm rim, 215 lbs ride weight.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

green mt. boy said:


> I see two 29+ tire choices (Knard and Dirt Wizard) on the Surly site. Are these the only choices at this time?


Too much teasing going on in this thread. As others have said, here is another one nobody really knows about yet. One of these with awesome siping is not like any of the others...


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Spill it, Niner pimp. Don't make us go all interrogator on you like we had to mikesee…who still isn't talking. We can alway infiltrate the Front Range forum and make your life miserable.


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

2melow said:


> Too much teasing going on in this thread.


Just because others have decided to tease, it doesn't mean you have to follow

One could be mistaken this is all pre-release marketing hype. That just surely couldn't be the case?


----------



## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Well, here is a very inexpensive alternative...BD Gravity branded tire. Has "Nice Black Color!"
Amazon.com : Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire With Tube! Gravity Vidar Black 29 Inch Package : Sports & Outdoors


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

2melow said:


> As others have said, here is another one nobody really knows about yet. One of these with awesome siping is not like any of the others...


can we get a side shot?:yesnod:


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nothing to see here.



_(Chupacabra on the left.)_​


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Moobs was in town last weekend. I shod my bike with two 29+ proto tires, then did the same with his. Did a few laps on the local loops, swapping bikes on occasion so that we'd have some basis for direct comparison.

Along the way Moobs brought out his drone a few times to get some perspective from on high.






Good days to fiddle with tires and pressures as the local loops were largely empty.​


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Okay, I never wanted a Go Pro (look too dang slow!), but seeing that, I really want a quadcopter. Great toy!


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Nothing to see...
> 
> _(Chupacabra on the left.)_​


Chronicle on the right.


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

2melow said:


> Too much teasing going on in this thread. As others have said, here is another one nobody really knows about yet. One of these with awesome siping is not like any of the others...


It's not a Chronicle, it's not a Chubacabra, it's not a Dirt Wizard, what's left?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> Chronicle on the right.


Sure?

This IS a Chronicle


----------



## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

pursuiter said:


> It's not a Chronicle, it's not a Chubacabra, it's not a Dirt Wizard, what's left?


Panaracer Fat B Nimble?


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Vittoria/Geax also has a tire coming out. Though they said not until 2015 when I asked them. That's likely the tire on the right.


----------



## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

Im wondering . Arent Surly tires made by Innova? If so would that Innova Gravity
tire on Amazon be the same as a 27tpi Knard with different tread?


----------



## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

SVO said:


> Okay, I never wanted a Go Pro (look too dang slow!), but seeing that, I really want a quadcopter. Great toy!


They are supposed to be coming out with ones that will follow you - or at least your smartphone. Wouldn't need someone to fly it.


----------



## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Slash5 said:


> They are supposed to be coming out with ones that will follow you - or at least your smartphone. Wouldn't need someone to fly it.


Great for mikesee's trails. On mine, however, it would crash into a tree in the first 10 feet.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Tire on the right is a Schwalbe......Don't know the model name though.



mikesee said:


> Nothing to see here.
> 
> 
> 
> _(Chupacabra on the left.)_​


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

TuTone T said:


> Tire on the right is a Schwalbe......Don't know the model name though.


Bzzzzzzzt.


----------



## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm going to say that looks like a Duro tire on the right, they are releasing a fat tire soon...


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Nothing to see here.
> 
> 
> 
> _(Chupacabra on the left.)_​


I'm going with Michelin for the tire on the right.










And this looks a like a Minion to me. And look, actual cornering knobs!


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

It's a Vittoria/Geax dudes! Game over. That's what it is. They are mum about it, but the Moonmen guys have a set and I've seen it with my own eye ballzzz


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

appleSSeed said:


> It's a Vittoria/Geax dudes! Game over. That's what it is. They are mum about it, but the Moonmen guys have a set and I've seen it with my own eye ballzzz


And again I say _bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt._


----------



## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

eMcK said:


> And this looks a like a Minion to me. And look, actual cornering knobs!


pretty sure that's the derp wizard, with cut transitional knobs (yay). That's the tire everybody wants, and yes it closely resembles a minion (yay again).

I don't know why everybody wants the gobs'o'knobs pattern. That space between knobs can be as important as just having knobs on every surface. The geax might work with the transition knobs cut, but maybe not.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

eMcK said:


> I'm going with Michelin for the tire on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks eerily close to a tire I designed for CST called the "BFT" ->BFT C1752 | Mountain Bike Tires | CST Tires


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

mikesee said:


> And again I say _bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt._


haha! ok, ok, I give up


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Is it a second tire from Vee Rubber?


----------



## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Conti? Kenda? I think we will find out in a few days anyway.


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

Yes, now that I look at a pic of the Dirt Wizard it is obviously that. Hopefully the rubber will be soft enough, and we might have a winner.



sandwich said:


> pretty sure that's the derp wizard, with cut transitional knobs (yay). That's the tire everybody wants, and yes it closely resembles a minion (yay again).
> 
> I don't know why everybody wants the gobs'o'knobs pattern. That space between knobs can be as important as just having knobs on every surface. The geax might work with the transition knobs cut, but maybe not.


----------



## santacruzer (Nov 30, 2004)

Then there's the Chronic (only available in certain states, medical card needed)


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Hahaha, that would be nice if it was, as we kno price would be killer and despite people not really knowing it CST tyres work very well for about 1/2 the cost of Maxxis and others. Liking that tyre that Mikesee posted that no one seems to be able to identify, looks very promising, fast, with good size, but low knobs and good space between them to let them work.



bholwell said:


> It looks eerily close to a tire I designed for CST called the "BFT" ->BFT C1752 | Mountain Bike Tires | CST Tires


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

i am very much interested in what the diff will be between the Dirt wizard and the chronicle. they look to be covering the same ground to me but i dont have any real knowledge of the finer details of these things. anybody care to elaborate?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Well, the dirt wizard tread pattern closely resembles the maxxis minion (mostly). That means it should have very good braking, steering, and cornering grip. It should dig in decently in loam for climbing. It'll probably roll slow with that knob spacing and the size of the knobs.

The chronicle follows the same notion of having tons of knobs to maximize traction and increase slow speed/solid surface grip. It's probably not going to brake nor accelerate noticeably better than the knard, but it should corner better as it has larger/less round side knobs. It's also a maxxis tire, so it has all of maxxis' tread compound and sidewall contruction technologies built into it.

We still don't know details on the dirt wizards final layup and sidewall construction (sticky, dual compound, 60a, 27/120tpi?) but it's going to be the tire to have for mud, aggressive riding, high speeds, cornering...all that good stuff. The chronicle is probably more of the tire that most people riding this bike needs, which means it's going to excel on packed dirt and gravel paths but offer better durability and improved cornering over the knard.

My only gripe with the knard is the lack of strong braking. The tire wants to skid in places it really should have traction, and that's just a knob height kind of thing, mostly.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I hate bike companies! The Bontrager Chupacabra is now showing in the computer to be available on 01/13/15... A month later than it indicated 2 months ago I wonder how many times they will push it back... Maybe they are in competition with Surly to see who can announce a tire and take the longest to get it out.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U

Just got this today, came in at 955 grams and looks real grippy. Ride report to follow.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Looks a lot like a Racing Ralph, expect though that the so much more of it should have it giving more traction than the RRs are known for.



hirschmj said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U
> 
> Just got this today, came in at 955 grams and looks real grippy. Ride report to follow.


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## the_eleven (Apr 5, 2004)

Trac Fatty?

http://www.amazon.com/VEE-Rubber-29..._sbs_sg_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0B3P5WDWN58NMWN3WQA8


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

hirschmj said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U
> 
> Just got this today, came in at 955 grams and looks real grippy. Ride report to follow.


Any details on this Innova-Gravity?? TPI? Folding? typical Amazon, zero info.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

jekyll2003 said:


> Any details on this Innova-Gravity?? TPI? Folding? typical Amazon, zero info.


No idea on TPI, but at that weight it might very well be 120. Yes folding, even though Amazon says wire bead. Sidewalls feel thin, time will tell how they hold up. I'd be worried about it on the back unless I was somewhere less rocky. It was very difficult to set up tubeless, it spit sealant at the bead for a long time before I got it to shut up. Once it quit spitting it was fine, and it didn't lose air overnight or during the test ride.

On the front it RIPS. I was super impressed with the grip, and it rolls well over flat ground. I got about 18 miles on it with about 3000 feet of climbing and descending and I'm in love. For $40 shipped you can't not try this thing. Of the Knard, Trax Fatty, and Vidar, the Vidar is my favorite by far. Self steer was non-evident, it just felt like a huge grippy mountain bike tire. Rolling resistance felt good. Can't wait to ride it again.

I just got a Chronicle installed on the back, so ride report pending on that guy. Sidewalls are less flimsy feeling, tread looks good, but shallow and the knobs are very tightly spaced. Took a second to get it to 'catch' setting it tubeless, but once we got air in it and the sidewalls popped into place it was immediately quiet. Much better tubeless interface, Maxxis knows what they're doing.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

What's the width on the Innova, and on what rim? I'm hoping for something a little narrower than a Knard, that I might be able to squeeze into the rear of a normal 29er with good clearance.



hirschmj said:


> No idea on TPI, but at that weight it might very well be 120. Yes folding, even though Amazon says wire bead. Sidewalls feel thin, time will tell how they hold up. I'd be worried about it on the back unless I was somewhere less rocky. It was very difficult to set up tubeless, it spit sealant at the bead for a long time before I got it to shut up. Once it quit spitting it was fine, and it didn't lose air overnight or during the test ride.
> 
> On the front it RIPS. I was super impressed with the grip, and it rolls well over flat ground. I got about 18 miles on it with about 3000 feet of climbing and descending and I'm in love. For $40 shipped you can't not try this thing. Of the Knard, Trax Fatty, and Vidar, the Vidar is my favorite by far. Self steer was non-evident, it just felt like a huge grippy mountain bike tire. Rolling resistance felt good. Can't wait to ride it again.
> 
> I just got a Chronicle installed on the back, so ride report pending on that guy. Sidewalls are less flimsy feeling, tread looks good, but shallow and the knobs are very tightly spaced. Took a second to get it to 'catch' setting it tubeless, but once we got air in it and the sidewalls popped into place it was immediately quiet. Much better tubeless interface, Maxxis knows what they're doing.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I think that the first company to come out with a 29er tyre like this current crop of 29+ in a 2.7" size will get a crap load of sales for exactly this reason. I'd love to have something bigger than the 2.4" Ardent for the rear of my Monkey to pair up with a 29+, but I don't want as aggressive a tread as a DHF and honestly want something a tad bigger.



seat_boy said:


> What's the width on the Innova, and on what rim? I'm hoping for something a little narrower than a Knard, that I might be able to squeeze into the rear of a normal 29er with good clearance.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I just want a 2.7 Minion DHF!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I just spoke with my LBS, they report a March 2015 arrival for the Maxxis TR Chronicle, maybe other versions will be here quicker? Anyone have a good report about the Vee Rubber Trax fatty? It's starting to get silly....


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

pursuiter said:


> I just spoke with my LBS, they report a March 2015 arrival for the Maxxis TR Chronicle, maybe other versions will be here quicker? Anyone have a good report about the Vee Rubber Trax fatty? It's starting to get silly....


Search thread- I like it.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Well, I never got an answer to my question, but when the stock on these tires got down to a quantity of two, I went ahead and pulled out my charge card. $40 isn't too much to risk.

I received the tire tonight, and mounted it up on my 35mm Blunt rim and compared it to my Knard:









The new tires is about 5mm taller (this was hard to measure accurately; I didn't take the effort to measure the circumference):









My Knard, mounted tubeless for several weeks now, measures 77.6mm at the outermost knob and 71.5mm at the casing.

The Innova Gravity tire, freshly mounted with a tube, clocks in at 71.6mm at the knobs and 68.5mm at the casing.

So a bit smaller, but maybe not enough to realize my dream of fitting it into a normal 29er frame. Incidentally, my Knard initially measured 68mm at the casing, so it's grown a bit since I mounted it. Perhaps the new tire will be similar.

Also, I realize now "Gravity" is a Bikesdirect brand, and yes indeed, these tires appear on their 29+ bike.



seat_boy said:


> What's the width on the Innova, and on what rim? I'm hoping for something a little narrower than a Knard, that I might be able to squeeze into the rear of a normal 29er with good clearance.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Funny, now they advertise on Amazon that there are only 17 left. So is it 120 TPI and how sturdy does the side wall feel?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Ha! I was suckered then. Anyway, the sidewall felt comparable to my 27 TPI Knard, nothing like the paper thin sidewalls on my Racing Ralph EVO cross tires.



MTB Pilot said:


> Funny, now they advertise on Amazon that there are only 17 left. So is it 120 TPI and how sturdy does the side wall feel?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Thanks for taking the hit for the team  Good info and agree, $40 for a tyre these days is cheap compared to a lot. I finally received my Velocity Dually 45mm rim from Jenson and have to say, holy crap is it wide, when I mounted the Chronicle to it the casing increased by 1/8". The Duallly45 will definitely work well paired with the 29+ upfront, but think for the rear I'll stick to a Blunt35 since the Monkey can't accept anything bigger than a 2.5" tyre. If I do go for a matching wide set, I think it'll be down the line and carbon, probably the IBIS 941s or maybe some Chinese rims in that sort of width laced to hubs of choice - _don't like the fact that they don't offer a 150 x 12 hub option, as that's my preffered hub configuration for the Phantom._



seat_boy said:


> Well, I never got an answer to my question, but when the stock on these tires got down to a quantity of two, I went ahead and pulled out my charge card. $40 isn't too much to risk.
> 
> I received the tire tonight, and mounted it up on my 35mm Blunt rim and compared it to my Knard:
> 
> ...


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info on the Gravity tire. The tread reminds me a lot of the Kenda Karma, with some intermediate knobs added in.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

I continue to be in love with the Vidar. It takes a fair amount of pressure to keep it from squirming. Sidewalls definitely thin, and it's still weeping stan's a tiny bit at the bead interface, but it's holding air fine. 

I put the Chronicle in the rear since the sidewalls feel sturdier and the knobs aren't as aggressive as the Vidar. It hooks up better than the Knard, for sure. I felt confident pushing more speed into corners than I usually would, and while it'll still slide out, it's pretty quick to hook back up and keep going. Doing the pavement test standing still, I could lean the whole bike over 70 degrees and shove on it and it didn't budge. 

Felt a little slower rolling resistance wise, but that's probably because I'm fat post-Thanksgiving. 

Set up tubeless very well, once we got it to quit being so loose on the rim it snapped right into place and held air fine. Maxxis knows how to design a casing, that's for sure. It's more squared off than the Knard. The Vidar's cornering knobs are about halfway between the Knard and the Chronicle, still pretty far down, but not like the Knard where you had to be at 45 degrees to engage them. 

Good stuff, would recommend either.


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## Markhester39 (Nov 15, 2010)

Could someone with a knard or chronicle please measure the loaded wheel radius at 15psi? Looking at how much this will influence frame geo choices as I imagine its quite different to the over all unloaded diameter which I think most people have been quoting.

Cheers
mark


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

WHAT? Just kidding, I only do my measurements for my computer with me sitting on the bike to load the tyres and get an accurate measurement and what I got was 2355mm roll out, PSI was somewhere around that. As you say, can definitely feel a big difference when the PSI drops - _the tube I have in mine has a slow leak and can't be bothered to change it out as it holds for about 3 hours, but it does drop from about 18-13 PSI by the end of the ride if I don't stop to pump it up and you can really feel it start to self steer at that PSI on the WTB ST i25 rim._



Markhester39 said:


> Could someone with a knard or chronicle please measure the loaded wheel radius at 15psi? Looking at how much this will influence frame geo choices as I imagine its quite different to the over all unloaded diameter which I think most people have been quoting.
> 
> Cheers
> mark


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Im in the same boat as hirschmj and love these cheapo tires. I setup a pair of the Vidars up on my nextie 50mm wheels tubeless. That was an experience. it took me a good while and a couple different methods to get them to seat. I had to use a tube to seat the front. It took a lot of thick soapy water to seat the rear which blew off the first try(wasnt paying attention and over inflated it) and caused me some hearing loss im sure. My tires are wire bead and feel more like 27tpi. the sidewalls are sturdier then 120tpi knards but not as sturdy as the vee trax. these roll as well as the knards and have more grip in the turns. they didnt present any self steering characteristics. I settled on 12 psi front and 14 rear for the first ride. they were pretty good at those pressures i plan on dropping 2psi for the next ride. I dont have calipers so i cant get good measurements but they have a similar roundish profile like the knard and look to be on par width wise. they are much wider and side knobs better placed then the vee. other then trying to set them up tubeless i am really impressed. they both weighed 955g compared to my 120 tpi knard at 1050g and the traxx at 940g.


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## ErikPlankton (Apr 8, 2014)

I have now about 2000 km on the Chronicles, so I did a quick review on them as well as some other components in my current setup: GEAR CHECK by Erik Plankton

Very happy with these tires.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Are the photos of the tyres recent, as in after the 2,000km? I'd think you want to do a bit of an edit to your "review" and change the "They've worn 1-2mm" to "they've worn maybe a mm" because the treads themselves are only 3mm tall and the sipes are a bit over 1mm deep and you can still see the sipes.

I know BAR is what a lot of Europeans use and may work fine for a car, but honestly, HTF do you differentiate between the very small and subtle pressure changes needed to adjust bicycle tyres? A bicycle tyre can turn from handling like rubbish to excellent, with as little as a 1-2 PSI drop or raise in pressure ut:

Also curious why you went with the Rabbit Holes instead of say the Velocity Dually45, was the Dually not out yet? Ask as the Dually while being only 5mm narrower_ (not big deal)_ is about 20g lighter and a double wall rim. I just built a Dually for my KM and it built up super easy, actually just did a rim tape to my existing front wheel and transferred spokes over and tensioned and it's super solid for some serious off road riding. Also, setting the Dually up tubeless was a breeze, couldn't believe how easy it was and has held air perfectly for over 36 hours.



ErikPlankton said:


> I have now about 2000 km on the Chronicles, so I did a quick review on them as well as some other components in my current setup: GEAR CHECK by Erik Plankton
> 
> Very happy with these tires.


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## ErikPlankton (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks for your comments. You are right that the text needs a bit of editting to make it more clear, will do that shortly. 

For some reason we are used to the BAR scale in tire pressure in europe. Using PSI would be more useful bikes and since it is more accurate. I will change that too. I don't have really any real statistics for tire pressures, since I really don't bother to measure it when bike touring. Just deflate and inflate them according to the surface and load carried.

I went with the Rabbit Holes, since they were available directly from the local shop along with the hubs, so it was an easy build without having to order anything overseas. Would like to try the Dually45 though. It looks like a good choice too.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I still can't understand why the chronicle is out in other places around the world but not here in the US. Your two chain drops are due to the RF N/W ring, it isn't designed like like Sram or Wolftooth rings that will keep the chain on, even without tension.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Question for the experts here:
Is not the tendency of a tire to square-off on a wider rim largely related the the relative stiffness of sidewall vs tread area? 

One can imagine putting a casing without tread or sidewall on a wide rim and it producing an almost totally round profile. If that's the case then it would seem that, those of us looking to fit as much volume as possible (rim+tire), and run at as low a pressure as practical, in an existing 29er frame would be looking for tires with relatively thick sidewalls and relatively flexible tread areas.

Also, it would seem to me that such tires might be less prone to getting harsh when the rim is a large fraction of the tire width, e.g. 2.4s on a Dually or 50mm carbon.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

not sure what this is worth to anybody given the infinite delays, but i called surly about the dirt wizard and the man i spoke with said the prototyping is over and the first production batch has shipped from oversees. they expect an early 2015 availability. 

i guess we will see, but the guy assured me they were en route


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Coleman22 said:


> not sure what this is worth to anybody given the infinite delays, but i called surly about the dirt wizard and the man i spoke with said the prototyping is over and the first production batch has shipped from oversees. they expect an early 2015 availability.
> 
> i guess we will see, but the guy assured me they were en route


Apparently they had to retool for it, the local rep that has surly emailed for me and the response was March.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

So I decided to try one of the Innova Gravity tires since all the big companies can't get there acts together and get the tires they leaked 4 months ago on the market. First off, it feels thinner and quite flimsier than the 120 tpi Knard. I didn't weigh it, as I don't really care that much. It was really, really loose on my 50mm rim and there was no chance of setting it tubeless without beading with a tube first. Did that and removed the tube. Getting the unbeaded side back on was a bit of a pain, but got it after a bit of screwing around. I used 130ml of Stan's and quite a bit of it came out sealing the bead. Lots of shaking and putting more air in to get all the little leaks to seal. This was more of a PIA than the 27 tpi Knard on the rear.

Anyway, I'm little fearful that this thing is not going to last long in the rocks, so for the first ride I'm going to take it to trails that are crushed granite over hard surface and sandy. The kitty litter surface is the most treacherous with the Knards anyway, so should be a good test to see how much better of cornering bite this tire might have. I report back afterwards.

In the mean time, here are some pics for comparison:


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## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

can anybody measure for me the overall diameter of a maxxis chronicle?
thanks.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

i just got one of the innova tires as well and must respectfully disagree with the some of MTB Pilot's comments...

to me the sidewallas seem about average (not race tire thin but not dh tire thick). They went on my stans flow with a little bit of difficulty; about the same as most regular tires...

only one test ride so far but promisingly awesome for the front of my rigid bike. Even after riding this for only one shortish ride; it seems to me a 29+ will be pretty normal on the front of a lot rigid riders bikes before long. It seems like it will be especially beneficial for those of us large enough to not be able to run super-low pressure in a normal tire because of pinch-flats...

i am pretty much a newb as far as tubeless setup goes but i am thinking i will bother a friend with more expertise in that arena for some help with this tire some time in the near future and see how it goes. 

either way for 40 bucks it is worth it even if just as an experiment.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

So I got out this morn and did a quick 15 mile ride to test this tire finally:thumbsup: This area has fast, flowy, sandy, quick turns and mostly loose over hard trails that can really prove a good cornering tire. Well, this tire's performance is worth the price without a doubt. I had so many PRs today on many different trails, and I actually didn't feel that great physically. I started out with 16 psi just to see what it did and finally got down to just over 11 psi. This thing hooks up WAY better than the Knard and I pushed it so hard that I scared myself a few times. I NEVER lost grip with this tire and leaned it over to the point where I could just barely feel it wanted to go if I pushed more. I was leaned in so hard on two high speed turns, that the back end came out around 45 degrees before I had to let off! The Knard on the rear was the only thing holding me back. It does have a slight bit more of rolling resistance, but not enough to worry, even if you were racing. Not sure if I want to try it on the rear as I should have a Bonti Chupa in about a month and have to go to work for part of that time.

If your impatient and scared of the Knard on front, this thing is worth the $40 and hassle putting it on... SO FAR! Tomorrow I'm going to take it on a rocky, chunkier trail, so I'll see if the side walls will hold up as well as my 120 Knard has.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Isn't it possible at all to buy this Innova Gravity tire in europe?
amazon will not ship it me...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Curious what you weigh ready to ride? Far as I recall you're not a light guy. Ask as well I read about all these super low pressures before I got my 29+ tyres, but honestly at about 180lbs ready to ride running around 15 PSI I can't go lower without experiencing lots of rims strikes on square edged stuff. At first on the i25s that was a as low as I'd want to go for the tyres width and roll, but then got the Dually and was excited to go lower, but as I said, square edged hit and I heard the clunk of a rim strike. 
Also, don't you notice the "Self steer" these tyres experience as you go to such low pressures? For me it's annoying and weird, having to almost immediately initiate counter steer as I initiate into a slight turn using my hips, thing just wants to turn in too easy.



MTB Pilot said:


> So I got out this morn and did a quick 15 mile ride to test this tire finally:thumbsup: This area has fast, flowy, sandy, quick turns and mostly loose over hard trails that can really prove a good cornering tire. Well, this tire's performance is worth the price without a doubt. I had so many PRs today on many different trails, and I actually didn't feel that great physically. * I started out with 16 psi just to see what it did and finally got down to just over 11 psi.* This thing hooks up WAY better than the Knard and I pushed it so hard that I scared myself a few times. I NEVER lost grip with this tire and leaned it over to the point where I could just barely feel it wanted to go if I pushed more. I was leaned in so hard on two high speed turns, that the back end came out around 45 degrees before I had to let off! The Knard on the rear was the only thing holding me back. It does have a slight bit more of rolling resistance, but not enough to worry, even if you were racing. Not sure if I want to try it on the rear as I should have a Bonti Chupa in about a month and have to go to work for part of that time.
> 
> If your impatient and scared of the Knard on front, this thing is worth the $40 and hassle putting it on... SO FAR! Tomorrow I'm going to take it on a rocky, chunkier trail, so I'll see if the side walls will hold up as well as my 120 Knard has.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I'm 205 lbs ready to ride with water in pack. When I ride chunky trails, I normally go with 12F/14.5R psi. I feel a rim bottom out on the rear every once in a while when blasting really chunky, rocky descents, but no damage so far with the 27 tpi knard on it. No, I really don't feel any self steering tendencies with 29+ tires. 

Maybe try being a little lighter on the front in the chunky stuff; I never run the front wheel directly into square edge hits, I lift the front up over as much as I can.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

You're a lighter front rider, that's all there is in it probably - I've seen pics of Lynx - he's all over his front 

I ride with ~12F on a Knard & now a Chronicle. That's on a rigid, with a rear ward weight bias set-up (ala 'Jones bike').


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I think I got the answer I was looking for in both your replies. Guess I was looking to be able to use these 29+/3" tyres as "workable" suspension that can take hits, more so than older/smaller combos could. I guess the difference is between having suspension taking some of the impact as compared to a rigid where the rim/tyre takes it all. I haven't had much time on it yet, only one very easy ride with the full setup, 29+ & 45mm rim, so expect I'll get better results compared to the i25/29+ tyre combo. 
Have not had the opportunity to try it out on my truly fav trails that are steep, full or big rocks and slow moves, which is where I think it'll shine, because as someone said, when all's done and said, it's still a rigid and it'll bounce you about no matter if you take the speeds way up there, more so because of the bouncy ballon tyres.



MTB Pilot said:


> I'm 205 lbs ready to ride with water in pack. When I ride chunky trails, I normally go with 12F/14.5R psi. I feel a rim bottom out on the rear every once in a while when blasting really chunky, rocky descents, but no damage so far with the 27 tpi knard on it. No, I really don't feel any self steering tendencies with 29+ tires.
> 
> Maybe try being a little lighter on the front in the chunky stuff; I never run the front wheel directly into square edge hits, I lift the front up over as much as I can.





bonesetter2004 said:


> You're a lighter front rider, that's all there is in it probably - I've seen pics of Lynx - he's all over his front
> 
> I ride with ~12F on a Knard & now a Chronicle. That's on a rigid, with a rear ward weight bias set-up (ala 'Jones bike').


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Just picked up a set of those Gravity's, cause cheap rubber. First impressions? Actual side knobs! Racing Ralph-like tread, so traction is awesome because Schwalbe. Size is with in wiskers of a Knard, so VOLUME! Nice smallish hot patch, so BLACK!


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*MTB Plot (or others)* any chance you could throw a pair of calipers across the Innova 29 x 3.0 to get the actual width at the casing and at the tread ? Also, let me know what size rim (ID) you are running ? I like the way it fills out your fork and want to know if I could run these on my 2014 Trance1 front and back as I'm thinking about getting wider wheels (30mm Inside Width) and want the widest tires I can run on it.
I am currently running Continental Mountain King 29 X 2.4 front and rear, and have approxamately .375" (9.5mm) clearance on each side. The Conti's measure 2.37" (60mm) at casing and 2.33" (59mm) at tread on the factory P-XC2 wheels that measure 19mm ID. I'd like to have some actual numbers if possible before I order the Innova 3.0.

*Thanks* - jp08865


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Look back a few posts to here.



jp08865 said:


> *MTB Plot (or others)* any chance you could throw a pair of calipers across the Innova 29 x 3.0 to get the actual width at the casing and at the tread ? Also, let me know what size rim (ID) you are running ? I like the way it fills out your fork and want to know if I could run these on my 2014 Trance1 front and back as I'm thinking about getting wider wheels (30mm Inside Width) and want the widest tires I can run on it.
> I am currently running Continental Mountain King 29 X 2.4 front and rear, and have approxamately .375" (9.5mm) clearance on each side. The Conti's measure 2.37" (60mm) at casing and 2.33" (59mm) at tread on the factory P-XC2 wheels that measure 19mm ID. I'd like to have some actual numbers if possible before I order the Innova 3.0.
> 
> *Thanks* - jp08865


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

MTB Pilot said:


> Panaracer FatBNimble 27.5/29x3.0 $60
> 
> View attachment 922739


Great price!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

LyNx said:


> I think I got the answer I was looking for in both your replies. Guess I was looking to be able to use these 29+/3" tyres as "workable" suspension that can take hits, more so than older/smaller combos could. I guess the difference is between having suspension taking some of the impact as compared to a rigid where the rim/tyre takes it all. I haven't had much time on it yet, only one very easy ride with the full setup, 29+ & 45mm rim, so expect I'll get better results compared to the i25/29+ tyre combo.
> Have not had the opportunity to try it out on my truly fav trails that are steep, full or big rocks and slow moves, which is where I think it'll shine, because as someone said, when all's done and said, it's still a rigid and it'll bounce you about no matter if you take the speeds way up there, more so because of the bouncy ballon tyres.


When i ride my krampus in the mountains with BIG downhills with super steep sections that a fair number of expert riders walk their enduro bikes down (I walked a few on my small krampus, but not on my medium, I'm proud to say), I have to run high pressure in my tires so I don't pinch the sidewalls/destroy my rims. I don't notice that it's bouncy, just that it's rough. Compared to running a 29er with front suspension, My arms and hands get very very tired at the end of a 6 mile downhill run. On a short, but steep downhill, I'm reasonably fast compared to my riding buddies. But when the downhills are long, fatigue kicks in big time and when it's a timed downhill, it's not too fun. Looking forward to a front suspension fork with 29+, but I only want one for riding the big stuff.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

LyNx said:


> I think I got the answer I was looking for in both your replies. Guess I was looking to be able to use these 29+/3" tyres as "workable" suspension that can take hits, more so than older/smaller combos could. I guess the difference is between having suspension taking some of the impact as compared to a rigid where the rim/tyre takes it all. I haven't had much time on it yet, only one very easy ride with the full setup, 29+ & 45mm rim, so expect I'll get better results compared to the i25/29+ tyre combo.
> Have not had the opportunity to try it out on my truly fav trails that are steep, full or big rocks and slow moves, which is where I think it'll shine, because as someone said, when all's done and said, it's still a rigid and it'll bounce you about no matter if you take the speeds way up there, more so because of the bouncy ballon tyres.


I don't know if I'm missing the mark on your post but the krampus/29+ is pretty great for taking the piss out of most bumps. I have been riding suspension for years and even have an enduro 29er, but I'm relatively new to hardtails. I've actually considered getting rid of the krampus because it's TOO similar to the enduro, and not really enough of a ride difference to justify it. The big tires (I have 120 knards with tubes and duallys) really absorb a lot of trail noise, and they stick like velcro under slow speed acceleration like climbing and such. The knards suck for braking and cornering, but the width makes up for acceleration. I currently run a Fox sus fork on mine as the rigid fork with fat tires doesn't make much difference, but on the rear the rigid is really pretty nice with the fat tire. For background, I had an aluminum scott scale that I loved but was too stiff for my comfort. The krampus solves all that, but it does give up some of that lightning like reflex.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

LyNx said:


> at about 180lbs ready to ride running around 15 PSI I can't go lower without experiencing lots of rims strikes


in front, in back or both?

i can run much lower PSI's in front. i am only running one up front for that reason. If I had to run one of these in back i'd bet i'd need at least 25psi (i need 40psi in a 2.2 to keep from pinching). If you are getting lots of rim strikes with 15psi i'd like to see how that happens.

my only test ride so far was at 20psi but it was way too much air; gonna try 15 the next time out. and btw, i weigh 220 so i am by no means a featherweight

oh and for those still on the fence about the gravity. tubeless setup was easy on a stans flow. mine is holding air perfect but i am still waiting for a real test ride (damn rain) in the new tubeless configuration.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I would love to see a pic and get a report of the Gravity on a flow. 
Thanks


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'm not sure how to take that, except to think they enduro really rides like $hit, because the difference between my rigid KM with 29= front and 2.4" rear rides NOTHING like my Phantom with 105mm rear/130mm front. The Monkey is fun and different, it makes you ride and look at trails differently, hence makes things interesting, but if I could only have one bike, no doubt of it, it would be the Phantom.



sandwich said:


> I don't know if I'm missing the mark on your post but the krampus/29+ is pretty great for taking the piss out of most bumps. I have been riding suspension for years and even have an enduro 29er, but I'm relatively new to hardtails. I've actually considered getting rid of the krampus because it's TOO similar to the enduro, and not really enough of a ride difference to justify it. The big tires (I have 120 knards with tubes and duallys) really absorb a lot of trail noise, and they stick like velcro under slow speed acceleration like climbing and such. The knards suck for braking and cornering, but the width makes up for acceleration. I currently run a Fox sus fork on mine as the rigid fork with fat tires doesn't make much difference, but on the rear the rigid is really pretty nice with the fat tire. For background, I had an aluminum scott scale that I loved but was too stiff for my comfort. The krampus solves all that, but it does give up some of that lightning like reflex.


Max, that's front only, can prob go lower, but can't afford to be damaging my new wheel. Know that most seem to be running the front down to 11-12 PSI with success, so not sure what I'm doing wrong/differently, but more than likely trying to actually use it as suspension and not finessing it as much as I would when running a 2.4" tyre. I normally run my front on my sus bikes down to 21-23lbs depending on the tyre and trail type I'm riding, so would think I can go quite a bit lower with the 3" tyre on a 45mm rim, but then I watch the front and don't bash it really hard into stuff.

Like you PG, despite the big tyres, I feel beat to crap after a good technical ride of even under 2 hours on the rigid, so definitely a big difference for me between it and my FS that I can ride for hours without feeling nearly as beat.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

PretendGentleman said:


> When i ride my krampus in the mountains with BIG downhills with super steep sections that a fair number of expert riders walk their enduro bikes down (I walked a few on my small krampus, but not on my medium, I'm proud to say), I have to run high pressure in my tires so I don't pinch the sidewalls/destroy my rims. I don't notice that it's bouncy, just that it's rough. Compared to running a 29er with front suspension, My arms and hands get very very tired at the end of a 6 mile downhill run. On a short, but steep downhill, I'm reasonably fast compared to my riding buddies. But when the downhills are long, fatigue kicks in big time and when it's a timed downhill, it's not too fun. Looking forward to a front suspension fork with 29+, but I only want one for riding the big stuff.


Wow, I bet those guys are like super expert and stuff.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*seat_boy*, Thanks for the link. I ordered one to see how it fits & feels. I think it will clear on front, not sure about rear but will know soon.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

GT87 said:


> Wow, I bet those guys are like super expert and stuff.


I've been trolled, but I can't resist, so congrats on achieving your objective. I say expert to distinguish them from intermediate and elite riders. Expert is a broad category. I consider myself expert because I can outride some guys I know that have been doing well in expert races for over a decade. But I also know some elite riders and they're beyond me by a good bit 95% of the time.

I would say everyone that races in the mountains with me (I only do a few non-sanctioned races and no sanctioned races) is expert at minimum; some riders from big trade teams will show up to race too. these races are invite only, and it's too dangerous to let intermediate riders come along, except for maybe 1 day in 4 when the descents are more manageable. At this race and races like it there will sometimes be elite riders who will walk down some of the super steep downhills. Just because you've ridden the tour de france doesn't mean you're comfortable riding down everything. For some really fast climbers, it's easy to win races even when they lose plenty of time on the downhills. Are they experts at downhill? Perhaps not. Are they experts at cross country? No, they're elite. Are they expert mountain bikers? Without a doubt in my mind.

We also have some top, full-salaried motorcycle enduro racers that come out and ride these races too. These guys are absolutely incredible on the downhills, but are midpack at best on the uphills. I'd call them expert mountain bikers too.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*fixgeardan*, Amen, to the "_*I just want a 2.7 Minion DHF!* _"
Guessing that would be too simple, specially an *actual 2.7".*


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

fishwrinkle said:


> can we get a side shot?:yesnod:


Yup. Phenomenal tires for 29+ are about here.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thanks for the side shot as i was j/k & being a smart ass, but i see what you did there. lol


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

WTT: my 27 tpi Knard, nearly new, for your Vee Rubber Fatty Trax.

I'm looking for something smaller that could fit in more frames. It's a long shot, but ya never know.


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## Mallanaga (Jun 30, 2007)

Looking forward to a chupa up front and an xr2 out back on some 941's. That tire with all the sipes in it looks quite nice, too.


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

I just got the Gravity Vidar 29+ tire for christmas with the intention of putting on the front of my Canfield Nimble 9. For giggles, I tried it on the rear and that sucker fits with some room to spare with the sliders halfway back. Its mounted on a Stan's flow so the narrower rim probably makes the tire a tad narrower than it otherwise would be. I'll give it a try and see how it goes and report back. I found it as a possible alternative to going all the way and investing in a 29+ specific frame right now.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

is it possible for you to post some pics and measures of this tire/rim combo mounted and in the frame? i'm bouncing 3 different wheelset designs around in my head right now and this might help me make up my mind. this is also for an n9. looking at 29 & 650 dt swiss fr 570's or 650 dually's for b+. i'm thinking of bathing in the b+ kool-aid for a minute


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

*Vidar 29+ on Flows in rear of N9 frame*

































fishwrinkle, I hope this is what you are looking for.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

jekyll2003 said:


> I just got the Gravity Vidar 29+ tire for christmas with the intention of putting on the front of my Canfield Nimble 9. For giggles, I tried it on the rear and that sucker fits with some room to spare with the sliders halfway back. Its mounted on a Stan's flow so the narrower rim probably makes the tire a tad narrower than it otherwise would be. I'll give it a try and see how it goes and report back. I found it as a possible alternative to going all the way and investing in a 29+ specific frame right now.


I was thinking about doing this on my Luddite with the sliders also back a bit. Would you say it measures 2.75"? Did it setup tubeless ok?


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

I'd say its close to 2.85 to 2.9" with 15 psi measuring with a ruler because I don't have calipers on hand. I have not set up tubeless yet. I wasn't sure it was going to fit in the chain stays so I tried with a tube first. I will try tubeless next. 

I'll say that with the N9, the sliders midway back was optimum because with them further back it took the tire out of the wide part of the stay. Also it just so happened that I was able to use a half link to tension the chain perfectly in that sweet spot for tire fit. 

Good luck with your Luddlite.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Great info above. I'm going to try some out. They're a cheap experiment.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yes it helps me, thank you


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## Mallanaga (Jun 30, 2007)

2melow said:


> Yup.


Spill it...


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Got two rides on Vidar and Traxx Fatty (F/R) on snow- Prefer the Vidar to the the Traxx. No self-steering, compliant, clears well, ran at 10 PSI. Wish it were folding to drop some grams. Got the Traxx to fit in the rear of my frame by trimming the outside knobs about in half. Works better as a rear tire- no steering business. 

Warmed Vidar up to 140 degrees before mounting- sealed up tubeless no problem.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

How about a picture of your rig?



SVO said:


> Great to see some nice 29+ tire options coming out. I own a custom Ti 29er hardtail (run rigid) built with as much rear clearance as practical- She's been waiting for these tire sizes for 7 years!
> 
> In my case really don't think a smaller rim diameter is needed (slider drop-outs and half-links are your friends), just good, light-ish tires in 2.5-2.8. Running 2.4 Contis on P35s tubeless (22/18 PSI @ 200lbs, no issues) I have demoed fat bikes against my 29er. Overall I'd take the 29er ever time on dry dirt. On snow that equation is pretty even depending on conditions. Don't ride sand. Threw a leg over a Krampus once: a P-I-G compared to my 20-ish lb. rigid SS. No thanks. Thought the Knards were mediocre too.
> 
> ...


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*INNOVA VIDAR/GRAVITY 29 x 3.0*

*FYI: *Innova Vidar / Gravity 29+, 29" X 3.00"
Mounted on rims 30mm Inside Width:
Circumferance (static)@ 25 psi. = 95.25" / 2419 mm
Width, 2.77" (70.3 mm) at Casing 
Width, 2.87" (72.9 mm) at Tread

Tires were tight getting on rims, but finally managed with no tools.

Unfortunately, I won't get the chance to try them out for a couple of months but thought I would pass along these actual measurements for anyone considering this rim width / tire combination.

Circumferance will be my biggest concern since they are considerably larger in diameter than the Continental Mtn. King 29 X 2.4" tires I was running.

Conti's were 92.75" / 2356 mm circumferance on 19 mm Inside Width rims.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> How about a picture of your rig?


When she's clean she is purty! And with the big rubber.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well that's good of you, the more info people share, the more informed we'll all be. My measurements were just height increase over a 2.4" Ardent and both 29+ tyres I have are about 1cm taller,but do fit in my newer 2014 F34 and with much more clearance in the older 2012 F34. My roll-out for them is 2355 loaded on Velocity45 rim on the front at around 15 PSI. Very curious why you'd put a 2.4" tyre on such a narrow rim, it must ride like crap, lots of tyre roll if you run decent pressures :???:



jp08865 said:


> *FYI: *Innova Vidar / Gravity 29+, 29" X 3.00"
> Mounted on rims 30mm Inside Width:
> Circumferance (static)@ 25 psi. = 95.25" / 2419 mm
> Width, 2.77" (70.3 mm) at Casing
> ...


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

jekyll2003 said:


> I just got the Gravity Vidar 29+ tire for christmas with the intention of putting on the front of my Canfield Nimble 9. For giggles, I tried it on the rear and that sucker fits with some room to spare with the sliders halfway back. Its mounted on a Stan's flow so the narrower rim probably makes the tire a tad narrower than it otherwise would be. I'll give it a try and see how it goes and report back. I found it as a possible alternative to going all the way and investing in a 29+ specific frame right now.


Ride Report Update. I tried the Gravity Vidar's 29+ in my N9 frame and there is quite a bit of flex in the tire sidewall. i can tell because it rubs on the chainstays occasionally on fast turns. Kinda a bummer, but what do you expect when cramming a 29+ tire into a non 29+ frame.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

jekyll2003 said:


> Ride Report Update. I tried the Gravity Vidar's 29+ in my N9 frame and there is quite a bit of flex in the tire sidewall. i can tell because it rubs on the chainstays occasionally on fast turns. Kinda a bummer, but what do you expect when cramming a 29+ tire into a non 29+ frame.


HAHAHA, there is "quite a bit of flex" in any sidewall with less than enough air pressure.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Try it on a Blunt35 or better yet a Dually 45, will completely change the aspects of the tyre, what pressures you can run without tyre roll/squirm.


jekyll2003 said:


> Ride Report Update. I tried the Gravity Vidar's 29+ in my N9 frame and there is quite a bit of flex in the tire sidewall. i can tell because it rubs on the chainstays occasionally on fast turns. Kinda a bummer, but what do you expect when cramming a 29+ tire into a non 29+ frame.


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

LyNx said:


> Try it on a Blunt35 or better yet a Dually 45, will completely change the aspects of the tyre, what pressures you can run without tyre roll/squirm.


I am not sure. I was running 15 psi so I'll bump it up and see how the squirm works and how the pressure makes the ride feels.

I'm afraid if I use a wider rim the tire will effectively be wider and not be able to clear the already tight stays. Any knowledge if this is true?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, when I moved from the WTB ST i25 to the Dually 45, the width grew by about 1/8", not nearly as much as I expected increasing the Internal Width by 14mm, however, sidewall support increased by miles, no more rolly feel at 15 PSI.



jekyll2003 said:


> I am not sure. I was running 15 psi so I'll bump it up and see how the squirm works and how the pressure makes the ride feels.
> 
> I'm afraid if I use a wider rim the tire will effectively be wider and not be able to clear the already tight stays. Any knowledge if this is true?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yes i agree with lynx, the wider rims do let the tire grow, but it's only marginal compared to the leaps and gains of the internal sizes of the rim. jekyll i can comfortably fit a 2.5 dhf on a dually in my gen 2 n9 with sliders almost slammed. hope that helps ya with deciding on what to do


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

fishwrinkle said:


> yes i agree with lynx, the wider rims do let the tire grow, but it's only marginal compared to the leaps and gains of the internal sizes of the rim. jekyll i can comfortably fit a 2.5 dhf on a dually in my gen 2 n9 with sliders almost slammed. hope that helps ya with deciding on what to do


I really don't think I can fit another 1/8" in this frame. No biggie. This was just an experiment to try 29+. I have my future sights on a Carver Gnarvester so the tires are not wasted. I'll be going with wider rims on that build. Got now I'll probably go with the 29+ on the front and a 2.4 Ardent on the back.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Well, when I moved from the WTB ST i25 to the Dually 45, the width grew by about 1/8", not nearly as much as I expected increasing the Internal Width by 14mm, however, sidewall support increased by miles, no more rolly feel at 15 PSI.


Yes, exactly. Flow is simply too narrow for that tire. Works on a Blunt 35 at 10 PSI for me in front, but I'd want another 5-10mm of internal rim width in back. Very compliant sidewalls.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

b+ wheelset for the n9. drink the kool aid


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

SVO said:


> Yes, exactly. Flow is simply too narrow for that tire. Works on a Blunt 35 at 10 PSI for me in front, but I'd want another 5-10mm of internal rim width in back. Very compliant sidewalls.


So you want bigger than 35 in the back?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well going by my WTB ST i25 rim, which has an external width of 30mm, I'd definitely say yes since the Blunt35 only has a 29mm internal width and the ST i25 with a 2.4" Ardent could definitely use a good bit wider rim, so a 29+ absolutely.



SS Hack said:


> So you want bigger than 35 in the back?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

SS Hack said:


> So you want bigger than 35 in the back?


Yup. A lot more lateral force goes on in the back. Wider rim manages that much better. So a 35-40mm internal width on rear would have to fit before I'd run a Vidar in the back. My frame doesn't have close to that clearance (almost true 3") so the Vidar is front only for me.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

fishwrinkle said:


> b+ wheelset for the n9. drink the kool aid


You know the WTB Trailblazer is completely sold out and the next shipment is mostly spoken for and a few months away. Kudos to WTB for identifying this opportunity, but they should have had the courage of their convictions and ordered a decent amount. Kinda doubt thousands of these flew off the shelves- more likely they were very cautious. If the mold exists I fail to see why it should take that long to get another batch- Air shipping small quantities is just not that expensive these days.

Business rant aside, that delay led me to do a bunch of careful calculations. Tough to dip your toe on this as a new custom rear wheel is required.

In my situation I am running the Niner rigid fork (shorter height than assumed in frame design) so my geometry is a bit nose-down with matching tires F/R. With the Trailblazer in back and a true 3" in front (say a Vidar on a 50mm external rim) that situation is reversed, and my angles are a bit slack. But put a 29" tire the width of the Trailblazer (assume 40mm external rim) on the back and a true 3" in front and the angles are close to ideal and I have enough clearance in back for that.

So for my situation I'm going to assume that other companies will note the WTB success and follow with tires in the 2.5-2.8 width, both 27.5 and 29, that are meant to fit existing frames. So I'm going to build a wheelset 29/29, 40mm rear, 50mm front, and run a 2.4 in the back until those products show-up, FINGERS/eyes CROSSED! :crazy:


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i gotcha.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Anyone in need of a 29+ wheelset, look below:

29+ plus SS wheelset: Jones rims & Hope hubs - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

bikeny said:


> Anyone in need of a 29+ wheelset, look below:
> 
> 29+ plus SS wheelset: Jones rims & Hope hubs - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


That's a super solid set. I am getting the bits to build similar for myself and also went with the Hope SS rear. I've deformed alloy carriers even with wide base cogs so the Hope SS is a great choice for Clydes, short of the big bucks CK. 3 cartridge and one needle bearing. Not light, but you can't have everything...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Didn't see this mentioned above: Trek has the Bontrager Chupacabra in stock at their Central Distribution Center. Any Trek dealer can order them.

I have them in stock as well.

Carry on.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Anyone know if there's a discussion anywhere about 29+ pannier racks?

I did a search for Krampus and ECR racks, and it looks like most people are using OMM, but I'd like to know what else is out there.

I found a review of a Tubus rack that will fit a knard with 35s but not rabbitholes. And one review of the Thules says they won't quite fit 3". I've currently got a toppeak rack that has lots of width, but height-wise it's pretty tight with a 2.4 and I'm worried I'll need to get something new once I find a ~2.8 tire that fits my frame.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Didn't see this mentioned above: Trek has the Bontrager Chupacabra in stock at their Central Distribution Center. Any Trek dealer can order them.
> 
> I have them in stock as well.
> 
> Carry on.


Good to hear another tire is available. What's the weight and price on them?


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

newfangled said:


> Anyone know if there's a discussion anywhere about 29+ pannier racks?
> 
> I did a search for Krampus and ECR racks, and it looks like most people are using OMM, but I'd like to know what else is out there.
> 
> I found a review of a Tubus rack that will fit a knard with 35s but not rabbitholes. And one review of the Thules says they won't quite fit 3". I've currently got a toppeak rack that has lots of width, but height-wise it's pretty tight with a 2.4 and I'm worried I'll need to get something new once I find a ~2.8 tire that fits my frame.


The surly rack should work.


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

Darnit. Almost


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

seat_boy said:


> I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.


Agreed!


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

newfangled said:


> Anyone know if there's a discussion anywhere about 29+ pannier racks?
> 
> I did a search for Krampus and ECR racks, and it looks like most people are using OMM, but I'd like to know what else is out there.
> 
> I found a review of a Tubus rack that will fit a knard with 35s but not rabbitholes.


Tubus have a new rack out called you guessed it, FAT. Haven't seen any reviews or pricing as yet but.










Andrew


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

seat_boy said:


> I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.


WTB made a 29 x 2.6" tire a few years back called the Dissent. Way ahead of it's time--which is why they stopped making it.



I still have 6 or 7 new ones on the shelf if anyone wants to try 'em. Wire bead, mondo aggressive tread, and sidewall protection means they ain't light. But man do they get the job done if hauling the mail through chunder is your cuppa tea.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

The Dissent was just crazy heavy _(think they were around 1400g)_ and way over the top for what anyone wanted or IMHO wants for most of the riding they do. I think a 2.6-2.7" tyre like the 29+ one you posted that no one can guess what/who's tyre it is, but with a bit beefier side knobs would be the ticket and under 1000g.



seat_boy said:


> I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

seat_boy said:


> I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.


agree.
looks like the Trax Fatty 29x3 measures 2.8" though.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

LyNx said:


> The Dissent was just crazy heavy _(think they were around 1400g)_ and way over the top for what anyone wanted or IMHO wants for most of the riding they do. I think a 2.6-2.7" tyre like the 29+ one you posted that no one can guess what/who's tyre it is, but with a bit beefier side knobs would be the ticket and under 1000g.


Someday, some people will come to their senses and realize the weight of a thing (tire, rim, fork, and since Lynx is involved, dildo) is pretty far down the list. Ride quality is far more important, as are traction and durability.

How do I know this? Aside from personal experience, just look at all of the former weight weenies running 1400g fatbike tires and raving about how great they are.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Damn.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

mikesee,

have you had much time on the chupacabra? if so whats your take?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

mikesee said:


> Someday, some people will come to their senses and realize the weight of a thing (tire, rim, fork, and since Lynx is involved, dildo) is pretty far down the list. Ride quality is far more important, as are traction and durability.
> 
> How do I know this? Aside from personal experience, just look at all of the former weight weenies running 1400g fatbike tires and raving about how great they are.


I might suggest a caveat: SS in tech terrain- tire/rim weight matters. Maybe it's just that I'm an old fart, but getting a pair of 1400gm 29er tires moving from a standstill is like pulling tree stumps. But then, IMHO, as the volume grows the tread pattern is increasingly irrelevant, so fantastic, sub-1kg 29+ tires is really not a problem. Chupa looks like an early nominee there.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Exactly, those huge knobs are where the weights at and as SVO said, as the tyre width increases, the need for so much knob decreases - for the avg human being like myself, not everyone can be a stud like you mike  I've found that and people have said that when I let them ride my bike with a 29+, they were amazed at how much traction it gave compared to much knobbier tyres they normally run. Chronicle in an EXO casing is around 900g, so absolutely no reason why a 2.7" tyre with some knobs, should be over 1000 grams, except maybe to please the real knarcvnts like yourself.



seat_boy said:


> I think the first company that makes a 29 x 2.6~2.7" tire will be in for a lot of business.





mikesee said:


> Someday, some people will come to their senses and realize the weight of a thing (tire, rim, fork, and since Lynx is involved, dildo) is pretty far down the list. Ride quality is far more important, as are traction and durability.
> 
> How do I know this? Aside from personal experience, just look at all of the former weight weenies running 1400g fatbike tires and raving about how great they are.





SVO said:


> I might suggest a caveat: SS in tech terrain- tire/rim weight matters. Maybe it's just that I'm an old fart, but getting a pair of 1400gm 29er tires moving from a standstill is like pulling tree stumps. But then, IMHO, as the volume grows the tread pattern is increasingly irrelevant, so fantastic, sub-1kg 29+ tires is really not a problem. Chupa looks like an early nominee there.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

LyNx said:


> they were amazed at how much traction it gave compared to much knobbier tyres they normally run.


Following that line of logic, we'd all be fine with slicks, and the Knards that _everyone_ is pleased with* would be overkill.

*Not.



LyNx said:


> Chronicle in an EXO casing is around 900g, so absolutely no reason why a 2.7" tyre with some knobs, should be over 1000 grams


No reason except casing durability. Build a bigger tire, with better traction, and people will ride faster. Faster into tech = bigger consequences for mistakes. No free lunch.

Besides, Chronicle is virtually knobless. It's fine and fun for light XC riding--basically places where you don't need (and there is no benefit to) 29+. Take it to a real trail and the limitations become apparent quickly. Even to a clueless noob like you.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Coleman22 said:


> mikesee,
> 
> have you had much time on the chupacabra? if so whats your take?


I like it a lot as a rear tire. I prefer something with big meaty edge knobs up front, and it doesn't quite cut it for me in that department.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

mikesee said:


> I like it a lot as a rear tire. I prefer something with big meaty edge knobs up front, and it doesn't quite cut it for me in that department.


yep seems like the dirt wizard will be a good front tire for that type of combo. that makes sense.....


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Coleman22 said:


> yep seems like the dirt wizard will be a good front tire for that type of combo. that makes sense.....


Agreed. I run the DW up front 100% of the time, and then the DW and Chupa split duties out back about evenly, depending on where I'm going, when, and with whom.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

What about size? Specifically, I'm wondering if there will be any problems sticking either tire in a Fox 34. Will clearance be comparable to a Knard?


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## Jlee197853 (Mar 15, 2004)

savo said:


> agree.
> looks like the Trax Fatty 29x3 measures 2.8" though.


I have one mounted on a Velocity Blunt 35. 2.75". Probably be closer to 3" on a wider rim.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Agreed. I run the DW up front 100% of the time, and then the DW and Chupa split duties out back about evenly, depending on where I'm going, when, and with whom.


So have you ditched the Chronicles? I was under the impression that you liked them a lot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Know, but we all know how the Dissent worked out for WTB, bet they were glad they listened to those who were pushing for it because it suited _their_ riding, which is about 5-10% of the 29er riders around the world and others do in fact not need that much rubber or weight.

That secret tyre you posted, that sure looks the deal to me, not super huge knobs, but big enough, well spaced, bet the casing is damn decent and tough, only thing I would like to see changed is about 10-15% bigger side knobs and weight would still be under 1150g I bet.

Not everyone's idea of ride harder is ride faster, some enjoy slow tech of the DH or UH variety, some just like to take their time (guessing about 60% of riders) and enjoy the trails.

As to sidewall durability - while you seem to think that your rocks are knar as fvck, I've ridden up in CO and I encountered nothing that can hold a candle to our coral rocks, they just slice and chew up $hit tyres/casings and I've yet to have any issues, with any Maxxis EXO casing tyre down here or any of the cheaper CST offerings I've tried and they both have reasonable weights to their tyres for their respective markets.



mikesee said:


> Following that line of logic, we'd all be fine with slicks, and the Knards that _everyone_ is pleased with* would be overkill.
> 
> *Not.
> 
> ...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

LyNx said:


> Know, but we all know how the Dissent worked out for WTB, bet they were glad they listened to those who were pushing for it because it suited _their_ riding, which is about 5-10% of the 29er riders around the world and others do in fact not need that much rubber or weight.
> 
> That secret tyre you posted, that sure looks the deal to me, not super huge knobs, but big enough, well spaced, bet the casing is damn decent and tough, only thing I would like to see changed is about 10-15% bigger side knobs and weight would still be under 1150g I bet.
> 
> ...


I've re-read this 3 times now and the only thing I can conclude is that I have no idea what you're talking about.

You sure seem convinced of whatever it is though. And since perception is reality, it _must_ be true.

/end thread drift.


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## C.P. (Sep 17, 2005)

agree^^^ it has taken like 5-8+ years for the many of the masses to catch up (whether it be skills, or just riding experience improving) to the fact that a big volume, meaty tire with sidewall that can hold up to tech/features/etc will never let you down. I dunno, but having to regularly change a pinch flat from casing/tech stuff, just to save 3-500 gms is just not my cuppa tea...yes, even on my SS.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I've re-read this 3 times now and the only thing I can conclude is that I have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> You sure seem convinced of whatever it is though. And since perception is reality, it _must_ be true.
> 
> /end thread drift.


I think what LyNx is trying to say is that not everyone wants to ride chunky trails at warp speed. Some people want to run these 3" tires for the added small bump absorption and comfort.

I've been running 120 tpi knards with their paper thin sidewalls for over a year and have had exactly one flat, when running tubes on a previous wheelset. My east coast trails have plenty of rocks, roots, etc, but speeds are usually due to my rigid bike as well as the tight twisty nature of the trails. I will not be running any tires that weigh 1400g, that's for sure!


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

Picked up a set of chupacabras today. Gonna get them setup tubeless mañana and will report back after I get some riding in.


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## benitosbro (Mar 7, 2013)

Anyone that has set up Bontrager Chupacabras tubeless: did you have to use a tube to set the beads before adding sealant?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

benitosbro said:


> Anyone that has set up Bontrager Chupacabras tubeless: did you have to use a tube to set the beads before adding sealant?


Nope, didn't need to use a tube, but I did hedge my bets and ensure the beads were seated before I pushed sealant in through the valve.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Mikesee, do you know how these compare size wise to the knard. Especially the DW. (Wondering if I have more arch grinding in my future)


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## Budmovin (Aug 4, 2011)

Not really sure where to ask this: How much more plush are the 29 x 3.0 tires than Ardent 2.4's? I love running a full rigid setup, but my wrist can't take the beating with an Ardent due to an old snowboarding accident. I can run a full rigid fat-bike fine, but these 31 inch in diameter tires seem like a match made in heaven.

Yeah I know I'll have to try it for myself to truly see, but just curious what others think on this front.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I tried the cheap Innova out on the front of my rigid Inbred and it is like night and day compared to even a fat Geax Gato. It rolled over everything and really cut the bumps and chatter. Traction was insane and I keep looking for stuff to go over and jumps to hit. Now I just need one in the back and wider rims. For $35, everyone should test one out.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I totally agree with SS, night and day for me, could increase the speed at which I attacked stuff and not have to worry about taking the beating on my arms and wrists, was actually surprised at how little beat up I felt after the first ride. As Hack said, for the price of that tyre, well worth giving it a try and like him, trying to figure a way to get some of that on the rear of my KM as well - prob go 650B+.



SS Hack said:


> I tried the cheap Innova out on the front of my rigid Inbred and it is like night and day compared to even a fat Geax Gato. It rolled over everything and really cut the bumps and chatter. Traction was insane and I keep looking for stuff to go over and jumps to hit. Now I just need one in the back and wider rims. For $35, everyone should test one out.
> 
> 
> Budmovin said:
> ...


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Budmovin said:


> Not really sure where to ask this: How much more plush are the 29 x 3.0 tires than Ardent 2.4's? I love running a full rigid setup, but my wrist can't take the beating with an Ardent due to an old snowboarding accident. I can run a full rigid fat-bike fine, but these 31 inch in diameter tires seem like a match made in heaven.
> 
> Yeah I know I'll have to try it for myself to truly see, but just curious what others think on this front.


No comparison. The 29x3" tires are much plusher and a different riding experience due to the traction and greater rollover.

It won't make your rigid feel like suspension, but it will take some of the edge off.


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## Puzman (Apr 1, 2004)

Just posted this in the fat bike forum, but thought I'd try here as well:

I have a 2013 Santa Cruz Superlight 29er with a Fox CTD 120mm x 32 Fork. I'm currently running Ardents 2.4 F and 2.2 R, but I'm intrigued by the idea of running a bigger meatier tire up front without having to buy a new bike or fork. Rims are 24mm (Black Flags). 

So... my question is will any of the currently available 29x3.0 tires fit up front *without modifying my fork*? If you've been able to get one of these to work on a Fox 120 x 32, what rim were you using? 

- Surly Knard
- Maxxis Chronicle
- Bontrager Chupacabra
- Panaracer Fat B Nimble
- V-Rubber Traxx 

If none of those will fit, what's the biggest tire that I could get away with? 

Also, any idea what is the biggest rear tire that will fit? I've used a Racing Ralph 2.4 in back, but there was some rub on cornering...


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

Puzman said:


> Just posted this in the fat bike forum, but thought I'd try here as well:
> 
> I have a 2013 Santa Cruz Superlight 29er with a Fox CTD 120mm x 32 Fork. I'm currently running Ardents 2.4 F and 2.2 R, but I'm intrigued by the idea of running a bigger meatier tire up front without having to buy a new bike or fork. Rims are 24mm (Black Flags).
> 
> ...


have you considered the coming 27.5+ format? not sure about what options there are currently but i contacted WTB about it and they are in the process of compiling a list of 29er frames that are compatible. the guy i emailed very helpful and offered to research the exact dimensions of the frame i was looking at to see if it would fit.


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## Puzman (Apr 1, 2004)

From what I've read, the WTB Trailblazer isn't much different from the Ardent 2.4 in width... and will lower the wheels (and BB height) as well


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm pretty sure all of them would fit on a 23mm rim. I've run a Vee Trax Fatty and Gravity Vidar in a Fox 32 100 and a Fox 34 130 without issue on 50mm rims.


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Hmmm...Vittoria Bomboloni 29x3.0, looks similar to some of the unnamed tires posted in this thread.








https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10914801_10152685061647807_5638768942615227407_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

Here's a pic of the Chupacabra on the left compared to the innova Gravity. Although the gravity's are just a little narrower, if they end up wearing well, I'm gonna have a hard time spending almost 3x's the amount for the chupas. I'm running the gravity up front.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tallguylikacurry said:


> Here's a pic of the Chupacabra on the left compared to the innova Gravity. Although the gravity's are just a little narrower, if they end up wearing well, I'm gonna have a hard time spending almost 3x's the amount for the chupas. I'm running the gravity up front.


Do you have any calipers to measure the widths? The Chupa looks quite a bit wider.

What's the comparison between the rubber compounds and casings for both tires?


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

vikb said:


> Do you have any calipers to measure the widths? The Chupa looks quite a bit wider.
> 
> What's the comparison between the rubber compounds and casings for both tires?


I did measure em with calipers, however I'm up in the mountains this weekend. Will post those measurements on Monday.


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## benitosbro (Mar 7, 2013)

I just mounted up my Bontrager Chupacabras on Wednesday, and I have to say, I am so much more impressed with them than the alternatives currently. These tires are replacing a set of Surly Knards (120tpi) that I had set up tubeless- which worked horribly I might add. The Surly tires were okay for traction and float, but because they were not intended for tubeless operation, the beads always seeped sealant constantly. Let me say now that I am a trained mechanic that actively works in a shop, so I do know how to set up a tire. I run Nextie Jungle Fox rims, and they make tubeless easy. I was able to inflate the Chupacabras without first using a tube, and once they snapped in place, I haven't spotted a single drop of sealant leaking. The Chupacabras saved me a half a pound, and look and feel much higher quality than the Knards and Gravity Vidar. After riding them on and off road, I think the Chupacabras are well worth the additional money if you're going to set your tires up tubeless. I run other Bontrager tires, and will say that they hold up very well and wear great. 

Shameless plug for Mikesee- he builds up sick wheels (including my Jungle Foxes), and my 29+ wheelset is almost as light as my standard set of 29 Derby's.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tallguylikacurry said:


> I did measure em with calipers, however I'm up in the mountains this weekend. Will post those measurements on Monday.


Thanks :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

benitosbro said:


> I just mounted up my Bontrager Chupacabras on Wednesday, and I have to say, I am so much more impressed with them than the alternatives currently. These tires are replacing a set of Surly Knards (120tpi) that I had set up tubeless- which worked horribly I might add. The Surly tires were okay for traction and float, but because they were not intended for tubeless operation, the beads always seeped sealant constantly. Let me say now that I am a trained mechanic that actively works in a shop, so I do know how to set up a tire. .


I've setup Knards [120tpi] on Rabbit Holes with a split tube. 100% reliable and they hardly leak air. Easy to setup as well.


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## benitosbro (Mar 7, 2013)

vikb said:


> I've setup Knards [120tpi] on Rabbit Holes with a split tube. 100% reliable and they hardly leak air. Easy to setup as well.


I just threw sealant in them on my tubeless ready rims and went to town with an air compressor (no split tube necessary with the Nextie rims, but if I was using Rabbit holes or Dually rims I could see that being the only good option). The Knards were just super loose on the Jungle Fox, even with the built-in rim bead shelves. I'm sure the split tube would have filled in some of the gap, but not what I was willing to do in my shop. I am happy that Bontrager released their tires to be tubeless ready as the beads fit up much nicer with a stronger feeling sidewall. I'm glad to see other manufacturers now doing the same thing, just a shame that it has taken so long to get them released. Part of Trek's trouble happened at the ports with labor slowdowns coming into the country- I wonder if Maxxis is experiencing a similar scenario.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

Just got my first ride on the chupacabras. It's a massive difference between the 27tpi knard. Riding in typical Austin rocky,loose, punchy technical climbs it was night and day. Never had any rear tire slippage. The grip was amazng. 

Setup tubeless and was probably running 12 front and 14 psi rear. 

I must say the jump in performance for those conditions was huge. Well worth the price.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

benitosbro said:


> I just threw sealant in them on my tubeless ready rims and went to town with an air compressor (no split tube necessary with the Nextie rims, but if I was using Rabbit holes or Dually rims I could see that being the only good option). The Knards were just super loose on the Jungle Fox, even with the built-in rim bead shelves. I'm sure the split tube would have filled in some of the gap, but not what I was willing to do in my shop. I am happy that Bontrager released their tires to be tubeless ready as the beads fit up much nicer with a stronger feeling sidewall. I'm glad to see other manufacturers now doing the same thing, just a shame that it has taken so long to get them released. Part of Trek's trouble happened at the ports with labor slowdowns coming into the country- I wonder if Maxxis is experiencing a similar scenario.


Interesting you had issues with the 120tpi Knard and Jungle Fox rims. I am running the same setup (also built by MikeC) and it has been 100% trouble free. The Knards had been used previously and I had to put a tube in to get the first bead to seat, but after that it was trouble free with a floor pump. Unseat one bead, remove tube, install tubeless valve, inflate with floor pump to seat second bead, remove valve core and add sealant, re-inflate. I've had zero seeping from the tire or tire/rim interface.

Maybe this just shows how inconsistent the Surly tires are! I will say that when my Knards wear out, the Chupacabra's are at the top of my list right now.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

a guy should never have to wear his knards out. work 'em out, yes.


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

Well if you were looking for another reason throw some chupas on your rig...http://www.people.com/article/johnny-depp-mortdecai-chupacabra


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

have either of you guys above/anybody else run the chupas and the vidar? I'm considering grabbing a set of vidars to replace/upgrade/whatever my knards, but I want to make sure that traction is the priority....tread patterns on both are similar, and more aggressive, and that sounds just right.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

sandwich said:


> have either of you guys above/anybody else run the chupas and the vidar? I'm considering grabbing a set of vidars to replace/upgrade/whatever my knards, but I want to make sure that traction is the priority....tread patterns on both are similar, and more aggressive, and that sounds just right.


Yeah, I'd say it's the best combo available to us common folk:thumbsup:


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

ah, so my question is do you prefer one over the other? Is there a reason for the chupa out back and the vidar up front, vs. the other way around or vidar on both?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Yeah, the Chupa is a smaller knobbed, closer spaced, faster rolling tire that has great climbing and braking grip, which I prefer for the rear. The Vidar is a bigger knobbed, wider spaced, more aggressive cornering knobs that I prefer on the front. Haven't tried either one in the opposite position you see pictured, so I could tell you how they perform that way.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

i wondering how durable the vidar is on super sharp rocky terrain. the chupacabras have held up well on some nasty trails around austin so far. 

i think i read that the vidars had very thin sidewalls but havent read about any failure so far.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Coleman22 said:


> i wondering how durable the vidar is on super sharp rocky terrain. the chupacabras have held up well on some nasty trails around austin so far.
> 
> i think i read that the vidars had very thin sidewalls but havent read about any failure so far.


Sidewalls are about average compared to regular 29er tires that don't weigh a ton. Not sure they can handle sharp rocks - but for a third the price they are worth a try.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

MTB Pilot said:


> Yeah, the Chupa is a smaller knobbed, closer spaced, faster rolling tire that has great climbing and braking grip, which I prefer for the rear. The Vidar is a bigger knobbed, wider spaced, more aggressive cornering knobs that I prefer on the front. Haven't tried either one in the opposite position you see pictured, so I could tell you how they perform that way.


thank you kindly. Appreciate the feedback...I can't afford both! Maybe a vidar on the front and a knard on the back for me...


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

sandwich said:


> thank you kindly. Appreciate the feedback...I can't afford both! Maybe a vidar on the front and a knard on the back for me...


if i was you i would definitely save up for a rear chupa. it made a massive difference on my krampus. huge.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

If a gentleman wants to charge me $120 for a tire I'm going to expect that first we have dinner and foreplay.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

sounds like you may need some premium rubber for protection on that purchase so make sure you get the item in hand first.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Agreed. Well in hand and no messy fluid leaks. Bontrager does translate as "good holder", no?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

vikb said:


> I've setup Knards [120tpi] on Rabbit Holes with a split tube. 100% reliable and they hardly leak air. Easy to setup as well.


Yup. +1 here....


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

The Maxxis Chronicle EXO is now available at AEBikes.com


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

MTB Pilot said:


> Yeah, I'd say it's the best combo available to us common folk:thumbsup:


NICE!!! 
I'd like to see the front clearance


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Picking up a Krampus tonight. I plan on going tubeless, and new tires as my first change. I have ordered a Chupacabra. 
I can't find the Chronicle anywhere. Are they already sold out? If so what options do I have other than a Knard? I see mention of the Vidar, but I can't find any other info on it.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

Captain_America1976 said:


> Picking up a Krampus tonight. I plan on going tubeless, and new tires as my first change. I have ordered a Chupacabra.
> I can't find the Chronicle anywhere. Are they already sold out? If so what options do I have other than a Knard? I see mention of the Vidar, but I can't find any other info on it.


Check Amazon Innova 29 x 3 $34.95 plus shipping. I don't know if it can be setup tubeless. Maybe someone else has experience??


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Ralph said:


> Check Amazon Innova 29 x 3 $34.95 plus shipping. I don't know if it can be setup tubeless. Maybe someone else has experience??


Any other options? I don't really want wire bead or a tire that can't be run tubeless.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Ralph said:


> Check Amazon Innova 29 x 3 $34.95 plus shipping. I don't know if it can be setup tubeless. Maybe someone else has experience??


Got some and they seem like they'd work fine on Stan's - I might try later if I get some Hugo's. I thought I saw a post about a successful setup.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Why not just start with what you have? The Knard is a surprisingly good tire. I've been running them for over a year with great results. Rims are the more important part for a good tubeless setup. I'm assuming you have Rabbit Hole rims, which can work fine, but may need some fiddling with Gorilla tape or a split tube. I would suggest try a split tube tubeless setup with your current tires and rims, and start saving for a new set of wheels or rims. I would suggest either Stan's Hugo or WTB Scraper for aluminum rims, or Nextie for Carbon.

Edit: With a good tubeless rim, pretty much any tire can be run tubeless. I'm running Nextie 50mm rims with 120tpi Knards(which have paper thin sidewalls and loose beads), and it's been perfect.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

But if you have to have a Chronicle, Bikeman has them in stock.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

bikeny said:


> But if you have to have a Chronicle, Bikeman has them in stock.


For $99 and using sealant voids the warrantee ...


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Ralph said:


> Check Amazon Innova 29 x 3 $34.95 plus shipping. I don't know if it can be setup tubeless. Maybe someone else has experience??


I am running one tubeless. Not as easy as the Chupacabra to set up, but once I got it seated it has been fine.

(Using Nextie jungle fox rims, fwiw)


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I bet those Innova cheapies setup with a mini pump on Hugo's. If anything they seem better than Knards (bigger tread) for 1/3 the cost.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Getting the gravitys to seat the bead is the hardest part. Ive been running mine tubeless with stans for a while. i probably wouldnt attemp to run them tubeless on duallys or rabbit holes though. Mine are setup on nexties that have a nice bead locking lip. IMO the gravity performs like a 120 dollar tire should at fraction of the cost. I have yet to ride the chupalupas but have friends on them that report they awsome And they are 825-875g TR casings.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Did the Innova wallow in the center channel? They might work better on the less fancy Hugo's since they have a special center that stops wallowing.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to order a Chronicle from Bikeman. 
Side note: Do any bikeman coupon codes exist?


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## scciowa (Oct 26, 2005)

*Chupacabra on Ibis 941*

I've got about a 100 singletrack miles on Chupacabras mounted tubeless on Ibis 941 rims. Upon initial mount, I used a floor pump to inflate (no Stans, soap or anything). One held virtually all air overnight, the other was a little soft--that said, never had a rim/tire combo do this (usually using a compressor at minimum). Added the little trail bottle of Stans to each (2oz?) and they've been good to go for the past few weeks. I don't have any experience with Knards or any of the other 29+ offerings but I will say I'm pleased with the traction, weight and durability (so far) of these tires (I've run 2.2ish Maxxis, Contis and Kendas on my other mountain bikes). Sharp rocks and goatheads are the norm where I ride and over the limited mileage so far, these tires are holding up well. You've probably read of the nightmare experiences of the 120tpi Knards--my friends that have ridden them have given up--slicing sidewalls on about every other ride. I've been slowly lowering the tire pressure on the Chupas and I think I've find the lower limit--using skc digital gauge I just rode with 8.5psi rear and 9 in the front and on some fast rock gardens I think I compressed the rear to the rim. Hook up has been great with anything south of 14psi so I'm going to run 10-12 psi for a while and see how that goes. One of the rides I do has a sand doubletrack section--my regular mtbs get squirrely in there but the 29+ just motors through. FWIW I go about 175 and haven't been riding with any water or tools or camel back or anything (been doing <20 mile rides so far).


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

How is the Chupa as a front tire? Specifically for hardpack. 

Agree with silver's comments on the Innova. It was a pain to get the bead seated the first time (I am also running Nextie rims), but once set up the tire has been great.


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## scciowa (Oct 26, 2005)

I was a little disappointed with traction/hookup initially with the Chupas, including on hardpack, but I now write that off to over-inflation(I started with 18psi on my very first rides and kept lowering from there). Once I got below 14psi, traction on hard, loose, rooty, and rocky has been very good. I'm riding fully rigid and traction on all terrain is as good or better than my f/s or hartdail bike with any combination of rubber.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

The gravitys wire bead has to be straightened back out after being packed and shipped all figure 8 style. Getting it straight enough for the compressor to inflate it took some time. I will say that the deep chanel of the nextie probably didnt help. I can see where they would inflate easier with hugos having that center box section to keep the beads apart. I have unmounted and remounted them since and its been a lot easier with all the kinks gone from the beads. lots of thick soapy water on the bead and rim help a lot. With the nexties and rims like derbys once the bead seats your set.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

LyNx said:


> Well that's good of you, the more info people share, the more informed we'll all be. My measurements were just height increase over a 2.4" Ardent and both 29+ tyres I have are about 1cm taller,but do fit in my newer 2014 F34 and with much more clearance in the older 2012 F34. My roll-out for them is 2355 loaded on Velocity45 rim on the front at around 15 PSI. Very curious why you'd put a 2.4" tyre on such a narrow rim, it must ride like crap, lots of tyre roll if you run decent pressures :???:


30MM Inner Width is a wider rim than most. This 3" Vidar comes stock on a Motobecane 29+ and the rim is 38MM outer with 32MM inner width. A 2.4 would be narrow if anything on a wide rim like this. Probably squarish(?). What say you OP

EDIT: Realized you meant 2.4 on 19mm inner as being narrow.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, I just happened to decide to give this a go over last week and this weekend. First mounted a 2.25" Smorgasbord onto the Dually45, casing grew 4mm and the change in how the tyre handle for the better was AMAZING, had only ever run this tyre once on the front and didn't like how it performed, but worked very well as a rear - will say the 45mm OD/39mm ID rim was a bit much for the 2.25", casing was almost in line with the rim, so no rim protection from the tyre, think maybe a 35-40mm rim would work better for this size. 
Then I threw the 2.4" Chunky Monkey on the Dually45, casing grew about 3.5mm and again, so much support, no tyre roll, just positive feel and steering from this combo - width on the rim was almost perfect, was protected from strikes by the tyre, I would run between40-45mm with this size tyre.
After my little experiment I just re-mounted a 29+ onto the Dually and have come to the conclusion that these tyres require rims a minimum of 50mm to really appreciate the benefits they have to offer, even the 45mm Dually makes it look like the 2.4" looks on the i25 rim. Two pics attached of Chunky Monkey's mounted on the Dually45 and on the WTB i25.



diylighter said:


> 30MM Inner Width is a wider rim than most. This 3" Vidar comes stock on a Motobecane 29+ and the rim is 38MM outer with 32MM inner width. A 2.4 would be narrow if anything on a wide rim like this. Probably squarish(?). What say you OP


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

diylighter said:


> 30MM Inner Width is a wider rim than most. This 3" Vidar comes stock on a Motobecane 29+ and the rim is 38MM outer with 32MM inner width. A 2.4 would be narrow if anything on a wide rim like this. Probably squarish(?). What say you OP


BD put those rims on because that's what they found cheap - it works but a wider rim would be better.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

glad to hear your thoughts on the on one tires, lynx. i have a smorg trail and chunky enduro sitting here for months, but haven't mounted them up to my dually's yet as winter is here.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

Great to know that my rims will fit some more standard 29er tires (like the chunky monkeys) without making them overly squarish and losing traction when leaned over.
I have been looking into some Schwalbe Ice Spikers, but they were 2.25 max and I was concerned that a 32MM inner would be too wide. 

Thoughts?


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

40mm nextie with a 27tpi Knard, tubed @ 20 psi
For you 29+ guys looking for a light, fast, big rim this ought to do it.























:thumbsup:


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

Deleted, wrong thread.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Worldskip, you really running 20 psi? Maybe ride in very rocky area? Those 27 Knards
w/tubes are super heavy duty. Trying to preserve those rims?


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

Heck no, that thing would be like a basketball, it was just a mock up for the interweb. Currently I have a Bonty XR2 Team issue on the wheel, it's laced as a rear so knard won't fit on my Jones.
More info here.
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/nextie-40mm-carbon-29er-rim-pictures-949926.html


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I often run 20 psi rear 18 psi front in my krampus; I'll drop it a little for the slipperiest conditions. I still damage the sidewalls of my tires and eventually tubeless won't hold anymore. I've gone through 2 27 tpi tires and 4 120 tpi tires in the last 2 years. Always sidewall failure at the bead causes tubeless to fail. I'll run tubes for a bit, but with the 120 tpi tires, when these tires are a couple of months old, they let in thorns easily. I ran the 27 tpi tires with tubes for many miles and wore the tread nearly flat in the middle.

Back when i rode 29x2, I put 45 psi in my tires and still had the same type of sidewall damage on a regular basis.

On a positive note, my current 27 tpi tires have had no problems burping.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

How much do you weigh geared to ride PG? That's some serious damage unless you're a big guy, can't say I've heard of many with those sorts of complaints. I haven't been using my 29+ for long, only on the front, but found that down around 15PSI is where I felt safe in case of a hard hit not hitting the rim and I only weigh about 180lbs geared to ride. If I get some wider rims than the Dually45s, I might try lower and see how it goes, but for right now happy with my pumps 15PSI.



PretendGentleman said:


> I often run 20 psi rear 18 psi front in my krampus; I'll drop it a little for the slipperiest conditions. I still damage the sidewalls of my tires and eventually tubeless won't hold anymore. I've gone through 2 27 tpi tires and 4 120 tpi tires in the last 2 years. Always sidewall failure at the bead causes tubeless to fail. I'll run tubes for a bit, but with the 120 tpi tires, when these tires are a couple of months old, they let in thorns easily. I ran the 27 tpi tires with tubes for many miles and wore the tread nearly flat in the middle.
> 
> Back when i rode 29x2, I put 45 psi in my tires and still had the same type of sidewall damage on a regular basis.
> 
> On a positive note, my current 27 tpi tires have had no problems burping.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm like 230, been running 12.5 rear and 11.5 front on chupacabra haven't ridden in rocky area yet. Don't see how I would even get a rim strike on the front. 20/18 seems crazy.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Hello Everyone, just subscribing to this thread (one of only two in this forum presently) and am wondering if the OP or someone else (preferable on the first page) who’s current on the 29+ tire choices and the thread’s consensus was interested in organizing the info so that people joining in could quickly get the facts. I appreciate everyone’s input but having to sift through 25 pages of info is very time consuming esp. for someone like me who doesn’t have internet at home.
I think these forums are so crucial for getting information, but not very well organized at all.
From what I’ve read there seems to be a consensus that the Innova Vidar makes a great front tire and the Knard’s secondary and outer knobs are too short for great cornering traction. I have Knards front and back and I agree with that although I am loving the 29+ platform and think it could be even better with great tires. With that said, I just ordered a Vidar for the front and am looking forward to trying it out and am hoping it really is a Kevlar bead. Why anyone would advertise wire when it was Kevlar is beyond dumb in the realm of dumbass. When I wear out the Knards I will be looking for another rear to try out which at this point looks like it may be a Chupa. I’ve been using the Bonty 29-4 on the front of my 29ers and that tire friggin’ rocks!
I’ve also read a few comments on hopes of someone making a 27.5” x 3 tire. Personally I think that size would make an awesome full suspension bike and if someone made one of those I would have a hard time resisting. On that note, although I love the Krampus, it is pretty porky and am wondering what other choices there are in 29+ frames. Carbon would be awesome!


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

The Vider is really wire bead, it weighs 955 grams and is a surprisingly good tire. It's made by the company that makes the Knard. It's worth tiring for $35. Do it.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> wondering what other choices there are in 29+ frames. Carbon would be awesome!


Decent list of 29+ frames and tire options in this thread. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=884845


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> Hmmm...Vittoria Bomboloni 29x3.0, looks similar to some of the unnamed tires posted in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is the RS1 work with 29+? Do you need to limit travel?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

> Vittoria
> While 27.5+ tires are coming down the line (for bikes that don't even exist) the 29+ market continues to grow, with Vittoria joining the fun with its new Bomboloni tires. They come with a folding, tubeless-ready bead and will be joined by a 26×4.0 version when they go on sale this summer. No word yet on pricing, Vittoria said.


http://dirtragmag.com/frostbike-gallery-and-tech-roundup-part-2/


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I just ordered the innova gravity tire, I'll try it on a flow ex rim. right now I'm running DHF II's which are good in the sand/rock mix we have here. The innova weighs less than the 2.5 DHF, so that would be great if if fits my bike. 

I'm riding a Banshee Prime, and the 2.5 tires seem like they have plenty of room for more tire.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

unrooted said:


> I just ordered the innova gravity tire, I'll try it on a flow ex rim. right now I'm running DHF II's which are good in the sand/rock mix we have here. The innova weighs less than the 2.5 DHF, so that would be great if if fits my bike.
> 
> I'm riding a Banshee Prime, and the 2.5 tires seem like they have plenty of room for more tire.


Be prepared to buy another frame - these things are huge!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Considering that a 29+ Chronicle fits into the Prime/Phantom frames no problem, I hardly doubt he'll have any issues with this tyre 



SS Hack said:


> Be prepared to buy another frame - these things are huge!


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> Be prepared to buy another frame - these things are huge!


I was able to fit a Knard in my Phantom. So I think the Innova would work as it is slightly narrower. Unrooted may need to invest in a set of the 650b dropouts to make it work.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=11785896


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

LyNx said:


> Considering that a 29+ Chronicle fits into the Prime/Phantom frames no problem, I hardly doubt he'll have any issues with this tyre


it may fit; but will it rub under hard use? i'd say with that little clearance probably... but i hope I am wrong for the OP's sake.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

How much are the dropouts? Where did you get them? Jenson shows them for $100.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Max - I have approx 4 mm clearance on the chain stays in my setup. No real ride time yet so see how it does in real world conditions. With an Innova Vidar it would have even more clearance. Keep in mind this is with 35mm derby rims. I shoved my Krampus wheel in there (Nextie jungle fox rims + Chupacabra). It fit, but with about a nanometer of clearance on the stays. 

Unrooted - I just got mine from Jenson. I had a 15% off code so they were $85. I bet Chad at Red Barn could beat that. (I got my Prime from Chad a few years ago. )


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I have a Knard 29 x 3 120tpi on the front of my rigid SS. Was thinking of switching to a 27tpi. I saw a few posts of people using both and some opinions. I weigh about 240 and currently running a tube in the front just cause I dont trust the way the 120 sidewalls feel. I have had other issues with normal size 29er tires 2.2, 2.4 running tubeless as well. Is weight that much of a factor on the sidewall that im better off going with the 27tpi? Also do you think it would be stiff enough then to run tubeless? Mounted on Velocity blunt sl. Thanks.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

mo rubber = mo stiffer. idk about tubeless cause i change tires as often as i change my undies, once a week at best. definitely go w/ a wider rim with a tire of that width


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

AOK said:


> "(for bikes that don't even exist)"
> Frostbike gallery and tech roundup, Part 2


But they do. They're called 29ers.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

r1Gel said:


> But they do. They're called 29ers.


I doubt true size 27.5+ will fit many 29er frames. As we know the WTB is undersized like everything they make.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I will wager that you're not right on that one  


SS Hack said:


> I doubt true size 27.5+ will fit many 29er frames. As we know the WTB is undersized like everything they make.


https://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes/paradox-updated-2012-a-736851-22.html#post11798446


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

LyNx said:


> I will wager that you're not right on that one
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes/paradox-updated-2012-a-736851-22.html#post11798446


Not bad. Which tire is that and what does it measure? I'd love to slap some on a bike - but the WTB is undersized and most of the images I've seen of other tires have signs that read - stay out the mud or lockup. 2mm of clearance won't work for me.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

SS Hack said:


> I doubt true size 27.5+ will fit many 29er frames. As we know the WTB is undersized like everything they make.


Your definition of "true" is misguided IMHO. It is reasonable to call anything larger than 2.4" plus-sized, not just 3.0".


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

SVO said:


> Your definition of "true" is misguided IMHO. It is reasonable to call anything larger than 2.4" plus-sized, not just 3.0".


Most tires seem undersized, so I guess I'm looking for something that makes more than an incremental difference. I think we'll see some interesting choices soon. I would like to see bigger 29er tires that could be used on normal bikes with good clearance or 27+ tires that don't drop the BB like the WTB.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Found this.http://http://shop.veetireco.com/Vee-Tire-Co-Crown-R-29x3-00-Tire-p/ctytk-crwnr2.htm
Looks interesting.
This looks even better,http://http://shop.veetireco.com/Vee-Tire-Co-Crown-Gem-29x3-00-Tire-p/ctytk-crwng2.htm but I am wondering about this many 29" x 3" tires.
Another?Vee Tire Co. Crown F 29x3.00 Tire
Still want a Dirt Wizard or On One to make a 3" though.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Definitely some aggressive tread there, Not bad price, but I bet they are heavy. If you want a beefy tire there you go.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

finally something that appears to be aggressive, but that tread looks weird in the fact that there are too many intermediate knobs. only the last link you provided actually opened for me.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2015)

SVO said:


> Your definition of "true" is misguided IMHO. It is reasonable to call anything larger than 2.4" plus-sized, not just 3.0".


Why is that reasonable? Specifically, why is 2.5" "plus-sized" now?

You know, 2.1" is plus-sized compared to 2.0". Why not include that too?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

craigsj said:


> Why is that reasonable? Specifically, why is 2.5" "plus-sized" now?
> 
> You know, 2.1" is plus-sized compared to 2.0". Why not include that too?


They need to be bigger than that for me - especially when their price is the same as a car tire.


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

imho I'd say a 26+ tire would equal would be one that makes its circumference equal to or greater than the circumference of a 27.5 with a 2in tire. The same with 27.5+ to a 29x2. 26 goes fat when it is greater or equal to a 29X2.


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

I just reread that. does that make any sense at all. haha


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

fewg8 said:


> imho I'd say a 26+ tire would equal would be one that makes its circumference equal to or greater than the circumference of a 27.5 with a 2in tire. The same with 27.5+ to a 29x2. 26 goes fat when it is greater or equal to a 29X2.


The WTB is smaller in height to the typical 29er tire however.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Just mounted the Innova Gravity Vidar onto my Flow EX rims and rode it with 20psi. They barely fit, like maybe 2-3mm of space between the knobs and the arch of my Rock Shox Pike. I had to tear each of the little "hairs" from the tire. 

I think I could go down to 17 or so psi, the tires fit these rims really snugly, so I'm not scared of burping.

I have yet to try it on the back end of my Prime, but from what I can tell via the other posts on this thread they should, barely, fit. I will likely get the "27.5 dropouts" for the rear if I decide to make my bike a 29+. For now I'll be using a 2.5 DHF rear tire.

How much difference do you think it would make to have 35mm rims vs my 25?


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

After about an hour my tire is now 1mm or less from my fork arch. Dammit.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

unrooted said:


> After about an hour my tire is now 1mm or less from my fork arch. Dammit.


http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=11496694

I was able to run Knards on Derby rims in my Pike with a little dremel work.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

craigsj said:


> Why is that reasonable? Specifically, why is 2.5" "plus-sized" now?
> 
> You know, 2.1" is plus-sized compared to 2.0". Why not include that too?


Who cares what you want to call it. Another 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, etc. tire option is a good thing to have.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Whatever we call them, we need tires bigger than the current crop of normal tires and smaller than the 3.0 stuff that's coming out. Once you ride plus size tires, 2.2 feels down right sketchy - at least to me.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I'd be stoked on a 2.7" tire, or at least a 2.5 with a flatter profile


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Ive been riding with a knard 3" on the front of my rigid for a little while and just switched over to a Ra Ra 2.4 while Im getting a new front wheel built and that looks and feels like a road tire now. You aint kidding about sketchy. Wheels gonna be a Velocity blunt 35 rim, dt spokes and dt 350 hub. At least now I have a multi purpose front wheel. Run the Knard on it as well as "normal" 29er size tires.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2015)

GT87 said:


> Who cares what you want to call it. Another 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, etc. tire option is a good thing to have.


Just understand that calling anything bigger than 2.4" a "plus" tire renders the term meaningless. 2.5" existed before "plus" yet WTB calls a 2.5" tire a plus and mislabels it 2.8 in the process. Even more insulting is that it's clearly based on an existing product that IS labeled 2.5" and is not marketed as plus. It's shameful and exists because we tolerate it.

Truth in labelling is what's important, and a standard for consistent labelling of size would be a service to the market and to users. I created a thread on that recently and got exactly 0 replies. No one really cares.

I say stop referring to a "plus" size AT ALL and instead demand honest reporting. What truly constitutes a "plus" or "fat" format is the height of the tire anyway, not the width. That's why manufacturers will resist...it's easier to lie about a tire size when it's based on width.

If we had a system that (a) told us how wide to expect a tire to be on its intended rim (for clearance purposes), (b) told us what kind of rim it is intended to be paired with (a need that is coming), and (c) is objectively verifiable then THAT would a true service to the industry. This, it turns out, is trivially easy to accomplish.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

craigsj said:


> Why is that reasonable? Specifically, why is 2.5" "plus-sized" now?
> 
> You know, 2.1" is plus-sized compared to 2.0". Why not include that too?Just understand that calling anything bigger than 2.4" a "plus" tire renders the term meaningless. 2.5" existed before "plus" yet WTB calls a 2.5" tire a plus and mislabels it 2.8 in the process. Even more insulting is that it's clearly based on an existing product that IS labeled 2.5" and is not marketed as plus. It's shameful and exists because we tolerate it.
> 
> ...


Gee, profit-seeking companies sometimes exaggerate specs and performance- SHOCKER! Take a BMW and a GM car with supposedly the same power/weight ratio and the BMW will be far faster. That's EXACTLY what forums and magazines and blogs are for- get real world perspective. Yes, in a perfect (but highly regulated) world, but last I checked ours is not.

Bikeman stock for folding tire models by width:
2.25-37
2.30-13
2.35- 21
2.4- 12
All sizes above 2.4 COMBINED: 7

Pretty obvious that 2.4 is where conventional XC/Trail sizing stops for anyone paying attention, rather than being purely argumentative. Of course there are some 2.5 DH tires, but they are not suited to this application.

Just because YOU want more 3.0 tires for YOUR application does not mean that any other approach, like intermediate plus-sizes, is somehow illegitimate. Reminds me of my young son's approach to wanting things.


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

I have been running my rigid Gnarvester with a Maxxis Chronicle up front and a 120 tpi Knard out back, both on Velocity P35 rims. I have been pretty happy with this combo apart from a bit of lack of grip on the back. I have mostly been riding moderately technical XC but am in the process of setting the bike up for a week of trail riding with lots of climbing and lots more tech descending on loamy and rocky alpine trails. I am adding some MRP Stage forks and am thinking about ordering a Chupacabra for the back but not having ridden one of these before I am looking for advice from some who have experience on all of these tire combos. 

I guess my options are:
1) stick with what I have got - Chronicle/Knard
2) replace the Knard with a Chupacabra
3) order two Chupacabra’s and put them on front and back.

Any suggestions appreciated.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

#2 for sure. I find the Chupa to be a much better tire all around than the Knard. 

Can you measure the Chronicle casing on the 35mm rim?


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*Why not a REAL 29 X 2.7*



craigsj said:


> Just understand that calling anything bigger than 2.4" a "plus" tire renders the term meaningless. 2.5" existed before "plus" yet WTB calls a 2.5" tire a plus and mislabels it 2.8 in the process. Even more insulting is that it's clearly based on an existing product that IS labeled 2.5" and is not marketed as plus. It's shameful and exists because we tolerate it.
> 
> Truth in labelling is what's important, and a standard for consistent labelling of size would be a service to the market and to users. I created a thread on that recently and got exactly 0 replies. No one really cares.
> 
> ...


Agreed 100%. 
I'm a realitive Newbie here, but why Maxxis don't just make a TRUE 29 X 2.7 (one that is actually 2.7" wide) Minnion DHF and rule the market is beyond my comprehension, JMO.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Why the hole between 2.4 (we know the 2.5s are smaller) and 3.0? My bike could handle at least 2.7s if they existed.


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi Aok. Thanks for the suggestion. Will give the Chupa's a try.

Just measured the Chronicle on my P35s. Images for tread and casing attached. 74.88mm and 71.16mm respectively.

Cheers


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

there are some guys around here that run chronicle/chupa in a f/r setup and love it. if i were in the market for + sizes right now i'd rock that combo. my terrain is from hard pack to sand/gravel with loam in between. of course there are roots and rocks too, but who's counting that?


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

What do you think of the Vee Crown tires? 
29 x 3.00
They are half the price of a Traxx Fatty... why?
And why a tire designed for "all mountain and endure" (Crown Gem) in the City Trekking tire serie?


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Tried a pair of Vee tires for my fatty and they were completely useless unless you were on totally dry hardpack. Cause of that never even considered Vees again. Who knows maybe 3" are a diff story.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

savo said:


> What do you think of the Vee Crown tires?
> 29 x 3.00
> They are half the price of a Traxx Fatty... why?
> And why a tire designed for "all mountain and endure" (Crown Gem) in the City Trekking tire serie?


Those 3 tires look to be a mistake if you ask me. They are listed in the Trekking tire section, the price is way too low, and the pictures show smaller tires. But, I have heard Vee is working on more + size tires, so who knows!


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

savo said:


> What do you think of the Vee Crown tires?
> 29 x 3.00
> They are half the price of a Traxx Fatty... why?
> And why a tire designed for "all mountain and endure" (Crown Gem) in the City Trekking tire serie?


I'm pretty sure they are actually 2.3" wide: Quick Take: Vee Tire Crown all-mountain/enduro tires - Mtbr.com


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## Jlee197853 (Mar 15, 2004)

The vee traxx fatty is a great tire. Been running one on the front of my singlespeed for a few months. Great traction on loose over hard.


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

How much stans do I run in a Hugo wrapped in a Chronicle?


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

29x3.0 is the size. The synthesis sidewall versions of these tires are not yet available for sale.

Thank you!!!

tonyd.
There is the quote from Vee on the size of the crown gem!
I got one on order, we shall see!


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Just got my new wheel back, Velocity P35 hoop, dt spokes, dt 350 hub with a new Bontrager Chupacabra. Tubeless setup with about 4oz of Stans. Didnt get to weigh wheel and tire because it was already built up when I got there but will post weights when I can. Whole setup felt real light! Very impressed with the size of the P35. I was suprised with the size of the tire, width wise. From what I read it's wider than the Knard. I put my Knard 27tpi on my Velocity blunt sl wheel just for the hell of it and the Knard is actually a little wider. Not sure how thats possible. Hopefully I'll get fo test it out soon and report back.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I just setup the Innova cheapies on Hugo's. The front aired up with a floor pump and soapy water. The back required a small air compressor to set the bead, but no soap. They've got about 120ml of Stan's and are holding great - they're much bigger on the wide rims and should be able to run at pretty low psi.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Must I choose my tires for my Krampus and I hesitate between the 3 models available here in France it is , Maxxis Chronicle, Vee Rubber Trax Fatty or Surly Knard 120tpi (27 tpi is much too heavy for my taste..), depending on your experience for dry, slightly sandy grounds and a tire that remains quite "wheelchair" that would you recommend?


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Just read this entire disjointed thread to find what 29+ tires are now available, which one's are recommended, and one's to avoid. What I learned in order of preference: (Not yet available to mortals - Dirt Wizard, B Nimble, Vittoria Bomboloni)

1) Bontrager Chupacabra - (best balance of light, durable, grip)
2) Maxxis Chronicle - (XC oriented, good tubeless)
3) Vee Trax Fatty - (light, fast, undersized)
4) Surly Knard 27tpi - (tougher sidewalls, fast)
5) Innova Gravity - (wire bead, cheap, full sized)
6) Surly Knard 120tpi - ( fast rolling, weak sidewalls)

*(This ^ is from the posts of others.)*
Based on what currently available in the US, and past experience, I just ordered the Maxxis Chronicle.

Reading this thread was a pain filled with lover's quarrels, loss of focus, **** slinging, and B+ dreaming. :nono:

My hope is that the next person seeking current info on 29+ tires does not have to sift through all of this BS.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I had the 120 knard, very weak sidewall if youre a bigger rider. Got the 27 tpi instead, much more predictable and stable. Just picked up the Chupacabra and it comes out on top in every category IMO. Excellent grip, low rolling resistance and a nice sidewall, fairly light. Only downside is the price.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Wouldn't call a 27tpi Knard fast. More heavy and durable.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

The Innova is fast and cheap - not that heavy either.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Flyin_W said:


> Just read this entire disjointed thread to find what 29+ tires are now available, which one's are recommended, and one's to avoid. What I learned in order of preference: (Not yet available to mortals - Dirt Wizard, B Nimble, Vittoria Bomboloni)
> 
> 1) Bontrager Chupacabra - (best balance of light, durable, grip)
> 2) Maxxis Chronicle - (XC oriented, good tubeless)
> ...


It all depends on what your definition of best is! That might be the right list for you, but for others it will be different. I know a lot of people complain about the 120tpi Knards, and I was skeptical when I first got them, but they have held up surprisingly well considering my techy East coast trails. I've been running them since they were first released, and they are still going strong. All the other tires seem to be a bit smaller as well, so if volume is at the top of your list, the Knard is still a great option. I don't ride in mud, but for everything else, the traction is awesome!

That said, If I were to buy tires right now, it would probably be the Bontrager.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

That list was compiled by wading through all 580 posts, and is clearly labeled "this is from the posts of others". 

That means both the ranking and the comments are what I gathered, and not MY personal opinion. 

Funny how you disagree, then repeat exactly what the majority said.

...sent by dixie cup/string


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Flyin_W said:


> Based on what currently available in the US, and past experience, I just ordered the Maxxis Chronicle.


I feel your pain regarding having to read through that thread.

I'm still keen on the Maxxis Chronicles. I'm feeling frugal at the moment so I may run my aging 120tpi knards another season before I buy new rubber.

I've got a long-ish non-techy bikepacking trip planned for June and then a techy trip planned for July/Aug....so I may swap in the Chronicles between those trips as they won't perform better than the Knards for non-techy riding.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Flyin_W said:


> That list was compiled by wading through all 580 posts, and is clearly labeled "this is from the posts of others".
> 
> That means both the ranking and the comments are what I gathered, and not MY personal opinion.
> 
> ...


I understand you were compiling a list from what others have said, and I didn't agree or disagree with your list. I just commented that depending on what someone's priorities are, the list will look different for different people. Not many people have actually ridden the Chupacabra, so not sure how the 'majority' say it's the best.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

^ How? By weighting the responses, and focusing on new releases. 
People who are known and respected (mikesee, teamdickey, DrJon, bhowell) got a higher value than fanbois, or those stirring the ****. 

Most know that Surly Knard was the first production 29 x 3.0 tire, and that it came stock on the Krampus. 
We also know that it's durability & performance both tubeless, and in the wet left many searching for better alternatives. 
IMHO this is exactly why this thread was created - for those in search of a better tire. Certainly, not all have been an improvement. 

So to post repeatedly how great the Knard 120's are isn't helpful, we get it. 
On the bright side, soon they'll be plenty of used Knards to buy, and some new releases to get excited about.


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## silver2ks4 (Oct 29, 2011)

My experience puts the tires in this order. Innova, knard, traxx, chronicle. My reasons for this order are im cheap, ride a SS, light, fast rolling, durability and handling. I find that for my local trails the innova works well its lighter than a knard with better traction and similar rolling traits. The knard works really well here but isnt very durable in the 120tpi version. The traxx was ok in a straight line but has some auto steering traits i didnt care for but its a tuff tire for sure. I rode the chronicles once and put my innovas back on immediately. To me they were sluggish and slow rolling with the worst auto steer of all the tires ive tried. I havent had the chance to ride the chupas cause again im cheap and after riding the innovas i just cant shell out 120 bucks for another tire.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Flyin_W said:


> ^ How? By weighting the responses, and focusing on new releases.
> People who are known and respected (mikesee, teamdickey, DrJon, bhowell) got a higher value than fanbois, or those stirring the ****.
> 
> Most know that Surly Knard 120tpi was the first production 29 x 3.0 tire, and that it came stock on the Krampus.
> ...


I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying that your list should be compiled differently or that it is wrong. That is your list, based on what your priorities are for a 29+ tire after reading through the whole thread. Someone else reading through the whole thread will put them in a different order. Overall traction may be the most important thing, in which case the Gravity would be higher on 'their' list. Maybe weight is the most important thing to someone, so the lightest tire would be at the top.

The 120tpi Knard was not the first production 29+ tire, the 27tpi version was, and that's what comes standard on the Krampus, and lots of people are perfectly happy with it.

I thinks you're a bit optimistic about seeing lots of used Knards for sale, but I am excited about any new releases.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

For non-techy riding I like the 120 tpi Knards plenty so if anyone wants to sell a lightly used set or 2 at a good price drop me a line.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

bikeny, It's kewl, all have differing priorities. i stand corrected on the 27 tpi's, and also look forward to new offerings.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

vikb said:


> so if anyone wants to sell a lightly used set or 2 at a good price drop me a line.


Pm sent.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Here in France the easier to find and less expensive tires are the Maxxis Chronicle and the Vee Trax Fatty so I'll point me to one of these 2 tires...

Currently I ride a Kona Unit Front 29 + with a Trax Fatty tire mounted on a ZTR Arch rim and I am rather happy with this tire I found pretty rolling and fast only flaw in forward it tends to pick up on the corner when it is wet or greasy.

My Krampus OPS (I received my frame yesterday!) will be mounted with Velocity Blunt 35 wheels / hubs Hope / rays CX Ray and therefore remains that to choose the tires... It would take me the diffuser disc on my sandy soil that is not too slow...


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Can Chupacabras be bought in Europe somewhere?

And can the Innova Gravity be? Amazon.com doesn't ship them overseas.


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

So far I have experience with the 27 tpi Knards with tubes on Dually rims and a few rides on 120tpi EXO TR Chronicles tubeless. The main reasons for the change were to get a tubeless ready tire and potentially improve predictability in corners. 

The 27 tpi Knards are decent tires for the application they have been used on my ECR. I did not buy the ECR to get rowdy, but it gets ridden that way on occasion. The results from aggressive behavior were varied. There were occasional pinch flats and more than occasional rear and two wheel drifts. It was a bit like riding back in the early 90's. 

I recently purchased a set of Maxxis Chronicles in 120tpi, EXO, TR. The tires were very easy to set up tubeless on the Dually rims. One strip of Stan's tape and three scoops of juice did the trick. Aired up with a floor pump, but I missed the re-assuring pop that is associated with bead lock/humps missing from the Dually rims. The profile of the Chronicle on the Dually is perfectly round. I don't think I would want any more rim width with this tire.

I have run the Chronicles at pressures from 9 to 16 psi on various surfaces. At 9 psi, the front tire starts to auto steer on pavement. 11 psi is enough to eliminate the auto steer and allow hands off the bars. Cornering on hard pack with the Chronicle is much more predictable than the 27tpi Knard and rolling resistance is similar between the two. (the Chronicles may be faster on pavement) No rides in any real mud yet, but the side knobs on the Chronicle look like they will work for cornering. I have found that I like the pressure 1 or 2 psi higher in the Chronicles vs the Knards for all situations. The higher tpi and tubeless still offer a good ride without being squishy.

Overall I am happy with the upgrade, but it is not a huge difference on the ECR for the majority of rides I do. If I was riding a more trail oriented bike like a Krampus or Gnarvester with a front suspension fork, the Chronicle would make a bigger difference. YMMV.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Well written review, thanks!

...sent by dixie cup/string


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Looking for a true 3 inch tire mounted up on Stans Hugo. Any widths measured with this setup?


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

My Chupacabras on my Hugos measure 3 inches

Never measured my knards but about the same.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I'd say the Innova is close to 3 or 3 on Hugo's, but I don't have calipers.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Looking for a true 3 inch tire mounted up on Stans Hugo. Any widths measured with this setup?


All of the tires in the list will be about 3". Some a little smaller, some a little bigger, but not a huge difference. I think the Knards are on the bigger side, and the Vee and Innova on the smaller side.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks, that's was I was thinking...also in order to figure out what works better on the front and back if I decide to go with different tires front/rear. I prefer a bit larger tire in the front with good cornering traction too.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

I am running the Vidar on some no-name 38mm rims (35mm inside). Just had it out for a mud run, and I am happy with the traction and performance. No sidewall softness issues, even at low pressure. Can't say exactly what I am running (due to poor low pressure gauge), but I would guess it was in the 5psi neighborhood. 

So I pinched-flatted on a mild log crossing and had to put in my backup standard 29er tube. This seems to work fine, and I think I'm going to replace my front tube as well for weight savings.

After pumping it up, this tire rolls decent and still has plenty of mud traction. Grain of salt - I have had no other tires on these rims, but I have some Kenda Nevegals to throw on for sake of comparison.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

diylighter said:


> but I would guess it was in the 5psi neighborhood.
> 
> So I pinched-flatted on a mild log crossing and had to put in my backup standard 29er tube.


5 psi is soft for a 4"-5" fatbike tire. For a 29+ tire you'll have flats and rim damage if you are trail riding dirt/rocks.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

vikb said:


> 5 psi is soft for a 4"-5" fatbike tire. For a 29+ tire you'll have flats and rim damage if you are trail riding dirt/rocks.


If he was just in mud, I could see it working. I've been running down to 10 on the same tire.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

SS Hack said:


> If he was just in mud, I could see it working. I've been running down to 10 on the same tire.





diylighter said:


> So I pinched-flatted on a mild log crossing and had to put in my backup standard 29er tube.


Doesn't sound like he pinch flatted on mud. 10 psi would be a reasonable soft conditions pressure for a 3" tire.

That's what I would use on my 4" fatbike for general trail riding.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

vikb said:


> Doesn't sound like he pinch flatted on mud. 10 psi would be a reasonable soft conditions pressure for a 3" tire.
> 
> That's what I would use on my 4" fatbike for general trail riding.


He needs full fat too.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

SS Hack said:


> He needs full fat too.


Yeah I like the 29+ in mud. No need for the super float of 4-5 tires like you would need in snow/sand. That's without a direct comparison, though.

I'm not sure if it was 5psi, but it was too soft. I'm sure we all know that most gauges are not very accurate at low psi.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

diylighter said:


> Yeah I like the 29+ in mud. No need for the super float of 4-5 tires like you would need in snow/sand. That's without a direct comparison, though.
> 
> I'm not sure if it was 5psi, but it was too soft. I'm sure we all know that most gauges are not very accurate at low psi.


Get yourself a good low pressure gauge like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Meiser-Presta...6785698&sr=8-1&keywords=meiser+pressure+gauge

Essential when dialing in fat and plus size tire pressures.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

bikeny said:


> Get yourself a good low pressure gauge like this one:
> 
> Amazon.com: Meiser Presta-Valve Dial Gauge with Pressure Relief: 30psi: Automotive
> 
> Essential when dialing in fat and plus size tire pressures.


Wow, was about to buy one, but many bad reviews! maybe a bad batch?

I have jungle fox carbon rims about to arrive on my doorstep and I need to make sure my pressures are not too low every ride.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Maybe a bad batch. I like mine, but I do consider it fragile. I think that if you dropped it hard it might tweak the spring. I have the 15psi version, but would recommend the 30psi so it would work on regular tires also. Its best feature is how well it seals onto a presta valve.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

bikeny said:


> Get yourself a good low pressure gauge like this one:
> 
> Amazon.com: Meiser Presta-Valve Dial Gauge with Pressure Relief: 30psi: Automotive
> 
> Essential when dialing in fat and plus size tire pressures.


Thanks - I'm going to try a cheap digital pistol grip first. As long as it is consistent doesn't necessarily need to be accurate - except for talking shop with friends


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No need for a pressure gauge, just use your hand and give it a squeeze. Anyone can learn to judge pressure by squeezing the tire, it makes sense to develop this skill. 

Tire pressure gauges will give you a number, that number is contextual, iei you have to take into account the tire design, tubes or tubeless, terrain, rider skill and style, and the history of the "set up" at known pressures. 

No gauge is very accurate, esp at very low pressures. Always err on the high side to avoid flatting. If you're hitting the rim, the pressure is too low. If it feels low, it is low.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> No need for a pressure gauge, just use your hand and give it a squeeze. Anyone can learn to judge pressure by squeezing the tire, it makes sense to develop this skill.
> 
> Tire pressure gauges will give you a number, that number is contextual, iei you have to take into account the tire design, tubes or tubeless, terrain, rider skill and style, and the history of the "set up" at known pressures.
> 
> No gauge is very accurate, esp at very low pressures. Always err on the high side to avoid flatting. If you're hitting the rim, the pressure is too low. If it feels low, it is low.


A pressure gauge makes the whole process SO much easier and more repeatable. Squeezing the tire can get you into a certain range, but it's not very accurate. The low pressure gauges being discussed are very accurate, unlike the ones on your standard floor pump which are useless for fat tires.

The process is very simple: Attach floor pump and give it a couple of pumps. Remove floor pump and attach gauge. Press the release button a couple of times until you get the desired pressure.

Obviously, you still have to figure out what the desired pressure is, which will depend on lots of factors.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't use a gauge or the squeeze test as I find both are more trouble than they are worth and depending what I am carrying the pressure needs to change. 

I just look down at my tire as I am riding for the amount of deformation that indicates I am at the correct pressure. I can just glance down now and I know if I am too high or too low. At the next stop I add or remove pressure as needed.

I'm often on tour with my 29+ bike so having one less thing to carry is nice.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

bikeny said:


> Get yourself a good low pressure gauge like this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Meiser-Presta...6785698&sr=8-1&keywords=meiser+pressure+gauge
> 
> Essential when dialing in fat and plus size tire pressures.


x2, I have the 30 PSI version of that exact gauge, and love it. Really helped me get things dialed in. The squeeze test is kind of useless IMO if you don't know what a certain PSI feels like for a specific tire.


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## coldbike (Feb 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> I don't use a gauge or the squeeze test as I find both are more trouble than they are worth and depending what I am carrying the pressure needs to change.
> I'm often on tour with my 29+ bike so having one less thing to carry is nice.


Exactly. I also find that if I try to adjust the pressure before the ride, I sometimes err (pun intended) depending on the temperature, load and trail conditions. Setting an appropriate sag is a much better method and accounts for any luggage, as well as being flexible enough to add or reduce pressure to compensate for rocks or smooth terrain.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Delete


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

Looking forward to this.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

it's silly that we pay as much for a bike tire as we do for a car tire.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

True fishwrinkle, but after finding it mounted up tubeless with a floor pump and measured just a little bigger than 3.0 wide when aired up on the Velocity Blunt 35, I am happy that thus far it seems I may have gotten what I paid for.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

oh i'm guilty as well, just pointing out the obvious i guess. sounds like good reasons to me to buy it


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fishwrinkle said:


> it's silly that we pay as much for a bike tire as we do for a car tire.


It makes complete sense. It's called economies of scale. If bike tires were made in quantities 1000 - 10,000 times greater than they are now we'd see much lower prices.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Im not suprised how much tires are. Sh#t a gallon of milk is twice the amount of a gallon of gas.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yes i understand vik. i'm hoping the duro crux and miner come out for 29 actually. lol stop drinking milk it has no value to your body


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

fishwrinkle said:


> it's silly that we pay as much for a bike tire as we do for a car tire.


And your point is? Think about it, it would take the same amount of equipment/machines same labour same time to manufacture for any tire, less material for a bike tire but that would be the cheap part. Consider scale of manufacture 1 million auto tires for every 10 bikes tires (just my estimate).


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

vikb said:


> I don't use a gauge or the squeeze test as I find both are more trouble than they are worth and depending what I am carrying the pressure needs to change.
> 
> I just look down at my tire as I am riding for the amount of deformation that indicates I am at the correct pressure. I can just glance down now and I know if I am too high or too low. At the next stop I add or remove pressure as needed.
> 
> I'm often on tour with my 29+ bike so having one less thing to carry is nice.


This is something that I need to practice at. Whenever I get worried that one of tires is going flat, usually the rear one, I look down at bulging tire and it always looks bad and I have to stop and feel it.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Um, while economy of scale has a part to play in this, it's also tyres construction and if you want to pay about 1/3-1/4 the cost, just buy the wire bead version just like cars use.



fishwrinkle said:


> it's silly that we pay as much for a bike tire as we do for a car tire.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Then your talking one tire, the knard. Not too many companies making two versions of the same tire. Even at that the bead material isn't the only difference between the two versions of the knard. 

The scale of manufacturing car tires vs bike tires is way beyond me.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

LyNx said:


> Um, while economy of scale has a part to play in this, it's also tyres construction and if you want to pay about 1/3-1/4 the cost, just buy the wire bead version just like cars use.


That's why I went with the Innovas. Which by the way, are holding air better than any tubeless tire I've owned - no apparent lose of pressure after two weeks of sitting after first setup.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

LBS post this on their FB page yesterday. They were gone in an hour :


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

I stand corrected, 2 tires now with bead/weight/options. Haven't seen any weights listed for these yet. Nice to have an more aggressive tread option now.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

awesome, hopefully can get in time for full Maine Mud season. although its always mud season around my house.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Huh, I guess I never realized that those were going to be "3.0". So does that mean the casing is actually bigger, or is it just marketing?

I just got one of the 26x2.75 to add some life to my 26er, and like it quite a bit. But for my 29er I was definitely hoping for something a little bit bigger.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

efuss said:


> LBS post this on their FB page yesterday. They were gone in an hour :
> View attachment 976553


What do those bad boys weigh?


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

efuss said:


> LBS post this on their FB page yesterday. They were gone in an hour :
> View attachment 976553


Well, suma***** . . . would be interested to hear how they work as a front tire.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

newfangled said:


> Huh, I guess I never realized that those were going to be "3.0". So does that mean the casing is actually bigger, or is it just marketing?


The casing on the 29er DW is the same as the Knard at 3". The 26er tire is smaller.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

efuss said:


> LBS post this on their FB page yesterday. They were gone in an hour :
> View attachment 976553


I'm confused, are the DW's about to hit the market or not? Seems strange that an LBS would have a pair when Surly's mothership (QBP) still doesn't show them as available...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

jnroyal said:


> I'm confused, are the DW's about to hit the market or not? Seems strange that an LBS would have a pair when Surly's mothership (QBP) still doesn't show them as available...


Someone switched the label, or at least flipped the 6 upside down...


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

green mt. boy said:


> I see two 29+ tire choices (Knard and Dirt Wizard) on the Surly site. Are these the only choices at this time?


I just got back from Asia and took a few pics of a new Duro offering at the Taipei show.

I've not seen any PR online on this tire yet, apologies if it is already posted earlier.

I have no ideas on weight, etc. but it looked like it was a true 3.25" based on sheer size. Big knobs too.

Have a loot at it on the rack next to the 27.5 x 3.25" of the same model. It's massive.

Cheers, Brett


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

is there a smaller volume 29+ tire out there... say a 2.8? I've tried a Chronicle in the back and it spins freely but have occasional rub on chainstays... I've read the Vee TF is a touch smaller is it?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

29 x 3.25 seems weird... what bikes can actually fit it?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

seat_boy said:


> 29 x 3.25 seems weird... what bikes can actually fit it?


Krampus might handle it - at least in the front. I'd like a monster up there.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

like i said a week ago, it'd be nice if the miner came out for 29. As a front tire the miner looks sweet, and if the crux was narrower as a rear i think that would be a combo for me.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

mikesee said:


> Someone switched the label, or at least flipped the 6 upside down...


They are real, installed on a Krampus, and supposedly will fit a Fox RLC Fork.
Apparently someone at QBP likes my LBS


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah that label is 100%. MC likes to stir the pot sometimes


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

seat_boy said:


> 29 x 3.25 seems weird... what bikes can actually fit it?


You're asking that backward, near as I can tell.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I think Duro has it backwards... instead of going bigger, they should have made a 29 x 2.7 or so. That would fit all those frames out there with good, but not quite 29+ worthy, clearance (Surly KM, Niner, etc), then folks could keep using their current 29er wheelset and avoid the whole 650B+ experimentation.



mikesee said:


> You're asking that backward, near as I can tell.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Although I can't see how a 2.7" on a Dually would fit in my KM to be honest, 2.4" on the Dually barely has clearance, but I guess if mounted on an i25 say it might.



seat_boy said:


> I think Duro has it backwards... instead of going bigger, they should have made a 29 x 2.7 or so. That would fit all those frames out there with good, but not quite 29+ worthy, clearance (Surly KM, Niner, etc), then folks could keep using their current 29er wheelset and avoid the whole 650B+ experimentation.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Someone switched the label, or at least flipped the 6 upside down...


Maybe an April Fools joke by the LBS ?


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> I think Duro has it backwards... instead of going bigger, they should have made a 29 x 2.7 or so. That would fit all those frames out there with good, but not quite 29+ worthy, clearance (Surly KM, Niner, etc), then folks could keep using their current 29er wheelset and avoid the whole 650B+ experimentation.


Depends on what you own I guess. They got it right for us Krampus/Gnarvester/ROS 9+/etc. riders. I would love to try one of these on the front of my Krampus.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

seat_boy said:


> I think Duro has it backwards... instead of going bigger, they should have made a 29 x 2.7 or so. That would fit all those frames out there with good, but not quite 29+ worthy, clearance (Surly KM, Niner, etc), then folks could keep using their current 29er wheelset and avoid the whole 650B+ experimentation.


i second that... i need a 2.7-2.8 tire for my Gryphon!


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

We need bigger and smaller.


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## rocky.mountain (Jul 9, 2009)

Hugo/ Krampus/ Bontrager Chupacabra compatibility?

Anybody out there on a krampus with hugo rims? I currently have a krampus with rabbit holes and knards and there aint a ton of tire clearance to begin with. I just ordered a set of hugos, and was hoping to order some bontrager chupacabra's, but reading thread leads me to believe that the bontragers are slighty wider than the knards. I guess I want to make sure that the bontragers will fit on the hugos on a krampus before I drop a stupid amount of money on bike tires. thanks in advance.


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## mattbyke (Jan 14, 2015)

I too believe , a 2.7/2.8 29er tire would sell very well to the huge existing 29 ownership .


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

mattbyke said:


> I too believe , a 2.7/2.8 29er tire would sell very well to the huge existing 29 ownership .


That's the size I would buy as it fits well in existing frames/drivetrains and it is just a good compromise between weight, float, and dependability. I say dependability because if you make a tire too thin, it just isn't going to last in techy trails and would have to be so heavy if it was made thick enough and it was any larger.


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## joop (Dec 11, 2006)

mattbyke said:


> I too believe , a 2.7/2.8 29er tire would sell very well to the huge existing 29 ownership .


That is where I am waiting for too, it would make my Jones perfect. Now I have the wide rims(50mm) but in the rear it stops @2.4

So all you tire makers, help your existing and loyal customers out?!


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

Ive said it before and Ill say it again. I want a 2.8 Minion! I don't care what it weighs!
That's all


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

But I would settle for a Dirt wizard. Dreaming someday they will actually get here.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

fixgeardan said:


> Ive said it before and Ill say it again. I want a 2.8 Minion! I don't care what it weighs!
> That's all


Pardon me if this has been posted before, but leafing through 23 pages is too much on my slow internet connection 
Minion FBF/FBR
Maxxis' New Rubber - Taipei Show 2015 - Pinkbike
If they've done it fat, it shouldn't be too hard to scale it down to 29+ or 27.5+


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

fixgeardan said:


> Ive said it before and Ill say it again. I want a 2.8 Minion! I don't care what it weighs!


What the heck (although I've already written Maxxis) I may as well add my wish here too.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Getting back to 29+

Was looking at the Panaracer site, Fat B Nimble 29 x 3.0 weighs 765 grms How light can this get? Thats about 115 grms lighter than a Chupacabra. Not sure I would trust riding that in any type of rocky conditions. Kind of fun to see how it Pans out.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

Trek finally built their bike around their Bontrager Chupacabra 29x3.0 tire. Hopefully this will encourage other tire and frame manufacturers to bring other choices to market.
http://wp.me/p5WtOq-e


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

TuTone T said:


> Getting back to 29+
> 
> Was looking at the Panaracer site, Fat B Nimble 29 x 3.0 weighs 765 grms How light can this get? Thats about 115 grms lighter than a Chupacabra. Not sure I would trust riding that in any type of rocky conditions. Kind of fun to see how it Pans out.


 Supposedly these are available now in the states (according to an email reply yesterday) but they gave no indication where they could be purchased. Anyone know?


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

forgiven_nick said:


> Trek finally built their bike around their Bontrager Chupacabra 29x3.0 tire. Hopefully this will encourage other tire and frame manufacturers to bring other choices to market.
> http://wp.me/p5WtOq-e


And with a Manitou Magnum fork?



TuTone T said:


> Getting back to 29+
> Was looking at the Panaracer site, Fat B Nimble 29 x 3.0 weighs 765 grms How light can this get? Thats about 115 grms lighter than a Chupacabra.


I think the FatBNimble is supposed to be relatively small? I've got a Singular Gryphon, and apparently people were able to fit the demo FatBNimbles into the back of the Gryphon and Swift.

So smaller size is probably why it's so light. But it might also be the ~2.7/2.8" tire that some people (like me) are looking for.


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## Noah_Deuce (May 31, 2006)

My understanding is that the Fat-B-Nimble in the "27.5x3.5" is more like a 2.8. 
http://dirtragmag.com/introduction-...craper-rims-and-panaracer-fat-b-nimble-tires/


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Are the Fat B Nimble 29 available anywhere?


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Oops wrong forum ignore my post


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

^ i think you're in the wrong forum, lol


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

Schwalbe is releasing 27.5+ tires this fall with 29+ to follow...
http://wp.me/p5WtOq-x


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

FYI: I just called my local Trek dealer to inquire about the Chupacabra - according to them, Trek only has 45 tires available in the US with the next shipment due July 27th. I had to order 2 right then!

Get them now or wait until late July!


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

pulsepro said:


> FYI: I just called my local Trek dealer to inquire about the Chupacabra - according to them, Trek only has 45 tires available in the US with the next shipment due July 27th. I had to order 2 right then!
> 
> Get them now or wait until late July!


After getting in some miles on my Chupacabras I feel that they are worth every penny. Everything about them is awesome. They roll great, awesome traction, and tubeless is easy.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I just received my pair of Panaracer Fat B Nimble 29+ tires. I only weighed/measured one, but the other should be pretty close. Weight is indeed very light, 749g! The bead to bead measurement when laid out flat is 174mm. For comparison, I measured a Vee Trax Fatty 29+ at 851g and 184mm B-B, so the Panaracer is smaller. I have not mounted them yet so don't know how much smaller yet.

Also for reference from Fat-Bike.com:

Bontrager Chupacabra: 895g/884g B-B: 184mm
Vittoria Bomboloni: 955g/964g B-B: 172mm
Maxxis Chronicle 120tpi EXO: 1076g/1062g B-B: 188mm


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

bikeny said:


> I just received my pair of Panaracer Fat B Nimble 29+ tires. I only weighed/measured one, but the other should be pretty close. Weight is indeed very light, 749g! The bead to bead measurement when laid out flat is 174mm. For comparison, I measured a Vee Trax Fatty 29+ at 851g and 184mm B-B, so the Panaracer is smaller. I have not mounted them yet so don't know how much smaller yet.
> 
> Also for reference from Fat-Bike.com:
> 
> ...


I am about to pull the trigger on a tire and am wondering if you mounted these yet. Because I am putting it on a Lefty with a 50mm rim, I am looking for a tire that is a little under 3".
The Fat B Nimble looks promising.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I am about to pull the trigger on a tire and am wondering if you mounted these yet. Because I am putting it on a Lefty with a 50mm rim, I am looking for a tire that is a little under 3".
> The Fat B Nimble looks promising.


No, I have not mounted it yet, but from all of the B-B measurements, it should be the smallest.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ did you order it from somewhere, or are they still just doing samples?


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

bikeny, 

any idea on a B-B measurement on the Innova 29+ Gravity tire? I've had mine mounted tubeless on a P35 for about 2-3 months and I believe it has grown. No calipers at hand but it looks bigger than my Knard also on a P35 (mounted the same way, but for almost 2 years)...


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

*Ardent 2.4 with fork on front of 29+ bike?*

I've ridden my Motobecane 29 plus enough now to know that even with carbon bars I am not going to ride it much without a suspension fork.
I tried reducing pressure on the Gravity Vidar tires, but ended up with 2 pinch flats when at the point when it became comfortable to me on NE trails (riding fast and then hitting a patch of roots, babyheads at speed). I normally ride a full squish set up firm, but thinking 29+ with fork would be sweet (like the Trek Stache but SS and cheaper).

What do you guys think about running an Ardent 2.4 on front with a suspension fork, keeping the SS Vidar on the rear?

What (budget) fork do you like, and has anyone tried this? I realize that it may upset the geometry depending on the fork and travel, but probably no way to know without either doing a lot of math or just biting the bullet.

Could do a Bluto I guess, but that would be a pretty wide hub and I would think there would be performance issues at speed. Thinking more like a Recon(?) or whatever 29er fork I can find used.

Thanks


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

diylighter said:


> Thinking more like a Recon(?) or whatever 29er fork I can find used.
> 
> Thanks


I got a Fox Float 34 130mm used for a good price and took sufficient material away from the fork brace to fit a 3" 29+ tire.

https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/fox-float-34-krampus-mods/


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Sounds like the overall grip discrepancy between a 2.4 Ardent in the front and a 29x3 in the rear would make for a strange ride. What rims are you using? If you're not using 35-50mm rims, I recommend putting one on the front at least (before you try a suspension fork). Good luck.


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## diylighter (Sep 4, 2008)

Yeah you're probably right about that. I would have to get a new wheel for the front, due to the 135mm hub. I'll wait probably for a proper fork like the new Manitou Magnum (where did they come back from all of the sudden?), in a RX or Fox.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

_*bkirby10; *

*bikeny,* 
any idea on a B-B measurement on the Innova 29+ Gravity tire? I've had mine mounted tubeless on a P35 for about 2-3 months and I believe it has grown. No calipers at hand but it looks bigger than my Knard also on a P35 (mounted the same way, but for almost 2 years)..._
---------------

*bkirby10*, I just measured my Innova BB (with a tape measure) 7 5/16" X 25.4= 185.7 mm.

Does anyone have an actual width measurement of the Fat B Nimble on a 30mm Inside width rim?
I know *bikeny* said it is 174mm BB, which is 10mm smaller but not sure how that relates to width. I'd like to know the actual width before purchasing, as the Innova was a little too wide for the back of my Trance.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

#SurlyDirtWizard Tires are on the way...
https://ridealongside.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/29-inch-dirt-wizards-now-shipping/


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

jp08865 said:


> _*bkirby10; *
> 
> *bikeny,*
> any idea on a B-B measurement on the Innova 29+ Gravity tire? I've had mine mounted tubeless on a P35 for about 2-3 months and I believe it has grown. No calipers at hand but it looks bigger than my Knard also on a P35 (mounted the same way, but for almost 2 years)..._
> ...


I do not have any 30mm inside width rims, so I can't help you there. I did mount one on a 50mm outside/45mm inside rim last night. Letting it settle in at high pressure, and then will measure it tonight. On that rim, the casing is wider than the knobs. I will mount the other one on a 40mm outside/35mm inside rim tonight which should be closer to what you are using.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

bkirby10 said:


> bikeny,
> 
> any idea on a B-B measurement on the Innova 29+ Gravity tire? I've had mine mounted tubeless on a P35 for about 2-3 months and I believe it has grown. No calipers at hand but it looks bigger than my Knard also on a P35 (mounted the same way, but for almost 2 years)...


I just measured the width of my Innova Vidar last night and mine grew. It was about 2.9" and now it is a hair over 3".
The reason I bought that tire is because of it being a little slimmer because of using it on a Lefty. Now it's rubbing, so I'll have to dish it out a little bit more.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

forgiven_nick said:


> #SurlyDirtWizard Tires are on the way...
> https://ridealongside.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/29-inch-dirt-wizards-now-shipping/


Excellent. I'm plunging in. I have been putting up with these tiny knobbed knards for so long. It's going to be great riding something more aggressive! I'm glad Surly brought their 29+ tire prices down too.


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## scciowa (Oct 26, 2005)

*Bontrager Chupacabra update*

I now have several hundred miles of dirt riding on Chupas mounted to Ibis 941 rims. No notable leaks or failures despite riding trails notorious for goatheads in addition to typical rock gardens along the Wasatch front and back. I just did a bikepack route (fully laden with gear) in Craters of the Moon including 'singletrack' across lava flows. We all were concerned how tires would hold up and I'm convinced the 29+ was the right choice for this terrain and tough to beat for just about any terrain. The big hoops lumbered across lava flows (several miles wide) rolling over most everything. At speed I bounced and scraped the sidewalls off lava rocks approaching basketball size expecting a sidewall failure but it never happened. My repair kit included tire plugs, boots, Stans and if all else failed, tubes--needed none of it (actually--if all else failed, we carried one extra 29er tire). I've built a dyno hub on a 35mm Blunt--tough not to just get another Bontrager given my experience with it but the other 29+ offerings have me looking at other rubber. The Panaracer Fat B nimble looks very appealing given its price. Hate paying more than a hundy for a bike tire...


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

"Does anyone have an actual width measurement of the Fat B Nimble on a 30mm Inside width rim?"

JP - My Fat B Nimble on a Velocity Blunt 35 rim measures out to 67 mm wide. Hope this helps.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Is there an direction indicator on the Innova 29+ Gravity? I can't seem to find it.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

SyT said:


> Is there an direction indicator on the Innova 29+ Gravity? I can't seem to find it.


No, I just put it on the way it seemed right, but I'm not sure it even matters.


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## bkirby10 (Feb 23, 2012)

Check the center knobs. Looking at the pattern, they sort of form a 'V' that I used to face forward (=>=>=>=). Not sure it matters but that's how I mounted it on my front wheel and seems to make sense...


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Does anyone know where you can actually buy a Fat B Nimble 29er tire or the Vittoria Bomboloni


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## shmtastic (Aug 10, 2014)

SyT said:


> Is there an direction indicator on the Innova 29+ Gravity? I can't seem to find it.





bkirby10 said:


> Check the center knobs. Looking at the pattern, they sort of form a 'V' that I used to face forward (=>=>=>=). Not sure it matters but that's how I mounted it on my front wheel and seems to make sense...


I did this with the front tire then reversed it for the rear. On dually times, tubeless at 17 psi, it hooks up hard, and I only list traction on the front once, more my fault for a poor steer, cut back, on thick bed of pine needles. Can't say enough good about them.

SHM


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

https://ridealongside.wordpress.com/2015/05/01/surly-dirt-wizard-29x3-measurements/


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Enoch said:


> Does anyone know where you can actually buy a Fat B Nimble 29er tire or the Vittoria Bomboloni


^ Same question here... and I'm in Europe, but I can't find them available anywhere


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

savo said:


> ^ Same question here... and I'm in Europe, but I can't find them available anywhere


I would think you could order a Fat B Nimble from your LBS. Bomboloni is not available until mid summer.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> I would think you could order a Fat B Nimble from your LBS. Bomboloni is not available until mid summer.


I will be glad to order one from my lbs but, if the online dealers do not have them, it is unlikely my lbs can get them.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Anyone got a lead on Bonty Chuppas available online for sale, instock and from a vendor who doesn't ask "where is that" when I say can you ship to Canada?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, your local TREK store :skep: Other than that, try their site, think you can order online through it.



vikb said:


> Anyone got a lead on Bonty Chuppas available online for sale, instock and from a vendor who doesn't ask "where is that" when I say can you ship to Canada?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

vikb said:


> Anyone got a lead on Bonty Chuppas available online for sale, instock and from a vendor who doesn't ask "where is that" when I say can you ship to Canada?


I haven't checked recently, but mikesee was selling some of is bigwheeldeals website.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LyNx said:


> Yeah, your local TREK store :skep: Other than that, try their site, think you can order online through it.


Local Trek store can't get any in until late this summer which is too late for the trips I have planned. Bonty doesn't sell off their product website.



Slow Danger said:


> I haven't checked recently, but mikesee was selling some of is bigwheeldeals website.


Thanks. I emailed Mike when I posted my Q here. Just got a reply he's got some tires. :thumbsup:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Can anyone point me to some stats comparing tire heights?

My basis for comparison is a well used Maxxis Ardent 29 x 2.40 EXO on 22mm rims at 24psi.

When I put this wheel in my Mutz I had 13mm of clearance at the seat stay bridge.

Is it hopeless or is there a 29+ that'll fit?

I want to build a second wheelset for my Jefe and Mutz, already go a 650b+.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've got 2 Chupa's coming from Mike C and a new pair of Knards for non-techy stuff. I'm set for 29+ rubber for a while.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Can anyone point me to some stats comparing tire heights?





yogiprophet said:


> The height of DW mounted on a 45mm/50mm (inner/outer) rim is about 29-3/4" which falls right in between my Bontrager XR4 (about 29-1/4") and a Gravity Vidar (about 30-1/2").


Diameter of the Chupacabra tire works out to be the same as the Knard and Trax Fatty at 768mm (30.23").

Sounding like the DW is the shortest 29+ there is right now, from what I can find out (someone correct me if there is anything smaller diameter).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks!



nitrousjunky said:


> Diameter of the Chupacabra tire works out to be the same as the Knard and Trax Fatty at 768mm (30.23").
> 
> Sounding like the DW is the shortest 29+ there is right now, from what I can find out (someone correct me if there is anything smaller diameter).


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## ferrstein (Sep 29, 2008)

*29x3 Black Floyd or Great Big Apple?*

So who's gonna make me a pair of 29+ street slicks for my commuter? Surly? Schwalbe?

Looking for something 29x3 and fast. The Knards are okay on my ECR commuter, but I really like the idea of Floyds or Great Big Apples.

I got some serious potholes here in Cleveland, and even a 2.35 Schwalbe Big Apple on a Dually rim is a little jarring compared to the 29x3 knard... even though it's quite a bit faster.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ferrstein said:


> So who's gonna make me a pair of 29+ street slicks for my commuter? Surly? Schwalbe?
> 
> Looking for something 29x3 and fast. The Knards are okay on my ECR commuter, but I really like the idea of Floyds or Great Big Apples.
> 
> I got some serious potholes here in Cleveland, and even a 2.35 Schwalbe Big Apple on a Dually rim is a little jarring compared to the 29x3 knard... even though it's quite a bit faster.


Just keep riding old Knards until they are slicks. Run them tubeless and you can get a lots of street mileage on them after the knobs are gone and they are no good for dirt. A bald Knard is a Surly Great Big Apple. 

You can get people's old worn out Knards for free/cheap as well.


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

ferrstein said:


> So who's gonna make me a pair of 29+ street slicks for my commuter? Surly? Schwalbe?
> 
> Looking for something 29x3 and fast. The Knards are okay on my ECR commuter, but I really like the idea of Floyds or Great Big Apples.
> 
> I got some serious potholes here in Cleveland, and even a 2.35 Schwalbe Big Apple on a Dually rim is a little jarring compared to the 29x3 knard... even though it's quite a bit faster.


Only option right now is a maxxis Grifter, it's a 29x2.5, someone already got a set for his krampus, haven't seen any ride reports though.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

maxxis also makes the hookworm but it's only 2.5


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

fishwrinkle said:


> maxxis also makes the hookworm but it's only 2.5


Which means it's really a 2.3 on a wide rim.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Both of my hookworms are a full 2.5 @ 15 psi on front and 20 psi on back.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

I assume it is the 29+ version? Has it grown any larger. If not it looks like the tire I'm looking for for my 29er...assuming it will fit in a fox float.

G



jnroyal said:


> "Does anyone have an actual width measurement of the Fat B Nimble on a 30mm Inside width rim?"
> 
> JP - My Fat B Nimble on a Velocity Blunt 35 rim measures out to 67 mm wide. Hope this helps.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

G-Live said:


> I assume it is the 29+ version? Has it grown any larger. If not it looks like the tire I'm looking for for my 29er...assuming it will fit in a fox float.
> 
> G


What version of Fox Float do you have?

I run Maxxis Chronicle in Float 32. At 30psi it has no clearance and barely rotating, at 13psi it's rideable but rubs a bit in hard corners, at 10psi it doesn't rub in corners.
50mm rim.

Also both Flow Ex rim and 50mm rim had ~1-3mm more clearance on one side. I had to adjust spoke tensions to make it perfectly centered.

So here in the 29+ field we have so many variables.

AFAIK Fat B Nimble is one of the smallest 29+ tire. It should have plenty of clearance. Chronicle is the biggest on other hand.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Pretty sure I have a Float 32 100mm. I dont ride as much as I used to and would not likely need much clearance for mud etc. Just a little more width on the front even with a "small" front 29+ tire I think would be nice.



ya29er said:


> What version of Fox Float do you have?
> 
> I run Maxxis Chronicle in Float 32. At 30psi it has no clearance and barely rotating, at 13psi it's rideable but rubs a bit in hard corners, at 10psi it doesn't rub in corners.
> 50mm rim.
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my wheels built last, 29" WTB Scrapers, Onyx hubs, and Dirt Wizards, a single wrap of 25mm tape and a Stans Valve, three scoops of sealant, sealed first time with with a floor pump, spins very true, pumped to 30spi and sat overnight with no loss of air. 

The front DW clears my Bluto by ~1/2", the rear DW clears my Mutz by about 3/8". These wheels will probably stay on the tandem, the 27+ will go on the Mutz; but it's nice to know I can run th eMutz tall if I ever feel the need for speed ")

The 29" DW's are not exactly lightweight, the 120tpi versions ran 996gm and 1004gm, so quite a bit heaver than my 650b Trax Fatty 3.25

We have a race tomorrow on the tandem, four miles up, two miles across, then two miles of steep flow. We won't get a test ride before we hit the trail, so the flow section will be interesting on such big hoops


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

770 grams, On a 30mm Carbon rim. Sidewalls are paper thin.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We just got done with our first ride on the Dirt Wizard 29 x 3. Seriously, if you want a tough, aggressive, high volume 29er tire, this should be your first stop.

Running tubeless, two wraps of tape, three scoops of sealant, Scraper rims, db spokes, Onyx Racing hubs. Tires weighed 996/1004 GMs.

Bluto clearance is about 3/8"


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Dirt Wizard 29 x 3 on a 35mm Derby rim fits in the Rockshox Pike with some mud clearance. Not significantly slower rolling than a 2.5 Minion.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

StinkyP said:


> Dirt Wizard 29 x 3 on a 35mm Derby rim fits in the Rockshox Pike with some mud clearance. Not significantly slower rolling than a 2.5 Minion.


Glad to hear this, as it gives me some hope. I have a Pike, just got the DW. My rims are 30mm internal carbon Light Bicycle rims. Hopefully it works in the front for me too.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Glad to hear this, as it gives me some hope. I have a Pike, just got the DW. My rims are 30mm internal carbon Light Bicycle rims. Hopefully it works in the front for me too.


Keep us posted on how it fits in the Pike.


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## mbanzi (Oct 24, 2008)

Would you be so kind to measure the overall height/outside diameter of the mounted Fat B Nimble?



Enoch said:


>


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

Quick update on My Fat B Nimble. . .

It is one fast rolling tire. I ran in @ 14 PSI on a 30mm Carbon Light Bicycle rim. Straightline is awsome, but you better be careful when you lean this guy over hard. THe side knobs don't wrap very far down and you will litteraly be on the last row very quickly. I believe it would be better served as fast rear tire than front. If I had a true 29+ bike I would pair this up with a Chupacabra on the front for the local trails.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

4 month update on the gravity vidar tire: it as been used by me on the front of my mullet 29+/29er rigid singlespeed. the tire pattern is fantastic for a front tire in my terrain (varied eastcoast stuff, philly). When new it gripped and performed fantastically. But it seems part of what makes it such a good tire, real open tread profile, is also making it wear really quick. after four months of what i'd call only moderate use the cornering edges of the middle and outside knobs are noticeably chewed up and the tire does not have near the cornering bite it did when new. fortunately it still grips way better than any of the old standard sized tires i had up front before going semi-fat but the initial glue like grip is not there anymore. other than the knob wear the tire has held up great. numerous hard hits to the rim when getting pressures dialed with no issues and the sidewalls still look good. only one hole which stan's took care of for me (only noticed it cause of the white sh!t spewing from the tire for a few seconds). seems like a very decently built tire with a FANTASTIC price; albeit it seems to come with a short lifespan at it's peak performance. i usually get a a year or more out of a front tire before i need to switch it out. maybe bigger tires run at lower psi's just wear faster? i am running this at 1/2 the psi of the typical 2.4ish tires it replaced...

I'd imagine this tread pattern would wear out REALLY fast out back. But at 35 only bucks it is a great tire especially if you want a cheap intro into the 29+ tire world.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Maxxis... please make a 2.75/2.8 Chronicle, or a 2.75/2.8 Ikon... please.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Chronicle sucks IMHO, hope though that they do make a nice 2.8" Ikon. Could also do the tyre I tested in 2.8" as well and that'd be sweet 


savo said:


> Maxxis... please make a 2.75/2.8 Chronicle, or a 2.75/2.8 Ikon... please.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

LyNx said:


> Chronicle sucks IMHO, hope though that they do make a nice 2.8" Ikon. Could also do the tyre I tested in 2.8" as well and that'd be sweet


just curious, in what do you think an Ikon is better than a Chronicle? I'm riding with a Cronicle front and an Ikon 2.35 rear... quite happy but the Ikon (mainly due to the smaller size I reckon, thread looks similar indeed) show way less traction and grip than the Chronicle


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

max-a-mill said:


> 4 month update on the gravity vidar tire: it as been used by me on the front of my mullet 29+/29er rigid singlespeed. the tire pattern is fantastic for a front tire in my terrain When new it gripped and performed fantastically. But at 35 only bucks it is a great tire especially if you want a cheap intro into the 29+ tire world.


I too have been pretty impressed with this tire. I have Chupacabra that grips better but it is a bit fragile when compared to Gravity Vidar. With the open tread design and big lugs, I never expected it to roll so nicely or hook up this good on Hardpacked local trails. THe best thing is it fits inside my 32mm Fox fork.


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## shmtastic (Aug 10, 2014)

Enoch said:


> I too have been pretty impressed with this tire. I have Chupacabra that grips better but it is a bit fragile when compared to Gravity Vidar. With the open tread design and big lugs, I never expected it to roll so nicely or hook this good a Hardpacked local trails. THe best thing is it fits inside my 32mm Fox fork.


I run the Vidar front and rear on my Minnesota 2.0 with Velocity Blunts, and I have to say I love this tire. I run the rear backwards and NEVER slip going up rock faces, even if they are a bit clogged with mud. Don't really notice much rolling resistance issues either. I've thought about switching to a different tire, but I just can't justify it. Its my back up bike, I ride a 27.5+ full sus for normal rides, but when it gets a bit greasy, I always grab the Vidar's.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Enoch,

Any chance at a pic or 2 in the fork and overall on the bike? What size rim are you using on front?


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

G-Live said:


> Enoch,
> 
> Any chance at a pic or 2 in the fork and overall on the bike? What size rim are you using on front?


I'm using a Fox RLC32mm. I'll try to get a pic of it. It has as much room, if not more, as the Fat B Nimble. I posted on the previous page.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Cool,

good enough. I assume that is 30mm internal rim....


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

I just put a panaracer nimble 29x3.0 on which mesured out to only a 2.75 on my ibls 941 rims. The coolest part is that it fits into the rear of my 2013 Carbon 29er Stumpy Fsr evo, it already has a trax 29x3.0 on the front. I had to set it up with a tube for now. Riding around its amazing!


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

B-RAY said:


> I just put a panaracer nimble 29x3.0 on which mesured out to only a 2.75 on my ibls 941 rims. The coolest part is that it fits into the rear of my 2013 Carbon 29er Stumpy Fsr evo, it already has a trax 29x3.0 on the front. I had to set it up with a tube for now. Riding around its amazing!


Please post pics of the rear.


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

I will have some pictures for u in the morning. I can't seem to add a picture from my phone is there a special way too? I have done it from a cpu before.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

B-RAY said:


> I just put a panaracer nimble 29x3.0 on which mesured out to only a 2.75 on my ibls 941 rims. The coolest part is that it fits into the rear of my 2013 Carbon 29er Stumpy Fsr evo, it already has a trax 29x3.0 on the front. I had to set it up with a tube for now. Riding around its amazing!


Good to hear it fits for now. Keep an eye on it though, those Panaracer tires will stretch alot with use as the casing is very thin. Don't be surprised if the width increases by 3mm-4mm!


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

Were u able to mount it up tubeless?


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Enoch,
Any word on the Vidar regarding additional tire growth causing fork issues or still good?

Greg


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

So I'm ditching the Maxxis Chronicles after some really terrible customer service. What are my options for something that is available now, tubeless ready, and durable. I won't ever buy another Maxxis product, so I need something that can get me back rolling again. 

The Chupacabras sound awesome, but they seem hard to find in stock. 

BTW if anyone wants a nearly new (less than 10 rides) 120 tpi Chronicle let me know. I will let it go cheap


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tim_w_sage said:


> So I'm ditching the Maxxis Chronicles after some really terrible customer service. What are my options for something that is available now, tubeless ready, and durable. I won't ever buy another Maxxis product, so I need something that can get me back rolling again.
> 
> The Chupacabras sound awesome, but they seem hard to find in stock.
> 
> BTW if anyone wants a nearly new (less than 10 rides) 120 tpi Chronicle let me know. I will let it go cheap


What happened? I'm still enjoying the Vidars - hold air better than any other "tubeless ready" tires I've used. But they're too ghetto for many I'd guess.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

SS Hack said:


> What happened? I'm still enjoying the Vidars - hold air better than any other "tubeless ready" tires I've used. But they're too ghetto for many I'd guess.


I had a tear develop below the bead mounting area, as in not exposed to "road hazards". Maxxis has had my tire for over a month, then finally emailed me back saying they would send me a new tire. Then I got a letter in the mail stating that it was a road hazard failure and they would not cover it. When I called this morning the customer service lady informed me they had made a mistake when she emailed me telling me it was covered.

Keep in mind I had around 1000 miles on my 120 tpi knards with no cuts or tears and I have heard plenty of people complain about the durability of those. The Maxxis tire incident happened while riding on a forest road after maybe 20 miles of total use on the tire.

I did like the bang for the buck of the gravity tires, I was just wondering how the tubeless setup would be with the hugo rims. I may just give those a try


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tim_w_sage said:


> I did like the bang for the buck of the gravity tires, I was just wondering how the tubeless setup would be with the hugo rims. I may just give those a try


I'm running Vidars on Hugos and they set up well and I can go a couple weeks without adding air. I've always had to add air weekly with fancy tires. Try them out at least as a stop gap measure.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

SS Hack said:


> I'm running Vidars on Hugos and they set up well and I can go a couple weeks without adding air. I've always had to add air weekly with fancy tires. Try them out at least as a stop gap measure.


Awesome to hear, what are the specifics on your tubeless setup if you don't mind me asking? With the Chronicles I was running one wrap of gorilla tape and the stans rim strip.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

My vidars gashed after a few rides. I fixed it with seam grip, but I have put them on my lesser used bike so I wont be stuck out in the woods with an inoperable bike. The tire I currently use is a 3.0 trax fatty. It looks like it is too small for the rabbit holes. The casing extends out past the tread quite a bit. Is there a durable tire that has more volume and rides like the vidars? I would like something with 3.2 width but it sounds like all the tires max out at 3. Is there a 3.0 tire that is more like 3.2?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

tim_w_sage said:


> Awesome to hear, what are the specifics on your tubeless setup if you don't mind me asking? With the Chronicles I was running one wrap of gorilla tape and the stans rim strip.


I bought a Hugo wheelset that came pre-tapped. I had trouble seating the Vidars with a floor pump and was forced to buy a cheapo pancake air compressor to do the job. But with the compressor they aired up fine. I used 2 scopes of Stan's instead of the normal 1 for normal 29er tires. I don't live in super rocky area, but they are holding up well.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

The Bomboloni is working good as a front tire so far. I've been running it out at Downieville and plan to race it there this coming weekend at the Classic.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

yogiprophet said:


> The Bomboloni is working good as a front tire so far. I've been running it out at Downieville and plan to race it there this coming weekend at the Classic.


I would think the Bomboloni would be a great tire for Downieville. Little thicker casing to handle the rocky terrain better. Slightly smaller volume for speed. 

What are you using on the back?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

TuTone T said:


> I would think the Bomboloni would be a great tire for Downieville. Little thicker casing to handle the rocky terrain better. Slightly smaller volume for speed.
> 
> What are you using on the back?


I just signed up for the All Mountain Cat. last week. I didn't even know I would be doing the race and I am staying a yoga retreat that is only 45 minutes away. Super stoked to try the 29+ for that terrain. It seems perfect to me. 
I'm running a Bontrager 29-4 in the rear. It is just what I had on it and I live in NM so I won't be changing it out. Although I think it will work fine, I prefer the Continental Mountain King 2.4".


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

So the current 29+ choices are:

FBN
Chronicle
Chupacabra
DW
Vidar
Kñard
Trax Fatty

Bomboloni (available?)

Others available now? In the pipeline?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Does a B+ qualify as 29+ cuz thats what it measures!....

Vee Traxx Fatty 3.25 on B+ carbon 50mm rim (43mm internal) at about 15 psi:

3.20 inches wide- tires still fairly new with around 60 miles

29 1/8 inches high - tubeless

:thumbsup:


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Does a B+ qualify as 29+ cuz thats what it measures!....
> 
> Vee Traxx Fatty 3.25 on B+ carbon 50mm rim (43mm internal) at about 15 psi:
> 
> ...


Is this a new batch that's closer to spec? Really good news if it is true.

mike


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

senor_mikey said:


> Is this a new batch that's closer to spec? Really good news if it is true.
> 
> mike


I don't think that info is anything new. The VTF 3.25 is easily the biggest B+ tire out there, and he has it mounted on a 50mm rim. Sounds like a fun combo to me, but far from 29+. Some of the bigger normal 29er tires are bigger than 29 1/8" in diameter. 29+ tires are around 31" in diameter.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We roll Dirt Wizards on our tandem, 350# team, it has been a great tire, super durable, reasonable weight, awesome traction. I'm suprised more folks aren't running them considering all the other brand tire failures reported in this thread.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2015)

bikeny said:


> 29+ tires are around 31" in diameter.


 Sure, all of them.

A large 29er tire is 740mm in outer diameter, or 29 1/8. That's why the VTF is the size it is, it's no coincidence. Tread depth can add 1/2" to that so you could measure around 29 1/2 for the largest 29ers.

29+ is about 20mm larger than a 29er, or around 760mm, nearly 30". Adding full tread can push them to 300 1/4 or even 30 1/2, not 31". If there's a 31" tire out there I'd like to measure its casing thickness, but for sure that's NOT the size for 29+ generally.

B+ is 38mm smaller than 29+ for the same tire. The largest B+ tires close that gap by about 15mm leaving them an inch shorter, not two.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

I am currently running the knards on my rabbit hole equipped krampus. They are wearing down. 

Winter is coming. So that means snow/snot mud. I am thinking of getting a DW on the back and maybe a chupacabra on the front. Does this sound like a winning combination? Maybe DW on front and back? I probably wont go tubeless anytime soon on this bike. Thanks.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I think the bigger the tire, the bigger the benefits of going tubeless. I would put a DW on the front and move your current Knard on the front to the rear. Ride that for while and then either get another DW or a Chupacabra.

I have a 26x3.8 Knard on the rear of my fat bike where it works well, but I like something with a little better cornering up front.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks Welnic. I guess I could try ghetto tubeless out to drop that pressure and fatten up that contact patch. 

I found that the knard slipped a lot and did not get the traction on the back, and washed out hard on the front. Maybe I need to keep more weight on the back...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

worldskipper said:


> Only option right now is a maxxis Grifter, it's a 29x2.5, someone already got a set for his krampus, haven't seen any ride reports though.


Look at the Geax tattoo's, 29 x 2.3 . Not quite the size you are looking for but nice and big on my velocity 35MM rims. Hookworm like tread pattern.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

boogar73 said:


> I found that the knard slipped a lot and did not get the traction on the back, and washed out hard on the front. Maybe I need to keep more weight on the back...


The 29+ Knard is not a great tire for aggressive MTBing - especially if it gets wet. Doesn't matter what pressures you run. It just doesn't have the knobs to corner hard or dig in.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> We roll Dirt Wizards on our tandem, 350# team, it has been a great tire, super durable, reasonable weight, awesome traction. I'm suprised more folks aren't running them considering all the other brand tire failures reported in this thread.


I will use one on the front of my Krampus, but the first time I put them through the rock ringer on my FS bike they failed me so never again in those conditions. The sidewalls are way too thin for the amount of grip they are capable of and so fold under the stress....unless you really ramp up the pressure which defeats the purpose somewhat.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

yogiprophet said:


> I will use one on the front of my Krampus, but the first time I put them through the rock ringer on my FS bike they failed me so never again in those conditions. The sidewalls are way too thin for the amount of grip they are capable of and so fold under the stress....unless you really ramp up the pressure which defeats the purpose somewhat.


Surly released the xc version* that we're all riding to quell the demand to some extent. There are burlier casigned versions coming, and maybe even softer compound options too.

So to say, yes, this current version is light, squirmy, and fragile compared to what's en route. Don't write 'em off just yet.

* = my term, my opinion


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

mikesee said:


> Surly released the xc version* that we're all riding to quell the demand to some extent. There are burlier casigned versions coming, and maybe even softer compound options too.
> 
> So to say, yes, this current version is light, squirmy, and fragile compared to what's en route. Don't write 'em off just yet.
> 
> * = my term, my opinion


That is good to know. 
Thanks!


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

*Some measurements*

Doing some measuring of unmounted tires out of curiosity. Mounted estimated widths are using some assumptions around a 45mm internal width rim:

Fat B nimble: Nominal 3.0 Actual: 6.75" Mounted (est.): 2.66
Traxx Fatty: Nominal 3.0 Actual: 7.2" Mounted (est.): 2.80
Vidar (wire bead): Nominal 3.0 Actual: 7.4" Mounted (est.): 2.87
Conti X-King: Nominal 2.4 Actual: 6.0" Mounted (est.): 2.42 or (30mm rim) 2.23

If stretch is assumed to be 5%, then the Vidar is a true 3.0", the Traxx is 2.9-ish and the Nimble is 2.75. The Conti is then 2.5 on the 45mm and 2.3 on the 30mm. My experience is that the thinner-walled tires stretch more than that (e.g. the Contis come out to a full 2.4 after a while on a 30mm rim) and the thicker ones (e.g. the Traxx) don't stretch much at all.

No huge conclusion here- I'm just trying to pick rim width for my next wheel build.


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

Surprising, not a whole lot of mention of the Bombolonis! Definitely the best plus tire we've used to date (new england xc/trail). The lead design from Vittoria is a brain drain from Maxxis so it's not much of a limb to go out on.

Not a big fan of the DWs on off camber rock, also didn't really like the 2" slash in the sidewall after mile 3, but they're my second favorite for sure.

One thing's for sure, after playing with the new stuff, I feel the Knard isn't quite as bad as we kept saying...


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## Noah_Deuce (May 31, 2006)

Anyone with experience running various rim widths care to comment on changes in roll over? 
I know the narrower rim means the tire is narrower, but how does it affect the diameter?


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Could a fat b nimble be mounted safely on a narrow rim i.e. Bonty Mustang or similar?

G


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

G-Live said:


> Could a fat b nimble be mounted safely on a narrow rim i.e. Bonty Mustang or similar?
> 
> G


Safe- with the right pressure, sure. Desirable? Probably not.

The whole point of the big tires is to run lower pressure but a big tire on a narrow rim at low pressure has so much lateral give/deformation under side loads the handling is very squirrelly. Get the pressure up high enough to keep the lateral shifts minimized and you have basically lost all the advantage of the fatter tire and you'll have similar performance to a more conventional tire only with more weight.

No way to effectively try out 29+ without a wide rim wheelset (and frame clearance), unfortunately.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Thanks,

Likely not going to use a larger tire long on the skinny rim but will probably get it before I get the wheel re-done so was hoping its ok to try.

G



SVO said:


> Safe- with the right pressure, sure. Desirable? Probably not.
> 
> The whole point of the big tires is to run lower pressure but a big tire on a narrow rim at low pressure has so much lateral give/deformation under side loads the handling is very squirrelly. Get the pressure up high enough to keep the lateral shifts minimized and you have basically lost all the advantage of the fatter tire and you'll have similar performance to a more conventional tire only with more weight.
> 
> No way to effectively try out 29+ without a wide rim wheelset (and frame clearance), unfortunately.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

So I decided to try the Vee Trax Fatty again after the first one I got, when they first came out, got a tear through the casing after only 20 some miles. The tear was on the top next to transition knob. It happened in pretty rocky terrain, but I had never had ANY tire tear like that in many years of riding the same area. WEEEELLLLLLLLL, it happened again to the latest tire in 15 miles riding the same area, but on hard pack that had minimal rock. Actually, the first 8 miles of the ride was in really chunky terrain, and the tire performed wonderfully.:madman:

The odd thing to me is that both holes are right on the outside of the transition knob.

SO...call it unlucky, or whatever you want, but my final evaluation of this tire is that it apparently does not hold up in rocky terrain... I actually think it's a piece of crap.:nono::madmax:

First tire from my Gnarvester








The second tire from my Behemoth









__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Surly released the xc version* that we're all riding to quell the demand to some extent. There are burlier casigned versions coming, and maybe even softer compound options too.
> 
> So to say, yes, this current version is light, squirmy, and fragile compared to what's en route. Don't write 'em off just yet.
> 
> * = my term, my opinion


This is great news, any geustimated ETA on said tires?
I like the DW's but like many have said the sidewall is too fragile to run at low pressure, the tire squirm is un-nerving, as well as pinch flatted tire casing's if run tubeless.
Running them at 18-20 psi while waiting on burlier cased DW's to appear.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm also waiting for new dw to come to market, but in the meantime I'm super happy with chupas. Running 11psi front and 12 rear. Slightly more rolling resistance than knard but way grippier, better cornering, and surprisingly durable. 

Been riding them exclusively on notoriously tire shredding limestone trails in Austin for the last 10 months. Tubeless has been perfect and they have proven to be worth the extra dollars. 

Still, I'm ready to spring for the updated dw when they come out. Infinite grip sounds awesome.


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## mrh372 (Aug 9, 2013)

Bear Spleen said:


> Surprising, not a whole lot of mention of the Bombolonis! Definitely the best plus tire we've used to date (new england xc/trail). The lead design from Vittoria is a brain drain from Maxxis so it's not much of a limb to go out on..


I have a Bomboloni up front after getting a major slice in a Chupacabra. Still have a Chup out back with a small slice that that didn't go the whole way through and I put an outside patch on to help protect it.

The Bomboloni seems to be showing much less sidewall wear than the Chup. Definitely happy with it so far. I would be curious to try it out back but I'll wait until the rear is unrepairable before buying another of these pricey tires...


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Anybody else get a Fat B TOO SMALL that has a HORRIBLY un true casing. I bought one a while back to try and finally put it on to fit a RS SID on the front of my Les SS. After 25 miles I had to take it off! The grip for a front tire is...eeeemm OKAY...it barely measures 2.6 on a Derby 35/29 rim, but the wobble in the tire was almost nauseating while riding. Took my wheel to the truing stand, knowing it was still in true, cause the tire was sooooooooo bad that I couldn't believe the casing could be the only cause. It was...


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi guys


Currently I ride my Krampus OSP with wheels Velocty Blunt 35then tires Maxxis Chronicle and I'd like to know if there was way to have even more broad and large tires by changing either the wheels or tires see if necessary the two!

I watched the Chupacabra Bontrager, who look more wide and bulky and for rims I'd like to stay on a models in Aluminium, not too heavy (-680gr), which is mountable tubeless acoustical and especially sturdy and reliable for my 105kgs +!

For those who have had the opportunity to test the krampus with wheels type Blunt 35 and also with rims more wide type ZTR Hugo or Surly Rabbit Hole I'd like to have your opinion on the significant differences between two rims more or less wide!

Thanks in advance for your information and experiences!

Sorry for my very random English...


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## gosts (Sep 13, 2015)

what is the widest tire that i should run on a 29 rim (wtb frequency i25) that is 25mm inside width, assuming clearance is no issue?
thanks!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

You could run any 29+ tyre, but it'll be far from ideal IMHO. I have the ST i25s and I've tried 29+ tyres on them and have a set of Duakky45 wheels for proper 29+ fitment and I'd only use the narrow rims to get a small feel for 29+, other than that if you want to run 29+ properly, get some at least 30mm IW.



gosts said:


> what is the widest tire that i should run on a 29 rim (wtb frequency i25) that is 25mm inside width, assuming clearance is no issue?
> thanks!


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## Gunslinger (Jun 11, 2004)

*29+ Panaracer Fat B nimble "WOBBLE"*

Anybody else having trouble with these tire not been true?
Both of mine front and rear have got at least a 3mm wobble in them which makes them not fit very well in the MRP stage forks I have.

Did I get 2 duds? Or is it because of the light weight casing of the tire?

Thinking of selling the MRP's as the clearance is way to minimal. The fox 34 27.5 + forks seem to be able to run 29+ with more clearance. Shame about the MRP's as they are super smooth forks.

Cheers


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## gosts (Sep 13, 2015)

thanks lynx. can anyone suggest one of the 3" max width 29+ tires that would work best with a narrower rim? I'm thinking a 2.8 or one of the narrower 3.0 tires would be best with my narrower rim.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

i don't think a 29x2.8 tire even exist.
as long as i know the panaracer fat b nimble 29x3.0 is the smallest of the 29+.


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Speaking of the Panaracer FBN, it's now available in EU at a good enough price to make me consider to buy a pair to give it a try.

Any experiences on:
- how it mounts tubeless (Flow EX here)
- how it rolls compared to an Ardent 2.4
- how bigger it is than an Ardent 2.4

Let me say I really like my Ardents, but wouldn't mind a little more volume


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Speaking of the Panaracer FBN, it's now available in EU at a good enough price to make me consider to buy a pair to give it a try.
> 
> Any experiences on:
> - how it mounts tubeless (Flow EX here)
> ...


It mounts tubeless easily. It feels faster rolling. Sorry didn't measure size difference, but barely 2.6 on a 35/29 Derby rim. See my earlier post; I rode it maybe 25 miles and couldn't take the horrible wobble in the casing. Very thin, so it probably wouldn't have lasted in my terrain, but it's a fail all the way around as a plus tire.

Here's a few pics Fat B skinny on front and 2.4 ardent back:
























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Doesn't look that bigger compared to the Ardent


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## Puzman (Apr 1, 2004)

I tried a FBN on a Stan's Flow EX. I wasn't able to get it to mount tubeless with a floor pump, but if you have a compressor it might go. With a tube it measured 2.7". It rolled fast (about like an Ardent) and offered maybe a little better rollover/traction. It has very thin sidewalls and running it tubeless on very rocky terrain is asking for trouble. I'm currently running a Gravity Vidar with a tube on the same rim. Measures a true 3.0", rolls over everything like a monster truck. Yes, it's heavy, but I love this tire.


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

MTB Pilot said:


> It mounts tubeless easily. It feels faster rolling. Sorry didn't measure size difference, but barely 2.6 on a 35/29 Derby rim. See my earlier post; I rode it maybe 25 miles and couldn't take the horrible wobble in the casing. Very thin, so it probably wouldn't have lasted in my terrain, but it's a fail all the way around as a plus tire.
> 
> Here's a few pics Fat B skinny on front and 2.4 ardent back:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a SID on the front right? What other Tires have you fit in there? I'm curious because I've got a Reba that I'd like to fit some bigger tires in.


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## sealcove (Apr 26, 2004)

It's an optical illusion. All the pictures of the Ardent where closer to the camera, hence it appears larger optically when compared to the FBN. I've mounted both and the FBNs are markedly more bulbous than the Ardent, more so than say the Chupa is over the same FBN. I've used all three and settled on the Chupa up front and the FBN in the rear. Quality control on the FBN is still an open issue - I bought 4 FBNs and chose the one with the least wobble.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Quick question:

What's the biggest 29+ tire available and what does it measure B2B?


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

A couple of weeks ago I finished off 2300 miles on the Great Divide, on my Krampus. I'm a laid-back tourer, and carry more stuff than some other riders. This was not a lean mean Tour Divide setup; I had a front Revelate roll, and racks and panniers on the rear. 

The first part, Banff to Steamboat Springs, 1700 miles, I did on Chupacabras. What great tires those are. I ran them at 10 psi front, 12 psi rear, tubeless, and never had a minute's trouble. I may have pumped them up once. They did everything right: they softened up the rough stuff while handling like champs on the pave. The other people riding with me were jealous of how I could descend without a care when the dirt roads got bumpy. I love those tires.

The rear tire was getting mighty worn down (they weren't new in Banff) so I switched both tires over to Maxxis Chronicles in Steamboat, figuring I wasn't getting another chance to replace either tire before the Mexican border. I chose the Chronicles faute de mieux; that's what I could get.

I could never find a pressure I liked for the Chronicles. The choice was between too mushy (squishy on the dirt, sluggish on pavement) and too hard (bouncy and unforgiving on dirt, adequate on pavement), never the soft cushy pressure that floated me through the bumps while speeding me on the pave that I'd had with the Chupas. 

I like Knards too, but Chupas set up tubeless better for me. After these Chronicles wear out, I'm never putting a Chronicle on my bike again.


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

Now I am wondering how do you like the Fat B Nimbel? Did you have had any chance to ride them?


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

boblike, For me (assuming that your post was a reply to mine) I don't see what the Fat B Nimble would have to offer me. To be sure, it's lighter, but it's lighter because it's smaller. I prefer the bigger cross-section of a true 29x3.

I guess maybe I'd find that the somewhat smaller volume of the Fat B Nimble was still adequately big. But at present I don't intend to make the experiment.


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## perfectbike (Aug 12, 2014)

I ran the Fat B Nimble 27.5x3.0 on my Roval 30mm internal width 6Fattie FSR rear recently. Because of probably rim width, my weight, sidewalls, compound...the tire was super sketchy. I had to run 19psi or it would fold over versus the OEM at 15psi (or a touch less). The OEM is the Ground Control. The FBN didn't have a lot of grip in the dry. As the dew settled on buff singletrack there was NO grip. I mean hanging the back end out, like ice. So for me and my setup, that tire is off. I tried it because I put a small cut in the Ground Control sidewall (since radial patched). Was nice to have a lighter tire to climb but the rest didn't work for me.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Been riding my DWs on a Mutz for the past week, just to see how 29+ compares to 650+. The DWs actually rode quite a bit firmer than my Purgatory, even aired down to 10psi; I run the Purgs at 12-14psi.

The 29+ certainly acceletates fast on a downhill, so much so that i had to work hard to stay ahead of the tire. On tight terrain they were more work to manage, but on wide open or high speed flow they were really fun.

If I lived in a place like Bend. A 29+ would be awesome, but where I live it's just to technical and tight for such a big wheel, which is why they went back on the tandem 

DWs are some nice tires, too bad they don't come in 650+; and too bad the 26" version sucks!


----------



## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Been riding my DWs on a Mutz for the past week, just to see how 29+ compares to 650+. The DWs actually rode quite a bit firmer than my Purgatory, even aired down to 10psi; I run the Purgs at 12-14psi.
> 
> The 29+ certainly acceletates fast on a downhill, so much so that i had to work hard to stay ahead of the tire. On tight terrain they were more work to manage, but on wide open or high speed flow they were really fun.
> 
> If I lived in a place like Bend. A 29+ would be awesome, but where I live it's just to technical and tight for such a big wheel.....!


Too many variables to make a blanket statement like that. Rims, HA, stem length, tire choice and more play into how it's going to handle. True, all things being equal of course the 29+ will be slower.

My Genius (29+ front) is really quick while my Krampus and Tallboy LT (29+ front) are not as quick. Same tire and rim on both FS bikes but the HA and fork offset is different along with the bike weight. But I like the Tallboy the way it is because it handles high speeds better than the Genius. The Krampus has a heavy ass Rabbit Hole rim which makes a huge difference in how it turns. All that rotating mass really makes a difference. The FS bikes have much lighter carbon rims. I raised the front end on the Krampus and it went from being really quick in the turns to much slower. It was as quick as any bike before but with only 60mm of travel....it was just not enough so I went to 100mm.


----------



## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

would a fox 36 29er have room enough for a Dirt Wizard 29x3 on a 35mm inner width rim?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

savo said:


> would a fox 36 29er have room enough for a Dirt Wizard 29x3 on a 35mm inner width rim?


Not sure about the fit, but not using a 50mm rim for the DW would not be optimal. Its sidewalls are too thin as it is to support such huge knobs.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

Does anyone see a problem with running a Chupacabra in reverse on the back?

I accidentally mounted it up this way tubeless and don't really want to have to change it.


----------



## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

I doubt you would notice much difference. It doesn't even have any directional ramps on the knobs like a Bomboloni. The reverse of the "V" in the knob spacing might even give you more traction but like I said doubt you could tell.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

BTI | Innova Transformers K tire, 29er x 3.0", blk

Looks like BTI is carrying the Innova 29+ tire now only they list it as the Pro Transformer instead of the Gravity. It also claims to have a folding bead instead of wire.

I have one on order and will post back whether the bead had indeed changed. I emailed Innova a while back and asked them if they would offer this tire in a Kevlar bead and never heard back from them.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

yogiprophet said:


> BTI | Innova Transformers K tire, 29er x 3.0", blk
> 
> Looks like BTI is carrying the Innova 29+ tire now only they list it as the Pro Transformer instead of the Gravity. It also claims to have a folding bead instead of wire.
> 
> I have one on order and will post back whether the bead had indeed changed. I emailed Innova a while back and asked them if they would offer this tire in a Kevlar bead and never heard back from them.


How much is this tire?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

crankpuller said:


> How much is this tire?


$38


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys 

Anyone tried CHronicles on rims ~32mm (LB).
I'm really curious about widh (if that will fit std Pike and Banshee frame)


----------



## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Is there a 29+ (29 x 3) road slick available? Because I would like that.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

I'm a 200 lb rider running 29 x3 knards tubeless on Nextie 50mm rims and having serious problems with durability, getting punctures in the tread between the knobs large enough that Stans wont seal them. Im not even riding that rough of trails, but am doing so at fairly high speeds. Last night I hit a rocky section at speed, got a puncture right in the center of the tread of the rear tire and had to walk out because the valve stem on my spare tube wasnt long enough to get through the deep Nextie rim. I really like the large volume of the knard and the way it eats up ground climbing, but I need something more durable for the descents

Is dirt wizard the answer (120 or 60)? Would Chupacabras be sufficient?


----------



## mrh372 (Aug 9, 2013)

rth009 said:


> I'm a 200 lb rider running 29 x3 knards tubeless on Nextie 50mm rims and having serious problems with durability, getting punctures in the tread between the knobs large enough that Stans wont seal them. Im not even riding that rough of trails, but am doing so at fairly high speeds. Last night I hit a rocky section at speed, got a puncture right in the center of the tread of the rear tire and had to walk out because the valve stem on my spare tube wasnt long enough to get through the deep Nextie rim. I really like the large volume of the knard and the way it eats up ground climbing, but I need something more durable for the descents
> 
> Is dirt wizard the answer (120 or 60)? Would Chupacabras be sufficient?


I have found the Bomboloni to be more durable than the Chupacabra. A little bit heavier but its lasting much better than the stock Chupacabras that came on my Stache. These are the only + tires I've ridden though so I can't compare to DW or knards.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Vidars are cheap and pretty durable.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

+1 on the vidars


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

As far as Dirt Wizard 60 tpi -the surly site says they are kevlar bead, but the only ones I can find for sale (universal cycles, modern bike) are steel bead. Has anyone seen any of the kevlar bead 60 tpi dirt wizards?

I also dont see any Vidar's for sale. Is that the same thing as the Innova Transformer?

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=76871&category=5793

Thanks for the help.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Looks like the same tire - mine was a steel bead though


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

I ordered 2 Bombolonis. I hate to shell out so much $$ when the Knards had so much tread left, but hopefully these will hold up better.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

2wTrekr said:


> Is there a 29+ (29 x 3) road slick available? Because I would like that.


Vee Tire company is coming out with a 29 x 2.8 Speedster.
http://veetireco.com/product/speedster-5/

Or you could buy someone's worn out Knards.


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

rth009 said:


> I also dont see any Vidar's for sale. Is that the same thing as the Innova Transformer?
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=76871&category=5793
> 
> Thanks for the help.


if the transformer isn't the same its very close based on the description, weight and tread pattern. i have been running the innova vidars for 6 months and i am liking them a lot. i bought them to get me by til the chupas where available but now thinking theres no need to change now.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

rth009 said:


> As far as Dirt Wizard 60 tpi -the surly site says they are kevlar bead, but the only ones I can find for sale (universal cycles, modern bike) are steel bead. Has anyone seen any of the kevlar bead 60 tpi dirt wizards?
> 
> I also dont see any Vidar's for sale. Is that the same thing as the Innova Transformer?
> 
> ...


 I just got the new Transformers. It looks to be exactly the same but with a Kevlar bead and about 100g lighter. 890g to be exact.

If you find a 60tpi Dirt Wizard with a Kevlar bead, please let me know. I want one too.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Welnic said:


> Vee Tire company is coming out with a 29 x 2.8 Speedster.
> http://veetireco.com/product/speedster-5/
> 
> Or you could buy someone's worn out Knards.


That's welcome news about the VEE Speedsters, and also thanks for the lead on the [treadbare] Knards. I think they'd work excellent as road/pavement commuter tires.


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## J79 (Oct 18, 2012)

Anyone had a go with the Vee Bulldozer? It should become available in 3.25x29.

BULLDOZER | VEE Tire Co.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Wow, I wonder how many frames will fit a 3.25" tire?



J79 said:


> Anyone had a go with the Vee Bulldozer? It should become available in 3.25x29.
> 
> BULLDOZER | VEE Tire Co.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

seat_boy said:


> Wow, I wonder how many frames will fit a 3.25" tire?


Depends if it's a 'real' 3.25!

Even if it is, I'm sure some frames will take it. There are probably a lot of riders with rigid forks that would be more than happy to give it a try as well.


----------



## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

bikeny said:


> Depends if it's a 'real' 3.25!
> 
> Even if it is, I'm sure some frames will take it. There are probably a lot of riders with rigid forks that would be more than happy to give it a try as well.


and there are alot of fat bike to 29+ "summer wheelset" conversions that might work real nice with the 3.25


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Are there any studded 29 plus out there?


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

honkonbobo said:


> and there are alot of fat bike to 29+ "summer wheelset" conversions that might work real nice with the 3.25


It would easily fit in the rear of my Ventana El Gordo. No problem with a 29x3 knard with the sliding dropouts are all the way forward. Depending on the actual size of the tire, and that is the ultimate question, it'd be a tough fit in the Bluto though. Methinks most rigid fatty forks would be no problem


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## gosts (Sep 13, 2015)

i have a framed pro-x 29+ front wheel that i am trying to tubeless mount a panaracer fat B nimble 29x3 tire on. The bead diameter of the tire seems way large for the rim, and i am failing. It will seat with a tube. Anyone have any issues with this rim being slightly under diameter or the tire being slightly over diameter? Anyone had luck mounting this rim tubeless? any alternate tire suggestions?
thanks!


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

gosts said:


> i have a framed pro-x 29+ front wheel that i am trying to tubeless mount a panaracer fat B nimble 29x3 tire on. The bead diameter of the tire seems way large for the rim, and i am failing. It will seat with a tube. Anyone have any issues with this rim being slightly under diameter or the tire being slightly over diameter? Anyone had luck mounting this rim tubeless? any alternate tire suggestions?
> thanks!


Have you tried this procedure: seat the bead with a tube, remove the tube while leaving one side seated, install the tubeless valve stem, remove the valve stem core, and then use an air compressor to seat the other bead while using hands, feet and legs to push the tire close to the rim in as many places as possible

Surly 29+ knards were way loose on my Nextie 50mm rims, but the above procedure worked.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I have had very good luck using an old motorcycle trick, using a ratchet or cam strap around the very middle of the tire, slowly tightening the strap keeping it centered with persuasion I can push the beads to the edge of the rim. 
The strap will be hard to keep centered.

I have succsefuly used this on Vidars, Dirt Wizards, and every tubeless setup that did not want to seat right or well, including lawn tractors, trailer tires and Motorcycles.
I have never had to use the "build up" technique to get a tire to seat.
Zero problems with my current Nextie 50mm though, tires just "snap" into place.
Good luck, it can be a PITA with loose beads, or too small rims.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

Bomboloni is about 40 grams heavier and fits much tighter than a Knard. You can tell from look and feel that it'll hold air tubeless much better. With any luck it will be more durable too.

Center knobs are small but the side knobs are much bigger than Knard. Flatter profile than Knard as well.

I think I can get it to seat with a floor pump after seating one side with a tube, but I'll need a second set of hands to do so


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## quadmania (Dec 9, 2013)

I have Fatboy with Bluto and I would like to move to 29+. I only have concern about the 3.0 size for the front. Bluto doesn't provide a large space for the tire. Have you never tried to check if a 3.0 size does fit? Many thanks!


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

quadmania said:


> I have Fatboy with Bluto and I would like to move to 29+. I only have concern about the 3.0 size for the front. Bluto doesn't provide a large space for the tire. Have you never tried to check if a 3.0 size does fit? Many thanks!


Bluto fits a 29x3 knard on a 50mm rim fine. Its closer on some than others though

check out the " 29+ real tight on a Bluto!" thread on this forum


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

So question for you guys. I saw a b2b chart somewhere around here, but now I can't find it. I'm trying to find the "smallest" 29+ tire out there. Currently, I'm using the IKON 2.35 on my 25mm inside wide china carbons and would love something in the IKON style in a 2.5-2.8. This is for my 2015 Kona Raijin hardtail where I'd like just a little more cush because of the hardtail.

I bought a Bomboloni to try out, and it's just a SMIDGEN too big for my bike. The tire carcass actually fits perfect, with plenty of room in the regular Rockshox SID fork as well as my frame. The side knobs jut out though, and while they are good to go while just spinning the tire, once I lean on the bike in corners, I'm getting some "braaps" as they hit the frame after sidewall flex. 

Anything out there that is either a) slightly smaller than a Bomboloni or b) something similar size but without the bigger side knobs? This is for a bikepacking application, so I'm not worried at all about big side wall knobs for cornering traction, as it's a 50lb loaded bike that I'm a bit "safe" with around corners


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

trhoppe said:


> So question for you guys. I saw a b2b chart somewhere around here, but now I can't find it. I'm trying to find the "smallest" 29+ tire out there. Currently, I'm using the IKON 2.35 on my 25mm inside wide china carbons and would love something in the IKON style in a 2.5-2.8. This is for my 2015 Kona Raijin hardtail where I'd like just a little more cush because of the hardtail.
> 
> I bought a Bomboloni to try out, and it's just a SMIDGEN too big for my bike. The tire carcass actually fits perfect, with plenty of room in the regular Rockshox SID fork as well as my frame. The side knobs jut out though, and while they are good to go while just spinning the tire, once I lean on the bike in corners, I'm getting some "braaps" as they hit the frame after sidewall flex.
> 
> Anything out there that is either a) slightly smaller than a Bomboloni or b) something similar size but without the bigger side knobs? This is for a bikepacking application, so I'm not worried at all about big side wall knobs for cornering traction, as it's a 50lb loaded bike that I'm a bit "safe" with around corners


Here's the thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/bead-bead-mtb-tire-measurement-959767.html

Here's the table (courtesy of http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=314146 Give him some rep): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dJpZsY3X_jR6N1TuYwz_clONUs0na2B1XaCaUIctX6U/edit?pli=1#gid=0

There are about a dozen tires with b2b measurements between the Bomboloni and the Ikon 2.35.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Sweet, thanks for the links!

Looks like pretty much all those "tweeners" are just big daddy trail tires vs something more XC/lighter focused. I can't push a Goma for 500 miles across Colorado  And the Renegade is actually TOO light 

Man, wish Maxxis came out with a 2.8 IKON or something of the sort. I'm sure that something else will come up in the next 6 months. 

In the meantime, I've gotta hunt down a set of i35 650b wheels locally so I can give the Trailblazer and Bridger a try. I think those might match up to the same height that my IKON 2.35s are on my i25 29er wheels, so those could be exactly what I needs.

-Tom


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

trhoppe said:


> Sweet, thanks for the links!
> 
> Looks like pretty much all those "tweeners" are just big daddy trail tires vs something more XC/lighter focused. I can't push a Goma for 500 miles across Colorado  And the Renegade is actually TOO light
> 
> ...


Schwalbe announced some 2.8 and 3.0 tires a while back, but I don't think they will be available until next year.

And no, a Trailblazer or Bridger will not be as tall as your current setup. The Bridger will be closer, but still probably 15mm-20mm smaller diameter.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks. I re-looked at that and you're right. Looks like the Trailblazer is ~727 or so, with the Bridger/Trail Boss coming in a little taller. My IKON is ~744 or so.

I called the local Spesh shop and they being super cool in that I can come test fit some of the 650b+ wheel/tire combos on my hardtail. Woot!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Here's a CST BFT next to a Maxxis Chronicle _(Chronicle was on a Dually45 and BFT on WTB i25, hence the narrower width of the BFT)._ Got this to test a while back, much prefer it to the Chronicle, only thing is wish it was the folding bead version as it's a "tad" heavier than the Chronicle folding. Tread does not self steer like the Chronicle, rolls really well, corners amazing.









In my rigid KM fork.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

trhoppe said:


> Thanks. I re-looked at that and you're right. Looks like the Trailblazer is ~727 or so, with the Bridger/Trail Boss coming in a little taller. My IKON is ~744 or so.
> 
> I called the local Spesh shop and they being super cool in that I can come test fit some of the 650b+ wheel/tire combos on my hardtail. Woot!


You might have a problem fitting the wheels. Most of new Plus bikes use Boost hubs (148mm rear and 110mm front). Your Raijin uses standard 135mm rear and probably 100mm front.


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Actually Maxxis does have that tyre slated to be released soon Randoms Round One - Eurobike 2015 - Pinkbike

Rekon 2.8" 650B+









Ikon 2.8" 650B+











trhoppe said:


> Sweet, thanks for the links! Man, wish Maxxis came out with a 2.8 IKON or something of the sort. I'm sure that something else will come up in the next 6 months.


They won't, the TB on a Flow comes up to 28.5", so on an i35 it'll actually loose a tad bit of height/diameter, quite shy of the Ikon 2.35" on a WTB i25 rim which is 29.25".



trhoppe said:


> In the meantime, I've gotta hunt down a set of i35 650b wheels locally so I can give the Trailblazer and Bridger a try. I think those might match up to the same height that my IKON 2.35s are on my i25 29er wheels, so those could be exactly what I needs.
> 
> -Tom


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Actualy Maxxis does have that tyre slated to be released soon.


In 29"? If so this is good news, I've been kinda hoping to see some 2.7-2.8" width 29er tires come to market.

or are you referring to the 27.5+ Ikon?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Right now they've announced them in 650B+, but I'm fairly certain that we'll be seeing them or similar in 29+ sometime soon. Personally I'm looking for 3.5" 29+ now for the front of my rigid to pair with either a TB 2.8 650B+ on i35 or 2.4-2.5" normal 29er on an i35.


nitrousjunky said:


> In 29"? If so this is good news, I've been kinda hoping to see some 2.7-2.8" width 29er tires come to market.
> 
> or are you referring to the 27.5+ Ikon?


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

trhoppe said:


> Sweet, thanks for the links!
> 
> Looks like pretty much all those "tweeners" are just big daddy trail tires vs something more XC/lighter focused. I can't push a Goma for 500 miles across Colorado  And the Renegade is actually TOO light
> 
> ...


Why not the Fat B Nimble? I run Ikon 2.35s on one bike and while I have limited time on the Nimble, if you use it with an appropriate rim width I bet it will be tough enough.


----------



## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

LyNx said:


> Here's a CST BFT next to a Maxxis Chronicle _(Chronicle was on a Dually45 and BFT on WTB i25, hence the narrower width of the BFT)._ Got this to test a while back, much prefer it to the Chronicle, only thing is wish it was the folding bead version as it's a "tad" heavier than the Chronicle folding. Tread does not self steer like the Chronicle, rolls really well, corners amazing.
> 
> View attachment 1026262
> 
> ...


Where do you get a 29" CST BFT? It is not listed on their website and nothing comes up when I google it.

Thanks.


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Unfortunately I don't know, as I said, mine is a proto and they were announced at the Taipei bike show, but have not seen them listed on the CST since that announcement, which is very unfortunate as they are an excellent tyre. Maybe shot CST an e-mail and see what they say. I've actually found it quite hard to find much CST anywhere online.



TooSteep said:


> Where do you get a 29" CST BFT? It is not listed on their website and nothing comes up when I google it.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Unfortunately I don't know, as I said, mine is a proto and they were announced at the Taipei bike show, but have not seen them listed on the CST since that announcement, which is very unfortunate as they are an excellent tyre. Maybe shot CST an e-mail and see what they say. I've actually found it quite hard to find much CST anywhere online.


Actually you didn't say...I went looking for it too.. oh, well.


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Sorry my English was not clear enough when I said "I got it to test", my bad.



SVO said:


> Actually you didn't say...I went looking for it too.. oh, well.


----------



## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Are 29+ tires taking longer to go from testing to market than 27.5+? It seems that way...although that's possibly just because I'm interested in 29+ and not in 27.5+.

(and a folding version of that BFT looks like exactly what I'm looking for, fwiw)


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

*Maxxis Grifter 29x2.5*

I saw some people were asking about the Maxxis Grifter. Since I only want to ride my 29+ bikes, I thought I would convert my old Vassago to an urban assault bike. The first step was to add the Maxxis Grifter 29x2.5.

Hopefully, I downloaded this picture correctly and you can see the tire compared to the Surly Knard on my Ros 9+.

I measured the height of the Maxxis Grifter on my Stans FLows to be about 29.5 inches tall. There is about a 1/2 inch clearance on the top of my Reba. The Stan's flow is 25.5mm internal width. So, your height on your rim might vary. I'd like to see this on a Blunt 35 and Dually for comparison.


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

*Maxxis Grifter 29x2.5 (top-view)*

Here is the view of the width of Maxxis Grifter on a Stans Flow next to the Surly Knard.

I just put these on. So, I don't have a ride review yet, other than that the rubber feels very supple (as in grippy), it rode nice around the block, they are lighter than the same size Maxxis Hookworms and they were easy to put on the rim.

The picture of Sandman29's shoes is an extra bonus in this image.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just installed a set of Vee Trax Fatties yesterday and they're nice and grippy compared to the Chup's I removed. Some ups some downs in comparison but the Vee's are a better suited tire for local conditions.
Tech stuff: 875 grams, 2.83" mounted on 50mm Mulefut rims at 14psi.

Question: Bead? Holy crap it's a bear getting these things off the wheel.
I went with tubes (yes, tubes, but that's not the issue here  )
It seems it's the stock rim tape on the Mulefuts that the bead gets hung up on, I can see the tape stretching when I was prying the bead loose.
Now that I'm using tubes and no longer need a rim seal, can I remove that thick rim tape and install something thinner to make things simpler? I'm a newb at these holey wheels so if you have some advice on types and brands that would be cool.
Thanks.


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

Since you are rolling tube, you don't need the tape at all, just the rim strip. BUT, it won't ease the job, Mulefut's bead are really good at locking tires... I would say keep the tape, you'll run tuneless soon... ;o)


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

new8812 said:


> Since you are rolling tube, you don't need the tape at all, just the rim strip. BUT, it won't ease the job, Mulefut's bead are really good at locking tires... I would say keep the tape, you'll run tuneless soon... ;o)


Thanks.
I grabbed a couple strips today in case I need them after removing the tape.
And I'll stick with tubes. 
What a mess cleaning all of that crap out of the Chups and off the wheel.
And with the recommended amount of sealant in 29+ and subsequent top-offs the weight savings are minimal. And Shhhh, I haven't had a flat in over 3 seasons of singletrack. I think our rocks are rounder here. :skep:


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Anyone have any luck or insight with the Chronicle/Dually combo on a 2016 Fox Float 34 fork?


----------



## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Anyone have any luck or insight with the Chronicle/Dually combo on a 2016 Fox Float 34 fork?


dunno about the chronicle dually combo but
50mm nextie rim with dirt wizards fit 
fine. Here it is with fork bottomed out.







This is a '16 fox float 34 27.5"+ fork


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Trailice said:


> dunno about the chronicle dually combo but
> 50mm nextie rim with dirt wizards fit
> fine. Here it is with fork bottomed out.
> View attachment 1027770
> ...


How wide is your tire? I was hoping to use the 29" Fox fork that doesn't require a boost hub so I could go back to rigid, but the little bit of info I've found tells me to get the same fork you have.


----------



## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> How wide is your tire? I was hoping to use the 29" Fox fork that doesn't require a boost hub so I could go back to rigid, but the little bit of info I've found tells me to get the same fork you have.


Chronicle's should be 76mm wide
DW's 120 tpi start at 73 and grow to 75
100 to 110 boost adapters are readily available on fleabay.
But this fork only comes in 110


----------



## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

SVO said:


> Why not the Fat B Nimble? I run Ikon 2.35s on one bike and while I have limited time on the Nimble, if you use it with an appropriate rim width I bet it will be tough enough.


Just saw this when I was looking back through the thread. Good call. I'm going to give those a shot. Found someone through FB that has a set locally, so I'll give it a try and see what happens with the fit. They seem to have less protruding tread blocks than the Bomboloni, so maybe they will work.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

As a follow up, stuck the Fat B Nimble on my ~25mm internal rims. They measure out to 2.6" on the tread blocks, fit perfect in my 2015 Kona Raijin and regular 100mm SID XX and are pretty great in packed snow at 15psi. 

I am now wishing for the 29er IKON 2.8 (I need tougher sidewalls than the Fat B Nimble) and possibly upgrading these rims to something that's ~30mm internal so that I can use a tire like this full time on my 29er.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Anybody heard of framed Minnesota 29x3?Framed 29+ Fat Bike Tire - Altrec.com
Edit: these are wire bead despite what the page says. I have mixed feelings about 120 tpi durability, but definitely don't want a wire bead mated to racey sidewalls. Sending back


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> Anybody heard of framed Minnesota 29x3?Framed 29+ Fat Bike Tire - Altrec.com


that is a relabeled Innova Transformer which BTI carries. That's a great price though!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

yogiprophet said:


> that is a relabeled Innova Transformer which BTI carries. That's a great price though!


Just opened the box and its wire bead! Sending back.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

i'm dumb.

Can someone please explain to me what I'm looking at on this page:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wz_clONUs0na2B1XaCaUIctX6U/edit#gid=0&vpid=A1

it's the MTB Casing sizes chart.

I get the 'format', and I assume the 'group' represents different sizes or some such. B2B is bead to bead, but I don't know how that works out to width.

What is the 'rated' column? Is that how wide, in mm, the tire is supposed to be?

I assume the 15, 20, 25, 30, etc are internal rim diameters and the number underneath is how wide the tire is on that particular rim?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

I didn't build it but it looks to be a table using assumptions about the relationship between rim width (external, I think) and resulting casing width for a bunch of tires. So the rim widths are across the top and the tires on the left and each square is an estimated casing width of that particular combination. I'd guess the dark boxes are actual measured results and the remainder are calculated.

Obviously this won't be perfectly accurate but good enough for tire clearance estimates and the like. Be better if internal widths were used.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

very interesting. So using, say, an Ibis 941 tire, the Chroncile or Chupacabra or Knard are about 2.83", and some of the beefier 2.4" tires like the Trail Boss 2.4 or Renegade 2.3 end up being close to 2.5"

that's good info, very good info.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Just ordered the Innova Pro Transformer. I will mount up and review. I better corner better than the knard or I will be uphappy.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

I just picked one up too, definitely bigger wider spaced knobs than the knard but kind of thin sidewall witch may have a say in how it performs. Haven't run mine yet. oh and $36.00, Hard to beat that.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> Just ordered the Innova Pro Transformer. I will mount up and review. I better corner better than the knard or I will be uphappy.


-------------

For what it is worth, I've been using the Innova 29 x 3.0 Gravity Vidar as a front tire (wanted to run them front and rear, but it was too wide for rear) all season and have been very happy with it.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Good to hear someone likes it! We are very warm and wet here in Wisconsin this winter, and I need a front tire to handle the mud, but wanted to keep the volume of the Knard. The Transformer matching the criteria the best imho. I will keep the knard on the rear.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

IMO, it corners better than any tire I have ever used with the exception of the DW when it is loose. Sidewalls are too thin to be used as a rear tire anyway.


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## Pjerm (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm looking for a 29 tire with a width somewhere between 2.5-2.75. I plan on using the royal traverse 29mm rims on my Enduro. Any suggestions?


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm trying to pick a new front wheel to mount a DW 29x3.0 on. A Stans Hugo has a 49mm ID. The Bontager Line plus TLR 29 has a 39mms ID. Which one would clear a Pike29 better?

Sent from my KFTHWA using Tapatalk


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dmo said:


> I'm trying to pick a new front wheel to mount a DW 29x3.0 on. A Stans Hugo has a 49mm ID. The Bontager Line plus TLR 29 has a 39mms ID. Which one would clear a Pike29 better?
> 
> Sent from my KFTHWA using Tapatalk


Both will be tight. Line+ will be slightly less so. Although the pressure you run the DW at will play a part too.


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

Or I could put them on a Easton Heist 30. They may fit better but wouldn't they roll and squirm more?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Unless the DW is an exceptionally huge tyre, from my experience with the Maxxis Chronicle and CST BFT, I'd say stick to a 35-39mm IW rim. Personally I'd opt to have the wheel custom built for how much either one of the options you listed cost using a WTB Asym i35 laced to the hub of your choice -_ I'd stick to a Hope Pro2, great value for your $$, especially for a front_.



dmo said:


> I'm trying to pick a new front wheel to mount a DW 29x3.0 on. A Stans Hugo has a 49mm ID. The Bontager Line plus TLR 29 has a 39mms ID. Which one would clear a Pike29 better?
> 
> Sent from my KFTHWA using Tapatalk


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

LyNx said:


> from my experience with the Maxxis Chronicle and CST BFT,


Neither of those tires in 29+ fit into a 29" Pike.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Assumed he was talking the new one, 2016, far as I know the 2016 has been given additional clearance to fit the bigger tyres. But yes, if talking the old Pike it has very little clearance even for big 29er rubber, best fit of a non boost fork/pre 2016 was the 2013 F34, 2014's need some material removed and not sure about 2015s. Of course there's the MRP Stage which seems to work just fine and Manitou IIRC, Trace is a no go with those tyres also.



mikesee said:


> Neither of those tires in 29+ fit into a 29" Pike.


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## Wig (Aug 24, 2014)

Just received my maxxis chronical tires... Look good, I'll do a follow up when I get them on. Think there is some mark up on these tires??? Each came with its own backpack


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Assumed he was talking the new one, 2016, far as I know the 2016 has been given additional clearance to fit the bigger tyres. But yes, if talking the old Pike it has very little clearance even for big 29er rubber, best fit of a non boost fork/pre 2016 was the 2013 F34, 2014's need some material removed and not sure about 2015s. Of course there's the MRP Stage which seems to work just fine and Manitou IIRC, Trace is a no go with those tyres also.


I could see the new boost ver of the Pike having clearance as long as they also increased the height under the arch. What about the 16, 100mm DO Pike? I have a 15 Pike and these tires are a no go no matter what pressure. I also have a Stage and an RS-1 and they both accept 29x3.0 tires easily. I'm really liking the Chupacabara up front with the Ikon 2.35 rear on my Derby 35's. Thanks for the suggestion in these Mikesee!


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

So can anyone offer a rough comparison of the rolling resistance of the Chronicle to the 2.4 Ardent? The Ardent has been my go-to for a few years now, and I need to replace one this spring. I figure the Chronicle might be a fun change, but it's a singlespeed and I don't want to add a ton more drag.

As long as it's roughly the same that's great, but on my 26er I went from an Ardent to a DW, and the DW is great but it's also sloooooow. Not something I want to do to my 29er.


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

newfangled said:


> So can anyone offer a rough comparison of the rolling resistance of the Chronicle to the 2.4 Ardent? The Ardent has been my go-to for a few years now, and I need to replace one this spring. I figure the Chronicle might be a fun change, but it's a singlespeed and I don't want to add a ton more drag.
> 
> As long as it's roughly the same that's great, but on my 26er I went from an Ardent to a DW, and the DW is great but it's also sloooooow. Not something I want to do to my 29er.


The Chronicle rolls as fast or faster than a 2.4 Ardent. Problem is, the Chronicle is not as good an overall tire as the Ardent. In the dry I would say they both perform well. When it starts to get muddy the Chronicle ups the pucker factor by a wide margin.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ thanks, that's great to know. Although I've always thought the Ardent was surprisingly terrifying in the wet. I'd figured the Chronicle would be better because it actually has some transition knobs, but I guess not.


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

So anyone find the vee bulldozer for sale or use one yet. Thinking about trying as a front tire on my stache with Manitou Magnum fork?


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Also interested to hear if anyone's got experience with the bulldozer. 

I'm curious too if anyone could let me know how sturdy the sidewalls are on the Innova Transformer. The Knards are like paper!

I think I remember reading that the tread compound on the Transformers was a race compound and stickier. Any issues with wearing quickly? 

Thanks!


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Sidewall on the innova transformer pretty thin. OK for front use but not on the back for me. Haven't used it that long. Bombaloni I got for the back has a thicker casing but not quite 3.0


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

That's what I was afraid of. Wonder if the 27 tpi surly casings are significantly sturdier...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Shinkers said:


> That's what I was afraid of. Wonder if the 27 tpi surly casings are significantly sturdier...


Most definitely they are


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Good to know and probably the way I'll eventually go...


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Also interested to hear if anyone's got experience with the bulldozer.
> 
> I'm curious too if anyone could let me know how sturdy the sidewalls are on the Innova Transformer. The Knards are like paper!
> 
> ...


He Innova wears very quickly, and yes to front only. Way too thin for rear and too thin for front if you are in sharp rocks. Other that that, it grips very well and light enough for a race tire.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah, it's off the list. 

Basically looking for as thick of sidewall as I can get without any auto steer.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Yeah, it's off the list.
> 
> Basically looking for as thick of sidewall as I can get without any auto steer.


Then Bomboloni is off too because it has very noticable auto steer. Great for a rear tire though.

The 60tpi Dirt Wizard is your best bet from my experience. It hooks up so amazingly!!!

I haven't tried the Maxxis Chronicle yet, but it would be the only other choice for you IMO.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Okay so there is tons of conflicting information out there...

I've read that the Dirt Wizards are made on the same uber thin casing that the Knard is. I'm assuming that's talking about the 120 tpi casings. 

The 60 tpi casing feels plenty sturdy? I rode a WTB Dissent that auto steered like it was possessed and the very similar tread of the Dirt Wizard concerns me. But I do like the volume and aggressive tread. 

I've also read that even the 27 tpi Knards still have a flimsy casing, as well as that they have a plenty sturdy casing. 

The sidewalls on my Vee Snowshoe 2xl were plenty thick, but it auto steered more than I could handle as well. It kind of put me off to their new Bulldozer offering, though the 3.25 width is appealing.

And I've not had much experience with the Chronicle other than a friend at the bike shop that said he preferred Knards. 

However those look to be my main options: 60 tpi Dirt Wizard, 27 tip Knard, Vee Bulldozer, or Chronicle. 

Weight is not an issue, durability is.

Would you still say DW? 

Thanks for the advice!


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I ride 60 tpi DW's at 15-16 psi and no auto steer.
I don't dare go lower psi due to rocks and riding style, might have a problem with auto steer at lower pressure. Don't know.
There is a stronger sidewall version of the DW coming out, supposed weight of 1380 grams.
Mine were 1280ish grams and the best "real meat" on any 29+ offering IMHO.
I will buy the 27 tpi DW for a rear tire if it ever actually happens.
The 120 tpi DW's would fold in corners at anything under 17 psi and the rear....
but only 1010 grams.
Highly recommend the tire(60 tpi),YMMV.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I mounted up the Pro Transformer and it is def a "race" weight tire. Very thin sidewalls compared to the 27tpi Knard it was replacing on the front of my Krampus.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

since innova makes surly's tires wouldn't it be safe to assume the 27tpi casings of surly tires are the same ones as on the innova tire?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Okay so there is tons of conflicting information out there...
> 
> I've read that the Dirt Wizards are made on the same uber thin casing that the Knard is. I'm assuming that's talking about the 120 tpi casings.
> 
> ...


I only have ride time experience with the older version of the 120tpi DW. The newer version has sidewall protection and a tubeless ready bead. 
From my experience, auto-steer is mostly a function of the tire's profile and somewhat the tread. The more square a profile (like the Bomboloni and Dissent), the more it will auto-steer. If it has a square profile and has tall tread, it will definitely auto-steer like crazy. When I went from the DW to the Bomboloni, it was like night and day. The Bombo was the first tire I had that auto-steered like that, but once I got used to it, it hooked up really well. The DW is still the king of hookup with no noticeable auto-steer.

BTW, there is no 27tpi DW - only the 60 and 120. They both now come with sidewall protection and TR bead. I would try the 60tpi DW. It should be awesome! I have a 60tpi original version sitting in my garage waiting for a wheel to be built and it is plenty sturdy. The tread on the Bulldozer and Chronicle can't even come close to comparing.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

yogiprophet said:


> From my experience, auto-steer is mostly a function of the tire's profile and somewhat the tread. The more square a profile (like the Bomboloni and Dissent), the more it will auto-steer. If it has a square profile and has tall tread, it will definitely auto-steer like crazy. When I went from the DW to the Bomboloni, it was like night and day. The Bombo was the first tire I had that auto-steered like that, but once I got used to it, it hooked up really well. The DW is still the king of hookup with no noticeable auto-steer.
> .


Although I didnt get a chance to ride my Bombolonis more than 100 or so miles before the snow fell and I switched to fatty wheels, I was impressed coming from Knards. I noticed a little auto-steer with the Bomboloni (tubeless on Nextie 50mm), but only on pavement. Also, Bomboloni has much better cornering traction and most importantly, does not puncture when descending rocky trails at speed like a knard. I got a a decent price too, at about $84 a piece, shipped.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

yogiprophet said:


> I only have ride time experience with the older version of the 120tpi DW. The newer version has sidewall protection and a tubeless ready bead.
> From my experience, auto-steer is mostly a function of the tire's profile and somewhat the tread. The more square a profile (like the Bomboloni and Dissent), the more it will auto-steer. If it has a square profile and has tall tread, it will definitely auto-steer like crazy. When I went from the DW to the Bomboloni, it was like night and day. The Bombo was the first tire I had that auto-steered like that, but once I got used to it, it hooked up really well. The DW is still the king of hookup with no noticeable auto-steer.
> 
> BTW, there is no 27tpi DW - only the 60 and 120. They both now come with sidewall protection and TR bead. I would try the 60tpi DW. It should be awesome! I have a 60tpi original version sitting in my garage waiting for a wheel to be built and it is plenty sturdy. The tread on the Bulldozer and Chronicle can't even come close to comparing.


Have never felt auto-steer on either Dissents or DWs, must be more to it.

Edit: Pic of Dissent on Halo Freedom disc and 60 TPI DW on Hugo pretty similar profile, unless the Dissent is on a stupid fat rim should be Ok, IIRC sidewall recommends 21-29mm ID on Dissent.


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## mrh372 (Aug 9, 2013)

rth009 said:


> Although I didnt get a chance to ride my Bombolonis more than 100 or so miles before the snow fell and I switched to fatty wheels, I was impressed coming from Knards. I noticed a little auto-steer with the Bomboloni (tubeless on Nextie 50mm), but only on pavement. Also, Bomboloni has much better cornering traction and most importantly, does not puncture when descending rocky trails at speed like a knard. I got a a decent price too, at about $84 a piece, shipped.


Where did you find Bomboloni for $84?


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

mrh372 said:


> Where did you find Bomboloni for $84?


Biketiresdirect.com


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Alright.60 tpi dirt wizard and a wtb scraper sound like the winning combo. That's what I'll be using...


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

From Surly's website.
If they might be real I do not know.
Probably 1450-1480 grams is my guess.


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## mrh372 (Aug 9, 2013)

rth009 said:


> Biketiresdirect.com


Thanks! They're back up to $119 now... $84 is an awesome deal. I've got a Bomboloni up front and love it.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

I rode Chronicles for a recent bikepacking trip that involved abrasive crushed lava, cinder, gravel, dry dirt, chunky, pointy lava, sand and some asphalt. I don't know an exact psi number, but I just ran them high enough for no wrinkles and only a few rim hits on the chunkier stuff. 

-Lots of traction on dry terrain
-good enough float
-No self steer
-Excellent durability

I rode a little bit of mud and wet rocks/roots before the tour and they performed acceptably, but not outstanding.


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## Ozmosis (Sep 22, 2005)

Shinkers said:


> Alright.60 tpi dirt wizard and a wtb scraper sound like the winning combo. That's what I'll be using...


Did you get these up and running yet? I just got a Scraper/60tpi Dirt Wizard and upon initial setup I'm noticing that when I lower the pressure, sealant is squirting out between the rim and the tire bead on any bump or just putting pressure on it. Just curious if this is a Scraper problem or a Dirt Wizard problem and if it's curable...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

what is the narrowest 29+ tire available? 

I'm trying to squeeze a big tire in the back of my Kona Unit. I only have 71mm to work with. the tire will be mounted on a "narrow" Stans Flow rim so that will help a little. 

I was hoping i could get a Dirt Wizard in there. from what i've read they are 67-68mm ish when new but end up stretching to 73mm ish which seems like a lot. (this assumes a 40-50mm rim)

I value grip over rolling resistance so i'm not looking for a file tread kind of tire.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

BENKD29 said:


> what is the narrowest 29+ tire available?
> 
> I'm trying to squeeze a big tire in the back of my Kona Unit. I only have 71mm to work with. the tire will be mounted on a "narrow" Stans Flow rim so that will help a little.
> 
> ...


On my Hugo rims the 60TPI DW stretched to about 82mm across the knobs. Don't think it'll go unless you use a really narrow rim which defeats the purpose really. Anyway, just as an experiment a week ago or so I took the DW wheel off my ROS9 Plus and put it on my regular ROS9 which has about 82mm widest clearance, the wheel went into the dropouts(with the right knob lineup) but couldn't be turned.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> what is the narrowest 29+ tire available?
> 
> I'm trying to squeeze a big tire in the back of my Kona Unit. I only have 71mm to work with. the tire will be mounted on a "narrow" Stans Flow rim so that will help a little.
> 
> ...


On my 50mm wheels the Vee Trax Fatty measures a bit more than 2.8" but I read somewhere else that on a 35mm wheel it measures 71mm.
It makes a good rear tire with its profile.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Ozmosis said:


> Did you get these up and running yet? I just got a Scraper/60tpi Dirt Wizard and upon initial setup I'm noticing that when I lower the pressure, sealant is squirting out between the rim and the tire bead on any bump or just putting pressure on it. Just curious if this is a Scraper problem or a Dirt Wizard problem and if it's curable...


Have them on Hugos with Orange Seal no issues from the gitgo, my first tubeless at that


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I can fit a Fat B Nimble in the back of my Karate Monkey.

I've tried a Knard, Dirt Wizard, Gravity Vidar, and the FBN, and the FBN was the only one that fit. This is on a Blunt 35 rim. I think it ran about 67mm wide (I've since moved the FBN to another rim because I need that wheel for another project, so I can't measure for sure)



BENKD29 said:


> what is the narrowest 29+ tire available?
> 
> I'm trying to squeeze a big tire in the back of my Kona Unit. I only have 71mm to work with. the tire will be mounted on a "narrow" Stans Flow rim so that will help a little.
> 
> ...


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## marekli (Feb 8, 2016)

I am considering a 2016 TREK Fuel EX 8, one thing that came up on the other forum was the option of 27+ and 29+ so I was wondering whether someone has more information specific for that 2016 EX29 model with boost re. the rim and tire options I might get for 27.5+ and 29+. That would definitely be a selling point for me so am a bit more curious but have little insight into this.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

not properly a mtb tire, but does anyone know anything about the Vee Rubber Speedster 29x2.8? is it actually available yet?


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

savo said:


> not properly a mtb tire, but does anyone know anything about the Vee Rubber Speedster 29x2.8? is it actually available yet?


When I was try to get 27.5 x 3.25 Vee Trax Fatty tires last winter I had a lot of online stores flagged to email me when the tires became available. But the first place I was able to get them from was from Vee Tire Co's own website. To check to see if they are available you have to try to buy them, when you add them to the cart you get the message that they are out of stock.

Link might work for while:
Vee Tire Co. Speedster 29x2.8


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

found a new (to me anyhow) tire on the vee rubber site:
Bulldozer 29 - 29 x 3.25

anyone have any info on these? how would they compare width wise to the chupacabra? Would they even fit on my stache?


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

Not sure...I'm going to try one and let you know. Amy idea if it better as a front or rear tire?


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

to me the tread looks like a good front tire and a decent back tire if you need something with tons of grip. prolly not the fastest rolling tires.

I had a vee rubber for a summer on my regular 29er. the tires seem pretty nicely built.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Welnic said:


> When I was try to get 27.5 x 3.25 Vee Trax Fatty tires last winter I had a lot of online stores flagged to email me when the tires became available. But the first place I was able to get them from was from Vee Tire Co's own website. To check to see if they are available you have to try to buy them, when you add them to the cart you get the message that they are out of stock.
> 
> Link might work for while:
> Vee Tire Co. Speedster 29x2.8


Thanks but veetire webshop only ships to USA address and I'm in europe...

29+ speedsters look to be available though, but I can't find them anywhere else


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

WANT 29ER Speedsters urgh sell them to me, can't find these anywhere in the uk


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Anyone knows maybe if Schwalbe plans ro introduce aone 29plus...maybe i missed some rumors?


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Trying not to start a new thread,

Anyone knows how the Chronicle compares to the 2.4 Ardent in the hardpack speed department?
Thanks


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## tsurun (Mar 13, 2009)

New Maxxis Tire Options at Taipei Cycle Show - 2016 Taipei Bike Show - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

OfficerFriendly said:


> WANT 29ER Speedsters urgh sell them to me, can't find these anywhere in the uk


I believe the Continental Contact Sport II has a similar tread pattern/texture. Don't know about the width options though.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

Placek said:


> Anyone knows maybe if Schwalbe plans ro introduce aone 29plus...maybe i missed some rumors?


I really wish that Schwalbe would re-stock the 
Super Moto - X (27.5+) tire in the 2.8 width...all I can find is the 2.4 option. Maybe there was a problem with the 2.8 ? I like the tire because it has the Big Apple type tread, but says SUPER MOTO -X on the side of it, like you are in "The War of the Superbikes"


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I just got thr maxxis grifter 2.5's. not many rides yet, but nice. ( I know not really plus but on i23 rims it measures 61mm)


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

meant to show this one


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

*This is VERY good news for 29+*

When do you think i will be able to get my hands on these?
Ohh i sooo want!


tsurun said:


> View attachment 1054706
> 
> New Maxxis Tire Options at Taipei Cycle Show - 2016 Taipei Bike Show - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

2wTrekr said:


> I really wish that Schwalbe would re-stock the
> Super Moto - X (27.5+) tire in the 2.8 width...all I can find is the 2.4 option. Maybe there was a problem with the 2.8 ? I like the tire because it has the Big Apple type tread, but says SUPER MOTO -X on the side of it, like you are in "The War of the Superbikes"


Go here:

tire super moto x 27,5x2,80 SCHWALBE Tyres, MTB 27.5+ Bike

Those look like really fun tires. I have no use for them, but want them anyway!


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Trying not to start a new thread,
> 
> Anyone knows how the Chronicle compares to the 2.4 Ardent in the hardpack speed department?
> Thanks


Not seeing a noticeable speed difference switching from a 2.4 Ardent to the Chronicle on the front of my bike.


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I got my first ride on my Innova Pro Transformers last night and I am really happy with them. Great traction on the dirt, and rolled really well on the 2.5 miles of bike path I ride to get to the trail. They measure just a hair over 3" wide on my 47mm rims. Not bad for $85 shipped for the pair, from universal cycles.


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

Thanks spartan! I've been real curious about that tire and will likely pull the trigger on a set.


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

A1an said:


> Not seeing a noticeable speed difference switching from a 2.4 Ardent to the Chronicle on the front of my bike.


Thanks
Any more experiences?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

wheelcool said:


> Thanks spartan! I've been real curious about that tire and will likely pull the trigger on a set.


Like a lot of the 29+ tires, the sidewalls are on the thin side which feels great but are easy to puncture.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

tsurun said:


> View attachment 1054706
> 
> New Maxxis Tire Options at Taipei Cycle Show - 2016 Taipei Bike Show - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB


Finally some awesome news. 
Hope also other like Shwalbe will choose this path. 
Anyone saw real pics of those Maxx?


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

So can anyone confirm if a 3" 29er Ikon is in the pipeline?


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## t-ruh (Jul 8, 2013)

3" 29 ikon in the front 2.8" 29 in the back would be an awesome set up


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

what are the largest non-plus tires out there? 2.4"?


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Thanks
> Any more experiences?


So I finally took the studs off, and put a Chronicle on the front.

Only two rides so far, and they were commutes, but it rolls very nicely on pavement.

I was a little worried because the Ardent has been my go-to commute/dirt tire for 5 years, and with a singlespeed I didn't want to screw that up (I've got a DW on another bike, and it rolls like a pig). But so far the Chronicle seem pretty zippy.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2016)

sgtrobo said:


> what are the largest non-plus tires out there? 2.4"?


Largest in what way? Largest in rating or largest in casing?

"plus" is just a marketing term. Plus tires are rated larger than they would be as conventional tires, a 2.8+ otherwise being 2.6 and a 3.0+ being 2.8, so the largest below plus is going be 2.5". The only 2.5" rated 29er tires do not have the largest casings, though.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

craigsj said:


> Largest in what way? Largest in rating or largest in casing?
> 
> "plus" is just a marketing term. Plus tires are rated larger than they would be as conventional tires, a 2.8+ otherwise being 2.6 and a 3.0+ being 2.8, so the largest below plus is going be 2.5". The only 2.5" rated 29er tires do not have the largest casings, though.


*eyes glaze over*

uh....largest...as in...largest? *clueless aura*

I don't know what the rest of it means. sorry, I'm kinda ignorant on this subject.

I just want to fit the biggest possible tires on my Cutthroat. I know the front can fit up to 3" but the back is up in the air, and I'd rather not stick a 3" tire up front and a 2.4" tire in the back if I can avoid it. i.e. I'd like to have them somewhat closer than 3/2.4 if possible, perhaps if there's a 2.8" and a 2.5" that would be a nifty combo I think without throwing geometry off too much?

what tire is 2.5"x 29?


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## skidje (Oct 23, 2010)

nitrousjunky said:


> Finally, actual pics of the Dirt Wizard 29x3.0"! Second from the right
> View attachment 922637


What's the tire fully on the right? Surely not JJ around nov 2014?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

That looks like a fat Knard.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

sgtrobo said:


> *eyes glaze over*
> 
> uh....largest...as in...largest? *clueless aura*
> 
> ...


Kinda funny to be reading this. I was test riding a customer's Cutthroat that I'd just worked on, and the shop owner and I were joking about making it a plus bike!
I think a Panaracer Fat B Nimble _might_ fit, but we don't have one in the shop to test. 
None of the 29+ tires we stock look like they'd fit.
As far as really big 29" tires, the High Rollers and Minions are pretty big, but they're also more burly than I'd think you'd want on the Cutt.

Los


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

sslos said:


> Kinda funny to be reading this. I was test riding a customer's Cutthroat that I'd just worked on, and the shop owner and I were joking about making it a plus bike!
> I think a Panaracer Fat B Nimble _might_ fit, but we don't have one in the shop to test.
> None of the 29+ tires we stock look like they'd fit.
> As far as really big 29" tires, the High Rollers and Minions are pretty big, but they're also more burly than I'd think you'd want on the Cutt.
> ...


yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Roval Traverse SL 30mm internal width wheelset, and 2.3" Specialized Renegades. Should be a good combination of dirt, rock, gravel, and road ridability, grip and rolling speed


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

Whats the best alternative for the FBN 3.0 at 900g or less and a little bit more width (just a little) with similar roll characteristics.


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## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

sgtrobo said:


> yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Roval Traverse SL 30mm internal width wheelset, and 2.3" Specialized Renegades. Should be a good combination of dirt, rock, gravel, and road ridability, grip and rolling speed


Don't plan on riding aggressively with those on the front. Damn near deadly in my experience but they do roll like a mofo.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

boblike said:


> Whats the best alternative for the FBN 3.0 at 900g or less and a little bit more width (just a little) with similar roll characteristics.


Getting something comparable to the FBNs weight will be tough, especially wider.
I've run 4 different tires on my Stache 9 so far and the FBN is what I'll be sticking with for this season.
Chup's weren't aggressive and were slipping everywhere, Vee Fatty's self steered big time and the tread pattern is narrow, Maxxis Chronicles were on the heavy side but still might get mounted up on the rear for the extra traction over the FBN. Still too early for that decision though.
I also like the lower sidewall height of the FBN. It makes for a firmer ride without all the bounce of the Chups at the same pressures and it also seems to add a tooth or two to the big cassette ring on climbs due to the decreased circumference. It does drop the BB height a little though.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

boblike said:


> Whats the best alternative for the FBN 3.0 at 900g or less and a little bit more width (just a little) with similar roll characteristics.


Not sure such exists. I've settled on the FBN rear and the Chronicle front. On my rigid SS I like more volume front- rides more balanced. I'd take a few more grams on the FBN for tougher sidewalls, especially for rear use. Maybe Conti will enter the game soon... I can dream.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Barman1 said:


> Getting something comparable to the FBNs weight will be tough, especially wider.
> I've run 4 different tires on my Stache 9 so far and the FBN is what I'll be sticking with for this season.
> Chup's weren't aggressive and were slipping everywhere, Vee Fatty's self steered big time and the tread pattern is narrow, Maxxis Chronicles were on the heavy side but still might get mounted up on the rear for the extra traction over the FBN. Still too early for that decision though.
> I also like the lower sidewall height of the FBN. It makes for a firmer ride without all the bounce of the Chups at the same pressures and it also seems to add a tooth or two to the big cassette ring on climbs due to the decreased circumference. It does drop the BB height a little though.


Wider Chupas could be run at a lower psi than a FBN, especially at the front. That could affect traction. What psi front have you tried with both of them? Mulefut is a 45mm id rim and should allow a lower pressure than a 30 or 35mm id rim.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> Wider Chupas could be run at a lower psi than a FBN, especially at the front. That could affect traction. What psi front have you tried with both of them? Mulefut is a 45mm id rim and should allow a lower pressure than a 30 or 35mm id rim.


The Chups were my first plus sized tire so I did start them around 17 psi and they were too stiff so I dropped to around 15.5 and it wasn't bad.
The traction issue was on slick rock and the over abundance of slick roots. Just not aggressive enough tread. But it's a regional thing.
The Chups performed very well on reasonably dry pack even with a loose top layer.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Barman1 said:


> The Chups were my first plus sized tire so I did start them around 17 psi and they were too stiff so I dropped to around 15.5 and it wasn't bad.
> The traction issue was on slick rock and the over abundance of slick roots. Just not aggressive enough tread. But it's a regional thing.
> The Chups performed very well on reasonably dry pack even with a loose top layer.


I think you could take those down farther with a good gauge like an Airmax Pro, maybe 10-12 range. 
Still, slick roots are a difficult test.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

sgtrobo said:


> yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Roval Traverse SL 30mm internal width wheelset, and 2.3" Specialized Renegades. Should be a good combination of dirt, rock, gravel, and road ridability, grip and rolling speed





mopes said:


> Don't plan on riding aggressively with those on the front. Damn near deadly in my experience but they do roll like a mofo.


the Renegades? It's for a Salsa Cutthroat, not a suspension trail MTB. I'm picking them out specifically for their rolling characteristics. No, I won't try to rail any corners, although that's good info you provided, just in case I am feeling a bit "saucey", I'll think twice. Thanks.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I am super stoked on the 60 tpi 29x3 dirt wizard front and rear. I do have to run higher pressures. Found out the hard way cracking a 11mo old carbon rim on my first big ride (rim was ridable for quite a while after cracking). Traction off road is incredible compared to Knards. It's taking me awhile to remember how to turn again. on-road riding is just fine too. Surprisingly smooth given the tread.
The dirt wizard does seem to pick things up in the tread. In only 100 miles ive had several acorns sticks and rocks get stuck between knobs so the object knocks the chainstay or fork every revolution for a few revolutions. And then there was this stick....














Totally worth the improved cornering and traction on wet roots


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

When they say it sticks like wood glue...they mean it!!


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

60 tpi Dirt Wizards front and rear, all the sealant and related hardware adds up to some serious lbs. Like 7 plus??!
They should stick like glue with that weight penalty. Almost like a bulldozer track...:skep:


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Barman1 said:


> 60 tpi Dirt Wizards front and rear, all the sealant and related hardware adds up to some serious lbs. Like 7 plus??!
> They should stick like glue with that weight penalty. Almost like a bulldozer track...:skep:


Nah, run them tubeless 4oz OS f/r on my ROS9 plus, surprisingly light and grip for days. Just about to go SS on this and will run the same tire setup.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

socal_jack said:


> Nah, run them tubeless 4oz OS f/r on my ROS9 plus, surprisingly light and grip for days. Just about to go SS on this and will run the same tire setup.
> 
> View attachment 1062218


Maybe I read the Surly site wrong but aren't the 60tpi 1390g each? That's over 3lb each.
I don't know why I'm being a weenie on a plus sized tire. Especially one that will perform exactly as I want out of a tire. I need help...


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

Barman1 said:


> Maybe I read the Surly site wrong but aren't the 60tpi 1390g each? That's over 3lb each.
> I don't know why I'm being a weenie on a plus sized tire. Especially one that will perform exactly as I want out of a tire. I need help...


because a 3-lb tire is damn heavy.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Barman1 said:


> Maybe I read the Surly site wrong but aren't the 60tpi 1390g each? That's over 3lb each.
> I don't know why I'm being a weenie on a plus sized tire. Especially one that will perform exactly as I want out of a tire. I need help...


I have a regular ROS9 SS that I pedaled for a long time with 2.5" WTB Dissents (~1500gm IIRC) and tubed on Halo Freedom disc rims 2mm straight gauge spokes, now those were heavy but like these grip for days. Upside, they make you stronger.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

sgtrobo said:


> because a 3-lb tire is damn heavy.


People b!tch cuz they wanted a more durable tire, now they b!tch cuz it's too heavy. Cheese n' Rice people...go ride road bikes if you care that much about weight.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> People b!tch cuz they wanted a more durable tire, now they b!tch cuz it's too heavy. Cheese n' Rice people...go ride road bikes if you care that much about weight.


people gonna ***** about everything. Different types of riding have different requirements is all. Downhill riders? Heavy tires are no problem. XC riders who spend half their lives climbing? Weight matters.

Ultimately, if you get a flat, light weight tires won't make you any faster.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

A new one for me yesterday - my Chronicle started quacking. At the same spot on every revolution it would let out a weird quack. When I got home I aired it up a bit (to the point where my floorpump was actually reading a pressure), and it went away. It's strange because I've probably got 20 rides on it now, and it just spontaneously started yesterday.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

and there's a little added joy to the ride of a mid-fat....the tires quack. How nifty.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

sgtrobo said:


> people gonna ***** about everything. Different types of riding have different requirements is all. Downhill riders? Heavy tires are no problem. XC riders who spend half their lives climbing? Weight matters.
> 
> Ultimately, if you get a flat, light weight tires won't make you any faster.


I spend half my rides climbing, but I'm a clyde so my weight way overshadows the tires, or bike for that matter. For a 145# XC rider I can see there being more of an issue, but you're never gonna get really light plus tires with present tech so HTFU.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

I think the chupacabra is a good mix of traction and weight. Haven't had an issue in the Austin area which is known for shredding tires so they must be pretty durable.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

socal_jack said:


> I spend half my rides climbing, but I'm a clyde so my weight way overshadows the tires, or bike for that matter. For a 145# XC rider I can see there being more of an issue, but you're never gonna get really light plus tires with present tech so HTFU.


"light" plus tires? Don't think anybody really worries about that. Just don't want rolling granite donuts is all.

That said, chupa on the rear and DW up front is what i'll be getting when I finally get my $#*&ing plus bike


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

sgtrobo said:


> That said, chupa on the rear and DW up front is what i'll be getting when I finally get my $#*&ing plus bike


I've actually considered the opposite. Chupa front and DW rear. Is that flawed logic? Thinking the traction in the rear could be better than the chupa I'm running currently. No issues though with cornering traction up front for me.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

Coleman22 said:


> I've actually considered the opposite. Chupa front and DW rear. Is that flawed logic? Thinking the traction in the rear could be better than the chupa I'm running currently. No issues though with cornering traction up front for me.


what i was looking for:

1. Lighter, faster rolling tire in the rear to minimize rolling resistance
2. Better "gription" tire up front, to help with traction

In sloppy conditions, I could definitely see an advantage to having the DW in the rear though. Of course, I'm speaking speculatively here


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm finding a bit of rear slippage up steep loose terrain but spinning another pound in rear rotational weight might not be so great either. 

Need new legs actually.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

Coleman22 said:


> I'm finding a bit of rear slippage up steep loose terrain but spinning another pound in rear rotational weight might not be so great either.
> 
> Need new legs actually.


yeah, I feel your pain, except my legs aren't the problem

*pats oversized belly*


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Coleman22 said:


> I've actually considered the opposite. Chupa front and DW rear. Is that flawed logic? Thinking the traction in the rear could be better than the chupa I'm running currently. No issues though with cornering traction up front for me.


I always run a more aggressive tire in the rear than in the front for 3 season riding (winter I run bud lou, or Bud Knard 4.8). My thought is I always want as much front tire as possible, and a less aggressive rear means a more neutral feel/drift in corners, and less rolling resistance. My "my" type of trials, I usually run out of lungs/legs before I run out of traction.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

socal_jack said:


> I spend half my rides climbing, but I'm a clyde so my weight way overshadows the tires, or bike for that matter. For a 145# XC rider I can see there being more of an issue, but you're never gonna get really light plus tires with present tech so HTFU.


Rotational weight of the wheels is different than the static weight of you or the bike. Lighter wheels make climbs easier. Less rotational weight that you have to push when the wheels are lighter.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

prj71 said:


> Rotational weight of the wheels is different than the static weight of you or the bike. Lighter wheels make climbs easier. Less rotational weight that you have to push when the wheels are lighter.


Seriously, at the speeds and acceleration we're talking, not a deal breaker. Notice it on spinup. but after that, meh.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

socal_jack said:


> Seriously, at the speeds and acceleration we're talking, not a deal breaker. Notice it on spinup. but after that, meh.


dunno man, i have a Fargo. When I switched from the base wheelset to the wheelset I have now (arch's/DTS350) it was like a whole new bike. The only time I DON'T notice the wheelset upgrade is when i'm going downhill. Climbs? Whole new animal. On flats? Noticeably easier to maintain speed in a higher gear.

I'm a 240-lber, and I subscribed to the idea that 'weight doesn't matter because I'm fat', but i've been forced to change my opinion on that when it comes to rotational weight.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

*SUPER MOTO-X : 27.5 x 2.8 !!!*



bikeny said:


> Go here:
> 
> tire super moto x 27,5x2,80 SCHWALBE Tyres, MTB 27.5+ Bike
> 
> Those look like really fun tires. I have no use for them, but want them anyway!


Today I got the SUPER MOTO-X 2.8" width tires delivered! The sidewall lettering is more of a gray than white, not reflective I don't think, but they're awesome and I can't wait to throw them on the 650b wheelset! Thanks again for the lead, I'd searched everywhere for these! You rule!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

2wTrekr said:


> Today I got the SUPER MOTO-X 2.8" width tires delivered! The sidewall lettering is more of a gray than white, not reflective I don't think, but they're awesome and I can't wait to throw them on the 650b wheelset! Thanks again for the lead, I'd searched everywhere for these! You rule!


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Post some pictures and let us know how they ride when you get them mounted up.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Hey, you guys take this 27.5 talk out of the 29+ thread or else.....


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Lighter wheels will actually make it *harder* to maintain speed. They have less inertia, which is why they both speed up and slow down faster.

IIRC, some of the hour record holder riders used especially heavy wheels to help them keep the wheels spinning after they got up to speed.



sgtrobo said:


> dunno man, i have a Fargo. When I switched from the base wheelset to the wheelset I have now (arch's/DTS350) it was like a whole new bike. The only time I DON'T notice the wheelset upgrade is when i'm going downhill. Climbs? Whole new animal. On flats? Noticeably easier to maintain speed in a higher gear.
> 
> I'm a 240-lber, and I subscribed to the idea that 'weight doesn't matter because I'm fat', but i've been forced to change my opinion on that when it comes to rotational weight.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

sgtrobo said:


> dunno man, i have a Fargo. When I switched from the base wheelset to the wheelset I have now (arch's/DTS350) it was like a whole new bike. The only time I DON'T notice the wheelset upgrade is when i'm going downhill. Climbs? Whole new animal. On flats? Noticeably easier to maintain speed in a higher gear.
> 
> I'm a 240-lber, and I subscribed to the idea that 'weight doesn't matter because I'm fat', but i've been forced to change my opinion on that when it comes to rotational weight.


Changed the WTB Dissents out for some 2.4 Gomas to preserve the WTBs a few months back, that dropped ~1# per tire, biggest thing I noticed was how much smoother the ride was due to softer casing, that and not as much traction on side-slope stuff or extreme DH. A little difference on spin-up but everything else on the wheels remained constant, so not a huge difference.

Started changeover to SS on ROS9 plus last weekend, weighed rear wheel when I took it off; Stans 3.3 hub and Hugo rim, GX 11-spd cluster & DW's(unsure of spoke/nipple combo) came to 6.1#. The Stans hubs are pretty cheesy and light though, so with a good hub, rear wheel might rise to 7#.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

A 29x3 Knard on a 50mm will fit anywhere that a Bud will fit.

http://www.m2group.com/bikestuff/WheelSpecs.pdf


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Anybody else take a look at the Maxxis Minion 29x3 tire at Sea Otter? It was mounted on a Hugo wheel at the Maxxis tent. Didn't talk to the Maxxis guys about it and now I'm kicking myself as there's no info anywhere online. Looks like a very beefy front tire.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

That tire looks so beastly. I must have them.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

That monstrous Minion on the front and a Chronicle on the rear seems like a killer combo for my Krampus.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

2 minions for me please. Infinite grip

i like my Chupas but the rear slips too much on steep loose stuff for me


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Anybody else take a look at the Maxxis Minion 29x3 tire at Sea Otter? It was mounted on a Hugo wheel at the Maxxis tent. Didn't talk to the Maxxis guys about it and now I'm kicking myself as there's no info anywhere online. Looks like a very beefy front tire.


wish granted

Maxxis releases new plus-size tires - Mtbr.com


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I am really surprised they went sooo beefy with their next 29+ tire. I thought for sure we would see a Ardent equivalent, but I cannot complain. As others have said, I see are DHF and Chronicle in my near future. 

First serious ride off fat bike and on 29+ this season, and I forgot what it feels like to have the tires squirming around looking for traction in corners/braking. Makes me really lust for a sexy 29+ FS rig.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

*OneSpeed* said:


> wish granted
> 
> Maxxis releases new plus-size tires - Mtbr.com


Sum*****. Thanks.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> I thought for sure we would see a Ardent equivalent


Isn't the Chronicle already their Ardent equivalent? It's pretty much the same tread pattern, just with more transition knobs, and with shorter knobs overall.

I have yet to try my Chronicle in anything remotely wet, although I suspect it'll be pretty bad because of the short knobs. But I always thought the Ardent was surprisingly bad on wet stuff too.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> I see are DHF and Chronicle in my near future.


that's basically what i'm running. Dirt Wizard front, Bomboloni rear.

I just got my bike but i knew this was the setup i wanted. only one ride so far that was extremely muddy, but i know it will work well.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

*OneSpeed* said:


> that's basically what i'm running. Dirt Wizard front, Bomboloni rear.


This is what I've been running for a while now....totally kick ass!!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Has anyone turned their Bomboloni around backwards in the rear? 

did a good long ride today on local trails. absolutely had a blast! my Bomboloni in the rear was a little less grippy on standing climbs than i would have liked. granted every one of them was loose over hard with varying amounts of loose dirt/dust/gravel some of which included leaves including oak leaves which are really slippery. tire pressure was nice and low.

conversely the tire excelled when going down very steep declines (on loose over hard) where i'm behind the saddle, when normally i basically lock the rear wheel and barely have any modulation with the front before it locks up too and i crash. not today though! i never locked either wheel and had grip through the entire descent which has never happened before. it made me laugh how well the tires stuck. 

I LOVE the Bomboloni tire casing! it's so plush feeling without ever feeling sketchy in turns. it mounted up tubeless like a champ and was still rock hard in the morning. (insert joke here) 

DW hasn't failed me yet. I'm running the 120 tpi and am a little nervous about the sidewalls feeling very thin in my hand. not sure how they will hold up in rock gardens or sharp sticks and such. i was initially wanting a 60 tpi but LBS only had 120 in stock and i guess I'm just that impatient. it feels good in the turns, didn't fold over despite low pressure, and it never slipped or wanted to wash out. to be fair i didn't push it as hard as i could, but initial impression is very good. 

so anyway, that's my review of those two tires. back to the original question. has anyone run the Bomboloni flipped? I'm probably going to turn it around in a week or so regardless. if no one has done it, i'll be the guinea pig.

Edit: DW weighed 960g, Bomboloni weighed 1055g


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

I was using DW's in the original 120tpi version until the 60tpi became available. I had totaled a carbon rim with a 120tpi DW @ 17psi due to rider error and weak sidewalls.
The difference is truly amazing in sidewall strength.
The 120tpi would fold under hard cornering at anything lower than 16 psi, the 60tpi will not fold until 14-14.5 psi.
I have yet to get the "new" 60tpi DW's with more sidewall(100 grams more)
I have thought about turning the rear DW around, but the traction/grip is sufficient, as designed for my needs.
The 3" minion dhf does look like my next tire though.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

newfangled said:


> Isn't the Chronicle already their Ardent equivalent? It's pretty much the same tread pattern, just with more transition knobs, and with shorter knobs overall.


I don't think the Chroni looks anything like the Ardent. Def a Ikon copy, which is good. Ikon is a great rear tire imho.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Chronicle, not even close to an Ardent, it has much more knobs, much closer together in loads of different directions, hence, IMHO, that's why it so absolutely annoying with self steer, closet PLUS tyre would be the Rekon, but it's more like the Race version with more intermediate knobs. Chronicle is not an Ikon copy.

As to the Ardents performance - I'm glad that they've realised just how horrible the Ardent is for most, hence the re-design with additional transition knobs in the Race version, hope they will phase out the old one and transfer the Race pattern to the 2.4" casing with taller and bigger knobs. Absolutely agree on the Ardent on/in anything wet, sucks balls, big time.



newfangled said:


> Isn't the Chronicle already their Ardent equivalent? It's pretty much the same tread pattern, just with more transition knobs, and with shorter knobs overall.
> 
> I have yet to try my Chronicle in anything remotely wet, although I suspect it'll be pretty bad because of the short knobs. But I always thought the Ardent was surprisingly bad on wet stuff too.


L to R - Ardent 29er, Rekon 650B+ 2.8", Chronicle, Ikon PLUS


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## 3names (Feb 7, 2015)

Bontrager put out X4 SE4 tire in 29 x 2.55 so not realy a fat tire but if it is a true 2.55 tire this thing could be awesome for more agressive 29+ bikes. And they will fit in standard forks.



> We've been long time fans of the XR4 because of it's versatility, and Bontrager just made it even better, by giving it a faster rolling, yet grippier tread pattern. They've also added a tougher casing. Bontrager is also releasing a new SE4 team issue with the updated tread, which will use woven nylon SE Core technology to get improved durability and strength out of a single ply tire. Both options will be available in 27.5×2.4", 29×2.4", and *29×2.55"*.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

Can someone recommend a replacement front tire for a chupacabra that slides a little too much for my liking in the front. I want more cornering confidence in loose over hard.


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## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

Dropout33 said:


> Can someone recommend a replacement front tire for a chupacabra that slides a little too much for my liking in the front. I want more cornering confidence in loose over hard.


I was running the chup and just switched to a magic Mary 2.35. Pretty decent size. About the same as a minion 2.5 from what I understand but lighter by a hundred grams or so. Loving it and will throw the chup back on for next winter.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Dropout33 said:


> Can someone recommend a replacement front tire for a chupacabra that slides a little too much for my liking in the front. I want more cornering confidence in loose over hard.


What id rim and pressure have you used?


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Dropout33 said:


> Can someone recommend a replacement front tire for a chupacabra that slides a little too much for my liking in the front. I want more cornering confidence in loose over hard.


I would say the Dirt Wizard or maybe the new Minion DHF 3" will be the best bet.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

DHF 29+ is vaporware for a while yet, they'll be available sometime late summer or after this year, but yes, definitely a tyre I'm looking forward to getting for the front of my rigid KM.



jonshonda said:


> I would say the Dirt Wizard or maybe the new Minion DHF 3" will be the best bet.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

Dropout33 said:


> ...I want more cornering confidence in loose over hard.


Use a wider rim.

BTW, does anyone know of a 29 x 65mm wide 32h rim?


----------



## xbrian (Sep 24, 2007)

I can't find any 29x2.8" options out there - seems this would be perfect size for my typical riding in Boise foothills... Anyone know of anything existing or upcoming??


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

xbrian said:


> I can't find any 29x2.8" options out there...


Vee Speedster...more of a hard pack/road tire. Might not be aggressive enough for your application.

Speedster | VEE Tire Co.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'm hoping that Maxxis will release something along these lines sometime later this year or next.



xbrian said:


> I can't find any 29x2.8" options out there - seems this would be perfect size for my typical riding in Boise foothills... Anyone know of anything existing or upcoming??


----------



## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

Worth looking at the new bontragger 2.55 also, wonder how it measures out


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## Bacchus32 (Jul 24, 2011)

Panaracer Fat B Nimble 3.0 is actually a 2.7.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Bacchus32 said:


> Panaracer Fat B Nimble 3.0 is actually a 2.7.


Or 2.8" on a 50mm mulefut.
I like the tire. Thought it might not be aggressive enough being one of the lightest in the 29+ category but it's much grippier than the Chupa. Lower sidewall keeps the squirm to a minimum as well.
I'll stick with the FBNs until something chunkier yet lighter comes along. I think I'll be waiting a long time.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, but paper thin, not good for coral rocks, so I'll pass and keep on waiting. In a normal 29er I won't ride anything under 750g, normally most are 800-900g to have a suitable enough casing to not get cut on our coral - Maxxis EXO, Bonti TEAM TLR.


Bacchus32 said:


> Panaracer Fat B Nimble 3.0 is actually a 2.7.
> 
> 
> Barman1 said:
> ...


----------



## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

eb1888 said:


> What id rim and pressure have you used?


I am riding a Stache 5 with Mulefut 50 wheels which I think is 45mm. Ive tried pressures from 8psi to 13psi


----------



## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

xbrian said:


> I can't find any 29x2.8" options out there - seems this would be perfect size for my typical riding in Boise foothills... Anyone know of anything existing or upcoming??


Vittoria Bomboloni is about 2.8, noticeably smaller than a Chupacabra. About 100 gr heaver but a lot tougher casing. On sale at Cambria for $70.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

jonshonda said:


> I would say the Dirt Wizard or maybe the new Minion DHF 3" will be the best bet.


Dirt Wizard in 60 tpi is my choice. 29"x3"Minion's will not be available to the general pop till late summer/early fall from what I can gather.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Does anyone know the measurements of VEE Tire Bulldozer 29x3,25? 
I cannot find any reviews nor measurements of it. The thread pattern seems to be good for front and its available here in EU for 67€ only.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

TuTone T said:


> Vittoria Bomboloni is about 2.8, noticeably smaller than a Chupacabra. About 100 gr heaver but a lot tougher casing. On sale at Cambria for $70.


I measured mine to be 73mm wide new, on a 50mm rim
Calling it a 2.8" tire would be misleading for people with tight forks


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

bruto said:


> I measured mine to be 73mm wide new, on a 50mm rim
> Calling it a 2.8" tire would be misleading for people with tight forks


Mine actually measure on the plus side of 2.9". Definitely misleading.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Trailice said:


> Dirt Wizard in 60 tpi is my choice. 29"x3"Minion's will not be available to the general pop till late summer/early fall from what I can gather.


Tried to email Maxxis for a release date on the 29x3.0 Minion, but as you can imagine...no response. Building a 2nd wheelset for my Mutz, and I'm looking for some concrete info on these tires. Or should I just plan on mounting up the Dirt Wizards if I wanna use these wheels in 2016?!


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I got a response from Maxxis saying the 29x3 minion will be available in the fall. I ordered a chronicle yesterday that will be pulling front wheel duty while I burn up the better of my two Knards on the rear. When these minions come out, I think it'll be a killer front tire and the chronicle will move to the back of my Krampus.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks for the info. Think I'll mount up a Dirt Wizard in the front and the Nobby Nic out back, and try to wear em out so I'm ready for the Minions next season.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

ya29er said:


> Does anyone know the measurements of VEE Tire Bulldozer 29x3,25?
> I cannot find any reviews nor measurements of it. The thread pattern seems to be good for front and its available here in EU for 67€ only.


Where did you find the Bulldozer? (Euro) Looking for the 27.5 x 2.8 actually, but can only seem to find it on the Vee Tire website. Thanx


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Where did you find the Bulldozer? (Euro) Looking for the 27.5 x 2.8 actually, but can only seem to find it on the Vee Tire website. Thanx


Not sure about 27.5 but 29x3.25 is here:
https://best-bike-parts.de/VEE-Tire-Bulldozer-29x325-Reifen-29-faltbar-120-TPI_1#&gid=1&pid=1

I've contacted the shop a week ago and asked about the measurements. They promised me to send measurements 'later this week'. So far today is Thursday and no reply yet.

The tire looks pretty good for a replacement of Dirt Wizard 120tpi. All Surly tires are too weak for my riding conditions. A lot of sidewall cuts for Knard and DW (all repaired with a floss tape) but zero issues for Chronicle. The last cut of a nob of DW I was not able to repair.
So I ordered another Chronicle. The old model is on sale now for 67€ in bike-components.de.

Also I accidentally discovered that my old Chronicle was not TR but I was running it tubeless. Zero problems with tubeless either.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

CRWLN said:


> Thanks for the info. Think I'll mount up a Dirt Wizard in the front and the Nobby Nic out back, and try to wear em out so I'm ready for the Minions next season.


Wait, you have a Nobby Nic 29+ tire? Do tell!


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

bikeny said:


> Wait, you have a Nobby Nic 29+ tire? Do tell!


Seriously doubt it although I would be all over that tire.  They planned to make that tire originally, but then the 27.5+ took off so much I think they dropped it...at least for now.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

bikeny said:


> Wait, you have a Nobby Nic 29+ tire? Do tell!


My bad...I'm actually gonna run a 27.5 x 3.0 Nobby Nic out back. Yeah, for the summer season I'm setting up my Mutz as a Mutz Mixer. In a perfect world, I would just add a Mixer to my stable.


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## philreske8614 (Apr 25, 2016)

Can we get a list together of Rolling resistances for these options? 

Chupsbaccerea
Chronicle 
Dirt wizard
Knard 
Bombolooni

I want to use these for xc applications and want the lowest RR. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

philreske8614 said:


> Can we get a list together of Rolling resistances for these options?
> 
> Chupsbaccerea
> Chronicle
> ...


I have not ridden all of them, but this would be my guess:

Knard
Chupacabra (what's a Chupsbaccerea??)
Bomboloni
Chronicle
Dirt Wizard


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

philreske8614 said:


> Can we get a list together of Rolling resistances for these options?
> 
> Chupsbaccerea
> Chronicle
> ...


Depends on your terrain but the Panaracer Fat B Nimble is a light, fast tire and rolls easy.
But with light weight comes durability issues with sidewall tears. I have a couple of tears on the rear but still holding air just fine.


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## philreske8614 (Apr 25, 2016)

Barman1 said:


> Depends on your terrain but the Panaracer Fat B Nimble is a light, fast tire and rolls easy.
> But with light weight comes durability issues with sidewall tears. I have a couple of tears on the rear but still holding air just fine.


Thanks for the response... Ill look into that one. I make and use the homemade tubeless brew that's featured here in the 29er forums. 
It has slime in it and adds far more durability than stans to a light weight tire.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Maxxis Chronicle is the best tire I ever had. Both non-plus and plus. I ride a lot of places with sharp rocks and only Chronicle in one year have had zero issues.

And ****ing Surlies Knard and Dirt Wizard are paper thin. 
I don't know why but after having so much problems with Surlys I decided to give it another try and bought a Dirt Wizard 120dpi.

Today just in the first few minutes of descending on a local XC technical trail I've got 1 sidecut and 1 nob cut. After the sidecut I had to install a tube. After the nob cut pressure dropped immoderately that even the fork axle broke. Had to push the bike long way down.

So people if you ever come near sharp rocks never ever buy Suriles.


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## Wig (Aug 24, 2014)

That's crazy - I just had a 3rd puncture on my DW 120's.. I patched the first to but after the third I tossed them - like you said, they are just too thin for any rocky conditions. In the same conditions I've gone over a year wopithout a flat on 45nrt Dillinger's so it's gotta be the tire. Just switched to the Maxxis


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

*Vee Tire Discount*

Vee is running a 25% discount on all inventory over the Memorial Day weekend. Just ordered a pair of 29 x 2.8 Speedsters.

http://shop.veetireco.com/default.asp


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

ya29er said:


> View attachment 1072895
> View attachment 1072896
> 
> Maxxis Chronicle is the best tire I ever had. Both non-plus and plus. I ride a lot of places with sharp rocks and only Chronicle in one year have had zero issues.
> ...


The 60 TPI version of Dirt Wizards are awesome in the rocks, have run for about 6 months no issues and lots of rocks here in socal.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

I have been racking up the miles on my Stache 5 and while the chupacabras have been wearing well I thought I would give the Vee 3.0 tires a try for my training miles. I think they should roll slightly better but I will find out if they have the same grip as the chupacabras.
The one I bought new was 939 grams so they are heavier.
The bulldozer 3.25 looks interesting.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

FatBike&SlenderWoman said:


> Vee is running a 25% discount on all inventory over the Memorial Day weekend. Just ordered a pair of 29 x 2.8 Speedsters.
> 
> http://shop.veetireco.com/default.asp


just bought a bulldozer for 64 bucks with your help thanks! can't wait to set it up as a front tire but i'll probably wait until fall when conditions start to deteriorate my chupacabras just hook up too well on the summer hardpack to mess with...

i don't want to jinx it; but the chupacabras have been amazingly durable for how thin and light they seem. I have bashed them through several hard days of pointy east coast rocks with no complaints. sunday i bashed the back HARD with the accompanying terrible noise you get before a flat; i was sure the next thing that would happen was getting sprayed with stans but nothing...

that vee rubber tire better be good because the bontrager plus sized jawns have preformed superbly so far. the plus size tire bar is set REALLY high. if only they didn't cost 120 bucks...


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

anyone know a distributor for these stateside:
CHAOYANG Bicycle Tires-Big Daddy

looks like a nice tread pattern and is avaiable in 120tpi... Seems to be an OG tire from some company that makes bike tires for other companies???


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## philreske8614 (Apr 25, 2016)

max-a-mill said:


> anyone know a distributor for these stateside:
> CHAOYANG Bicycle Tires-Big Daddy
> 
> looks like a nice tread pattern and is avaiable in 120tpi... Seems to be an OG tire from some company that makes bike tires for other companies???


About 99% sure those are the fat-b-nimbles

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

philreske8614 said:


> About 99% sure those are the fat-b-nimbles
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so probably not sold in the US to avoid stepping on panaracers toes?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

max-a-mill said:


> anyone know a distributor for these stateside:
> CHAOYANG Bicycle Tires-Big Daddy
> 
> looks like a nice tread pattern and is avaiable in 120tpi... Seems to be an OG tire from some company that makes bike tires for other companies???


That's a Panaracer Fat B Nimble. I've seen them for sale on Ebay and a shop in Italy called Ridewill, but usually the cheap wire bead version. I would stay away as they are known for very thin sidewalls.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

thanks for that tip! always looking for cheap tires but you're totally right sometimes they are cheap for a reason.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Innova Gravity Vidar is available quite cheaply on ebay and amazon (check under Minnesota and/or Framed brands too: Framed 29 Fat Bike Tire Sz 29 x 3in | eBay )
Vee Trax Fatty is also inexpensive
And then there're Chronicles in European discount shops (bike-components, bike-discount, bike24, r2-bike) or from european ebay sellers (check "Worldwide" in location when searching)


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

bikeny said:


> That's a Panaracer Fat B Nimble. I've seen them for sale on Ebay and a shop in Italy called Ridewill, but usually the cheap wire bead version. I would stay away as they are known for very thin sidewalls.


Mine is working in rocky/rooty terrain and hardpack with some sand and gravel, but the rocks are mostly rounded so no casing cuts yet. This tire fits in my SID fork. Pick a tire based on space and terrain.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

bruto said:


> I measured mine to be 73mm wide new, on a 50mm rim
> Calling it a 2.8" tire would be misleading for people with tight forks


I went back and checked mine and your right I was assuming the Chupacabra was 3.0
as I have that on the back and the Bomboloni on the front. the Chupa is @ 3.1 the bomboloni close to 3.0 and the Chupa is noticeably taller also.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

bruto said:


> Innova Gravity Vidar is available quite cheaply on ebay and amazon (check under Minnesota and/or Framed brands too: Framed 29 Fat Bike Tire Sz 29 x 3in | eBay )


(i have one waiting for when my current tire finally dies) it is a great tire for the buck but not the longest lasting. great casing but just a few to few knobs for me; it gets worn down pretty fast to where the knobs start to loose grip (especially the sideknobs).

does anyone else find that with these big grippy tires and their ability to lean way over while railing turns the sideknobs on these big meats get really abused?

i would love a tire with minimal center tread (something like a chupacabra) but then with SUPER BURLY sideknobs (like a minion).

i really like my chupacabras but after 3-4 months sideknobs (especially in back) are starting to peel off. rest of the tread still looks great. center knobs still look almost new. but once the sideknobs get rounded and start peeling off the cornering is no longer as awesome...


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

max-a-mill said:


> i would love a tire with minimal center tread (something like a chupacabra) but then with SUPER BURLY sideknobs (like a minion).


enter 29+ Kenda Happy Medium 
a Rock Razor is probably more likely, or Minion SS


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

anyone else liking the look of the WTB ranger 29x3.0? - advertised as fast rolling and a reasonable weight. seems like a chupacabra at just over half the price. in for a pair before they sell out.


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## JohnJameson (Jun 3, 2009)

honkonbobo said:


> anyone else liking the look of the WTB ranger 29x3.0? - advertised as fast rolling and a reasonable weight. seems like a chupacabra at just over half the price. in for a pair before they sell out.


Yep, looks good. My chupa on the back needs to be replaced, just dropped $130 to replace the front. I like the weight and pricepoint of the Ranger very much.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

too bad they're not making a 29x2.8... it would have been the perfect rear tire for my gryphon


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

honkonbobo said:


> anyone else liking the look of the WTB ranger 29x3.0? - advertised as fast rolling and a reasonable weight. seems like a chupacabra at just over half the price. in for a pair before they sell out.


oh yeah! tread pattern looks very nice. first wtb tire in quite a while i'd really be excited to try.


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

weights 29x3.0


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## David william (Jun 28, 2016)

Hello!

Nice to join this community. My name is David (as you can see from the user id), and I'm a cycling / biking fan (both pedal and motorcycle).

I'm looking to get more active in the forum, ask for recommendations, and feedback around a business idea that involves bike manufacturing.

Anyway, look forward to chatting with you all!


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

CST BFT+ 29x3.0







Mounted to my WTB Asym i35 rim.







Next to a Maxxis Ikon 2.4 on a 40mm nexitie rim.







Labeled 76-622
Weight 1190 gr
wire bead
Casing is 27tpi i.e. burly
tread height 2.7mm
Max pressure 30psi
Bead to Bead = 174mm ish 
Newly mounted with tube, 70.2mm casing width 20psi
Height is 29 15/16" ~ 760 mm







Needed a tire for AZ & CO , next week, something with more than tissue paper sidewalls (aka FBN). FBN is fast but I'm not taking a chance in the mountains.
So far very rounded mold very little wobble compared to my FBN, very quite on the street and leans really nice.

I have high hopes for this tire, best part *$30.00*!!! got it from my LBS (via JBI). :thumbsup:

I will follow up with a individual post once I get back from riding this tire (hopefully it will seal up tubeless)


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Wow, Heavy beast, and not tubeless ready. no dice for me.

Thanks for posting


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

worldskipper said:


> ....Needed a tire for AZ & CO , ....


Can Chronicles handle that conditions?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Enjoy your new tyre WorldSkipper :thumbsup:

Ooooops, guess my bad then, as it set up easier than the Chronicle I was also sent to test and I've been riding it tubeless on a Dually45 for well over a year now, on a rigid, with no issues what so ever :skep: Beats the crap out of the Chronicle, much less self steer, much better bite, much better feeling, pick it any day over a Chronicle, near 200g more weight be damned.



TuTone T said:


> Wow, Heavy beast, and not tubeless ready. no dice for me.
> 
> Thanks for posting


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Good to know that it set up tubeless for you LyNx, my experience with non TLR tires haven't been the best. 

Must be the awesome graphics that make me want to buy one.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, retail graphics are a "bit" on the big side, good thing all mine has is a small Prototype warning hot patch 


TuTone T said:


> Good to know that it set up tubeless for you LyNx, my experience with non TLR tires haven't been the best.
> 
> Must be the awesome graphics that make me want to buy one.


----------



## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok. I just spent about 3 days reading through this entire thread. All 42 pages. I wish this info could somehow be edited into page 1 but here's a summary for anyone new. These are not slicks...mtb 29er leaning only. If I missed anything let me know and I'll edit this post.

*Bontrager*
Chupacabra 3.0 TLR

*Maxxis*
Chronicle 3.0 Dual Compound

*Panaracer*
Fat B Nimble 3.0

*Surly*
Dirt Wizard 3.0
Knard 3.0"

*Vittoria*
Bomboloni

*Vee*
Trax Fatty 3.0
Bulldozer 3.25

*CST*
BFT 3.0

*Gravity*
Vidar 3.0

*WTB*
Ranger 3.0

*Innova
*Pro Transformer 3.0

On the Horizon (more than a rumor):

*Maxxis*
Minion 3.0

*Duro*
Crux 3.25


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

sternomac said:


> ...If I missed anything let me know and I'll edit this post.
> 
> On the Horizon (more than a rumor):
> 
> ...


the Rangers are not just on the horizon... i ordered a pair of 29x3.0 from the WTB site and received them last week. they are on the scale a half dozen posts above.


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

Don't forget the Vee Bulldozer 3.25" that you can buy from Vee. 
Category: Vee Tyres - Travers Bikes.com
Not a MTB tire - (slick mind you) but still massive Vee Speedster 29x2.8 (Expected Sept 2016)

Duro has some tires called the "Crux" 29x3.25. Jones had some at interbike. Might call Jeff and see if/where you can get them.


__
http://instagr.am/p/7skBQ3QUpZ/


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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

Edits made. Thanks lads. 

I'm keeping the speedster off the list as it's not an MTB tire but you're right. It's rad looking. Plus it's only a few posts away from this list so it should be easy to find.


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## tri-tele (Jun 18, 2009)

There is also the Innova Transformers Pro. Proper 3" mounted up tubeless on Hugos.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

tri-tele said:


> There is also the Innova Transformers Pro. Proper 3" mounted up tubeless on Hugos.


Do tell how you managed to get them mounted please. I had no luck


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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

tri-tele said:


> There is also the Innova Transformers Pro. Proper 3" mounted up tubeless on Hugos.


Fixed. Thanks!


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

TuTone T said:


> Do tell how you managed to get them mounted please. I had no luck


LOL, I feel your pain!
Check out post #187 on the NoTubes Hugo thread...baby shampoo and strong levers.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/notubes-hugo-52mm-rim-921705-8.html


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks for the post, guess I'm just spoiled with just trowing a tire on my rim and airing it up with a floor pump with no sealant. The Transformers fit to loose on my v1 stans rims to air up that way even with a compressor. Maybe one day I'll try a split tube. I'll stick with Chupas and Bombolonis' for now.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

This looks way easier and lighter than ghetto tubeless or Gorilla tape for loose fitting tires.
The Nashua tape has a butyl adhesive which should be much more durable with sealants than Gorilla tape.
I am going to try it tonight with Bud, Lou and a pair of clown shoes. Success or Fail, I will post results with photos.

Looks who?s laughing now, clown! ? Bikepacking Arkansas


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Any plus tires in th 2.6-2.8 range?

The tire would be run on a Stan's Flow non-ex version, tubeless.


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

The Panaracer Fat B Nimble is effectively in that range (about 2.6" when I had it on a Blunt 35), even though it's jokingly labeled as a 3" tire.



Miker J said:


> Any plus tires in th 2.6-2.8 range?
> 
> The tire would be run on a Stan's Flow non-ex version, tubeless.


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Miker J said:


> Any plus tires in th 2.6-2.8 range?
> 
> The tire would be run on a Stan's Flow non-ex version, tubeless.


Fat B Nimble would be around that width.
Measures 2.8 a on 50mm Mulefut.


----------



## tri-tele (Jun 18, 2009)

Tire one mounted up on the Hugo's straight away. Tire two required seating the beads with a tube and the pulling one bead out and the tube and then hitting it with the compressor again. Other than that they mounted up pretty painlessly. 

That said it was a completely backwards process in that I put the rim inside the tire and pulled the beads into the head channels.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

tri-tele said:


> ...That said it was a completely backwards process in that I put the rim inside the tire and pulled the beads into the head channels.


Ya dun good.
That is the preferred technique for mounting tubeless tires...especially on rims that have a center box like the Hugo.


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## R-M-R (Jan 26, 2009)

Miker J said:


> Any plus tires in th 2.6-2.8 range?


Patience 









and

Industry Bike Check: Sebastian Maag's Specialized Enduro EVO | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

sternomac said:


> Ok. I just spent about 3 days reading through this entire thread. All 42 pages. I wish this info could somehow be edited into page 1 but here's a summary for anyone new. These are not slicks...mtb 29er leaning only. If I missed anything let me know and I'll edit this post.
> 
> *Bontrager*
> Chupacabra 3.0 TLR
> ...


Thanks for compiling this list!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Guitar Ted just dropped news of a 29x2.8 studded tire: the Arisun Sharktooth

Not much info up right now, but here's a picture of the 26x4 version:








https://www.facebook.com/arisunbicycletires/

Just personally, I've been waiting for years to someone to make something like that.


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## RIDESLOW (Dec 21, 2007)

Is this where i post a tire for trade offer ?
Brand new VEE TRAX FATTY,29 X 3.00
mounted but didn't fit my frame.
I'd like to get one similiar,29 x 2.6 + or -
slightly used is ok.
Maaxis maybe.


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## SwillyBear (Jan 6, 2012)

*Vee Bulldozer Krampus*



reamer41 said:


> Thanks for compiling this list!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does anyone know if a Krampus has enough clearance to fit the Vee Bulldozer 29 x 3.25"? You would probably have to run the back wheel all the way back in the dropouts.

Thanks

SwillyBear


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Need a new rear tire

I currently run a Knard rear and Vidar front combo and love it - although the knard is easy to break loose under braking it is very predictable and easy to slide when necessary - I like way it rides and the volume - mine is a 120 tpi - suggestions from all these new tires? - I do not want to drop $120 on a new tire. I would not mind a little more grip when braking but do not want to lose the predictability


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

Try out the CST BFT, $30, I ran mine tubeless on a WTB ASYM rim (i35) it's a little on the portly side but it's cheap, and ought to work well on the rear.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

clydeone said:


> ...I currently run a Knard rear and Vidar front combo and love it - although the knard is easy to break loose under braking it is very predictable and easy to slide when necessary...


Depending on how heavy one applies the brakes, 60-100% of the bikes mass is shifted to front wheel. Exceeding 100% with the front wheel still maintaining traction, (something easy to do on a steep descent) will result in the rear wheel leaving the ground and we all know where that is headed. :eekster:

In an effort to increase stopping power on my Blackborow, I replaced the 160mm front disc on my 26 and 29 wheelsets with a 200mm disc. A 200 has 25% more stopping power than a 160 which is not really that much when you consider that under most conditions, the braking traction on the front wheel is more than double that of the rear wheel.

To illustrate this, I put the 4.8 x 26 Lou (one of the most aggressive tires available) on the rear @ 10 psi along with the 2.8 x 29 Speedster slick @ 30 psi on the front. Braking on every surface that I rode (gravel, pavement, hard pack) the rear wheel required much less effort to break loose when compared to the front wheel with it's larger disc and smaller tire.

Bottom line is, changing to a different rear tire is not going to have much impact on braking performance compared to the Knard that you already like.
A larger front disc will give you more stopping power for way less money than a tire. Just be careful on those descents.


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## Loafr (Sep 22, 2010)

Any 29+ tires out there that could work on a smaller rim like a 24mm? Would like to add a little plush to my spec crave RR SS. The fork and frame have quite a bit of clearance to fit something bigger than the 2.20 that are on there.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Loafr said:


> Any 29+ tires out there that could work on a smaller rim like a 24mm? Would like to add a little plush to my spec crave RR SS. The fork and frame have quite a bit of clearance to fit something bigger than the 2.20 that are on there.


Fat B nimble but you'd need to keep pressure higher than ideal. I'd jsut use a good 2.35 like Ikon, Racing Ralph, X King (nominal 2.4).


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

Check out a high volume "regular" 29er tire like the Racing Ralph or Geax Goma


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## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

What make/model tire is suitable for part dirt/part pavement use, 29+ up to 3.0. Rim is 50mm but I might consider replacing it w/40mm. 

Bike is 2016 Trek Stache 5, all XTR upgrade, carbon bits, etc.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Surprisingly, there is just such an animal: Speedster:
Speedster | VEE Tire Co.


ro7939 said:


> What make/model tire is suitable for part dirt/part pavement use, 29+ up to 3.0. Rim is 50mm but I might consider replacing it w/40mm.
> 
> Bike is 2016 Trek Stache 5, all XTR upgrade, carbon bits, etc.


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## Thrawn (Jan 15, 2009)

I concur... Works really well at max pressure... Didn't slip on any of the loose over hard pack climbs, and rolls smooth enough on the tarmac to keep up with a slow roadie...



SVO said:


> Surprisingly, there is just such an animal: Speedster:
> Speedster | VEE Tire Co.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Trailice said:


> Dirt Wizard in 60 tpi is my choice. 29"x3"Minion's will not be available to the general pop till late summer/early fall from what I can gather.


Anyone know when the 29"x3.0" Minions will be available?


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Last I heard it was sometime early 4th quarter this year, but if that still holds true no clue, expect maybe more reports at Euro Bike and then Interbike.



noosa2 said:


> Anyone know when the 29"x3.0" Minions will be available?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Does anyone have any insight on a Schwalbe offering in the 29+ space? I have a set of their 27.5+ tires and i love them. I just with they were bigger for better rollover. I live in a flat-ish state (MN) and i think the 29+ would be awesome here. i am also a bit partial to Schwalbe tires.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Jefflinde said:


> Does anyone have any insight on a Schwalbe offering in the 29+ space? I have a set of their 27.5+ tires and i love them. I just with they were bigger for better rollover. I live in a flat-ish state (MN) and i think the 29+ would be awesome here. i am also a bit partial to Schwalbe tires.


They mentioned something about 29+ tires when they first revealed their 27+ tires, but I have not heard anything since.


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

Word is NN 2.6s some time after Interbike


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Bear Spleen said:


> Word is NN 2.6s some time after Interbike


Now they need a NN 3.0 to go with it.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

nitrousjunky said:


> Now they need a NN 3.0 to go with it.


that would be cool.

i need one of two things. i either want someone to put out a tire that's more aggressive than my Bomboloni (for the rear), or bigger and more aggressive than the DW (for the front) and i'll put the DW in the rear. i like option 2.

i feel like there's a big gap between the medium tread tires available and the ONE aggressive tire available.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm finding the Chronicle to be a bit wimpy in the traction department. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

CST BFT 3.0", excellent, excellent tyre and bonus if you can find the folding bead version. I have the wire bead I tested and really was not much heavier than a Chronicle, but MUCH beefier casing and much better tread design. My only thing I would change about it is make the side knobs a bit taller and bigger, other than that super sweet tyre.


reamer41 said:


> I'm finding the Chronicle to be a bit wimpy in the traction department.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Anybody heard any news about the Duro Crux 29x3.25? Jeff Jones was showing them on his Plus bikes at last years Interbike, but nothing since.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

LyNx said:


> CST BFT 3.0", excellent, excellent tyre and bonus if you can find the folding bead version.


is it true to size?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

On a Dually45 I get 73mm/2 7/8", which is pretty good to me.



savo said:


> is it true to size?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Got a WTB ranger yesterday - mounted on a rabbit hole at 25 psig it measured 2 15/16 inches across the outermost knobs - seems like a good size and tread pattern for a rear tire will test it out tomorrow. 


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I am jonesing to try these new Arisun tires out. does anyone have and experience with them. Particularly the Studded shark tooth. I reached out to the company and the only way to get them is through J&B Importers. my LBS is looking into it but i was hoping someone already has a set and can shed some light on them. weight, size, overall feel and finish? 

Cheers


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I was just browsing the WTB website and looking at the new Ranger tire. They have 6 different 26+ versions (2 widths and 3 casings), 6 versions of the 27.5+, but only 1 29+ version.

Disappointing!


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## t-ruh (Jul 8, 2013)

Hopefully with the introduction of the salsa woodsmoke we will see more 29+ tires available.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ why do you think one new bike would cause tire manufacturers to develop new tires?


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ^ why do you think one new bike would cause tire manufacturers to develop new tires?


well before, there was only the Stache and a limited run of the Deadwood. Now, with the Woodsmoke and Fargo having 29+ capability, that's 2 established bikes and a new bike that can handle the platform.

*shrugs*


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

sgtrobo said:


> well before, there was only the Stache and a limited run of the Deadwood. Now, with the Woodsmoke and Fargo having 29+ capability, that's 2 established bikes and a new bike that can handle the platform.
> 
> *shrugs*


Ehh, the Surly Krampus was first and the reason the 29+ format even exists. ROS9+ was out about the same time as the Stache 29+ models. Salsa(Deadwood a drop bar), Santa Cruz, & Vassago kinda late to the game but at least more choices. Plus a ton of customs out there and an updated Krampus about to drop.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ exactly. 

don't get me wrong, i hope he's right and we get some new aggressive tire choices, but i doubt that the introduction of one new bike will be the driving force.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> that would be cool.
> 
> i need one of two things. i either want someone to put out a tire that's more aggressive than my Bomboloni (for the rear), or bigger and more aggressive than the DW (for the front) and i'll put the DW in the rear. i like option 2.
> 
> i feel like there's a big gap between the medium tread tires available and the ONE aggressive tire available.


have you checked out the vee bulldozer?

it is pretty damn burly tread pattern decently thick (seemingly well made) casing and should be plenty bulbous at 3.25. i got one sitting in my garage waiting for fall. gonna run it up front with the innova transformer out back. my budget solution for burlier winter meats.

for the summer the chupacabras have been treating me really well. but they are pretty chewed up so i need some new summer meats for next season too.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

thanks for the idea, those side knobs on the Bulldozer look way too small for me. I'm looking for a more aggressive tread. 

OTOH the Innova Transformer looks interesting as a rear tire.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

bikeny said:


> Anybody heard any news about the Duro Crux 29x3.25? Jeff Jones was showing them on his Plus bikes at last years Interbike, but nothing since.


He had them available, but looks like he may have sold through the first batch - Duro Crux Tire - Jones Bikes


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

just a note on the vee bulldozer.

been off the bike for a bit; but this weekend i just aired it up to see how it compares to my other tires.

it is noticeably smaller volume than the chupacabra. hopefully it will stretch a little but i don't see how the casing will ever become as large as the chupa. measured with the knobs they seem almost comparable in size (but the bulldozer still looks A LITTLE smaller)...

so tire sizing still sucks and one companies 3.0 is larger than someone else's 3.25.

i really like the tire in every other aspect. looks well made, seemingly sturdy sidewalls, decent tread, real knobs; it should just be labelled 3.0 (or even 2.8 or so if we are measuring casings).

i like the tire; but i'd REALLY like it if it were a true 3.25.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

max-a-mill said:


> just a note on the vee bulldozer.
> ...it is noticeably smaller volume than the chupacabra.


Did you take any actual measurements?
ETRTO
Diameter (Circumference / 3.1416)
Bead-Bead
Width

If so, I could then update my tire database below.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

sorry no calipers and you don't want me eyeballing it with a ruler...


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

*Tire measuring tape*



max-a-mill said:


> sorry no calipers and you don't want me eyeballing it with a ruler...


If you are interested, this works very well for measuring tires.

It is flexible so you do not have to lay the tire flat to measure bead to bead.
To measure diameter, simply wrap around the outside of inflated tire and divide the measurement by 3.1416 to get diameter.

https://www.amazon.com/120-Inch-Dur...1473866798&sr=1-18&keywords=soft+tape+measure


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

FB&SW,
curious how you've come upon your formulas for optimal rim width in that table without taking into account tread width and knob height

spread out a tire with aggressive side knobs too wide and they'll kill your rolling resistance


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

bruto said:


> FB&SW,
> ...spread out a tire with aggressive side knobs too wide and they'll kill your rolling resistance


Very true, that is why you don't want to run a Hüsker Dü on a Clown Shoe.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*29+ Duro Crux!*

So I managed to snag a pair of the 29x3.25" Duro Crux from the Jones site before they sold out, and they just arrived. They look awesome! Nice big beefy knobs and decent thickness sidewall. I measured the Bead to bead distance at 200mm, which is pretty much the same that I got for the 27.5x3.25" version, so this should be a real 3.25" tire. I have not had a chance to weigh or mount them yet, but these are no weight weenie tire, that's for sure! I'd guess the weight is 1200g or so. I'll post up more info when I weigh and mount them.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Awesome! Really liking the looks of this tire.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Quick update on the 29 Duro Crux. I weighed them at 1180g and 1181g, pretty close to my 1200g estimate, and very close to each other. I mounted them last night on a set of I35 rims and took them up to 30 PSI. No, this is obviously not riding pressure, but measurements for the tire new at 30 psi on 35mm internal width rims are 77mm casing width and 82mm knob width. Just for comparisons sake, I pumped up a well used Chupacabra to 30 psi on the same rim, and it measures 75mm casing width and 77mm knob width.

So after some ride time and stretching, I expect them to gain at least a couple of millimeters. And those big knobs should protect the sidewalls nicely. These things would probably be awesome on a wider set of rims, maybe even up to 60mm wide, but I don't have anything that wide in 29 inches. Jones actually has a really cool carbon 29er rim that's 56mm wide, but pricey!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Awesome! Can you get a diameter measurement when you have a chance?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Definitely think they deserve a wider rim if they're already measuring 3.5" on an i35mm rim :eekster: That's huge :eekster:



bikeny said:


> Quick update on the 29 Duro Crux...... I mounted them last night on a set of I35 rims and took them up to 30 PSI. No, this is obviously not riding pressure, but measurements for the tire new at 30 psi on 35mm internal width rims are 77mm casing width and 82mm knob width. Just for comparisons sake, I pumped up a well used Chupacabra to 30 psi on the same rim, and it measures 75mm casing width and 77mm knob width.
> 
> So after some ride time and stretching, I expect them to gain at least a couple of millimeters. And those big knobs should protect the sidewalls nicely. These things would probably be awesome on a wider set of rims, maybe even up to 60mm wide, but I don't have anything that wide in 29 inches. Jones actually has a really cool carbon 29er rim that's 56mm wide, but pricey!


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

LyNx, get your math straight 
https://www.google.com/search?q=3.5 in in mm&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=-FHVVtqyIKnOygPfp7CoDQ&fg=1


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

bikeny said:


> ...Jones actually has a really cool carbon 29er rim that's 56mm wide, but pricey!


The Jones C-rim is 49mm wide. The alloy 'Fatlab 55' is 51 mm wide and only 95g heavier but a 80% less expensive.

Nextie is said to be coming out with o 29+ version of their 65mm rim.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

the problem with fatlab 55 rim is the staggered drilling, which will only work for fat hubs (spokes will hit the brake caliper on anything narrower)

their representative told me last year they're starting to make center drilled rims, but I haven't seen those anywhere


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Hahahah, sorry man, for some reason 88 stuck in my head when I went to do the conversion :skep: Not sure why, maybe just being super hopeful 


bruto said:


> LyNx, get your math straight
> https://www.google.com/search?q=3.5 in in mm&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=-FHVVtqyIKnOygPfp7CoDQ&fg=1


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

bruto said:


> the problem with fatlab 55 rim is the staggered drilling, which will only work for fat hubs (spokes will hit the brake caliper on anything narrower)


What about the NoTubes Hugo or Alex MD50? They both have a pretty narrow spoke offset.

PDF link below.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

those work with boost/regular hubs, yeah
I have MD50 actually, but they're out of stock in the only place that had them anyway

every 29+ rim BUT fatlab has proper drilling for non-fat hubs
and I wouldn't bother about rim weight, when you're gonna put 1kg tires on them, with a whole glass of sealant  MD50 don't feel too heavy and they weigh 800g each
every other rim out there is lighter

and your table is missing most of them, by the way
check out Kore Realm P45, Halo Vapour 50, SunRingle Duroc 50 & 40, Easton Arc+


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

FatBike&SlenderWoman said:


> The Jones C-rim is 49mm wide. The alloy 'Fatlab 55' is 51 mm wide and only 95g heavier but a 80% less expensive.
> 
> Nextie is said to be coming out with o 29+ version of their 65mm rim.


I assume you are talking about inside width? The Fatlab rim in 55mm outside, and I can't find an inside measurement, so I'll assume your 51mm number is correct. The Jones is 56mm outside and 49mm inside. It is lighter and more expensive than the Fatlab because it's carbon and doublewall. I'm willing to bet it's many times stronger than the singlewall Fatlab rim. And as mentioned, the spoke drilling makes it unusable for anything but fatbikes. I'll take a Stan's Hugo over the Fatlab any day.

A Nextie 29x65mm rim would be very interesting indeed. Probably wouldn't fit my frame though, as I'm pretty maxed out with the Crux on a 35mm internal rim.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

bikeny said:


> ...The Jones is 56mm outside and 49mm inside. It is lighter and more expensive than the Fatlab because it's carbon and doublewall. I'm willing to bet it's many times stronger than the singlewall Fatlab rim.


The Fatlab is a cheap rim but it's the only TLR rim out there in the gap between 50 and 90mm. The Jones rim is a well thought out high end rim. I especially like the 32 hole, 6mm offset which offers the option of symmetrical lacing on a rear hub.
I am currently running Hugos on 197/150 hubs without sealant so clearance issues are not top of mind for me.
There are a growing crop of light weight 3" - 4" fat tires out there begging for a 65-75mm rim that doesn't weigh more than the tires.
My goal is to do the Birkie this season on a 622 wheelset.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Why no 29 x 2.5-2.6 range yet? I had chat with Bontrager about their 29 x2.55 se4 but they said it's delayed until 2018. I thought Nobby Nic in 2.6 was due out by now too.


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## R-M-R (Jan 26, 2009)

attaboy said:


> Why no 29 x 2.5-2.6 range yet? I had chat with Bontrager about their 29 x2.55 se4 but they said it's delayed until 2018. I thought Nobby Nic in 2.6 was due out by now too.


I contacted Maxxis and they gave a vague reply that suggested they'll soon have 29" x 2.6" options.


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## philreske8614 (Apr 25, 2016)

attaboy said:


> Why no 29 x 2.5-2.6 range yet? I had chat with Bontrager about their 29 x2.55 se4 but they said it's delayed until 2018. I thought Nobby Nic in 2.6 was due out by now too.


Because they dropped 29" for 31"s... They're the new standard

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Schwalbe is here

http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/offroad-reader/nobby-nic.html



philreske8614 said:


> Because they dropped 29" for 31"s... They're the new standard
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

Please don't talk about Nobby Nic 2.6s until they are available to order! This trail of tears will finally end around Interbikein the Fallin the Winter in the Spring!


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

bikeny said:


> So I managed to snag a pair of the 29x3.25" Duro Crux from the Jones site before they sold out, and they just arrived. They look awesome! Nice big beefy knobs and decent thickness sidewall. I measured the Bead to bead distance at 200mm, which is pretty much the same that I got for the 27.5x3.25" version, so this should be a real 3.25" tire. I have not had a chance to weigh or mount them yet, but these are no weight weenie tire, that's for sure! I'd guess the weight is 1200g or so. I'll post up more info when I weigh and mount them.
> View attachment 1094730


Holy Carp! A real 29x3.25? That's insane! Can't wait to see pics mounted.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Bear Spleen said:


> Please don't talk about Nobby Nic 2.6s until they are available to order!


Unless some one somehow at least gets real life measurements off of one!


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Got my Duro Crux tires mounted up on hugo rims. Pretty happy to find a tire that is as big as it says on the sidewall. 83mm (3.26) wide at 12 psi. The tires work great and they fit great on my Chumba.

Untitled by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
Untitled by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Any chance of getting an outer diameter measurement of the Crux?

Thank you.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

TooSteep said:


> Any chance of getting an outer diameter measurement of the Crux?
> 
> Thank you.


What he said.


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## skidje (Oct 23, 2010)

nitrousjunky said:


> What he said.


guess diameter of rim + tire is asked for here. Would have also my interest.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Bear Spleen said:


> Please don't talk about Nobby Nic 2.6s until they are available to order! This trail of tears will finally end around Interbikein the Fallin the Winter in the Spring!


I just ordered some from r-2 bike in Germany, only EUR29 and I ordered enough other crap to defray the EUR25 shipping cost.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Yo boys n' girls, 29+ Maxxis Minions are now shipping from QBP. Go talk to your LBS. Mine are ordered and should be in my hands by Friday.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

pulsepro said:


> Yo boys n' girls, 29+ Maxxis Minions are now shipping from QBP. Go talk to your LBS. Mine are ordered and should be in my hands by Friday.


You are talking about "_Maxxis Minion DHF 29 x 2.50 Tire, Folding, 60tpi, Dual Compound, EXO, Tubeless Ready_" right? 3.0 doesn't exist (yet).


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

No, a 3.0" does not exists yet, but the 2.8" does  
http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/maxxis-highroller-2-8-a-1020562.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...hf-2-8-60tpi-dc-first-short-ride-1021805.html



GSJ1973 said:


> You are talking about "_Maxxis Minion DHF 29 x 2.50 Tire, Folding, 60tpi, Dual Compound, EXO, Tubeless Ready_" right? 3.0 doesn't exist (yet).


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

LyNx said:


> No, a 3.0" does not exists yet, but the 2.8" does
> http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/maxxis-highroller-2-8-a-1020562.html
> http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...hf-2-8-60tpi-dc-first-short-ride-1021805.html


Link to order? The typical sites that "mirror" qbp don't show it?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

My LBS has assured me 29x3.0 DHF will be in this week. I hope it's true!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Great to hear! Knew it had to be any day now.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

LyNx said:


> No, a 3.0" does not exists yet, but the 2.8" does
> http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/maxxis-highroller-2-8-a-1020562.html
> http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...hf-2-8-60tpi-dc-first-short-ride-1021805.html


This is the 29+ thread. He is talking about the 3.0" which is the only size 29+ Maxxis has in the works.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Ok NoNic 2.6 confirmed in R2 bike. 
Anyone can paste Maxxis 29+ tires available onlie? (beside Chronicle)


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

...or tell us how much they cost at your LBS


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I just hope someone can get there hands on a set and give us actual width and outside diameter soon!!


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

pulsepro said:


> My LBS has assured me 29x3.0 DHF will be in this week. I hope it's true!


My previous post was incorrect, Hawley USA is the distributor supplying the 29x3.0 Minions to my LBS. Should have them any day now.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Great to hear! Knew it had to be any day now.


I indeed received two Minon DHFs 29x3.0. They look monstrous. Gonna try one tomorrow with a Chronicle on the back of my Krampus.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

place, price, could you hook anyone else up with them, pulsepro?


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

bruto said:


> place, price, could you hook anyone else up with them, pulsepro?


Got them from my awesome LBS in Massachusetts. They ordered them from Hawley USA. Pretty sure any shop with an account can get them. Paid $85 each.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

what about people who don't have such awesome LBS with access to the distribution network in their vicinity? 
of course, I could wait for these to pop up online, possibly even discounted
maybe that would even happen before such a tire becomes relevant this season 
or, maybe, someone could help me get it sooner


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

pulsepro said:


> I indeed received two Minon DHFs 29x3.0. They look monstrous. Gonna try one tomorrow with a Chronicle on the back of my Krampus.


Sweeeeet!!! Please get us a width (on your specific rim) after you get a ride in along with a ride report. Thanx!


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

yogiprophet said:


> Sweeeeet!!! Please get us a width (on your specific rim) after you get a ride in along with a ride report. Thanx!


Did my first ride on the DHF Minion 29x3.0 this morning. I ran a Chronicle on the front all season and never felt like I was lacking front traction. Now with a Minion, front end traction is insane. Stuff the front tire into a turn and hold on! I've never experienced so much confidence while cornering.

I don't have calipers, but the casing feels a tiny bit less bulbous than a highly used Chronicle on the same WTB asym i35 rim. I suspect it'll stretch/grow with use.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

pulsepro said:


> Did my first ride on the DHF Minion 39x3.0 this morning. I ran a Chronicle on the front all season and never felt like I was lacking front traction. Now with a Minion, front end traction is insane. Stuff the front tire into a turn and hold on! I've never experienced so much confidence while cornering.
> 
> I don't have calipers, but the casing feels a tiny bit less bulbous than a highly used Chronicle on the same WTB asym i35 rim. I suspect it'll stretch/grow with use.


Sounds like it could be the ultimate front tire. I've been using the 120tpi DW ever since it came out on the front of my Krampus, but the sidewalls were too flimsy and had to put in a tube (along with the problem of it just coming of the rim entirely while riding). I use the 60tpi version on the rear, but it is a bit too heavy for a front tire; the DHF seems like a perfect middle ground between those two. Which version do you have? Did the tire seem to hold its shape at all while holding it your hands? The 120tpi DW folded like a piece of paper when sat vertically while the 60tpi DW could be sat on the ground and held its shape perfectly.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

yogiprophet said:


> Sounds like it could be the ultimate front tire. I've been using the 120tpi DW ever since it came out on the front of my Krampus, but the sidewalls were too flimsy and had to put in a tube (along with the problem of it just coming of the rim entirely while riding). I use the 60tpi version on the rear, but it is a bit too heavy for a front tire; the DHF seems like a perfect middle ground between those two. Which version do you have? Did the tire seem to hold its shape at all while holding it your hands? The 120tpi DW folded like a piece of paper when sat vertically while the 60tpi DW could be sat on the ground and held its shape perfectly.


I have the top of the line Minion.....whatever that is. The sidewall feel substantial, way better than the Knards I used to run. I've not held a DW. Get a Minon. You won't be disappointed.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Pulsepro, it appears that you got yours for less than Maxxis is asking in their store:
Bicycle, Fat Bike / Plus Tire, Minion DHF 

feel like hooking anyone else up with them?


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

bruto said:


> Pulsepro, it appears that you got yours for less than Maxxis is asking in their store:
> Bicycle, Fat Bike / Plus Tire, Minion DHF*
> 
> feel like hooking anyone else up with them?


I have an awesome LBS that always hooks me up. Sorry, I can't hook anyone up. Gotta respect the small businesses that treat locals well. Keep your dollars local.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you're talking to a foreigner
LBS here don't sell Maxxis, and a whole lot of other stuff
pretty much everything has to be ordered from internet

it's not that I wanna impose - I can wait for online stores to get these I guess - but the argument you made (keep whatever local) is not applicable here because it's based on a false assumption that I may have an LBS just like yours which can get me everything yours can get you and which I don't wanna sponsor for whatever reason
Just wanted to point that out


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Pics!?!?!?


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

*120 or 60 tpi?*



pulsepro said:


> I indeed received two Minon DHFs 29x3.0. They look monstrous. Gonna try one tomorrow with a Chronicle on the back of my Krampus.


60 tpi or 120? I am assuming 120?
I would like to lose 200 grams on my front tire.(1380 gram Dirt wizard)
Maxxis says 1,110 grams for the 120
and 1,160 for the 60 tpi.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Pics!?!?!?























Loving this tire on the front. A Minion DHR on the rear would be overkill for me.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

pulsepro said:


> View attachment 1100358
> View attachment 1100359
> View attachment 1100360
> View attachment 1100361
> ...


THANKS!! Looks great and doesn't look much taller than the Chronicle.

FYI I prefer DHF front and rear over DHR/DHF, seems to roll way better and still have plenty of traction. That's if you decided you needed more on the rear.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> THANKS!! Looks great and doesn't look much taller than the Chronicle.
> 
> FYI I prefer DHF front and rear over DHR/DHF, seems to roll way better and still have plenty of traction. That's if you decided you needed more on the rear.


Traction most certainly won't be an issue with any of the 29+ Minion offerings. The grip is absurd. You can corner like a hooligan and maintain complete control. Heck, I even tried braking while diving into corner, still no sign of washing out.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Pretty much what I was expecting, but it's still great to hear!


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

pulsepro said:


> Loving this tire on the front. A Minion DHR on the rear would be overkill for me.


Good lawd. I think I could be plenty happy with your current set up here in SW Idaho!

Los


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Yo Pulse Pro, where did you find the Minion? I called my two local mountain shops about a week and a half ago and they had no news. One even called his distributor. I wanna run it on the front with my Chronicle out back as well


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Yo Pulse Pro, where did you find the Minion? I called my two local mountain shops about a week and a half ago and they had no news. One even called his distributor. I wanna run it on the front with my Chronicle out back as well


My LBS got it from a distributor - Hawley USA. Besides that, all I can say is I have a great LBS, but clearly there are other great shops elsewhere.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Yo Pulse Pro, where did you find the Minion? I called my two local mountain shops about a week and a half ago and they had no news. One even called his distributor. I wanna run it on the front with my Chronicle out back as well





sslos said:


> Good lawd. I think I could be plenty happy with your current set up here in SW Idaho!
> 
> Los


The Chronicles / Minion combo is like a Ikon / Ardent combo on steroids.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

pulsepro said:


> My LBS got it from a distributor - Hawley USA. Besides that, all I can say is I have a great LBS, but clearly there are other great shops elsewhere.


Thanks. Gotta call my shop tomorrow and get one ordered. Been waiting for this to come out since I saw it at Sea Otter.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Straight from Maxxis - The OD of the 29x3.0 Minions will be *778mm +/- 5mm*

Laid my eyes on these tires over the weekend, can you say MEATY!


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

bikeny said:


> I was just browsing the WTB website and looking at the new Ranger tire. They have 6 different 26+ versions (2 widths and 3 casings), 6 versions of the 27.5+, but only 1 29+ version.
> 
> Disappointing!


I noticed that QBP has a place holder for a Tough casing version of the 29x3, so that will make two options from WTB for 29+.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> I noticed that QBP has a place holder for a Tough casing version of the 29x3, so that will make two options from WTB for 29+.


That's good news! I could see a Minion/Ranger combo in my future...

Los


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

pulsepro said:


> View attachment 1100358
> View attachment 1100359
> View attachment 1100360
> View attachment 1100361
> ...


Can you put some calipers on it and measure the width?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

rfxc said:


> Can you put some calipers on it and measure the width?


Didn't have calipers this weekend, but on a Hugo they measured right dead on 3" with a tape measure.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm having zero luck getting a Minion here on the SF peninsula for some reason. Everybody says they're not available until 11/4. Guess it's still not too far off


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

sslos said:


> That's good news! I could see a Minion/Ranger combo in my future...
> 
> Los


Me too especially for winter PNW riding

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

QBP, Universal, aebike, etc. now have them in stock.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> Straight from Maxxis - The OD of the 29x3.0 Minions will be *778mm +/- 5mm*


Actual height on a 45 i.w. rim is *764mm* after 1 day of use.
Casing measures 75mm and outer knob is 74mm on this rim.
weight of the 2 tires I bought are 1110g and 1120g on a bike scale with a 10g precision.

Fits perfectly on a 2016/2017 Fox 34 29 Boost.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

yogiprophet said:


> Actual height on a 45 id rim is *764mm* after 1 day of use.
> Casing measures 75mm and outer knob is 74mm on this rim.
> weight of the 2 tires I bought are 1110g and 1120g on a bike scale with a 10g precision.
> 
> Fits perfectly on a 2016/2017 Fox 34 29 Boost.


Hrmm, that's quite a bit shorter and closer to what my buddy measured on the one at Cyclofest on a Hugo rim.

I kinda like your numbers better anyway!


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

^^^That Minion looks like a monster! A 3.0 Minion SS would make a great rear or even a front as well on trails where you want a low RR but still have good side knobs.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

jnroyal said:


> QBP, Universal, aebike, etc. now have them in stock.


Finally got one on order. Looking forward to my Minion/Chronicle setup.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Guys & Gals, I must ask one HUGE favour of you, STOP using ID when describing internal rim width. For those who don't know ID=Internal Diameter, the correct term should be IW=Internal WIDTH.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

LyNx said:


> Guys & Gals, I must ask one HUGE favour of you, STOP using ID when describing internal rim width. For those who don't know ID=Internal Diameter, the correct term should be IW=Internal WIDTH.


Thanks you! I tried to correct people on that before and got nowhere. Somebody told me it stood for Internal Dimension!:madman:

D = Diameter
W = Width


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

I'm going to sleep an inch deeper tonight


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

yogiprophet said:


> Fits perfectly on a 2016/2017 Fox 34 29 Boost.


Fits a 2014 Fox 34 (non-Boost), as well.

After two rides with the 120 tpi DHF on a WTB i35 rim here are my thoughts compared to the 120 tpi DW's I've been running:

Weaknesses:
- Heavier than DW
- "Harder" casing and/or rubber is noticeably less supple than a DW, may be an issue with a rigid fork? 
- No cheaper than a DW
- Not a huge fan of the giant yellow MAXXIS logo on the side compared to the more subdued Surly logos

Strengths:
- Rolls much faster than a DW
- Corners better than a DW - knobs are stiff and really bite deep into the dirt
- No more expensive than a DW

Tire tested on the front of a Transition Bandit in central North Carolina (lots of leaves and roots, not many rocks).


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

jnroyal said:


> Fits a 2014 Fox 34 (non-Boost), as well.
> 
> After two rides with the 120 tpi DHF on a WTB i35 rim here are my thoughts compared to the 120 tpi DW's I've been running:
> 
> ...


Thanks! Good to hear on the NC leaves and roots conditions!



bonesetter2004 said:


> I'm going to sleep an inch deeper tonight


Well played. Although I do agree with LyNx and bikeny


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

jnroyal said:


> Fits a 2014 Fox 34 (non-Boost), as well.
> 
> After two rides with the 120 tpi DHF on a WTB i35 rim here are my thoughts compared to the 120 tpi DW's I've been running:
> 
> ...


-My 120 tpi Minion weighs 25 grams more than my 120 tpi Dirt Wizard
-Harder casing equals stiffer tire, and for me i can run 1.5 psi lower than the DW.
-Same price for 120 tpi $90 or $80 for the 60 tpi versions.

Except for the ounce weight difference and the big yellow MAXXIS the weakness are plus' for me.


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## durkind (Jul 8, 2005)

deleted


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## durkind (Jul 8, 2005)

philreske8614 said:


> Can we get a list together of Rolling resistances for these options?
> 
> Chupsbaccerea
> Chronicle
> ...


Any updates on Rolling Resistance. Looking for a fast tire but with some sidewall protection. Is the Bomboloni the best of all worlds??


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## wheelcool (May 23, 2008)

Boy am I excited to try out those minions! 

I have a question, I have a set of Chupas and the rear is starting to wear down but still some good miles left on it. These tires have seen a lot of rocky terrain and such and one thing I am noticing is a very significant wobble. I've check and double checked that the wheel is true and seated properly. I'm wondering giving the large volume of these tires that over time the tend to stretch out and lose their shape to a degree and it's just something to expect. Anyone else have a similar experience?


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

durkind said:


> Any updates on Rolling Resistance. Looking for a fast tire but with some sidewall protection. Is the Bomboloni the best of all worlds??


I haven't tried the Chronicle or Dirt wizard but I felt like it does have a better sidewall
than the other two. yes slightly heaver than the Chupa and slightly smaller in my experience, but the sweet spot for me. and you can find them discounted now too.


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## jocke (Jul 26, 2013)

In the coming months I'm turning my Kona Unit into a half-plus, by getting a fatter front. Currently running a 2.4 Ardent up front with a 2.2 in the rear, and haven't had any issues with them.

Would a Chronicle be a decent choice as an upcoming front (with the 2.4 Ardent in the rear)? Roots, rocks, gravel, pavement - I'm riding all over the place so I'm looking for a do-it-all.

Thanks for any help!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jocke said:


> In the coming months I'm turning my Kona Unit into a half-plus, by getting a fatter front. Currently running a 2.4 Ardent up front with a 2.2 in the rear, and haven't had any issues with them.
> 
> Would a Chronicle be a decent choice as an upcoming front (with the 2.4 Ardent in the rear)? Roots, rocks, gravel, pavement - I'm riding all over the place so I'm looking for a do-it-all.
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Chronicles are possibly the worst tire Maxxis has ever produced. As a front tire it is a disaster, as a rear tire it would work in dry firm.

PSA:
I've got a set of 29 x 3 DWs, low mileage, one tire has a sidewall patch from a cut ~1/4", otherwise solid tires.

PM for details.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Chronicles are possibly the worst tire Maxxis has ever produced. As a front tire it is a disaster, as a rear tire it would work in dry firm.


So true


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## jocke (Jul 26, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Chronicles are possibly the worst tire Maxxis has ever produced. As a front tire it is a disaster, as a rear tire it would work in dry firm.


What would a better option be? Different tread, i.e. Chupas? Everyone seem to think Surly tires are thin/flimsy, so I'm staying away from those.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Bomboloni's pretty good to me


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## jocke (Jul 26, 2013)

bruto said:


> Bomboloni's pretty good to me


Seems like it's a toss-up between Chupas and Bombolonis, from what I've read. But I'm sure there's people out there who swear by one or the other. Maybe I should stop thinking about it and just go get one and find out myself.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Rangers are getting reviews including this one-
WTB Ranger Plus Tires: First Impressions
as being faster rolling than Chups with good grip at a lower psi.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm 200 lbs and have beat the snot out of my Dirt Wizard 120tpi as a front tire. great tire. i'll admit that when i first got it i thought it had thin feeling sidewalls, but i've had more than a few rim strikes and spend many hours in rock gardens and chunky terrain with no trouble. i'm impressed, i honestly didn't think it was going to last this long. 

i just swapped out my rear tire from a Bomboloni to a WTB Ranger. Bomboloni was OK, lacked grip on loose climbs and mud. I've only got a couple weeks on the Ranger on leaf covered trails that have been frequently wet and different than summer conditions that were dry and loose. i think it does ok in the dry but really lacks grip on wet and loose conditions. it's ok for the price, but i'm not overly impressed. 

next years setup will be 60 tpi DW in the rear and a Maxxis Minion in front. really looking forward to that setup. 

(BTW, I have two new 27tpi Knard take-offs i'll let go cheap if anyone wants them)


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

i'll elaborate. I really liked the Bomboloni casing, super plush and good volume, just wish it had more aggressive knobs. it also had a decent wobble in the casing which a lot of other people reported too. I ended up cutting the casing, twice, on rocks and it lived the end of it's days with a tube in it. eventually the center knobs became worn, and side knobs began to chunk off and got undercut. by the time i took the pictures it was very slippery everywhere.

i dont have enough time on the WTB to give a long term review. the casing it light. probably too light for my weight and riding style/terrain. again, wish the knobs were a bit more aggressive. i find most medium tread tires ride similarly, like medium tread tires. whatever, if it dies i'll only be out $55 or whatever i paid? super cheap.

pics.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> i'll elaborate. I really liked the Bomboloni casing, super plush and good volume, just wish it had more aggressive knobs.


If you're just going to throw the tire out anyway try cutting the intermediate tread blocks. Every second one makes a difference or cut them all. To me it felt like they were making the cornering blocks lift and unload in the loose stuff. Seems to help the rest of the tread clear as well.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Just fit my 29x2.6 Nobby Nic and measures 65mm at the sidewall and 67mm at the outer lugs at 40psi on less than ideal width SRAM Roam 50 rims. Very happy with this, much wider than the 2.35 Nobby Nic I had before and the 2.35 Ikon on the rear. Good front XC tyre for my dry loose area.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

next years setup will be 60 tpi DW in the rear and a Maxxis Minion in front. really looking forward to that setup. 



Ohh you will like it alot, I do.
I could not run the 120 tpi DW's without getting casing flats at anything under 16 psi, including ruining a carbon rim with 16.5 psi!
60 tpi DW is SUCH a better tire can run at 15psi. My Minion has 14.5 psi and they don't squirm like the 120 tpi DW's did.
and for what it is worth I am only 140 pounds, have no idea how you big guys can ride such low pressure? Guess i shouldn't be riding my Gnarvster like a downhill bike.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ good news there, thanks. 

I generally run the lowest pressure i can in an endless search for more grip. that goes for everything from my cross bike right through to the fat bike. i spend a lot of time on rigid bikes and have learned to ride light. if i get a few light rim strikes per ride i know i'm right on the line of bad things happening. and consequently, i wreck tires every so often. (like both of the tires on the Krampus). sharp rocks seem to be my downfall. 

what i don't understand is how/why people who weigh 150 lbs run 12-15 psi in their fatbikes?!?!? why? I'm pretty sure i've never gotten above 8psi in the rear in summer. whatever, to each his own.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Trailice said:


> next years setup will be 60 tpi DW in the rear and a Maxxis Minion in front. really looking forward to that setup.
> 
> Ohh you will like it alot, I do.
> I could not run the 120 tpi DW's without getting casing flats at anything under 16 psi, including ruining a carbon rim with 16.5 psi!
> ...


Could be inconsistencies from one persons gauge to another.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Trailice said:


> next years setup will be 60 tpi DW in the rear and a Maxxis Minion in front. really looking forward to that setup.
> 
> Ohh you will like it alot, I do.
> I could not run the 120 tpi DW's without getting casing flats at anything under 16 psi, including ruining a carbon rim with 16.5 psi!
> ...


A lot of it is inner width of the rims also. I run i45 and get no squirm from my 60 TPI DWs til something around 11-12 psi, but I run them more like 15-16 psi for rocks etc. I'm 220# before getting suited up. I don't see how guys are running them on i30-35 and not getting squirm.

Will be going to DHFs soon, starting to slip standing and mashing on loose over hard.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Used 27.5+ and 29+ Tires for Sale:

(2) Surly Dirt Wizard 29 x 3, 120tpi, 3/4 tread life, on tire has a sidewall patch from a 1/16" puncture (runs tubeless fine)

(2) WTB Trail Boss 3.0, good condition, 2/3 tread remaining.

(2) WTB Ranger 2.8, TCS Heavy Casing, like new, less than ten miles used.

(1 or 2) Specialized Purgatory 3.0, 3/4 tread remaining.

Also have some 26 x 4.0 Jumbo Jim Snakeskin, Vee Rubber Snowshoe 26 x 4.6

Best offer + shipping from 98801. Bonus for buying multiple sets.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jocke said:


> What would a better option be? Different tread, i.e. Chupas? Everyone seem to think Surly tires are thin/flimsy, so I'm staying away from those.


Dirt Wizards, Minions.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dirt Wizards, Minions.


60 tpi Dirt Wizards is the flavor I use.
Minion will just rub the crown on my 120mm travel '16 Fox 34 27.5+ boost fork at full compression!!!!!! (with a 45mm inner width rim)
Dirt Wizards will not, was wondering how they(Minion DHF) fit the Rock Shox or Manitou forks? Or even the 140mm travel version of the Fox 34, maybey even the Fox 36+ boost?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Not saying this is an answer - but my gravity Vidar just barely clears the arch on my 2016 fox 34 boost 140 and it comes no where near the crown - even with the air spring completely deflated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Trailice said:


> 60 tpi Dirt Wizards is the flavor I use.
> Minion will just rub the crown on my 120mm travel '16 Fox 34 27.5+ boost fork at full compression!!!!!! (with a 45mm inner width rim)
> Dirt Wizards will not, was wondering how they(Minion DHF) fit the Rock Shox or Manitou forks? Or even the 140mm travel version of the Fox 34, maybey even the Fox 36+ boost?


So there is clearance at the arch, but rubs the crown at bottom out?? Sheesh! I've been dumb and assumed if one was good the other would be.

Bottom out spacer in the fork, perhaps?

My chronicles are close to the arch (5mm?) I've never even checked the crown at full travel. Well, I guess I have. I'm sure I've used full travel a few, or more, times.

2012 Fox 34.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Just Saw these:

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/store/p/22918-ORIGIN8-Tsunami.aspx


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Just Saw these:
> 
> - ORIGIN8 Tsunami #590706


Looks like another re-badged Panaracer Fat B Nimble.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Yep, new name, new low price...


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## javisst44 (Jun 27, 2016)

Is there any 29 x 2.8 tires? 3.0 just won't fit in my frame I think.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

Fat-B-Nimble is 2.7 to 2.8 even though it is labeled a 3.0. I just mounted some up and noticeably narrower than WTB Ranger or Chuppa's


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

reamer41 said:


> So there is clearance at the arch, but rubs the crown at bottom out?? Sheesh! I've been dumb and assumed if one was good the other would be.
> 
> Bottom out spacer in the fork, perhaps?
> 
> ...


It's easy to check for peace of mind. Just let all the air out and compress. Then pump back up.

If it does hit though, then a 5 or 10mm bottom out spacer might be needed.

On most forks now if the arch is good, so is the crown... But it's not guaranteed.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

jnroyal said:


> Fits a 2014 Fox 34 (non-Boost), as well.
> 
> After two rides with the 120 tpi DHF on a WTB i35 rim here are my thoughts compared to the 120 tpi DW's I've been running:
> 
> ...


Pretty much my findings

I'm running one in the front of a Jones Plus at 10 psi (189lb's), so rigid fork and previously a DW

Rolls super fast, and the cornering is off the scale - lean in, lean in more and then some more again. You can feel the knobs digging in

Bike's front feels tank like now. A very burly tyre (I get 2.9" across the knobs)


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## Rangie (Jan 17, 2015)

It's not new, but I haven't seen any mention of the Maxxis Hookworm 29x2.5

If anybody has a need for plus sized urban silliness-

It measures 2.62" on a WTB Scraper at 15psi.

Nice round profile. No weird handling or autosteer.

Set up tubeless easy. It probably didn't even need sealant but I put some in anyhow.

Traction is better than I expected.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> So there is clearance at the arch, but rubs the crown at bottom out?? Sheesh! I've been dumb and assumed if one was good the other would be.
> 
> Bottom out spacer in the fork, perhaps?
> 
> ...


Photo perhaps? What width rim? 
What's your guess at a 27.5 Chronicle in the same fork . . . likely to rub at the bushing bulge?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

With the minimal amount (1-2mm) the Minion comes in contact with the crown (actually it is the front of the steerer tube that protrudes below the crown), it wouldn't even be a problem. But if you want to run this tire (I am and am loving it) and are freaked out by the possibility of going over the bars however so slight that is, just file about 2mm from the FRONT of the steerer tube. In about 30 seconds the problem is solved.


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## Ne1son (Dec 21, 2016)

Is there a difference in the centre knob height of the DHF and DHR II? If so it may be possible to run the DHR II as a front tyre?


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

How low do you go with your knards? I've been riding the Krampus in the snow, and obviously the fatter/wider I can make them the better. 

PSA: as you all know, I'm sure, the knards aren't great in the snow.


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## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

yogiprophet said:


> With the minimal amount (1-2mm) the Minion comes in contact with the crown (actually it is the front of the steerer tube that protrudes below the crown), it wouldn't even be a problem. But if you want to run this tire (I am and am loving it) and are freaked out by the possibility of going over the bars however so slight that is, just file about 2mm from the FRONT of the steerer tube. In about 30 seconds the problem is solved.


That is a simple answer, does not help resale value though.
Tire rub on the rear is one thing, but the front is a little scarier. 
You cannot change travel to change were the fork bottoms out, this should happen on 140mm travel as well.
Another idea was to put 2-3mm O-rings on the stantions to help stop the fork from that last little bit of travel.
But my real answer is get a fork that actually fits this rim/tire combo(45 id rims/DHF29x3").
Anyone know what will fit?


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Trailice said:


> You cannot change travel to change were the fork bottoms out, this should happen on 140mm travel as well.?


How about doubling or tripling up on the bottom out bumpers inside the bottom of the lowers? Requires dropping the lowers, but it should limit your travel by 4-5mm or so, relatively safely (both to fork and rider).


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Trailice said:


> That is a simple answer, does not help resale value though.


While you're concerned about selling your bike, I'm enjoying riding mine. Sorry, I couldn't help being a smartass  Seriously though, my tire only comes in contact maybe 1mm if that. With the way the DHF II knobs are designed like a ramp or wedge, they would just slide off the steerer tube not grab onto it. Because of that i feel no need to file it as I'm not worried a bit. On the other hand, if my fork ever bottoms out, that would tell me I need to add another 10mm chip in the air chamber or add more air if it had too much sag. I read you've already done that, so it does seem like the Fox is not for you. Personally though, I think the Fox/DHFII combo is a go and for the majority of people would work perfectly.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Actually adding an internal stop will do the trick to reduce the actual travel, not sure how you'd do it on your fork, never done it, but it was done on the older X-Fusion 26"/650B options when they were being used for 650B (not sure on the new stuff).



Trailice said:


> That is a simple answer, does not help resale value though. Tire rub on the rear is one thing, but the front is a little scarier. You cannot change travel to change were the fork bottoms out, this should happen on 140mm travel as well.
> Another idea was to put 2-3mm O-rings on the stantions to help stop the fork from that last little bit of travel.
> But my real answer is get a fork that actually fits this rim/tire combo(45 id rims/DHF29x3").
> Anyone know what will fit?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Seeking advice from plus tire gurus. I got a 2016 JabberWocky as an early Christmas present, and looking to go full plus tires. The rear end will clear any tire I want, I want to stuff as big of a tire as I can under my X-Fusion Slide fork. I took a pic, what can I fit in there?
Really interested in either a 29" Innova Transformer or a 29" Vee Trax Fatty for the front, because these seem to be 'undersized' and not quite a full 3.0. I'll do a Trax Fatty on the back (unless others say otherwise- welcome to opinions)
They'll be mounted to Nextie i30 carbon rims F/R
Here's what I'm measuring on my fork:








Based on my pic, Is this doable? I'm reading the tape measure as having 79mm of clearance. There's a few posts suggesting the Transformer is about 73mm wide, and the Trax is a little less. 
There's no mud in AZ, so that's not an issue.

Advice welcome!


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

The problem with the x-fusion slide is that the crown will hit the tire at full compression. I thought I might be able to get by with grinding a little off the arch to give clearance, but when I let the air out of the fork, the crown dropped below the top of the arch. I don't think you can limit the travel on the slide to prevent that.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

The transformer casing isn't huge, but the nobs are big. I don't foresee it fitting very well. 
The vtf might fit, but it's also not a tire I'd run in front. 
The 29x2.6 nobby Nick would likely work, as would the panaracer FBN.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

From my experience with X-Fusion forks (Trace and Velvet), that is not going to be your problem, it will be the actual arch height that will most likely not allow a PLUS tyre to fit in there. You need to measure from your axle to top of arch and then ask or look around for those measurements for PLUS tyres.



ARandomBiker said:


> Seeking advice from plus tire gurus. I got a 2016 JabberWocky as an early Christmas present, and looking to go full plus tires. The rear end will clear any tire I want, I want to stuff as big of a tire as I can under my X-Fusion Slide fork. I took a pic, what can I fit in there?
> Really interested in either a 29" Innova Transformer or a 29" Vee Trax Fatty for the front, because these seem to be 'undersized' and not quite a full 3.0. I'll do a Trax Fatty on the back (unless others say otherwise welcome to opinions)They'll be mounted to Nextie i30 carbon rims F/R Here's what I'm measuring on my fork:


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Just get a proper fork before you waste money on shitty tires trying to make that one work


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Bleh. I guess I'm stuck with small tires. I went for a 20 mile ride today and carefully watched where the sag o-ring maxed out. Even reset it a few times. When I got home I let the air out and watched where the crown compared to the brake arch. At 'max used' travel, I'd be fine but i still have about 10-12mm of travel left. Which puts the crown about 8mm closer to the tire than the arch at full bottom.



socal_jack said:


> Just get a proper fork before you waste money on shitty tires trying to make that one work


Not all of us are fortunate enough to just throw $650 or more at a Manitou Magnum, plus a few hundred more for a boost hub and building a new wheel.
I'm not going to argue with you over what constitutes a 'shitty' tire, but I can tell you here in PHX, more than one LBS stopped carrying the Chronicle and the Ranger because so many people were shredding them. Have to ask for them to order if you want one. So I chose the Transformer because it's at least a durable and 1/3 the price.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

ARandomBiker said:


> Bleh. I guess I'm stuck with small tires. I went for a 20 mile ride today and carefully watched where the sag o-ring maxed out. Even reset it a few times. When I got home I let the air out and watched where the crown compared to the brake arch. At 'max used' travel, I'd be fine but i still have about 10-12mm of travel left. Which puts the crown about 8mm closer to the tire than the arch at full bottom.
> 
> Not all of us are fortunate enough to just throw $650 or more at a Manitou Magnum, plus a few hundred more for a boost hub and building a new wheel.
> I'm not going to argue with you over what constitutes a 'shitty' tire, but I can tell you here in PHX, more than one LBS stopped carrying the Chronicle and the Ranger because so many people were shredding them. Have to ask for them to order if you want one. So I chose the Transformer because it's at least a durable and 1/3 the price.


Many fox forks work. As do some rockshox. There's a cheaper manitou, and also the Carver fork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have a set of Dirt Wizards, 29+, 120tpi, >75% tread life, one tire has a small patched spot that goes tubeless no problems, the other tire is perfect.

Best offer plus shipping


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

ARandomBiker said:


> Bleh. I guess I'm stuck with small tires. I went for a 20 mile ride today and carefully watched where the sag o-ring maxed out. Even reset it a few times. When I got home I let the air out and watched where the crown compared to the brake arch. At 'max used' travel, I'd be fine but i still have about 10-12mm of travel left. Which puts the crown about 8mm closer to the tire than the arch at full bottom.
> 
> Not all of us are fortunate enough to just throw $650 or more at a Manitou Magnum, plus a few hundred more for a boost hub and building a new wheel.
> I'm not going to argue with you over what constitutes a 'shitty' tire, but I can tell you here in PHX, more than one LBS stopped carrying the Chronicle and the Ranger because so many people were shredding them. Have to ask for them to order if you want one. So I chose the Transformer because it's at least a durable and 1/3 the price.


I hear ya, but you may end spending that the long way. DWs are not tall full 1/2" shorter than most 3" tires about same as my 2.4 Gomas. The DW 60 tpi isn't shitty but the 120 tpi has a shred history though you'd likely have a width problem with that fork. X3 Minions are bomb but doubt you'd fit at all. Have gone thru this all myself, don't want to unnecessarily spend bucks either but outside of rigid forks and a very few non-boost suspension forks, boost is really the way to go. Non optimal rim widths only buy you so much.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Run a Fat B Nimble until it's time to upgrade. Good 2.65-2.75 tire.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I considered the FBN, but everything I've read says that tire is very fragile and prone to sidewall cuts. 
I'd try them if I got a pair for cheap, but they're too expensive to take that risk. AZ desert is merciless on tires.

I ordered a pair of 2.6 Nobby Nics, I know they'll fit and reports say they're durable, the DoubleDown casing and the snakeskin sidewalls are well regarded.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Nobby Nics are great but also $$$. Fat B Nimbles go on sale- $48.93 at Outside Outfitters right now, FYI. Maybe I've just been lucky- Rockies riding is not as hard as AZ desert on tires but not gentle either. But then mine are on 40mm rims and a rigid bike so I pick lines with care and walls are not as exposed as wide rims.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

The only place to get 2.6 NoNi's are German online shops, I got them for like $42 each. The shipping sucks, like $20, but I got enough other junk to make it not hurt so bad. If I had waited until the cheapest of the 3 places had the PaceStar version in stock, I could have gotten both to to door for $93. I paid a few bucks more to have them shipped now from a different store.

I'm interested to hear how your FBNs wear. I might be interested in giving them a shot.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

What's your vote for the best 29+ 3.0 for the snow? 

The Chronicle looks like it might have better side knobbing, or the Minions? Even the DWs seem like they might hold and clear better than the Knards. Anything else??

Thanks!


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

I'm sure I'll get flamed but I find that the softer the surface the less tread matters- volume and pressure and compliance (soft casing) to the surface rule. I've ridden the essentially treadless Stans Crow on snow a bunch and it works damn well (relative to volume). Packed snow behaves more like dirt- I just try to avoid the tires that self steer badly at low pressures. 

Soft snow? Chupa followed by Chronicle maybe, on a 50mm rim at under 10 PSI.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

SVO said:


> I'm sure I'll get flamed but I find that the softer the surface the less tread matters- volume and pressure and compliance (soft casing) to the surface rule. I've ridden the essentially treadless Stans Crow on snow a bunch and it works damn well (relative to volume). Packed snow behaves more like dirt- I just try to avoid the tires that self steer badly at low pressures.
> 
> Soft snow? Chupa followed by Chronicle maybe, on a 50mm rim at under 10 PSI.


I had never even heard of Stan's Crow. Just looking it up it's a 2.0? Wow, that seems like I'd be heading in the other direction. I agree that dry, packed snow is easier to manage, but this wet, slushy stuff just plugs up the Knards and renders them pretty worthless. Even at < 10 psi it's just a skating rink. (IMHO)


Melis22hael said:


> damn i wish i would've held out a little bit before buying the knard mailmarke.com - Email marketing


I love the Knards in dry, well-packed conditions -- dirt and rocks and everything in between. I even rode them today for 15 miles on relatively dry pavement. But slushy snow, or wet, slippery conditions... I'm just thinking there must be something better in 3.0.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The melis fool is a spammer, they have gotten more inventive for bypassing the system. They make some half relevant comment then post that spam link. Those idiots have been doing it for like 2 weeks now.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Doh! Thanks.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

Magicscreen said:


> ...I love the Knards in dry, well-packed conditions... But slushy snow, or wet, slippery conditions... I'm just thinking there must be something better in 3.0.


There is!
Xtreme Warrior, same bead-bead dimension and casing profile as the 120tpi Knard allowing them to be mounted on any rim as a Knard but with a wider, more aggressive tread, basically a Knard on steroids. 
Shown here on 85 x 622mm Xtreme carbon rims, this bike set two Guinness world speed records for a mountain bike on sand.


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## ejabbale (Mar 3, 2015)

This may have been covered within this thread and I missed it but figured I would get some opinions. I have 3" Chupas now that certainly look to have another season on them. I am intrigued by the minions but not sure its worth the money while the Chupas still have life on them? If it helps, I ride in upstate NY where it is rooty and rocky.

Thanks!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

I've never heard of the Xtreme Warrior tire. Have you used them for snow? Thanks for the reply!



FatBike&SlenderWoman said:


> There is!
> Xtreme Warrior, same bead-bead dimension and casing profile as the 120tpi Knard allowing them to be mounted on any rim as a Knard but with a wider, more aggressive tread, basically a Knard on steroids.
> Shown here on 85 x 622mm Xtreme carbon rims, this bike set two Guinness world speed records for a mountain bike on sand.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

It reads 3.7 wide on that Warrior tire but it is 29". If it fits, a big If, could be a cool option. Maybe on a fat bike.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

TuTone T said:


> It reads 3.7 wide on that Warrior tire but it is 29". If it fits, a big If, could be a cool option. Maybe on a fat bike.


Oh, good catch. I don't think a 3.7 would fit the stock Krampus.


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

Magicscreen said:


> I've never heard of the Xtreme Warrior tire. Have you used them for snow?


 I am in the process of lacing up a wheelset that I plan on using for the Fat Tire Birkie.


TuTone T said:


> It reads 3.7 wide on that Warrior tire but it is 29". If it fits, a big If, could be a cool option. Maybe on a fat bike.


 The tire is the exact same 120tpi casing that Surly uses for the 29+ Knard but the tread is much more aggressive and spread out to 3.7" so that it can qualify and perform as a lightweight, low profile option for racing on sand and snow when mounted on an 80-100mm rim. I am thinking that on a 45-50mm rim ala Rabbit Hole, the tread will wrap all the way around the side of the casing making it a killer DH front tire. This weekend, I plan on mounting one on a 29+ bike and take some measurements just to see if the 7mm side knobs will clear the fork. I will post results with photos here.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

FatBike&SlenderWoman said:


> ... This weekend, I plan on mounting one on a 29+ bike and take some measurements just to see if the 7mm side knobs will clear the fork. I will post results with photos here.


That would be great to see. Thanks in advance if you can make that happen.


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## Marsukurac (Mar 10, 2013)

Need some advice on wheel selection for Trek Stache carbon 2017. Might be for wheelset forum but since 29+ specific I am asking here.
What do you think about american classic 29" Smokin' Gun BOOST. They are similar widths than Stache 9.8 stock Bontragers. Do I understand correctly that one can use both 2.25 and 3.0 tires with these. Would that make sense? (i.e. having one wheelset and swaping between 29 and 29+ tires on the Stache)


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## R-M-R (Jan 26, 2009)

Marsukurac said:


> Need some advice on wheel selection for Trek Stache carbon 2017. Might be for wheelset forum but since 29+ specific I am asking here.
> What do you think about american classic 29" Smokin' Gun BOOST. They are similar widths than Stache 9.8 stock Bontragers. Do I understand correctly that one can use both 2.25 and 3.0 tires with these. Would that make sense? (i.e. having one wheelset and swaping between 29 and 29+ tires on the Stache)


While you _can_ use almost any tire on almost any rim, it won't always be an optimal set-up.

This rim has an internal width of 40 mm. That's about the minimum for a 3" tire, but current skinny tires have too narrow a tread for this kind of width, resulting in flattened tread and highly exposed sidewalls. The best case scenario is that you'll wear through your 2.25" sidewalls quickly; the worst case scenarios are an immediate tear of the sidewall on a rock or leaning the bike beyond the lugs when turning, resulting in a lowside crash that feels like you hit a patch of ice.

I'm afraid there is no rim that will work well over such a range of tire widths. A cheap option could be to have two sets of tires: one that rolls quickly and one with great traction. It would be messy to change tires frequently, but it could save you a grand. Changing only the rear tire will give you most of the benefits with half the hassle, since most of the rolling resistance comes from the rear.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

LyNx said:


> From my experience with X-Fusion forks (Trace and Velvet), that is not going to be your problem, it will be the actual arch height that will most likely not allow a PLUS tyre to fit in there. You need to measure from your axle to top of arch and then ask or look around for those measurements for PLUS tyres.


A friend of mine gave me a set of 27tpi Knards to try out. I threw one on with a tube to see the situation and was surprised at what I found. It's not the arch, OR the crown that is the limiter.... they're too wide and rub the sides. The tire wobbles just a bit and they buzz even in the stand. If the tire were as true as the rim, I'd have about 2mm on each side. Not enough for trail use. 
There's actually plenty of room under the arch, and even just a whisker of clearance under the crown when fully bottomed. According to my stanchion o-ring that's more than I've used on my last 3-4 rides. I can't imagine bottoming my fork riding plus tires, it'd probably take a waist-height drop to flat, which I'm not a fan of on a HT.
Here's the fork totally collapsed:







just a fraction of clearance. 
Mounted with a tube in at about 18 psi, on i30 wheels, the Knards measure 2.77 at the casing, exactly 3.0 at the shoulder knobs. They're old, they've already stretched as far as they ever will. 
Just a bit wide, but I have a better idea of what might fit under that fork.
I really think anything that measures 2.8-ish will work nicely.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Magicscreen said:


> I love the Knards in dry, well-packed conditions -- dirt and rocks and everything in between. I even rode them today for 15 miles on relatively dry pavement. But slushy snow, or wet, slippery conditions... I'm just thinking there must be something better in 3.0.


I am in the same boat. Have the Knards on my Krampus, and love them exxcept for tryign to corner in the clay-like mud/ wet leaf bed (and what little snow) we get here in the winter in Central Ohio. I run them at about 17psi...is that the issue possibly? I feel like it is more the tread and the mud-shedding than the psi

Am looking for something that sheds the mud better. Right now, the Dirt Wizards look interesting, but does anyone else have any suggestions or experience in the same conditions? I am not racing by any stretch of the imagination...just regular single track at moderate speeds.

So my short list is :
Surly Dirt Wizards
Gravity Vidars
Maxxis Chronicle

good? Bad? others? I am intersted in those Xtreme Warriors as well, but they may be "more" than I need?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I am in the same boat. Have the Knards on my Krampus, and love them exxcept for tryign to corner in the clay-like mud/ wet leaf bed (and what little snow) we get here in the winter in Central Ohio. I run them at about 17psi...is that the issue possibly? I feel like it is more the tread and the mud-shedding than the psi
> 
> Am looking for something that sheds the mud better. Right now, the Dirt Wizards look interesting, but does anyone else have any suggestions or experience in the same conditions? I am not racing by any stretch of the imagination...just regular single track at moderate speeds.
> 
> ...


Are the Xtreme warriors a Tommy Coghill special? If so, steer clear, or at least do some research first.


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

ARandomBiker said:


> just a fraction of clearance.


A dremmel will fix that for you....


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I am in the same boat. Have the Knards on my Krampus, and love them exxcept for tryign to corner in the clay-like mud/ wet leaf bed (and what little snow) we get here in the winter in Central Ohio. I run them at about 17psi...is that the issue possibly? I feel like it is more the tread and the mud-shedding than the psi
> 
> Am looking for something that sheds the mud better. Right now, the Dirt Wizards look interesting, but does anyone else have any suggestions or experience in the same conditions? I am not racing by any stretch of the imagination...just regular single track at moderate speeds.
> 
> ...


Vidars

They should be all you need in central Ohio. I rode for 6 years in SW MI before moving to Oregon. I love the Vidars in Oregon in the muddy winter here. It would be all I run in MI if moved back there

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> A dremmel will fix that for you....


It's interesting you mention that. I thought about it all night, and this morning typed up a big 'what would you do' thread in the suspension subforum, but erased it because dremeling the 'sides' seemed even more ill-advised than the top. 
I assumed I'd get about 10 replies that say 'stop being lame and buy a boost fork and a new wheel". 
Incidentally, I took a pic of the side of the arch from the back:


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

clydeone said:


> Vidars
> 
> They should be all you need in central Ohio. I rode for 6 years in SW MI before moving to Oregon. I love the Vidars in Oregon in the muddy winter here. It would be all I run in MI if moved back there
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome. Thanks for the advice. I was looking at these hardcore, but most of the info/reviews I was finding was from 2015 and earlier. I didn't know if they still made them. I like what I see in the tread pattern and all.

Sort of off topic, but where is good to ride in SW Michigan? Always looking for more places to ride around here


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Sort of off topic, but where is good to ride in SW Michigan? Always looking for more places to ride around here


Check out http://mmba.org

Yankee springs and fort Custer are two that come to mind. Might be a little farther north than you're looking for.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Check out Michigan Mountain Biking Association
> 
> Yankee springs and fort Custer are two that come to mind. Might be a little farther north than you're looking for.


Well, my fiance is from Detroit, so we vacation in Michigan every summer. We are looking to head to Holland this summer, so some of those places might be on the radar. I will check them out...


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Well, my fiance is from Detroit, so we vacation in Michigan every summer. We are looking to head to Holland this summer, so some of those places might be on the radar. I will check them out...


Andrews university is nice but it is a long drive from Holland. Custer is closer. Yankee can be a sandpit in the summer it is nicer with some moisture in the ground.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Sort of off topic, but where is good to ride in SW Michigan? Always looking for more places to ride around here


We were at Yankee two weekends ago and it was fantastic. Really amazing. Though I was riding fat, and not the Krampus. The deeper new snow would have been pretty tricky on the 3.0 Knard. It's a fantastic spot to ride all year-round.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

clydeone said:


> Andrews university is nice but it is a long drive from Holland. Custer is closer. Yankee can be a sandpit in the summer it is nicer with some moisture in the ground.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Magicscreen said:


> We were at Yankee two weekends ago and it was fantastic. Really amazing. Though I was riding fat, and not the Krampus. The deeper new snow would have been pretty tricky on the 3.0 Knard. It's a fantastic spot to ride all year-round.


Cool guys. I am adding these to my searches tonight. Found some other good options on the mmba site as well. The trick is finding stuff that we can both ride. She is easing back in to it after a pretty big spill last summer. I don't mind going less techy to get her back on it so some of the more flowy and beginner type trails are fine. I know there will be a day where she will want to shop, and I will hit some stuff I want to do.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Cool guys. I am adding these to my searches tonight. Found some other good options on the mmba site as well. The trick is finding stuff that we can both ride. She is easing back in to it after a pretty big spill last summer. I don't mind going less techy to get her back on it so some of the more flowy and beginner type trails are fine. I know there will be a day where she will want to shop, and I will hit some stuff I want to do.


The front loop at Yankee is pretty tame, but still really fun and flowy. The back loop has more technical stuff and some lung-burner climbs (for the midwest), but still not terribly treacherous.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got a set of Dirt Wizards 29+, 120tpi, buy one and get the second free; free one has a patched hole.

Make an offer by PM.

>80% tread remaining.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I have tried to parse through here to see but don't see a specific listing... I have a HighTower with a Pike Boost on the front and want to get a 29x3.0 to play around with on the front (max'd out the rear with a 29x2.6 Nobby Nik). Am I safe with pretty much any 29x3.0? The dealer who sold me the fork called it a 27.5+/29+ fork, but I have heard tell of people with Boost Pike's not having adequate clearance on top for some 29+ tires. Since I wasted some time and money finding the largest tire for the back, hoping to cut down on both in my search for a bigger tire for the front.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

The Pike comes in a 27.5+/29 OR a dedicated 29+(which doesn't seem to be available aftermarket yet). 27.5+/29 does NOT fit 29x3.0...I don't know how big you could go...


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Look at the Nobby Nic 2.6 here- http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/nobby-nic-29x2-60-a-1020942.html

Gotta but it from euro site for time being but will clear that Pike.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Did you not read his post? He already has 29"x2.6" NN, so one would likely assume he already tried it in the Pike and determined he had room for a bigger tyre, hence the question about a 3" tyre :skep:


SVO said:


> Look at the Nobby Nic 2.6 here- http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/nobby-nic-29x2-60-a-1020942.html
> 
> Gotta but it from euro site for time being but will clear that Pike.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

SVO said:


> Look at the Nobby Nic 2.6 here- http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/nobby-nic-29x2-60-a-1020942.html
> 
> Gotta but it from euro site for time being but will clear that Pike.


 Oh I already have one of those and the pike I have both clear something significantly larger than that. It's actually smaller than a trail king 2.4. The knobby Nick is what I have on the back of my high tower, and I would say based on mounting the larger Trail King on the front w my pike that a 29 x 2.8 which fit easily. So I guess I'll just do what I did for the back and buy a few tires and see if anything happens to fit The pike. I'm guessing there will be some variability depending on rim web and size of the tires


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Did you not read his post? He already has 29"x2.6" NN, so one would likely assume he already tried it in the Pike and determined he had room for a bigger tyre, hence the question about a 3" tyre :skep:


Sorry to offend- just reading too fast. Thought it is common knowledge that forks not rated for 29+ (All existing?) don't fit true 3.0. Kindly smooth out panties.


----------



## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

they can if you're willing to limit their travel (at both ends) 
XF mcqueen does, anyway


----------



## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

Xtreme Warrior 80mm wide at outer tread on a 622 x 29.5mm Velocity Blunt rim.
(Click on photos for larger image)


----------



## joecx (Aug 17, 2013)

backinmysaddle said:


> Oh I already have one of those and the pike I have both clear something significantly larger than that. It's actually smaller than a trail king 2.4. The knobby Nick is what I have on the back of my high tower, and I would say based on mounting the larger Trail King on the front w my pike that a 29 x 2.8 which fit easily. So I guess I'll just do what I did for the back and buy a few tires and see if anything happens to fit The pike. I'm guessing there will be some variability depending on rim web and size of the tires


A Vittoria Bombolini will fit under a Pike with around 6 mm clearance.I did try a WTB Ranger and it would buff out the finish under the arch at high speed from the centrifugal force causing expansion.

This is on a 30mm internal rim @ 14-16 psi.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

FatBike&SlenderWoman said:


> Xtreme Warrior 80mm wide at outer tread on a 622 x 29.5mm Velocity Blunt rim.
> (Click on photos for larger image)
> 
> View attachment 1120731
> View attachment 1120732


Looks like a rebadged Innova Gravity Vidar. I'd just as soon buy somewhere else and not throw any money at Tommy what's his name.

It's a good tire that I use quite a bit.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

joecx said:


> A Vittoria Bombolini will fit under a Pike with around 6 mm clearance.I did try a WTB Ranger and it would buff out the finish under the arch at high speed from the centrifugal force causing expansion.
> 
> This is on a 30mm internal rim @ 14-16 psi.


Interesting that you mention 30mm internal, as I learned when figuring out what would fit on the rear of the Hightower it mattered a ton. 5-10mm seemed to significantly change the profile of the tire. I have 35mm internal which seems to square the tire out more than a narrower rim. Will have to do some experimenting, I will get something up there to work ;-)


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## tims5377 (Oct 20, 2010)

Just going to leave this here... If it's not allowed yell and I will delete...

I am having a 29+ rabbit hole wheelset built currently. I am looking to sample a few tires without paying a hundo for each. So I am looking for your used tires (still in decent condition). PM me with what you have please!


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

tfinator said:


> Looks like a rebadged Innova Gravity Vidar. ..


Innova is the OEM for the Warrior and the tread looks very similar to the Gravity Vidar only on an 8mm wider casing. Good eye!
The Warrior casing looks and measures identical to the 120 tpi Knard.
I have four Warriors that weighed in at 1090g ±10g which is 85-150g heavier than both of the other tires mentioned.
I have been told that there is a studded version of the Warrior and the next batch will be shipping with a more aggressive, 3.8" wide tread to improve snow performance and qualify for the Fat Bike Nationals.
They already qualify and will be running on at least two bikes at this years Birkie.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Where are you guys getting the Warrior tires? Also Does anyone have a source for any other Innova tires? I know Universal has the Transformer but this is all i can find


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Jefflinde said:


> Where are you guys getting the Warrior tires? Also Does anyone have a source for any other Innova tires? I know Universal has the Transformer but this is all i can find


I got mine from universal too. I'm not convinced they're different from the 'warriors'.


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## telejefe (Mar 28, 2007)

Bomboloni Data Point 

On i23 rims 67 mm casing and 72 mm tread. This was after 6 months riding. I also ran at 18 psi as front tire with zero issues. Very round, but felt great.

On i35 rims it is about 73 mm casing and 74 mm tread. Still round. This is a new tire, so will stretch another 1 mm based on last bomboloni experience. I am running this at 15 psi, and it is still plenty round. Diameter is about 752 mm, but that measurement is a little difficult.


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm looking for a plus fork to accommodate a 3.0 preferably the chupacabra. Are you saying the pike rct3 27+|29 will not work? If not what fork would you recommend?


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Slow poke said:


> I'm looking for a plus fork to accommodate a 3.0 preferably the chupacabra. Are you saying the pike rct3 27+|29 will not work? If not what fork would you recommend?


That fork won't work. I use a Fox 34 27.5+ boost fork with a 29 x 3 Chupacabra on a 36mm internal rim. If you want a Pike it needs to be a 29+ Pike.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Is there a database of 29+ tires like the one for 29er tires that has weight, width etc? I may need something a little smaller than the Chupacabra for my new frame.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Captain_America1976 said:


> Is there a database of 29+ tires like the one for 29er tires that has weight, width etc? I may need something a little smaller than the Chupacabra for my new frame.


This is the best listing I've found https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...-HqcIeGr34k_xocAzU/edit#gid=437217495&vpid=A1


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

Captain_America1976 said:


> That fork won't work. I use a Fox 34 27.5+ boost fork with a 29 x 3 Chupacabra on a 36mm internal rim. If you want a Pike it needs to be a 29+ Pike.


Yeah trying to find a fork now, either fox 34 or pike. Someone bought up all the good deals on eBay ?

Anyone know of a good deal anywhere in forks?


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

AlexCuse said:


> This is the best listing I've found https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...-HqcIeGr34k_xocAzU/edit#gid=437217495&vpid=A1


Thanks!


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

hi everyone
im Makkot from Italy
new to this forum but old member of italian MTB forum.
Want to share a list of 29+ tyres wich i made for the italian friends.

https://www.mtb-mag.com/forum/threads/29plus-foto-esperienze-novità.334289/

*
*
SURLY (Knard, Dirt Wizard)













BONTRAGER (Chupacabra)













MAXXIS CHRONICLE











MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS











MAXXIS MINION DHR II PLUS











VITTORIA (Bomboloni)













VITTORIA (Cannoli)











PANARACER (B-nimble)











VEE TIRE(T-fatty)











VEE TIRE(Bulldozer)











VEE TIRE(Speedster)











CHAOYANG (BigDaddy)

















27.5/29
1.9-2.4


27.5/29
2.4, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8


26 Fat
3.8-5.0


26+
2.75/3.0


*29+*
*2.8-3.0-3.25*


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

FYI to anyone considering the Panaracer 29x3: 

I just mounted one to my i18 rim. Weight is 752g. Tubeless setup was easy, though I did need sealant to fill a small bead leak. New, at 40 PSI, they measure 2.35" wide at the casing and 2.47" wide at the treads. They fit in the back of my '15 Scalpel with at least 1/5" to spare. 

I'll do measurements again when they've had time to expand, and then later on an i29 rim when I'm done building it. They're noticeably larger than the 2.35" Forekaster and 2.35" Ardent Race that preceded them, but probably within bounds for most 29er frames. If they have any durability at all, I'd consider them a deal at $50.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

makkot said:


> hi everyone
> im Makkot from Italy
> new to this forum but old member of italian MTB forum.
> Want to share a list of 29+ tyres wich i made for the italian friends.


Thank you for the list (pictures are all broken here, probably a hot-link protection of the original site).

BTW, as you in Europe, do you know any online shop that sells MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS?


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

ya29er said:


> Thank you for the list (pictures are all broken here, probably a hot-link protection of the original site).
> 
> BTW, as you in Europe, do you know any online shop that sells MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS?


welcome, yes on the original italian forum maximum image size is bigger...so here they have been resized by the system.

yes....MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS in europe:
https://www.pro-mstore.com/gomma-maxxis-minion-dhf-plus-tr-exo-29x300-k-60tpi-33900787


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

makkot said:


> welcome, yes on the original italian forum maximum image size is bigger...so here they have been resized by the system.
> 
> yes....MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS in europe:
> https://www.pro-mstore.com/gomma-maxxis-minion-dhf-plus-tr-exo-29x300-k-60tpi-33900787


Seems to be Italy only. The checkout page doesn't even an option for shipping outside of Italy.


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

ya29er said:


> Seems to be Italy only. The checkout page doesn't even an option for shipping outside of Italy.


There is a contact email at the bootom of the page, you could try to ask them about international shipping.

It seems maxxis is not distributing it very well across old poor Europe.....


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

ya29er said:


> Thank you for the list (pictures are all broken here, probably a hot-link protection of the original site).
> 
> BTW, as you in Europe, do you know any online shop that sells MAXXIS MINION DHF PLUS?


https://www.alltricks.com/C-40597-29


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

How did you like that Panaracer B nimble 29x3 tire? I'm looking for a narrower tire 29x3 that is decent to use. Is it tubeless ready?



alexdi said:


> FYI to anyone considering the Panaracer 29x3:
> 
> I just mounted one to my i18 rim. Weight is 752g. Tubeless setup was easy, though I did need sealant to fill a small bead leak. New, at 40 PSI, they measure 2.35" wide at the casing and 2.47" wide at the treads. They fit in the back of my '15 Scalpel with at least 1/5" to spare.
> 
> I'll do measurements again when they've had time to expand, and then later on an i29 rim when I'm done building it. They're noticeably larger than the 2.35" Forekaster and 2.35" Ardent Race that preceded them, but probably within bounds for most 29er frames. If they have any durability at all, I'd consider them a deal at $50.


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

Due to a lack of cash and a generous gift I currently have 3 29+ tires available to me to use on my Gnarvester.

1 New Cubacubra (sp?)
1 slightly used Chronicle
1 well used but still good Knard.

Question is what combo of these should i use for a general trail riding week away I have planned next week. Climbing and moderately technical descending. Have been using Chronicle front and Knard rear but have had some of the steering issues some people have mentioned so looking to change. I assume I will go Chub F and Knard R but happy for other suggestions. Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

There is a new Cubacubra? Or just an unused one?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I hated the Knard for everything except gravel roads. It rolls really well, but doesn't grip and despite multiple layers of tape to make a 'bead lock' on both carbon rims and Velocity Dually rims I still found streaks of sealant from the bead up the sidewall where it 'micro-burped'. I rode them for a while because they were free to me while I tried plus. 
I ride Chronicles F/R and only encounter steering issues when the psi is too low.

Given your choices I'd do Chupa front, Chronicle rear.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

To me it would depend on what conditions you are riding on. If it's dry, I think the Knard in front and either of the other two in back would be great. If it's muddy or very wet (or worse yet, snowy) where you are, I'd put the other two on, in either combination, and leave the Knard in the car as a spare. I really like the low
rolling resistance of the Knard, but it's crap in the wet, as the tread is too shallow to hold in snow or mud very effectively. Have fun!


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback. It is a brand new Chupa from lbs a few weeks ago Boblike. 

The trail is a mixture of rough abs smooth single track with about 1200m of climbing and lots more descending (shuttle back up). Epic trail at Buller in Australia.

Think I will try Chupa/Chronicle for now and take knard as a spare. 

Thanks


Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

alexdi said:


> FYI to anyone considering the Panaracer 29x3:
> 
> I just mounted one to my i18 rim. Weight is 752g. Tubeless setup was easy, though I did need sealant to fill a small bead leak. New, at 40 PSI, they measure 2.35" wide at the casing and 2.47" wide at the treads. They fit in the back of my '15 Scalpel with at least 1/5" to spare.
> 
> I'll do measurements again when they've had time to expand, and then later on an i29 rim when I'm done building it. They're noticeably larger than the 2.35" Forekaster and 2.35" Ardent Race that preceded them, but probably within bounds for most 29er frames. If they have any durability at all, I'd consider them a deal at $50.


I'm definitely interested in this. If you have a way to measure from the axle to the widest point on the tire that works be extremely helpful. It sounds like the knobs are the widest, but I'm wondering how far down the chain stay and seat stay they'll hit.
Thanks for all the info!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ a 3" tire on a 18mm internal rim? am i reading that correctly?!?!


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Yeah, except the FBN is closer to a legit 2.65" tire extrapolating from the B2B measurement. I mounted it to see if it'd fit the Scalpel, then broke my collarbone on a different bike. Now I've got a pile of wheel parts I can't assemble, so it'll be a bit until I can say anything authoritative about width on the i29 rim. 

It's 14.5" from the axle to the start of the tread, which is also the widest point. I'd expect 14.7" on a wider rim.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

On arc 35 I'm getting 13.5" on the sidewall and 14" at the tread. Both are 2.5" wide.


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

Shown, among other options, at the Taipei show. Expected to fit in many standard 29" forks and rear triangles. Availability in the US expected for July, did not state other regions.


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

@billj121
a 2.6 tyre posted in a 29+ thread ?


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

makkot said:


> @billj121
> a 2.6 tyre posted in a 29+ thread ?


I was thinking the same thing. Let us know when a 29x2.8 comes out at least. Hopefully you saw one there.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

over 29" diameter is plus


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

makkot said:


> @billj121
> a 2.6 tyre posted in a 29+ thread ?


Yes, @makkot

27 pages worth of discussion on the topic here in this thread so far alone, a lot of which consists of people looking for options to go bigger than what has traditionally been offered in 29, but unable to do so based on existing fork and bike limitations.
I pulled this picture from Maxxis, not my own, but this appears to be a tire being built much more closely aligned with the current + tire trend rather than just building something burlier than a 2.5 Minion.
For those with existing 29er forks (maybe even non Boost.... gasp.... :eekster: ) I see this as a possible great transition to + benefits. Who knows, maybe this is the Ideal + size for some?

@Slowpoke
Looks like Maxxis is not alone in looking to fill the 29 x 2.6 to 2.8 market out there. Have seen posts from Specialized riders also mentioning testing purgatory and butcher tires in these same sizes.

I think they'll sell a ton of these things once they're out. Maybe because they will be great and maybe because I'll rip a lot of sidewalls on them, who knows? :thumbsup:

They seem to be trying to open a segment with these sizes, calling them WT (Wide Trail) Maybe we can see if they will build a 2.75 and call it a WT+ 

We all know we need another standard, maybe they can build a mid boost hub spacing to go along with it.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'm looking forward to the release of what Maxxis are calling their Wide Trail tyres which fit between normal and Plus, but agree with the poster that there's loads looking to fit something a bit bigger than the avg tyre, but can't fit a true Plus tyre.


billj121 said:


> Shown, among other options, at the Taipei show. Expected to fit in many standard 29" forks and rear triangles. Availability in the US expected for July, did not state other regions.


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

billj121 said:


> Yes, @makkot
> 
> @Slowpoke
> Looks like Maxxis is not alone in looking to fill the 29 x 2.6 to 2.8 market out there. Have seen posts from Specialized riders also mentioning testing purgatory and butcher tires in these same sizes.
> ...


just giving you a hard time- thanks for the post. I would love a 2.8 even a 2.75 as the my back tire rubs a little on my FS. I am not as experienced rider as you guys so i need all the help i can get and the plus tire definitely help with confidence and performance for me.


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

@billj121
im quiete a simple man, if a topic has a title I expect to read about that.
Im not moving critics against you, i just say that all the sizes being not truly 29+ should be discussed in a dedicated topic, for the sake of the users.

Theres is lot of confusion about the new formats popping up and it could be useful to open new topics about them in order to get maximum results in terms of thread's quality.

This is how the tyres size are intended nowadays by manufacturers:


27.5/29
1.9-2.4

27.5/29 NEW 2017 MIDDLE SIZE FORMAT
2.4, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8

26 Fat
3.8-5.0

26+
2.75/3.0

29+
2.8-3.0-3.25


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I'd punch a sick baby in the face for a 29x2.8 ikon. make it so, maxxis.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

and I want a 3.0 Aspen


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

makkot said:


> @billj121
> This is how the tyres size are intended nowadays by manufacturers:
> 27.5/29
> 1.9-2.4
> ...


Glad you have those categories all ironed out.

May have to agree to disagree some on this one. 
29 x 2.4's have been around for quite some time. Certainly not a new for 2017 size format.
By your scale, 29 x 2.8 fall into both 29+ and "Middle Size Format"? Don't see that creating any confusion out there at all....

I think I'll still call 29 x 2.6 a + tire and feel ok with myself about discussing it in threads like this one where people are looking for a range of 29+ options.


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

SLBikes said:


> I would to see a 29 x 3.5. Installed a 27.5 x 2.6 Rekon and was very underwhelmed. Basically the same size at the Hans Damf 2.35


Interesting @SLBikes, so in the case of the Recon, a 2.8 might be a real 2.6 mounted and measured. I'd go for that in 29 and hopefully it would fit in most existing 29 forks! :thumbsup:


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

@billj121 
its not my own bible. its a list made from a collection of articles from dedicated bike magazines.
For sure far less confusing than posting a 29x2.6 tyre in a 29+ thread.
Im not sure you will understand by yourself the difference, but its not my problem.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

up until boost came along, with very few exceptions, 2.4" was the largest 'standard' tire.

2.5, 2.6, 2.75, and 2.8 are all considered + tires by many folks. I think getting feisty over someone talking about 2.6" tires in this thread is being silly. + tires are bigger than normal. 2.4" is the largest 'standard' tire for several years now, so a 2.6" tire would be considered +, especially since there is no official standard


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

@sgtrobo
trust me, i dont care that much. I just learned to read many years ago and im not old enough to forget what i read.
It looks like different for some other.


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## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

Chippertheripper said:


> I'd punch a sick baby in the face for a...


Classy!


----------



## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

Current ride is a 2016 Trek Stache 5, rigid carbon fork, 29+, full XTR upgrades. I have also owned bikes w/26 regular, 29 regular (2.1, 2.2), and 26 Fat. 

I have long thought 29s in the range of 2.6-2.8 would be ideal for my uses. The WT/wide trail tires look interesting. 

Car tires run the gamut of every conceivable diameter, width, and aspect ratio. I look forward to 29s in so-called WT sizes. I would prefer a separate fixed WT thread, but I am not against editing the title of this thread and discussing them here.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

its 2.8 and or 3.0 tomahawks we need in 27.5 and 29.... well, in my dreams it is...


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

ro7939 said:


> Classy!


Lulz.

When you know you want anything really badly. It's an old inside joke, some people get tore up over it, some can appreciate the classless humor.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

Plus size tire fetish, never ending search for goldilocks ....
- 29 3.25 vee bulldozer - looking for review
- 29 3.0 maxxis DHF / DHR II - looking for review

current report
- 29 3.0 innova transformers, good 3" ~950grm 
- WTB ranger light , ~900grm, decent summer, light sidewalls, not for new england , front only
- ver 27.5 3.25 trax fatty, is a different beast, wider spaced knobs, beefier tread, bigger than 3.0, running in the rear, had them studded up with rivets too. decent rear tire
- vee 27.5 bulldozer 3.0 , decent tire, not huge, what means it fit on tighter frames, decent sidewalls, run in the rear
- Vee 27.5 3.0 crown gem, with synthesis sidewalls, not yet mounted, still have studded tires on. - super exited to ride this, stiff sidewalls, moto style treat , big bead to bead, should come in 3.20" 
- WTB 29 3.0 ranger tough, measured next to maxis DHF , booth same weight ~1140grm , the WTB tough has a stiff sidewall , probably good enough for rear tire, to last 3 month, just need something beefier in new england for the front.
of forgot , it's crazy Rob, riding a mixer 29+ front , 27.5+ rear, slim clydesdale 200lbs ,
stomper, New England rock gardens, 
next on the menu 
29 3.25 bulldozer / maxis DHF 29 3.0 for front. just don't like the minion in front , on/off cornering dead spot , wish for regular knobby dirt bike tire in front, but in plus, not a skinny nobby-nic in 2.6
for rear would love to test the maxis 27.5 3.0 highroller


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## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

IMO my new Bomboloni 29 x 3.0 outperforms the Chupacabra it replaced on the rear of my 2016 Trek Stache 5, HT, alloy, carbon fork, TL upgrade, all XTR upgrade. The Bombo is more comfortable and grips at least as well.


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I've just got hold of a Duro Crux 3.25" - waiting for a new wheel now!

Jeff Jones has them in stock.


----------



## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

ro7939 said:


> IMO my new Bomboloni 29 x 3.0 outperforms the Chupacabra it replaced on the rear of my 2016 Trek Stache 5, HT, alloy, carbon fork, TL upgrade, all XTR upgrade. The Bombo is more comfortable and grips at least as well.


Interesting, I have been on Bombolonis for a while now, and was always curious how they compared to Chupacabras.

Only thing negative I have to say about Bombolonis F/R is they don't have the volume of the Knards they replaced. They measure out to be ~2.9 on 40mm inner width rims.


----------



## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

croatiansensation said:


> Interesting, I have been on Bombolonis for a while now, and was always curious how they compared to Chupacabras.
> 
> Only thing negative I have to say about Bombolonis F/R is they don't have the volume of the Knards they replaced. They measure out to be ~2.9 on 40mm inner width rims.


Ditto, yes, they are a bit smaller than the Chupacabras too. Much lower street cost than Chupacabra. I dig the Bombos. Till recently I kept wanting to call them Bombolino.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

croatiansensation said:


> Interesting, I have been on Bombolonis for a while now, and was always curious how they compared to Chupacabras.
> 
> Only thing negative I have to say about Bombolonis F/R is they don't have the volume of the Knards they replaced. They measure out to be ~2.9 on 40mm inner width rims.


To be fair, not much compares to a Knard in volume. Mine measured like 3.11 on i30s. Pushing 3.2 on i39 Duallys. It's (IMO) about the only thing it has going for it for trail use. They're great gravel tires, but slippery on singletrack.

Several guys I know ride Bombolonis and like them, but I agree with the negative point regarding volume. I know 2.9 v 3.0 is a little pedantic, but I want max volume. My Chronicles are a solid 3.0, even when I ran them on i30's, and I'm told that Chupas are a full 3.0 as well. 
I'd run a 3.25 if I could. The Duro Crux is the only one I know of, and it's always sold out.
Edit: also the Vee Bulldozer 29x3.25, but no one seems to have any real opinion of those yet.


----------



## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

*Plus Scalpel preview*









Put a new set of shoes on the Scalpel. This rim is i39. The WTB Ranger 3.0 has been at about 40 PSI for a day. It's 2.85" between the walls and 2.95" between the treads.


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

What tire did you run in the back of your scalpel? Did a 3.0 trail blazer fit back there? Are these 27.5 or 29


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Jefflinde said:


> What tire did you run in the back of your scalpel? Did a 3.0 trail blazer fit back there? Are these 27.5 or 29


Considering this thread is titled: "29+ tires choices", I'm thinking it's a 29+ tire. And the Trail Blazer only comes in 27.5x2.8 size. Maybe you meant to say Ranger?


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ARandomBiker said:


> To be fair, not much compares to a Knard in volume. Mine measured like 3.11 on i30s. Pushing 3.2 on i39 Duallys. It's (IMO) about the only thing it has going for it for trail use. They're great gravel tires, but slippery on singletrack.
> 
> Several guys I know ride Bombolonis and like them, but I agree with the negative point regarding volume. I know 2.9 v 3.0 is a little pedantic, but I want max volume. My Chronicles are a solid 3.0, even when I ran them on i30's, and I'm told that Chupas are a full 3.0 as well.
> I'd run a 3.25 if I could. The Duro Crux is the only one I know of, and it's always sold out.
> Edit: also the Vee Bulldozer 29x3.25, but no one seems to have any real opinion of those yet.


The Duro Crux and Vee Bulldozer are the only 29x3.25 tires available. They are both in stock here: Store - Wheels and Wheel Parts - Page 1 - Jones Bikes

I've been riding the 27.5 version of the Crux for 2 years or so and really like them. I recently got a couple of the 29 Crux, and mounted one on the front of my rigid Waltworks. No ride time yet, but it's a beast!


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

bikeny said:


> The Duro Crux and Vee Bulldozer are the only 29x3.25 tires available. They are both in stock here: Store - Wheels and Wheel Parts - Page 1 - Jones Bikes
> 
> I've been riding the 27.5 version of the Crux for 2 years or so and really like them. I recently got a couple of the 29 Crux, and mounted one on the front of my rigid Waltworks. No ride time yet, but it's a beast!


bikeny, are you running the Crux tubeless? Have been kicking around getting a 29 x 3.25 tire, but want to ensure it is true to size and reasonably reliable tubeless.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

croatiansensation said:


> bikeny, are you running the Crux tubeless? Have been kicking around getting a 29 x 3.25 tire, but want to ensure it is true to size and reasonably reliable tubeless.


Yup, I've been running them tubeless since new, on Nextie carbon and WTB I35 rims, no issues to report. I actually thought they were tubeless ready, but according to the Jones site they are not. They are indeed big tires, bigger than any 3.0 tires out there. I'm thinking of picking up a 3.25 Bulldozer for the back to pair with the Crux in front.

Long shoot: Anyone want to trade my 3.25 Crux for your 3.25 Bulldozer?


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I assumed 29+ but I am not sure how they would fit in both the rear triangle and under the fork under full compression. I have a scalpel as well and would love to know what they did to make it work. Yeah, brain fart on the trail blazer, I meant ranger.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

I have my lefty set at 140mm and three bottom out spacers. With a panaracer 29x3.0 there's a half inch space fully compressed at the crown


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> I assumed 29+ but I am not sure how they would fit in both the rear triangle and under the fork under full compression. I have a scalpel as well and would love to know what they did to make it work. Yeah, brain fart on the trail blazer, I meant ranger.


The back definitely doesn't fit a true 29+, but it does appear to fit the 2.6ish Panaracer FBN 3.0. I only tested a skinny rim though, I need to try it on the new, wider rim I just assembled. If it doesn't fit, I'll just use a big 2.4. I don't actually mind the smaller wheel in the back; it weighs less, slacks the 71D head angle by about a degree, and preserves a front-biased traction balance. I'll post photos in a day or two.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

OK, so-- 

On the i29 rim at 30 PSI, the FBN is 2.55" across at the casing and 2.575" at the tread. On the Scalpel, it has 1/8" clearance to the front and side of the bottom stay, and 1/3" clearance from the seat tube when the suspension is fully compressed.

So it fits. Barely. For mostly dry terrain. It'll be awhile before I can take it out to see if it starts rubbing the stays in turns. The carbon rim is very stiff and 32H, but I used skinny Laser spokes, so who knows. Still, I'm encouraged. Balances the big Ranger up front nicely.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

alexdi said:


> OK, so--
> 
> On the i29 rim at 30 PSI, the FBN is 2.55" across at the casing and 2.575" at the tread. On the Scalpel, it has 1/8" clearance to the front and side of the bottom stay, and 1/3" clearance from the seat tube when the suspension is fully compressed.
> 
> So it fits. Barely. For mostly dry terrain. It'll be awhile before I can take it out to see if it starts rubbing the stays in turns. The carbon rim is very stiff and 32H, but I used skinny Laser spokes, so who knows. Still, I'm encouraged. Balances the big Ranger up front nicely.


That's good info, thank you. Let us know if it stretches appreciably. This would be an interesting plus minus set up with the FBN out back and a 2.6 nobby nic in front on 35i rims.


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I've finally managed to take my Duro Crux 29x3.25 for a spin, wow - I really like it! I'm running it on the front of a Ti Jones Spaceframe - with a 2.4 in the rear. I'm now very curious to try a full 29+ bike - it could be n+1 time 

A little disappointed in the size though, measures 77mm on a Rabbit Hole, with tubes.


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## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

alexdi said:


> View attachment 1129299
> 
> 
> Put a new set of shoes on the Scalpel. This rim is i39. The WTB Ranger 3.0 has been at about 40 PSI for a day. It's 2.85" between the walls and 2.95" between the treads.


OMG that looks beeAHTCH'n! I was interested in Canondale's 2017 Beast Of The East (Lefty HT Plus) till I learned it lacks ground clearance and has heavy wheels.

Owned about 70 motorcycles and used to race. Your Canondale "Lefty Plus" reminds me of the single-sided swing arm on several motorcycles: late 80s Honda Hawk GT (NT650), mid-90s Ducati 916 Superbike, early 90s Honda VFR750F Interceptor, and early 00s Honda VFR800F Interceptor (FI). I owned the last two bikes.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

been riding the bulldozer on the front of my stache for a few months now and i really dig it.

it is a large tire; bigger in size and volume than the chupacabra but not by much. I had one aired up next to a dhf3.0 and it was noticeably wider but a touch shorter.

it has a nice thick burly casing. i can run this tire at lower pressures than the chupacabra it replaced.

The tread pattern has some aggressive but tightly spaced knobs. They corner amazingly and grip tenaciously (only tried up front). 

I have a brand new dhf i am waiting to put on the front of my bike (a tire i know i will love); however i can't get myself to take this plump little number off. it does everything i want in a front tire. the extra volume and thick casing that allow me to run silly low pressures i don't want to give up.

it is a pretty heavy tire. i don't think i'd go for it in back ; but up front it smooths my rigid ride tremendously and i have grown to love it's outrageous traction and cornering bite. this tire is a winner for me for sure! good tire for those who are willing to add a little extra weight for a really solid tire.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

max-a-mill said:


> been riding the bulldozer on the front of my stache for a few months now and i really dig it.
> 
> it is a large tire; bigger in size and volume than the chupacabra but not by much. I had one aired up next to a dhf3.0 and it was noticeably wider but a touch shorter.
> 
> ...


What width did it measure out to? 3.1?


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

i just go by eyeballin. it is a slightly bigger tire in volume than my chupacabra or minion. That said my minion has only has a day or two on the trail so it may not be stretched to full size yet.

just had it out in 20 miles of rock filled singletrack yesterday and it could not have been better. the name bulldozer fits the tire really well.

i am gonna argue this is one of the best front tires out for a 29+ rigid bike if you're a bigger fella and/or really like to plow through rocks. The tough casing and big volume are a real winner in my book.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

terrene has a new 29+ tire 
https://www.facebook.com/terrenetir...8237888007471/801196206711637/?type=3&theater


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Any recommendations on a 29+ with a burlier sidewall? Been running the EXO Chronicles tubeless and I'm not loving them. Not super concerned about grams, just want a tire I can trust for off-road touring that doesn't need to be tweaked on a daily basis.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

MrkT said:


> Any recommendations on a 29+ with a burlier sidewall? Been running the EXO Chronicles tubeless and I'm not loving them. Not super concerned about grams, just want a tire I can trust for off-road touring that doesn't need to be tweaked on a daily basis.


I'd suggest trying the Bomboloni. Pretty thick sidewalks and I prefer it to the Chron. Personally, in less than super rocky terrain, I'm just packing a truck tube patch kit on multi day trips and not worrying about cuts.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

MrkT said:


> Any recommendations on a 29+ with a burlier sidewall? Been running the EXO Chronicles tubeless and I'm not loving them. Not super concerned about grams, just want a tire I can trust for off-road touring that doesn't need to be tweaked on a daily basis.


Curious, what aren't you loving? Are you tearing sidewalls? Don't like the tread? Durability?

I rode EXO Chronicles 1600 miles on the Baja Divide and liked them. Not so much as a nick on the sidewalls, and still lots of tread left. Seated tubeless easy, too. I was the envy of all the riders w/ me on Knards and WTB Rangers.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

InertiaMan said:


> Curious, what aren't you loving? Are you tearing sidewalls? Don't like the tread? Durability?
> 
> I rode EXO Chronicles 1600 miles on the Baja Divide and liked them. Not so much as a nick on the sidewalls, and still lots of tread left. Seated tubeless easy, too. I was the envy of all the riders w/ me on Knards and WTB Rangers.


Now I'm curious why the Rangers sucked. I'm liking them. Set up tubeless great, roll great, little to no self-steer, light. Cuts maybe? I am running a 35mm rim that leaves them less vulnerable. Only negative I have seen is wearing quickly.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

SVO said:


> Now I'm curious why the Rangers sucked. I'm liking them. Set up tubeless great, roll great, little to no self-steer, light. Cuts maybe? I am running a 35mm rim that leaves them less vulnerable. *Only negative I have seen is wearing quickly*.


Yep, it was the wear. The Rangers were pretty much shot after 1400 miles.

I do get some self-steer on the Chronicles. Haven't ridden enough other plus tires to have an informed opinion of how much the tread pattern is contributing vs casing size and PSI.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

well I can draw direct comparison between Bomboloni and Rangers (TCS Light) on Alex MD50 rims since I have both: the former installed MUCH easier
in order of increasing difficulty of installation (same rim, same tape): Bomboloni, DHF 3C 120TPI, Ranger TCS Light, 45Nrth Nicotine (ok, that one isn't even tubeless


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

+1 on Bomboloni tubeless seating. I used them on 32mm internal Nextie rims and they were a breeze to inflate w/ a floor pump.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

*McFly*

saw the new Terrene McFly yeteday at Sea Otter. Low profile knobby marked as 29 x 2.8". Come in both the tough and light casings too. Looking forward to trying these when they come out this summer. https://www.facebook.com/terrenetir...8237888007471/801196206711637/?type=3&theater

mike


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

InertiaMan said:


> Curious, what aren't you loving? Are you tearing sidewalls? Don't like the tread? Durability?
> 
> I rode EXO Chronicles 1600 miles on the Baja Divide and liked them. Not so much as a nick on the sidewalls, and still lots of tread left. Seated tubeless easy, too. I was the envy of all the riders w/ me on Knards and WTB Rangers.


Sidewall cuts, and I haven't even been riding crazy stuff. Also, I've found them to be really sketchy in wet and loose conditions. Just figured I'd give something else a try. To be clear, I don't hate the Chronicles, but I'm not feeling a ton of love either.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Right. They are pretty cheap tho which I think balances the wear life. My Chronicles were early non-EXO. Very flexy sidewalls but a pretty stiff tread base. If i used a low enough pressure to get good hook-up, there was too much side wobble on off-camber and fast downhill. No sweetspot. And some self-steer, although far from the worst. While the EXO version should have stiffer sides to improve things, all the models weigh the same so maybe not. Why I have not tried another. I am 200 lbs before gear which may be a factor. 

Anyone ridden both EXO and non-EXO Chronicles? Thoughts?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Maybe we have to start a mid plus/ plus minus 29 thread, but if anybody has info or ride reports coming on those new teravail 29x2.6 tires I'm all ears

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

SVO said:


> Right. They are pretty cheap tho which I think balances the wear life. My Chronicles were early non-EXO. Very flexy sidewalls but a pretty stiff tread base. If i used a low enough pressure to get good hook-up, there was too much side wobble on off-camber and fast downhill. No sweetspot. And some self-steer, although far from the worst. While the EXO version should have stiffer sides to improve things, all the models weigh the same so maybe not. Why I have not tried another. I am 200 lbs before gear which may be a factor.
> 
> Anyone ridden both EXO and non-EXO Chronicles? Thoughts?


I must have had the same Chronicles, for me at 210 or so, they were terrible in the speedy and tall berms and I had a couple of bad crashes from them more or less folding over and losing grip. I moved back to 29x2.6 and away from 27.5+ based on this experience. Have now started to get some new 27.5+ tires that seem a bit more beefy in the side wall but still gun shy about running fast into the berms!


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## jn24uk (Nov 26, 2015)

backinmysaddle said:


> I must have had the same Chronicles, for me at 210 or so, they were terrible in the speedy and tall berms and I had a couple of bad crashes from them more or less folding over and losing grip. I moved back to 29x2.6 and away from 27.5+ based on this experience. Have now started to get some new 27.5+ tires that seem a bit more beefy in the side wall but still gun shy about running fast into the berms!


What 29 x 2.6 tires are you running and on what width rims?


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

jn24uk said:


> What 29 x 2.6 tires are you running and on what width rims?


I just realized I was mixing and matching in this thread, referencing 27.5+ and 29, oops. The 29x2.6 are Nobby Nics and I mounted them on 35mm internal width rims. Wow, what a nice profile. I think that is really a nice width for this tire, although I think it makes the fit tough on many frames. It stands up pretty tall, so outside diameter is massive, I only have a few mm of space between the tire and the aluminum pivot on my Hightower that is in the bottom bracket area. I love the tire/rim combo.


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## jn24uk (Nov 26, 2015)

backinmysaddle said:


> I just realized I was mixing and matching in this thread, referencing 27.5+ and 29, oops. The 29x2.6 are Nobby Nics and I mounted them on 35mm internal width rims. Wow, what a nice profile. I think that is really a nice width for this tire, although I think it makes the fit tough on many frames. It stands up pretty tall, so outside diameter is massive, I only have a few mm of space between the tire and the aluminum pivot on my Hightower that is in the bottom bracket area. I love the tire/rim combo.


I was going to try the NN 29 x 2.6 on the Sun Ringle Duroc 50's, the factory rep said it would work.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

jn24uk said:


> I was going to try the NN 29 x 2.6 on the Sun Ringle Duroc 50's, the factory rep said it would work.


You can, but I think it starts to pull the sideward oriented knobs straight up. I have done some messing around, not this, but putting some 2.3s onto 35mm and I noticed I would lose the cornering knobs. Give it a try, I have seen some combinations that work, it is really specific to the tire what happens when you put it on a wider rim... I would say 35mm internal is the suite spot, so i have the Duroc 40s and they work great. This is a great bargain basement wheelset BTW.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

SLBikes said:


> I would to see a 29 x 3.5.


me three!


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

Spam, some good deals on new 29+ tires. More to come... spring cleaning time. If you are looking for anything 29" or 29+ ask I might have.

29", 29 tires for sale - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## Gaspar (May 5, 2017)

...


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

So what bike are you going to run them on, some kind of fat bike? Just a guess but maybe work on a Fox 27+ fork?


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

Has schwalbe released 2.6 Rocket Rons yet ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

For Sale: 
WTB Scraper i45 29er rims (2), built once, no damage.

Maxxis Minion DHF/DHF set of two, 29 x 3, fresh.

SOLD Surly Dirt Wizard 120 tpi, one pair, 29 x 3, one is patched, good condition otherwise.

Would prefer to sell everything as a package, not looking to get rich, just not planning to use them and want to move then on.

PM with questions and offers.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MrkT said:


> Any recommendations on a 29+ with a burlier sidewall? Been running the EXO Chronicles tubeless and I'm not loving them. Not super concerned about grams, just want a tire I can trust for off-road touring that doesn't need to be tweaked on a daily basis.


Minions or 72tpi Dirt Wizard.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

wanted 29+ 2.8 , or any skinny 3.0 
due frame clearance, need to be under 30" , ~760mm-
need , diameter / height measurements
riding 27.5+ in rear, an miss my 29+


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## kdiddy (Jul 14, 2005)

I have a pair of Unused, still in the package, Fat B Nimbles that fit that description. I think they measure 2.6 or 2.7 inches on a Dually rim.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thanks, but , had the Fat B Nimbles and, sidewalls are really flimsy, does not last 2 month in the rear, probably ones of the worst tires, at least for new england.
Schwalbe responded back, it's 29.25" tall, for the 2.6, so it's more like a little more volume then a 2.5, definitely not a real Plus size tire. 
did get to measure a vitorria tire, came to 29.75 tall, ~2.85, probably usable, not aggressive, and italian. anyway, this tread should stick to real Plus size tires.


kdiddy said:


> I have a pair of Unused, still in the package, Fat B Nimbles that fit that description. I think they measure 2.6 or 2.7 inches on a Dually rim.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

those Vittorias aren't made in Italy 
Thailand I think


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

bruto said:


> those Vittorias aren't made in Italy
> Thailand I think


While you're correct, that shouldn't be a detracting point. Lots of tires are made in Asia.
Maxxis tires are a sub-group of Cheng Shin, who makes probably 1/4 of the worlds tires. Every one of those tires is made in Asia.
Every Schwalbe tire is made in Indonesia, despite being a German company. 
Continental has factories all over the world, including Thailand.
Michelin is the same story.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Didn't mean to bash Vittoria, riding their tires myself
I'm just being nitpicky


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Does anyone know if Continental makes 29+ tires. I have had Trail Kings n my 26ers for a long time and really like them.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Does anyone know if Continental makes 29+ tires. I have had Trail Kings n my 26ers for a long time and really like them.


AFAIK, Continental hasn't announced any Plus tires in any rim size.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

InertiaMan said:


> AFAIK, Continental hasn't announced any Plus tires in any rim size.


hmmm...that sux. but thanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have a new frame coming, a Lenz Fatillac, designed to run 27+ to 27.5 x 4, but I'm hoping to run some 29ers to spice things up.

What plus tire has the greatest width relative to the sidewall? I would be happy with a 2.8, 2.6 is getting a bit skinny. 

I don't have any dimensions on th frame as it's in powder coating, but assume a 29 x 2.6 Rekon would fit.

I'm building new wheels, so I can also go with a fatter rim to spread things out; only wish those Minions would fit...


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## dirtbyte (Aug 23, 2011)

Chippertheripper said:


> I'd punch a sick baby in the face for a 29x2.8 ikon. make it so, maxxis.


I will punch it again when you get done. Where is my Ikon 29x2.8 EXO EXC EXX ELD EOD PWD SWX MaxxxSpeed MaxxSideWall SL v1.0? It is almost 2018 for crying out loud.


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

*Innova Pro Transformer*

If you haven't tried it, try it. You will probably be pleasantly surprised


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

fewg8 said:


> If you haven't tried it, try it. You will probably be pleasantly surprised


Agreed, the Innova Transformer is a great tire. It's price makes it an even more attractive!


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Isn't it rather small volume for a 3.0? (not always a bad thing, just getting objective info)

I want to say I read on elsewhere on this forum that it really measures like 2.75-2.8

I seem to remember considering it (and the FBN) early on because they were more likely to fit under my X-Fusion Slide.


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

After 1 ride on i40's, they're showing 2.88" casing/2.93" knob on my cheap calipers


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

fewg8 said:


> After 1 ride on i40's, they're showing 2.88" casing/2.93" knob on my cheap calipers


Where did you end up getting these from? Looking at these and I can find them a few places but just curious.

Thx


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## fewg8 (Oct 25, 2013)

Had LBS order from BTI


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

the innovas are the best bang for the buck 29+ tires; i have had 5 or 6 now and they all held up well! the casings are a great balance between light and durable and they have a decent tread pattern. But being a tire snow; to me, it just isn't QUITE as good as some others. When new, they do hook up really nice here in the mid-atlantic.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ARandomBiker said:


> Isn't it rather small volume for a 3.0? (not always a bad thing, just getting objective info)
> 
> I want to say I read on elsewhere on this forum that it really measures like 2.75-2.8
> 
> I seem to remember considering it (and the FBN) early on because they were more likely to fit under my X-Fusion Slide.


I haven't measured mine, but it looks about the same size as the Chuppacabra mounted on the rear of the same bike.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Jefflinde said:


> Where did you end up getting these from? Looking at these and I can find them a few places but just curious.
> 
> Thx


Universalcycles.com


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Guessing the outside diameter of the Innova is closer to that of the Knard, Chupa, and Chronicle from the pictures (vs the shorter diameter options like the DW and Bombi), correct?


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

deleted doublepost


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

again i have no measuring tools but to my eye the casing for the innova is slightly narrower than the chupacabras but seems just about as tall. so smaller; but just by a little bit.

it has been said that the knards are also by innova so chances would be good that it is the same casing? i dunno as i have never had a knard. mebbe someone who has had both could chime in to confirm or deny?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Nice, it's wider than I remember. Who's got a firsthand accurate weight? 

My Chronicles are no where near worn, and I found a ludicrous deal on a pair of Bombolonis, so those are on backup, but I always like to have a good idea what's out there.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I picked up a couple Minion DHRs for $28 each. I'm give em a try front n rear... 
should have a little more bite than the Chronicles I've had on there.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

reamer41 said:


> I picked up a couple Minion DHRs for $28 each. I'm give em a try front n rear...
> should have a little more bite than the Chronicles I've had on there.


If you can measure the tread width, casing width, and weight of these, I would love to know how they measure up to the other 29 plus tires I have data for already here:
Plus Bike Data: Real World Measurements - Ride Alongside


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> I picked up a couple Minion DHRs for $28 each. I'm give em a try front n rear...
> should have a little more bite than the Chronicles I've had on there.


Where did you find 29x3 Minion DHRs for $28?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

InertiaMan said:


> Where did you find 29x3 Minion DHRs for $28?


Niagra had them on blowout last week.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Got a quick ride today with the DHRs mounted front and rear. 
Climbing traction is definitely better! I didn't push the bike much in the corners so can't speak to cornering traction. The bike felt a bit slower in sand and ½" loose over hard. 

The bike felt better landing small jumps and drops. Same tire pressure (12psi). 

I'll measure the knobs and casing when the tires been mounted a for a bit.


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## TheArmand (Jul 6, 2011)

MrkT said:


> Sidewall cuts, and I haven't even been riding crazy stuff. Also, I've found them to be really sketchy in wet and loose conditions. Just figured I'd give something else a try. To be clear, I don't hate the Chronicles, but I'm not feeling a ton of love either.


If you have durability issues with Chronicles do NOT try Bomboloni's. I have extensive experience riding and bikepacking with both of them. My Bomboloni's hanging in my garage have 5 tubeless patches between both tires. So far just 1 on my Chronicles. Bombolonis are a WAY better performing rear tire than the Chronicle though. Climbing traction sucks quite a lot with the Chronicles in comparison to the Bomboloni's.


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## durkind (Jul 8, 2005)

TheArmand said:


> If you have durability issues with Chronicles do NOT try Bomboloni's. I have extensive experience riding and bikepacking with both of them. My Bomboloni's hanging in my garage have 5 tubeless patches between both tires. So far just 1 on my Chronicles. Bombolonis are a WAY better performing rear tire than the Chronicle though. Climbing traction sucks quite a lot with the Chronicles in comparison to the Bomboloni's.


I'm having durability issues with my Bombolonies (and they are expensive). What do you like that's comparable?


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Chupacabras are a good tire which I have had very good luck with from a durability standpoint. I'm not familiar with Bomboloni's, but I scratch my head when I read good reviews on the Chronicles - they are, IMHO, an almost dangerous tire.

From what I can tell, you would give up a lot of rolling resistance switching from a Bomboloni to a Minion. A Chupacabra should be similar. I do plan on switching to Minion's on our next trip to Sedona though - more peace of mind on the sharp rock.


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## MrIcky (Oct 2, 2007)

I just went to Trek site and sorted by tire size and this is what comes up now for 29x3. Note there's no Chupa there.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...rager-chupacabra-tlr/p/12343/?colorCode=black

They are still listed under the fat bike category. both 27.5 and 29 are listed as out of stock but they are there


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

Very happy with 29x3.0 WTB rangers so far. Fast, light, and lots of traction. Only complaint is that the tread is wearing faster than most tires I've used in the past. 

I typically have to run maxxis exo or specialized grid to prevent sidewall slices. May just be luck, but so far no issues with the rangers after around 150 miles. 

I've had the tires on a rigid bike with 40i rims.


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## MrIcky (Oct 2, 2007)

Jefflinde said:


> https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...rager-chupacabra-tlr/p/12343/?colorCode=black
> 
> They are still listed under the fat bike category. both 27.5 and 29 are listed as out of stock but they are there


Good, I'm sort of a Chupa fan. It's nice to see some more mid-size knob tires though and i'll probably give the SE's a try..


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

coke said:


> Very happy with 29x3.0 WTB rangers so far. Fast, light, and lots of traction. Only complaint is that the tread is wearing faster than most tires I've used in the past.


Ditto - love them as a back tire - but they do wear quickly

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Another winter approaches, and the arisun sharktooth (the only studded 29+) has not been available for an entire year. Grrr.

(I have a nicotine, and it's not 29+, whatever anyone says)


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

they sold a few last year, actually
but only a few


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Oh, I've been watching. A few places had them last December, but nothing since.

And maxxis just announced a 29x2.1 studded tire, which is so weird. Did we really need another skinny tire competing with the nokian and schwalbes? (the answer is no)


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

A couple 29+ Sharktooths were on ebay today
Set your alerts


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## caminoloco (Jan 13, 2008)

Can someone with 29+ experience point me to a few tire choices for really rough (but generally dry) terrain? By rough I mean sharp & big rocks... lots of them... 

Thx!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Anyone know of a street tire that will fit the Rabbit Holes? Maybe something like the Black Floyd, but for 29+ and would fit the Krampus fork (so not 3.8).

Thanks.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Magicscreen said:


> Anyone know of a street tire that will fit the Rabbit Holes? Maybe something like the Black Floyd, but for 29+ and would fit the Krampus fork (so not 3.8).
> 
> Thanks.


 While not a plus tire, I ran the schwalbe G-one 2.35 on my 50mm plus rims and that actually worked out pretty well. I have since built a set of wheels with fat bike hubs and 20mm road rims for street riding but those tires do work well on the wide rims. And they are so freaking fast it is scary. Lowest rolling resistance of almost any tire.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> While not a plus tire, I ran the schwalbe G-one 2.35 on my 50mm plus rims and that actually worked out pretty well. I have since built a set of wheels with fat bike hubs and 20mm road rims for street riding but those tires do work well on the wide rims. And they are so freaking fast it is scary. Lowest rolling resistance of almost any tire.


This is excellent, Jeff! Thanks for the tip!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

here are the two setups. the top one is them on my 50mm rims and the second is on a regular road rim that i laced up. i do like them better on the road rim but they worked great on the 50mm rim when i didn't have a choice.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

caminoloco said:


> Can someone with 29+ experience point me to a few tire choices for really rough (but generally dry) terrain? By rough I mean sharp & big rocks... lots of them...
> 
> Thx!


Maxxis Minions DHF/DHR 29x3, Sedona, Gooseberry, Hurricane Cliffs no issues with lots of sidewall hits(60 tpi)


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## Slowtalker (Apr 29, 2017)

Racing Ralph’s are my all time favorite tire. I’m waiting and praying for the day schwalbe makes them in a 29x3. It’s gonna be glorious...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matt.s67 (Nov 4, 2016)

Spam - If anyone is looking for a set of 29x3.0 DHF/DHR2, I have a pair sitting in my garage with a ton of life left and will sell them cheap. I have them posted in the classifieds with photos.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

caminoloco said:


> Can someone with 29+ experience point me to a few tire choices for really rough (but generally dry) terrain? By rough I mean sharp & big rocks... lots of them...
> 
> Thx!


vee bullbozer is a big burly tire. the chupacabra doesn't seem to be one; but i am amazed by how well it holds up and would roll alot better than the other burly choices out there if not having having big knobs for traction is not an issue where you live..


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

SPAM: WTB Ranger Light 29 x 3.0 tires for sale

WTB Ranger Light Fast - 29" x 3.0 tires new - MTBR Classifieds


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Bombolonies report-very thin tread/carcass (TNT version). One tire plug in rear tire that has has held but now two new holes in front that Stan's won't seal. Not a ton of miles either. Thousands of miles on regular mountain and haven't had to use tire plugs at all except once this summer with a Vitoria mezcal-hmmm!! Maybe Vit needs more work in the mtb arra


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Anyone have a Bulldozer they would be willing to part company with? I'd like to try one. Pay whatever is fair. Thanks JD


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

Stopped by the booth at outerbike of a tire company I had never heard of.

Terrene Tires | Ready to Ride

Was impressed with what I saw and their passion for making quality tires.
I regret not talking them into trying to swap a pair of the McFly 29 x 2.8 tough casing into my front and rear to see if the fit there on the spot.
I believe he said they do intend to make the Chunk in a 29+.

Not affiliated, just sharing since I had never heard of them until I saw their booth.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

billj121 said:


> Stopped by the booth at outerbike of a tire company I had never heard of.
> 
> Terrene Tires | Ready to Ride
> 
> ...


Did you happen to observe the sidewall on the lighter version of the McFly 2.8 ?
Thinking of Trying one of these but put off by the lower tread in the center of the tire and not sure how lite it is. (or tough)


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

TuTone T said:


> Did you happen to observe the sidewall on the lighter version of the McFly 2.8 ?
> Thinking of Trying one of these but put off by the lower tread in the center of the tire and not sure how lite it is. (or tough)


I did feel it and would compare it to non EXO Maxxis.


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## WANDRER (Nov 5, 2017)

I have been running the Maxxis Chronicle 29+ on surly rabbit hole hoops on Hope Fatsno hubs. Its been an awesome setup.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

WANDRER said:


> I have been running the Maxxis Chronicle 29+ on surly rabbit hole hoops on Hope Fatsno hubs. Its been an awesome setup.


hmmm...i am looking at getting Minons for mine...what kind of terrain do you ride in? I need tires that shed mud, and snow, but more mud quickly. Was told to try the Gravity Vidars, but I don't think they make them anymore. Do the Chronicles shed mud well?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Do the Chronicles shed mud well?


Chronicles are scary slick in the mud. Stay away. dry only.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm also going to say that the Chronicle is 100% not a mud tire. I ran it on the back a bit last winter, and in the snow it wasn't too bad. But as a front tire, it can get pretty terrifying if there's mud.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> hmmm...i am looking at getting Minons for mine...what kind of terrain do you ride in? I need tires that shed mud, and snow, but more mud quickly. Was told to try the Gravity Vidars, but I don't think they make them anymore. Do the Chronicles shed mud well?


Vidars are now called Innova Transformers.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

*40 mm Wheel Sale*

I couldn't find a thread that was exclusively rims, but how does one go plus tires without the right rim? If you've wanted to try 29+, but not had the cash for an $800+ wheelset, well I just saw this: American Classic is blowing out their 40 mm internal, Smokin Guns in 27.5" or 29". $399, half price. They're quoted at 1750g for the pair in a 27.5". https://amclassic.com/index.php/whee...mokin-gun.html.

Reviews: https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...eelset-review/
https://nevcragg.com/2016/04/17/amer...-sized-wheels/


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you can do it cheaper
$100 for Boost hubs on ebay
rims are starting at $50 apiece or so


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Don't know WTF you got those prices for, the link you posted doesn't work and if you go search the site they're selling them for $570 and they only have 142x12 available. Other than that, not exactly sure how they measure, but their numbers don't inspire me with confidence in terms of rim wall thickness, most any other manufacturer is doing iw30/ew35 or some where in the 2.5mm> thick sides, AC lists theirs at 1.5mm thick.



xprmntl said:


> I couldn't find a thread that was exclusively rims, but how does one go plus tires without the right rim? If you've wanted to try 29+, but not had the cash for an $800+ wheelset, well I just saw this: American Classic is blowing out their 40 mm internal, Smokin Guns in 27.5" or 29". $399, half price. They're quoted at 1750g for the pair in a 27.5". https://amclassic.com/index.php/whee...mokin-gun.html.


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

Ibis is currently having a sale on their wheels.
I am running the 938 with Ibis hubs as a replacement for a set of Rovals that spun a hub and am really liking them with a little over 900 miles so far.
34/35 mm internal, asymmetric $399 for aluminum.

Wheels - Ibis Cycles Online Store


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

LyNx said:


> Don't know WTF you got those prices for, the link you posted doesn't work and if you go search the site they're selling them for $570 and they only have 142x12 available. Other than that, not exactly sure how they measure, but their numbers don't inspire me with confidence in terms of rim wall thickness, most any other manufacturer is doing iw30/ew35 or some where in the 2.5mm> thick sides, AC lists theirs at 1.5mm thick.


I clicked his link earlier, and they were indeed $399 earlier today. Maybe they saw his post and raised the price! Everything else you said is correct.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

billj121 said:


> Ibis is currently having a sale on their wheels.
> I am running the 938 with Ibis hubs as a replacement for a set of Rovals that spun a hub and am really liking them with a little over 900 miles so far.
> 34/35 mm internal, asymmetric $399 for aluminum.
> 
> Wheels - Ibis Cycles Online Store


Yeah, the 938s are same price but 200g heavier. The Smokin Guns are symmetric on the hub in Boost spacing (different take on Boost) so don't need the asymmetric rim.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

bruto said:


> you can do it cheaper
> $100 for Boost hubs on ebay
> rims are starting at $50 apiece or so


+spokes +nipples +labor. And see if you can hit 1750g a set...


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Don't know WTF you got those prices for, the link you posted doesn't work and if you go search the site they're selling them for $570 and they only have 142x12 available. Other than that, not exactly sure how they measure, but their numbers don't inspire me with confidence in terms of rim wall thickness, most any other manufacturer is doing iw30/ew35 or some where in the 2.5mm> thick sides, AC lists theirs at 1.5mm thick.


WhyTF do I have to do everything for people?! I checked and it seems they just changed to a 30% off coupon code for Black Friday. Use the code BF30. WTF on due diligence with the site?

I'm just alerting people to the best set-up in a true 40mm internal for the price. Argue all you want. See if others are having issues on MTBR, whatever.

If you're denting rims, you might just be running too low a pressure. But it does happen, and if and when it does, just bend out the dent. The magic of aluminum.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

xprmntl said:


> +spokes +nipples +labor. And see if you can hit 1750g a set...


you don't have to buy $3 spokes - AmClassic wheelset uses 14/15g butted ones and those are inexpensive
you can also lace the wheels yourself and pay just for tensioning
and pick as light or as heavy rim as you want

as for the weight...
AmC's listed weight for the front 27.5 Smoking Gun is 810g which means a very light rim and i'd be wary of that
front hub is ~100g, 32 14/15g spokes in this length w/ nipples are ~200g
that leaves 500 for the rim and it's not much for an alloy one of this width and depth
only 3mm difference between IW and EW means thin sidewall as well, easy to bend on impact


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

bruto said:


> you don't have to buy $3 spokes - AmClassic wheelset uses 14/15g butted ones and those are inexpensive
> you can also lace the wheels yourself and pay just for tensioning
> and pick as light or as heavy rim as you want
> 
> ...


Okay, let's just see the links to all the parts (esp. a 40mm internal rim) you think are going to make a better, or even comparable, set of wheels at that price point.

You can be wary of this and that, too, of AC parts, but if you look for evidence online, you'll find by and large positive. Nobody trash talks on that AC front hub (the 130, as in grams). The weight target becomes even harder w the rear--the 225. This stuff is arguably up there with DT Swiss quality, not Novatec and generic Chinese competition.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Hard to get a front hub wrong 
You can go lighter than 130g without risking anything, it's probably AmC's trademark high flanges that are giving it the extra grams
Although hub weight is largely irrelevant as far as wheel performance is concerned
I'd even go as far as claiming that cutting weight on the rear one is counterproductive because it usually comes at the expense of axle thickness and bearing sizes
(and engagement mechanism diameter, which makes it harder to achieve high POE everyone wants - smaller ratchet equals fewer and smaller teeth)

FYI, novatec (and other taiwanese makers) make a range of hubs - some cheap, some high end
It's incorrect to use the same measure for all of them, because construction is quite different between, say, 772/882 and 642 models

regarding the rims:
ETERNITY INDUSTRIAL CO. LTD. - $20 at the factory, probably closer to $40-50 shipped to you if you buy a box of them (worked out to roughly $40 apiece for me, but I'm not in the US)
welded and nice, there's a 45mm IW model at 600g in 27.5 size

but that's if you can get a group buy going, no sense bothering the factory for just a single pair of them

and then there're sales at CRC, where they have Easton Arc+ for $35 or so (only 29+ remaining now) or Scrapers for $50

another option is these: READY 40 | Blackjack High Performance Wheels
shallow yes, triangular yes but also cheap if you can find them (distributed in Europe)


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

xprmntl said:


> This stuff is arguably up there with DT Swiss quality, not Novatec and generic Chinese competition.


I was watching passively until you made this unsupportable claim. Who do you think makes the AC hubs? Formula or Novatec or some Chinese company are the likely candidates. It isn't in-house AC and it isn't DT Swiss.

Equating AC to DT Swiss is ridiculous, unless you're talking years-old 370 models. The ratchet freehub driver on the 350 models is vastly superior in robustness and reliability to any hub in the AC lineup. Or the Ibis line-up for that matter.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

in robustness, reliability and coasting drag 

and people have stripped 36t racthets in a single season because, well, they needed to make a larger ratchet for more POE, not just cram smaller teeth into the same size


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

bruto said:


> and then there're sales at CRC, where they have Easton Arc+ for $35 or so (only 29+ remaining now) or Scrapers for $50


I think perhaps you haven't checked CRC for a while. The only Arc's they have left are 28H 45mm 27.5 and they are $42.50. Fine value if you need those specs, but not applicable to someone looking for 29+.

Also, no Scraper rims at all.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

well, they're showing them at $37.5 to me


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

bruto said:


> in robustness, reliability and *coasting drag*
> 
> and people have stripped 36t racthets in a single season because, well, they needed to make a larger ratchet for more POE, not just cram smaller teeth into the same size


Even assuming *this *is valid, that ~ 1watt of energy matters to anyone riding 29+ wheels???? Especially when you're often braking when coasting? Trivial differences in freehub drag are irrelevant to virtually all MTB scenarios.

Walking or singlespeeding for 3 or 4 hours after a freehub failure is directly relevant.

I have >3000 hours on DT ratchets without a hint of failure. I killed 7 pawl designs from 4 different manufacturers in less than 400 hours total. Anecdotal evidence by statistical standards, yes, but enough to stop me from ever heading out on any ride w/ pawls again. Of course not all pawls are created equal, but its not a stretch to assume the AC designs are not the cream of the crop.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

bruto said:


> well, they're showing them at $37.5 to me


You mean if you add 3 of them to your cart and apply the $15 code? That sort of obfuscates the discussion if you can't get $10 off 2. Not to mention you're ignoring that every other element of your claim (29+ rims, Scraper rims) was false.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

InertiaMan said:


> I was watching passively until you made this unsupportable claim. Who do you think makes the AC hubs? Formula or Novatec or some Chinese company are the likely candidates. It isn't in-house AC and it isn't DT Swiss.
> 
> Equating AC to DT Swiss is ridiculous, unless you're talking years-old 370 models. The ratchet freehub driver on the 350 models is vastly superior in robustness and reliability to any hub in the AC lineup. Or the Ibis line-up for that matter.


Uh, before becoming impassive, you should know what you're spouting about. No one makes AC's hubs and rims for them, they have their own facility in Taichung, Taiwan, and still do assembly and finish work in the US. 
And comparing a heavier DT 350 is not the right comparison. A DT 240 is, and there are tons of complaints about their ratchet rings failing on that model. I guess you could go on about POE differences, but that's another debate...


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

xprmntl said:


> Uh, before becoming impassive, you should know what you're spouting about. No one makes AC's hubs and rims for them, they have their own facility in Taichung, Taiwan, and still do assembly and finish work in the US.


Well I guess it depends on what step you consider in the manufacturing. Or as Bill Clinton might say, "define _make_ "

Here is a blurb from the BikeRadar article I was going off of from memory:
_As is the case for many Asian bicycle component factories, American Classic's new 36,000sq ft facility in Taichung, Taiwan isn't so much an all-in-one manufacturing plant where raw materials come in and finished products go out as it is a home base for shipping, receiving, final finishing and assembly of individual parts. Most of the earlier processes - such as aluminum hub shell forging, freehub body machining, raw rim extrusions and anodizing - are done off-site by contractors_

I will concede that AC is not just a brand sticker on some generic hub, and if my original comment implied as much, it wasn't intended. They are directly involved in the design and engineering. But unless the article I quoted from above is totally bogus, they are not fully in-house manufacturing the hubs as you've implied. It sounds to me like they are _assembled _ at the Taiwan facility.

Regardless, I don't think we need to debate the precise meaning of "make" given how far we've already ranged from the thread topic (tires!). I think both our perspectives have merit. But my "spouting off" was based on the data above, not just speculation.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

InertiaMan said:


> You mean if you add 3 of them to your cart and apply the $15 code? That sort of obfuscates the discussion if you can't get $10 off 2. Not to mention you're ignoring that every other element of your claim (29+ rims, Scraper rims) was false.


Scrapers were on sale earlier this year (or maybe it was Asyms and my memory's wrong). Some people here bought them, I didn't cause I didn't need them so I might be remembering incorrectly.
Never said they're there now, but they do have sales once in a while, and there're usually some deals to be had
As for the Arcs, I'm in a different country than you and CRC shows me different prices:


http://imgur.com/Cx1rC


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## mtnbikeguru (Nov 16, 2017)

Looking at building a 29plus wheel set. Going to use DT Swiss 240 hubs, spokes and nipples. Tire of choice is Surly Dirt Wizard. Since DT Swiss doesn't have a rim was considering Sun Ringle Duroc, but unsure about 40mm or 50mm rim. Anyone use these rims and tires? Thanks


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

mtnbikeguru said:


> Looking at building a 29plus wheel set. Going to use DT Swiss 240 hubs, spokes and nipples. Tire of choice is Surly Dirt Wizard. Since DT Swiss doesn't have a rim was considering Sun Ringle Duroc, but unsure about 40mm or 50mm rim. Anyone use these rims and tires? Thanks


FWIW the Arc 29 rims are widely available in 35, 40 and 45 widths (Raceface and Easton version are identical, just different branding). I've found they build up well, and they seat w/ tubeless ready tires extremely well. Personally I'd stay nearer 40mm than 50mm for 3" tires and less, but everyone has their preferences. If you're unsure on 40 vs 50 maybe the 45 is a good option.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Anybody have any thoughts on which current 29+ tire would be fastest rolling on pavement? I'm looking at using a 29+ setup I have for winter commuting and don't want to use my Minion. 

Obviously the Vee Speedster looks pretty much like 'it', but it would be nice to have a little tread in case I want to take it on some dirt. 

Currently I'm thinking Chronicles.


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## mtnbikeguru (Nov 16, 2017)

Shinkers said:


> Anybody have any thoughts on which current 29+ tire would be fastest rolling on pavement? I'm looking at using a 29+ setup I have for winter commuting and don't want to use my Minion.
> 
> Obviously the Vee Speedster looks pretty much like 'it', but it would be nice to have a little tread in case I want to take it on some dirt.
> 
> Currently I'm thinking Chronicles.


Have quite a few customers who use the WTB ranger tough/fast for commuting. Good on pavement, dirt roads and ditch banks, plus ok with a little snow.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Rnger was also on my list. Thanks for the feedback!


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

mtnbikeguru said:


> Looking at building a 29plus wheel set. Going to use DT Swiss 240 hubs, spokes and nipples. Tire of choice is Surly Dirt Wizard. Since DT Swiss doesn't have a rim was considering Sun Ringle Duroc, but unsure about 40mm or 50mm rim. Anyone use these rims and tires? Thanks


Presently have an ARC40 laced to a Hope boost hub up front got em when CRC had the closeout under Easton label, sold to Raceface. Laced up fine and tubeless easy setup. I've use Dirt Wizards in the past but switched to DHFs much better tire. Note that DWs are smaller diameter than normal 29x3, middle knobs are lacking.


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

socal_jack said:


> Presently have an ARC40 laced to a Hope boost hub up front got em when CRC had the closeout under Easton label, sold to Raceface. Laced up fine and tubeless easy setup. I've use Dirt Wizards in the past but switched to DHFs much better tire. Note that DWs are smaller diameter than normal 29x3, middle knobs are lacking.


I have the same arc40 setup with hopes- love them


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Add bontrager xr2 and xr4 29x3.0 tires 

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

Shinkers said:


> Anybody have any thoughts on which current 29+ tire would be fastest rolling on pavement? I'm looking at using a 29+ setup I have for winter commuting and don't want to use my Minion.
> 
> Obviously the Vee Speedster looks pretty much like 'it', but it would be nice to have a little tread in case I want to take it on some dirt.
> 
> Currently I'm thinking Chronicles.


I would go with a used set of Knards . . . and I just happen to have a pair I dont need. PM me if you want them.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

the Knards do work well on pavement on the random times I ride my Krampus on tar...usually from one trail to the other...(I get .05% of the sale  )


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

As it happens, I can get a Knard from a friend locally. My only hesitation is the lack of a tubeless ready bead. Is that going to be a problem on a tubeless rim like a Mulefut?


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

Shinkers said:


> As it happens, I can get a Knard from a friend locally. My only hesitation is the lack of a tubeless ready bead. Is that going to be a problem on a tubeless rim like a Mulefut?


I ran my knards with a nextie jungle fox rim tubeless just fine.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Cool. Straight tubeless with just tubeless tape? No split tube or gorilla tape junk?


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

Shinkers said:


> Cool. Straight tubeless with just tubeless tape? No split tube or gorilla tape junk?


No split tube. Nextie Jungle fox are tubeless ready so you just tape over the spoke holes with stans tape or the equivalent and go.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Perfect. Thanks.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

*Advice on Wider Rims Sought*

Gents-

I have a good amount of time on 50mm rims, but not as much in snow. Current wheels are 35/30 internal which I like very much for 3-season use for 2.8-3.0 tires. But with snow coming I am wondering about building a 50mm wheelset and whether the extra 15mm would be worth the expense.

I can run marginally lower pressure- e.g. if I run 14/18 PSI summer, that might go 10/14 on snow on current wheels, maybe 8/11 with 50mm rims. Having tough time deciding if it would be worth the $350-$500 to build/buy a basic set. Bike has boost spacing.

Then again it would be 50% internal width increase. Any experience in snow at both rim widths?

Thanks!


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

no experience with 35mm ID, but 3.0 on 50mm rims is still no fatbike
I suppose there's a marginal advantage, but it won't make you float
then again, $350-500 is an exaggeration and a wheelset can be had for less
if you can find a rim with ERD very close to yours, you might be able to replace just the rims

and I recommend finding yourself Duro Crux for the winter (or year round)
wide and knobby enough for snow. Maybe 3.25" if it fits the frame
Bought a Cannoli for the rear and it's tougher and paddly-knobbed alright, but undersized


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

bruto said:


> Bought a Cannoli for the rear and it's tougher and paddly-knobbed alright, but undersized


Got pics!?
Dying to hear your thoughts in this. I've been thinking about one for the front of my bike for the dry dusty loose trails here in A-Z. I love the Bomboloni, but wouldn't turn down s little more 'stick' up front, without going all the way to a Motocross-like 3.0 minion. you're the first person I've seen with hands-on experience.

When you say "undersized", like how much? And how/when did you measure? All the plus tires I've ever mounted started out small and we're pretty close to claimed after a few rides-the most recent Bombo started out at 2.7 but is 2.96 after some miles. My Chronicles were the same.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Cannoli is 70mm wide on a 45mm IW rim
Crux 3.0 is 75 on 50mm rim (as were Bomboloni and Ranger before it)
all installed tubeless, all measured by casing

it's winter here, with snow everywhere
not much to tell about the tire in these conditions except that it paddles better than Bomboloni did last year  so i expect it to help me a little better up some hills

chevron-shaped knobs are 3.5mm tall in the center, spaced 25mm apart from each other
casing appears to be the same as Bomboloni
when deflated, it holds the weight of the bike, while Crux completely flattens (much thinner sidewalls)


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

If the specs on Jensen's site are correct it's one of the heaver 3.0 tires out there.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

lots of rubber on it
it was less than 1200g though, they probably made it narrower since the first samples that were presented last spring


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Wonder how the siped Cannoli would compare with a DHF for grip. Seems relatively aggressive... I've been looking for a slightly shorter front tire to give me a skosh more room in my Fox 34 that's not a Dirt Wizard.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

why not look for a fork with more clearance?
would probably cost less than your Fox, too


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Probably because I already own the fox and tires are cheaper than forks?

I'm not butt hurt enough about the clearance enough to care that much anyway. I've had no issues so far and the fork has been amazing.

That said, if the right tire came along I'd jump on it.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't know if anyone else has been looking for the studded arisun sharktooth 29+, but they've finally popped up again on the electronic bay.

I'm going to try 1 out, if only because the current crop of studded 29er tires could certainly be improved (nokian and icespiker are just too small, and the nicotine just isn't very good)


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

Magicscreen said:


> Anyone know of a street tire that will fit the Rabbit Holes? Maybe something like the Black Floyd, but for 29+ and would fit the Krampus fork (so not 3.8).
> 
> Thanks.


29 x 2.8 Vee Speedster. Here is a pretty good deal on the 120 tpi fold version.
VEE TIRE & RUBBER TIRES VEE SPEEDSTER 29x2.8 BK/BK FOLD/120/SC B316136


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

Surly okays Rabbit Hole for anything over 2.4". Maxxis Grifter and Hookworm in a 29 x 2.5.
Schwalbe usually run large, so possibly a G One or a Big Apple in a 29 x 2.35


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Sharktooths are now in stock everywhere
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/tires-arisun-sharktooth-29x2-8-bk-fold-120-tr


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

bruto said:


> no experience with 35mm ID, but 3.0 on 50mm rims is still no fatbike


A 3.0 Knard on an 85mm ID rim is getting close.


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## MrIcky (Oct 2, 2007)

Has anyone had a chance to ride the new Bontrager XR4s? I'd love to hear some impressions.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I got my sharktooth two weeks ago, and am pretty happy with. I need to take some pictures, but it's about midway between my 2.35 Nicotine and 3 Ranger. So maybe not a true 2.8, but probably a 2.6 or maybe 2.7.

I didn't necessarily want a huge tire, but I wanted something bigger than the tiny Ice Spiker, and better than the kindof lousy nicotine (nicotine is okay as a rear tire, but I really don't trust it on the front).

I'd still love an Ice Spiker in the 2.8~3 range, and if the Wrathchild ever comes out in 29 I'll probably give it a shot, but for now I think the sharktooth will do fine.


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## Marsukurac (Mar 10, 2013)

Hi, what is the best compromise internal width rim, which one could use for anything from 2.6 (e.g. teravail cumberland) to 3.25 (e.g. Crux). Thinking of building a steel bike for both bushwacking and some trail riding but with only one wheels...


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Marsukurac said:


> Hi, what is the best compromise internal width rim, which one could use for anything from 2.6 (e.g. teravail cumberland) to 3.25 (e.g. Crux). Thinking of building a steel bike for both bushwacking and some trail riding but with only one wheels...


Having been through that entire thought process over the past week, I'm building up a set of sunRingle Duroc 40's laced to I9 hubs. Internal width is 36 mm, so will handle the range you need. They are relatively light and sturdy, also. I have a set of Flow MK3's, which I love, but they are i29mm, and I need a bit wider for 3.0's.


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## Marsukurac (Mar 10, 2013)

waltaz said:


> Having been through that entire thought process over the past week, I'm building up a set of sunRingle Duroc 40's laced to I9 hubs. Internal width is 36 mm, so will handle the range you need. They are relatively light and sturdy, also. I have a set of Flow MK3's, which I love, but they are i29mm, and I need a bit wider for 3.0's.


Excellent answer, thanks


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Marsukurac said:


> Hi, what is the best compromise internal width rim, which one could use for anything from 2.6 (e.g. teravail cumberland) to 3.25 (e.g. Crux). Thinking of building a steel bike for both bushwacking and some trail riding but with only one wheels...





waltaz said:


> Having been through that entire thought process over the past week, I'm building up a set of sunRingle Duroc 40's laced to I9 hubs. Internal width is 36 mm, so will handle the range you need. They are relatively light and sturdy, also. I have a set of Flow MK3's, which I love, but they are i29mm, and I need a bit wider for 3.0's.


I second Walt. An i40 will work for both. narrower than i35 will probably be squirmy for 3.25. I'd expect frame clearance for a 3.25 to be a bigger issue than a few mm of rim width though. Unless you mean "building a steel bike" to mean actual custom frame construction.

I personally put 2.6 NN's on an i39 Dually and didn't like the profile, but that's personal and terrain dependent preference.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'd tend to agree, if I wanted to run such a wide range of widths, I'd definitely go for an i35, that way you've got good support on avg for all of them. Ideally though if you were to decide you like the 3"> size, I'd highly recommend building at least an i39mm wide rim to get proper sidewall support, but maybe you'll be one of those people who prefer a narrower rim than most who run Plus sizes.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

I have the 50mm durocs, and agree 40 would be a good choice. Mine work well but definitely are on the bigger side for 3.0 chupas 

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

Marsukurac said:


> Hi, what is the best compromise internal width rim, which one could use for anything from 2.6 (e.g. teravail cumberland) to 3.25 (e.g. Crux). Thinking of building a steel bike for both bushwacking and some trail riding but with only one wheels...


DT Swiss chart shows that the recommended width centers on about 35 - 45 mm https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net/uploads/WXD10000000866S/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf


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## pssaenz (Jan 21, 2007)

Hey. I'm trying to setup an Innova Transformer (F) and a Panaracer Fat B Nimble (R) tubeless on Carbonfan rims (i39, asymmetric) but no luck so far. The tires seem to fit a tad loose on the rims. I couldn't make them pop with a floor pump or the gas station compressors so I bought a compressor. They pop in right away but leak air all around the bead, it seems. I used 2 oz of Stans Race b/c I didn't have anymore. 

Anyone using this combination of rims and tires by chance? Or any ideas of how to fix this. Is it a matter of just putting in more Stans (or another, thicker sealant)? I guess I could put some tape on the rim channels but I'd like to avoid doing that.

Thanks!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

pssaenz said:


> Hey. I'm trying to setup an Innova Transformer (F) and a Panaracer Fat B Nimble (R) tubeless on Carbonfan rims (i39, asymmetric) but no luck so far. The tires seem to fit a tad loose on the rims. I couldn't make them pop with a floor pump or the gas station compressors so I bought a compressor. They pop in right away but leak air all around the bead, it seems. I used 2 oz of Stans Race b/c I didn't have anymore.
> 
> Anyone using this combination of rims and tires by chance? Or any ideas of how to fix this. Is it a matter of just putting in more Stans (or another, thicker sealant)? I guess I could put some tape on the rim channels but I'd like to avoid doing that.
> 
> Thanks!


More Stan's...


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## pssaenz (Jan 21, 2007)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> More Stan's...


Yep. That worked. Thanks!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

pssaenz said:


> Yep. That worked. Thanks!


You're welcome!

In my opinion, 2 oz. is a minimum in a tire that's already been sealed. In a new tire you're going to use close to 4 oz. just to get it sealed up...


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## doctock993 (Jun 23, 2009)

Just thought anyone who is looking to try this tire out - I just ordered a pair of Vee Rubber Speedster 29x2.8 at <$15/ tire with free shipping!

(I have no association with seller, hosting web-commerce site, etc)


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

doctock993 said:


> Just thought anyone who is looking to try this tire out - I just ordered a pair of Vee Rubber Speedster 29x2.8 at <$15/ tire with free shipping!
> 
> (I have no association with seller, hosting web-commerce site, etc)


Thanks! Ordered a pair. Now I have to build a bike around them.


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## doctock993 (Jun 23, 2009)

doctock993 said:


> Just thought anyone who is looking to try this tire out - I just ordered a pair of Vee Rubber Speedster 29x2.8 at <$15/ tire with free shipping!
> 
> (I have no association with seller, hosting web-commerce site, etc)


And just got an email saying "Sorry - misprint on price - order cancelled"

I knew it was too good to be true


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

doctock993 said:


> And just got an email saying "Sorry - misprint on price - order cancelled"
> 
> I knew it was too good to be true


Same here. i was really looking forward to having to figure out what to do with them


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

Which Fork would you recommend for maximum tire clearance of a 29x3.0 (2.8)?
Fox 36 or RS Lyric?


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## IL8APEX (Apr 24, 2017)

boblike said:


> Which Fork would you recommend for maximum tire clearance of a 29x3.0 (2.8)?


My Trek Stache came with a Fox 34 wrapped around the Chupa 29x3.0 on a 45mm internal width rim... So your choices should provide plenty of clearance.

The Sid I bought initially wouldn't work with the Chupa, so don't go there!

-Tom


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## CBaron (May 7, 2004)

pssaenz said:


> Hey. I'm trying to setup an Innova Transformer (F) and a Panaracer Fat B Nimble (R) tubeless on Carbonfan rims (i39, asymmetric)


pssaenz, any chance you could post up a photo of these mounted? I'm thinking of possibly using the same rim(s) in a build for the purposes of sizing-down from my Chupas when I want to mount "race tires". The FBN is on my race tire list.

Thanks
CJB


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

*Maxxis Minion DHR II*

I have run Chupas since 2015 that I thought were a good balance of weight, rolling resistance, cornering, and braking. I have also used: Maxxis Chronicle, Surly Knard, Panaracer Fat B Nimble, Vittoria Bomboloni, WTB Ranger, and now the Maxxis Minion.
So far, the Minion DHR II is my favorite tire for the FRONT wheel for general trail riding where I expect to need a tire that rolls decently, but hooks up well in technical rocky terrain , loose turns, and steep sections. Here is my review of it for anyone who might be interested in the details and why I would or would not run it in some situations:


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Are there any news about an upcoming 2,6 or 2,8 DHF, DHR2 or Magic Mary?


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

I’ve been riding the Terrence McFly’s 29x2.8 tough casing for a month now. I can’t get over how much I like these tires! Great traction, fast, great in mud, and they even work well in an inch or two of snow. I ride predominantly rocky single track in central PA. 

The only negative may be that they are not real voluminous and probably measure more like 2.6-2.7 in width.

Best bike upgrade thus far!


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

Hi everyone

Looking for an up(down?)grade tyre wise for my Fargo. Currently running WTB Ranger 29x3 which gives me a few mm chainclearance. Great tyre other than a tad to big for me.

Since this is my go-everywhere bike I'm looking for a tyre that's good on both pavement and gravel. Roots and rocks are quite scarce where I'm riding.

Been thinking about the Terrene McFly, since it looks quite similar to the Rangers but smaller. Anything with an actual width of up to 70mm would do. My rims are Easton ARC+ 40id.

Any tips? Something I missed maybe.


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

hwcn said:


> I've been riding the Terrence McFly's 29x2.8 tough casing for a month now. I can't get over how much I like these tires! Great traction, fast, great in mud, and they even work well in an inch or two of snow. I ride predominantly rocky single track in central PA.
> 
> The only negative may be that they are not real voluminous and probably measure more like 2.6-2.7 in width.
> 
> Best bike upgrade thus far!


Would you recommend them for gravel? Any thoughts on rolling resistance? Which tire did you have before?


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## FatBike&SlenderWoman (Apr 1, 2016)

Magicscreen said:


> Anyone know of a street tire that will fit the Rabbit Holes? Maybe something like the Black Floyd, but for 29+ and would fit the Krampus fork...





evirob said:


> ...I'm looking for a tyre that's good on both pavement and gravel...


Vee Speedster 2.8 lowest rolling resistance and most durable on pavement of any 29+ tire. (at least until Schwabe starts making 29+ tires 
These are not intended for mud, soft sand or technical trail but they have the ability to transform a fat bike from a Hummer into a Mustang for fair weather commuting.
Recommend 25-30psi for street, 10-20psi unpaved trail and gravel.
I have been running them tubeless on Hugo rims flat free without sealant for two years.

Details and photos at link below.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/notubes-hugo-52mm-rim-921705-2.html#post12682747


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

McFly’s are superior in every way except for cush. I had Rangers and I am so much happier with the McFly’s.


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

evirob said:


> Would you recommend them for gravel? Any thoughts on rolling resistance? Which tire did you have before?


WTB Rangers and Schwalbe Rocket Ron's. Much better rolling. I think they would be fine in gravel. If the gravel is real loose or soft from lots of moisture, I think wider would be better for some float. The Mcfly's are more like 2.6-2.7 in width.


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

hwcn said:


> WTB Rangers and Schwalbe Rocket Ron's. Much better rolling. I think they would be fine in gravel. If the gravel is real loose or soft from lots of moisture, I think wider would be better for some float. The Mcfly's are more like 2.6-2.7 in width.


They dont offer the RR in 29x2.8/3.0 right? They would be a good candidate as well.

Wider surely is better, however the Fargo is unhappy with the current setup. The Rangers got a few mm clearance and chain is scraping mud if its wet.


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

hwcn said:


> McFly's are superior in every way except for cush. I had Rangers and I am so much happier with the McFly's.


Thanks for the answer, will probably go with the McFlys. They are a bit more expensive than the Rangers though.


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

These look promising as well. I need to ride and take a look at the few spots of forest here before though. Recently moved to southern Sweden and there's nothing but pavement here! Pavement and fields, lots of it.


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## jn24uk (Nov 26, 2015)

hwcn said:


> I've been riding the Terrence McFly's 29x2.8 tough casing for a month now. I can't get over how much I like these tires! Great traction, fast, great in mud, and they even work well in an inch or two of snow. I ride predominantly rocky single track in central PA.
> 
> The only negative may be that they are not real voluminous and probably measure more like 2.6-2.7 in width.
> 
> Best bike upgrade thus far!


What rim width are you using for the McFly's?


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

jn24uk said:


> What rim width are you using for the McFly's?


Duroc 40. External 40mm, internal 36mm.


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

evirob said:


> They dont offer the RR in 29x2.8/3.0 right? They would be a good candidate as well.
> 
> Wider surely is better, however the Fargo is unhappy with the current setup. The Rangers got a few mm clearance and chain is scraping mud if its wet.


I started with the Rocket Ron's on 27.5 rims. Tires are not durable. I then went 29 plus in the front and switched to WTB Rangers which had better sidewalls, but the tread does wear fast.

My frame and fork had clearance for 29 plus and I had the same mud scrapping issue as you, so I tried the Mcfly's. No more mud in the drivetrain and I can actually ride in mud. The Mcfly's Are just a great all around tire. However they are more like a plus minus. No where near the volume of a WTB Ranger, but superior in every other way.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bontrager XR4 29 x 3, mmmmm good, stickier than Minions, faster rolling than Minions, better riding than Minions. Pretty much better than Minions all the way around

Edit: In two weeks I have put a hole in the outer knobbies on a XR4 29 x 3” and a pinch hole at the rim edge on a XR4 29 x 2.6, being as I have put holes in only three tires (Ranger light, DW 120, Minion 3.8) in the past few years, these casings ain’t looking so promising.

Moving on, McFly heavy, Rekon, ....


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## evirob (Jan 20, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Bontrager XR4 29 x 3, mmmmm good, stickier than Minions, faster rolling than Minions, better riding than Minions. Pretty much better than Minions all the way around😀


How wide are they IRL? Any photos and/or measurements would be awesome!


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## CrLapp (Sep 13, 2017)

I am looking at getting a set of 29x2.8 tires for my wtb i35 wheels. I saw that there is the terrene mcfly are there any other options. I currently run a hodag on the front and dhr on the back of my farley 9 in the 27.5 fat wheelset. I would like to get a tread that is similar. I heard that a 3" tire would be snug in the bluto so that's why I was thinking 2.8


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

CrLapp said:


> I am looking at getting a set of 29x2.8 tires for my wtb i35 wheels. I saw that there is the terrene mcfly are there any other options. I currently run a hodag on the front and dhr on the back of my farley 9 in the 27.5 fat wheelset. I would like to get a tread that is similar. I heard that a 3" tire would be snug in the bluto so that's why I was thinking 2.8


The Mcfly is currently the only available 29x2.8 tire. There are a few 29x2.6 options from Bontrager, Maxxis, Schwalbe and Teravail.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

CrLapp said:


> I heard that a 3" tire would be snug in the bluto so that's why I was thinking 2.8


I have ran a 3.0 knard and a 3.0 bomboloni (both tubeless) on 50mm rims in my Bluto with no issues. Plenty of clearance. My inderstanding is that lots of people run 29 x 3.0 in Bluto. I was hoping to put one of the new Bontrager XR4 3.0 in there.


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## Chromehorn (Dec 3, 2011)

Moved.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nothing at hand. They measured 3" solid.

I did flat one last night, hold between the outside knobbies on the front, sealant wouldn't hold it, so I limped home with frequent pumping sessions.

I don't hole tires often, so bad luck or ??

I'll patch and plug it, go from there.



evirob said:


> How wide are they IRL? Any photos and/or measurements would be awesome!


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

Anyone here has experience with 29x2.6 NN in a 29er Pike 15x100 on a 30mm inner rim?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Vee Rubber Flow Snap -

This tire is a universal and polyvalent gravity tire created for a variety of different conditions from mud, to dry or loose terrain. A predictable tire, features controlled grip and breaking power and is a favorite for Bike Park riding
Aggressive side knobs for maneuverability
The best of both worlds, excellent grip and speed
Dual compound 52/48 durometer with 120 tpi casing
Width: 2.6"
Compound: dual
Bead: folding
Weight: 1,030g.
Color: black

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=94468


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

You have some of these and have ridden them? Ask as the tread pattern is quite "curious" to me, center knobs run as you would expect, "V" pointing forward when viewed from above, a lot like a DHF, but then the sides knobs go in the other direction like Schwalbe does theirs. Very interested to hear personal experience on a variety of trail conditions.


NH Mtbiker said:


> Vee Rubber Flow Snap -


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## felipespinoz (Apr 6, 2017)

Hi everybody
Sorry if this has been posted here (ir elsewhere) but no way to find something on this thread
I am trying to list available 29 x 2,8 trail tires, not too many options, or not?:

1) Terrene McFly
2) Arisun Sharktooth
3)....?

Thanks for any help



Enviado desde mi MotoG3 mediante Tapatalk


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## AVLthumper (Jul 14, 2015)

boblike said:


> Anyone here has experience with 29x2.6 NN in a 29er Pike 15x100 on a 30mm inner rim?


I run a 29x2.6 NN on a 24.5 i9 wheelset with a 29er Pike with no issues and plenty of clearance. I even use a Marsh Guard with the fork/tire combo.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## boblike (Mar 13, 2012)

Thank you so much! 

Is your pike non boost add well? 15x100?


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## bigjohnstud (Jul 31, 2006)

I did 29x2.6 NN on 2016 Specialized FSR 29. The front fork was a non boost Pike. Specialized Traverse SL 30mm internal. No clearance issues at all.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

What fork did you have in the rear? 



bigjohnstud said:


> I did 29x2.6 NN on 2016 Specialized FSR 29. The front fork was a non boost Pike. Specialized Traverse SL 30mm internal. No clearance issues at all.


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## bigjohnstud (Jul 31, 2006)

Hmmm, Sorry 2018 SJ FSR did not come with a rear fork. 

New to posting, I thought this was answering someones question about about tire clearance. Guess not, but at least I cleared up the rear fork issue.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Having bad results with the XR4 tires, holed a 2.6 over the weekend, holed a 3.0 last week, so I'm done. Already sold my undamaged XR4 3.0, have an undamaged XR4 2.6 for sale, as well as the holed but rideable XR4 2.6 and 3.0, send a PM if you want em.

After holing the XR4 2.6, I went to BC.Com and scored some Rekons 29 x 2.6. The ride was very predictable, like a taller and slightly narrower version of the 27.5 x 2.8 I rode for years on a Hendrix. No issue with flatting, very stable ride, like em, but at 2.6 they're really not plus.

Just ordered some Terrene McFly Tough 29 x 2.8 and Terrene Chunk Tough 29 x 2.6, review to follow.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> Having bad results with the XR4 tires, holed a 2.6 over the weekend, holed a 3.0 last week, so I'm done. Already sold my undamaged XR4 3.0, have an undamaged XR4 2.6 for sale, as well as the holed but rideable XR4 2.6 and 3.0, send a PM if you want em.
> 
> After holing the XR4 2.6, I went to BC.Com and scored some Rekons 29 x 2.6. The ride was very predictable, like a taller and slightly narrower version of the 27.5 x 2.8 I rode for years on a Hendrix. No issue with flatting, very stable ride, like em, but at 2.6 they're really not plus.
> 
> Just ordered some Terrene McFly Tough 29 x 2.8 and Terrene Chunk Tough 29 x 2.6, review to follow.


I have the 2.6 on my fuel and 3.0 on my stache. Nothing but great results for me so far.


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## mrcheviot (Sep 5, 2017)

Need to get my tires handled for my Borealis summer outfit, have a set of WTB Asym i35's that I rode Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0's on last year. Decidedly not a fan of them, had a few wash outs and the traction on anything remotely wet and especially over leaves in the fall was awful.

I ride in the Northeast (western NY to be precise), hardtail w/ manitou front, mix of hard singletrack and trails with normal amounts of roots & rocks. I weigh 210lbs all geared up. I don't race, so I'll take cornering confidence and rear climbing traction over lower rolling resistance 8 days a week. Definitely prefer easy transitioning tire vs. blocky on/off. Budget is an issue though...

I'm pretty set on trying an Innova Transformer 29x3 in the front. In the rear, I could go with another Transformer - it looks like a cousin to the Chupa/XR2 and the cost makes wear & durability less of a concern, but the dual compound Rekon 29x2.6 and the McFly 29x2.8 both have my attention. The Rekon is likely more durable (tread/shoulder 62a/60a vs. 62a/51a, jives w/ some reports of McFly wear), while the McFly prob has a better sidewall & shoulder profile mounted on a i35 rim.

My front Chronicle still has a bit of tread left, so I could also get by with that in the rear until late summer to wait for a) more reviews of the McFly and/or b) more 29x2.8 options.

Thoughts/recs? Anything else to consider for the rear?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I have been looking at the Duro Crux to put on for this summer....Surly Rabbit Holes on a v1 Krampus. I ride in Central Ohio...same kind of terrain with less elevation...(rode in the Adirondacks 2 years ago...will most likely retire there)

have been looking for aggressive tires for wet riding, as well as hero dirt, loose stuff...

I hope they give me a bit of an edge in corners and bushwacking. I will probably keep my Knards for bikepacking though


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## Pedaling Nowhere (Jul 18, 2005)

We just added a comprehensive list of 29+ tire options ranging from 29 x 2.8 - 29 x 3.5".


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

The 2.6 mezcal is out and about. Some info in the tire/wheel section in Mezcal
Thread.
2.35 vs. 2.6


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

josh8 said:


> I have the 2.6 on my fuel and 3.0 on my stache. Nothing but great results for me so far.


Do you use the tires for cornholing?


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

Have a couple of Chronicles on the way and have a quick question for those in the know...Have a Stache 9 and 9.8, both with Chupas on both ends. Is it safe to assume the Chronicle rolls better than the Chupa? Thinking of using them as rears on both bikes but they look like they wouldn't be too bad to have on both ends on the more trail-oriented bike. Thanks.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Have a couple of Chronicles on the way and have a quick question for those in the know...Have a Stache 9 and 9.8, both with Chupas on both ends. Is it safe to assume the Chronicle rolls better than the Chupa? Thinking of using them as rears on both bikes but they look like they wouldn't be too bad to have on both ends on the more trail-oriented bike. Thanks.


No. Chupas will roll better. Chronicles better DH. Chupas a touch wider (I think).


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm really liking the Minions. Sure they're a little heavy at 1100g/ tire but they're still lighter by 100g than my old Knards were with two layers of gorilla tape and rim strip to seal them. They are actually faster rolling on hard or firm terrain than Knards and Chupas. In soft they have such grip but it slows the roll some but not that bad really.

Function in disaster, finish in style!


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

SVO said:


> No. Chupas will roll better. Chronicles better DH. Chupas a touch wider (I think).


Cool, thank you. Maybe better as a front for me, I can always put one in the front on one bike and the other as a rear on the other to experiment. 
Yep, first world problems.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Curious how you came to choose the Chronicles over something else? From my and a lot of other peoples experience, no, not a great trail front tyre, LOTS of self steer and an overall weird steering feeling upfront, no great side knobs for good cornering bite. Outback they are passable if you already have them, but again, they roll slower than you would think they should. Honestly, I'd return them if you can for something else like maybe a 3" Minion, or XR4 or any of the other more popular 3" tyres, for the rear I'd just stick to the XR2(Chupa).



upstateSC-rider said:


> Have a couple of Chronicles on the way and have a quick question for those in the know...Have a Stache 9 and 9.8, both with Chupas on both ends. Is it safe to assume the Chronicle rolls better than the Chupa? Thinking of using them as rears on both bikes but they look like they wouldn't be too bad to have on both ends on the more trail-oriented bike. Thanks.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Just got 29x3 minions for the Krampus, DHF and DHR. Only had one ride on them and tire rub was an issue (rear wheel needs trued) but the grip is incredible. Super excited to try and find the limits on these tires.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

manitou2200 said:


> I'm really liking the Minions. Sure they're a little heavy at 1100g/ tire but they're still lighter by 100g than my old Knards were with two layers of gorilla tape and rim strip to seal them. They are actually faster rolling on hard or firm terrain than Knards and Chupas. In soft they have such grip but it slows the roll some but not that bad really.
> 
> Function in disaster, finish in style!





hirschmj said:


> Just got 29x3 minions for the Krampus, DHF and DHR. Only had one ride on them and tire rub was an issue (rear wheel needs trued) but the grip is incredible. Super excited to try and find the limits on these tires.


that is what I am planning to get as well for my V1 Krampus. Is yours V1 or V2?


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

sXeXBMXer said:


> that is what I am planning to get as well for my V1 Krampus. Is yours V1 or V2?


Mine's V1, the bass boat green version. Tire's real tight slammed all the way forward. I think I can get it to fit just by truing, but I'm looking into a tuggnut to space it back just a bit. It's about the same size as the Chronicle 29x3 I had in there before.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

manitou2200 said:


> I'm really liking the Minions. Sure they're a little heavy at 1100g/ tire but they're still lighter by 100g than my old Knards were with two layers of gorilla tape and rim strip to seal them. They are actually faster rolling on hard or firm terrain than Knards and Chupas. In soft they have such grip but it slows the roll some but not that bad really.
> 
> Function in disaster, finish in style!





hirschmj said:


> Mine's V1, the bass boat green version. Tire's real tight slammed all the way forward. I think I can get it to fit just by truing, but I'm looking into a tuggnut to space it back just a bit. It's about the same size as the Chronicle 29x3 I had in there before.


cool...thanks! Do you still have the Rabbit Hole wheels?

I have been looking for tires that work well in our winter conditions here in Ohio: wet leaves on the ground; slippery rocks and roots; mostly mud and sometimes snow...the minions seem like they will be the best after many months of researching. I was also scouting the Duro Crux's 3.25's, but I don't think they will fit


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

No, I built up some Nextie Jungle Fox carbon rims on a Stan's 3.30 front hub and a DT 240 QR only rear hub. They've been rolling well since 2014, though clearly the rear needs attention now.


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

I have a FTW frame with a Krampus fork. I had to work on rear tire clearance as the knobs are tall and large so not much if any squirm but I was getting some rub on my chain stays but slid the Paragon drop outs back to clear them as well as re-trued the wheels. 

I love these tires and they are not really slow rolling at all. The lugs don’t deflect much so the roll pretty well without the squirm. 


Function in disaster, finish in style.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Agree, the knobs are very firm on the 3" minions, not all squishy like on the 2.5's on my trailbike.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

LyNx said:


> *Curious how you came to choose the Chronicles over something else? From my and a lot of other peoples experience, no, not a great trail front tyre, LOTS of self steer and an overall weird steering feeling upfront, no great side knobs for good cornering bite.* Outback they are passable if you already have them, but again, they roll slower than you would think they should. Honestly, I'd return them if you can for something else like maybe a 3" Minion, or XR4 or any of the other more popular 3" tyres, for the rear I'd just stick to the XR2(Chupa).


I'd like to say 'I researched the hell out of them and it sounds like they'd be great on my trails', but no, got 'em at a great price and figured I'd give 'em a rip.  I've also heard others tear into Ardents and how bad they suck but I've always had great luck with them on the trails I'm usually on, so, 'What the hell?'


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Hahaha, figured you had probably picked them up from CRC at that price they had them at, heck I was even considering picking up one at that price to try as a 3" B+ rear since I don't like the other 3" B+ tyres I have. Yeah, not a fan of Ardents either, most especially upfront, on the back I can live with one, but will never mount another on the front of any bike I own.



upstateSC-rider said:


> I'd like to say 'I researched the hell out of them and it sounds like they'd be great on my trails', but no, got 'em at a great price and figured I'd give 'em a rip.  I've also heard others tear into Ardents and how bad they suck but I've always had great luck with them on the trails I'm usually on, so, 'What the hell?'


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Anyone else had trouble with fit of WTB Rangers lately? The first pair I had a year ago set-up great. 

More recently 3 tires, 2 heavy version and one light, have arrived too small and tough to impossible to get onto 2 different rims, experienced by myself and a buddy. He had new wheels and was convinced it was the rims until we threw on an old Vittoria.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Did anyone else see the Instagram post about tan wall rangers? Anyone have more info? I am looking at new rubber and had the rangers in the past. Good tire but they wear so fast. I also had issues with the sidewalls weeping really badly. Just makes the tire look like **** and then you get goop on your hands. I am leaning towards the innova transformer as I heard good things. But tan wall rangers might make me change my mind.


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## scandy1 (May 2, 2016)

anyone tires bigger than 29x3.25 out there? looking for something better for snow. I had the crux for awhile, it was ok, I feel like a 3.5 would be a lot better.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

Super wide 29 doesn't really make sense with the lower weight 27.5 & 26 options available.


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## danield (Jan 31, 2013)

---------


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## danield (Jan 31, 2013)

SVO said:


> Anyone else had trouble with fit of WTB Rangers lately? The first pair I had a year ago set-up great.
> 
> More recently 3 tires, 2 heavy version and one light, have arrived too small and tough to impossible to get onto 2 different rims, experienced by myself and a buddy. He had new wheels and was convinced it was the rims until we threw on an old Vittoria.


Same problem with me.
Very very hard to mount on a Stans Hugo 52, and impossible to take off the rim after some attempts


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

scandy1 said:


> anyone tires bigger than 29x3.25 out there? looking for something better for snow. I had the crux for awhile, it was ok, I feel like a 3.5 would be a lot better.


Don't know of any. That would be about a 17% increase in volume over 3.25.

What frame fits 3.5 rear with snow room?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Any true Fatbike frame I'd guess, talking ones that will fit a 650B x 4.8" tyre :skep: When you get to that size though, the weight starts to really become a negative, unless you make it with thinner sidewalls and then you're back to where the plus movement started with too thin sidewalls, IMHO.



SVO said:


> Don't know of any. That would be about a 17% increase in volume over 3.25.
> 
> What frame fits 3.5 rear with snow room?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Any true Fatbike frame I'd guess, talking ones that will fit a 650B x 4.8" tyre :skep: When you get to that size though, the weight starts to really become a negative, unless you make it with thinner sidewalls and then you're back to where the plus movement started with too thin sidewalls, IMHO.


Lynx- I don't own a fatbike but was under the impression that quite a few 26" do not clear a 29x3 (height), let alone a 29x3.25. Is that wrong?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

New Cake Eater review :
"Let’s start with the diameter because that is likely going to be one of the crucial dimensions when people try to fit this on their bike. 785mm is about 30.8″. That means the Cake Eater is about 1/2″ bigger diameter than any other 27.5″ tire."

A quick search did not return a measured outside diameter for one of the 29x3.25 tires on the market. But they are likely very close to the same size. A 3.5 would likely be, according to that reviewer at least, a fit challenge on a 27.5 fat bike.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

SVO said:


> Don't know of any. That would be about a 17% increase in volume over 3.25.
> 
> What frame fits 3.5 rear with snow room?


My Xm Carbon Speed has lots of room for a snowshoe 2xl. It also clears a 29x2.35 crux tire full of kold kutter studs on a 50mm rim at 15 psi. 29x3.5 at less than 10 psi should be easy.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

scandy1 said:


> anyone tires bigger than 29x3.25 out there? looking for something better for snow. I had the crux for awhile, it was ok, I feel like a 3.5 would be a lot better.


I tried the crux in snow last year. It needs a more open tread pattern and taller lugs as well. I never found a way to keep the sealant inside the tires, after I studded them the rear was really bad.

So far the 29x3 Minion DHR/DHRII super tacky combo is far superior. It's early in the season here, I suspect the tires won't do as well once the snow dries out.

Tubeless ready 3.5 buds would be amazing.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I said newer ones, designed to fit the newer 650B FAT tyres and the new XXL 26"x5" tyres, no clue about older 26" based frames.



SVO said:


> Lynx- I don't own a fatbike but was under the impression that quite a few 26" do not clear a 29x3 (height), let alone a 29x3.25. Is that wrong?


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Any true Fatbike frame I'd guess, talking ones that will fit a 650B x 4.8" tyre


Umm, no you actually didn't say the newer frames only. But not important.

Anyone got actual measured dimensions on a Bulldozer vs. Cake Eater or XXL? Or experience putting a Bulldozer on a recent fattie?

That old saying about assumptions...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Original fatbikes were designed to run 650B setup, that's only come around recently in the last couple years, so yeah, "new" ones. But, I ain't arguing if you couldn't understand that from my post..... :skep:



SVO said:


> Umm, no you actually didn't say the newer frames only. But not important.
> 
> Anyone got actual measured dimensions on a Bulldozer vs. Cake Eater or XXL? Or experience putting a Bulldozer on a recent fattie?
> 
> That old saying about assumptions...


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Original fatbikes were designed to run 650B setup, that's only come around recently in the last couple years, so yeah, "new" ones. But, I ain't arguing if you couldn't understand that from my post..... :skep:


Take a break dude. Not playing dumb. Note how I SPECIFICALLY mentioned I don't own a fat bike. Don't know them. Again, u didn't say "designed to", you said "will fit". What is in your brain is not what u wrote.

But I do know some guys who would resent the notion that a "true" fat bike has to fit big 650B.


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## scandy1 (May 2, 2016)

arc said:


> I tried the crux in snow last year. It needs a more open tread pattern and taller lugs as well. I never found a way to keep the sealant inside the tires, after I studded them the rear was really bad.
> 
> So far the 29x3 Minion DHR/DHRII super tacky combo is far superior. It's early in the season here, I suspect the tires won't do as well once the snow dries out.
> 
> Tubeless ready 3.5 buds would be amazing.


Yeah I rode them around on XC ski trails, if the trails started getting very soft theyd dig in pretty easy. I feel like 3.5 would be a good sweet spot for being able to run low enough pressure and do well in some softer conditions. 
a 3.5 would easily fit my bike.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

arc said:


> I tried the crux in snow last year. It needs a more open tread pattern and taller lugs as well. I never found a way to keep the sealant inside the tires, after I studded them the rear was really bad.
> 
> So far the 29x3 Minion DHR/DHRII super tacky combo is far superior. It's early in the season here, I suspect the tires won't do as well once the snow dries out.
> 
> Tubeless ready 3.5 buds would be amazing.


what sux tho is Maxxis is not making the Minions any more right? At least that is what I have heard...


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

I've got a Jones Plus with 29+ 3" tubeless Maxxis Chronicles front and rear.

While they work nicely on single track (and I'm not a super aggressive rider but I do like some speed) they are pretty sluggish on pavement. Jeff Jones told me that they were one of the faster tires out there, but I think he's into a different kind of riding than I am.

I'm going on the Tour Divide again, which is a bit of a gravel grinder. Its not particularly technical, a lot of gravel and variable dirt roads, obviously some mud (you can count on rain on the Tour Divide and some roads go to peanut butter) and a bit of modest single track from time to time, as well as pavement. And some really long distances. 

So I'm thinking the Chronicles are a bit too aggressive. I've noticed the Vee Rubber Speedsters and they seem to have both 3" and 2.8" in 29+... I'm looking to find out how the sidewalls hold up. The Vee Rubber website is really short on details! The Terrene McFly Tough 2.8” is also on the radar- I took the Chronicles on the Divide last year (15psi front, 20 rear), but the slightly narrower tire seems like it won't hurt. If I were to go on the Colorado Trail I'd stick with the Chronicles...

I've got WTB Scraper rims with 45mm bead width. 

Any suggestions/thoughts?


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

Salubrious said:


> I've got a Jones Plus with 29+ 3" tubeless Maxxis Chronicles front and rear.
> 
> While they work nicely on single track (and I'm not a super aggressive rider but I do like some speed) they are pretty sluggish on pavement. Jeff Jones told me that they were one of the faster tires out there, but I think he's into a different kind of riding than I am.
> 
> ...


Vittoria Bombolni 29 x 3 is a pretty fast rolling tire that runs tubeless well. Ive ran them for 2 years on my 29+ fatbike conversion.

Knards roll well as well--not tubeless rated, but they held air fine for me.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Salubrious said:


> I've got a Jones Plus with 29+ 3" tubeless Maxxis Chronicles front and rear.
> 
> While they work nicely on single track (and I'm not a super aggressive rider but I do like some speed) they are pretty sluggish on pavement. Jeff Jones told me that they were one of the faster tires out there, but I think he's into a different kind of riding than I am.
> 
> ...


Tour Divide is a BIG commitment of time and $$ typically- you've done it, I haven't. Seems to me a new light set of wheels with reasonably light/fast rolling but still fairly durable tires would be well justified. You could drop a lot of effective weight.

Custom wheels with Nextie or Light Bicycle carbon hoops in a 35mm internal width + Nobby Nicks 2.6 is the sort of setup I would want on that big beast of a tour, with more gravel and less rock, on such long days/huge vertical in the saddle.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

As far as I've been able to make out, the jury is out on carbon wheels- a lot of people do alright on them and a number of them (in particular, Stan's) have failed on the Divide. It has a way of beating up bicycle parts. So I'm sticking with the WTBs for now- unless Jeff Jones gets his rims in. The thing is, you spend a lot of time miles from nowhere (or maybe just a few feet....) and most often you can see it from where you are otherwise  so parts that get you home are nice even if they are a bit heavier.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> I'm going on the Tour Divide again, which is a bit of a gravel grinder.
> 
> I took the Chronicles on the Divide last year (15psi front, 20 rear),


Why would you take a 3" tire on a dirt road ride?

Even more importantly, why would you then run 3" tires at such high pressures?

The benefit to high volume tires is being able to run low(er) pressures. You aren't, and as such you're effectively just pushing around a lot of added rubber mass.

If you're racing, I can't see a benefit to any tire over 2.4" on that route. Choose a fast rolling tread and run it at reasonable pressures.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

mikesee said:


> Why would you take a 3" tire on a dirt road ride?
> 
> Even more importantly, why would you then run 3" tires at such high pressures?
> 
> ...


I agree with Mikesee, but I wouldn't put 2.4s on a 45mm ID rim- too much sidewall exposure, assuming there are some rocky sections. As far as carbon rims being unproven, I'm going to disagree with you on that one.

In my experience, stans build quality on complete wheels has always been suspect/inconsistent- and even if they were custom-built, the carbon failures I've seen in the last few years have been few, and then folks running way tool little pressure for weight & terrain.

I've spent a lot of time a lot miles from anything too. I avoided carbon for years too- not any more. I'm 200 lbs. Even if you don't go carbon, still worth a narrower alu rim/tire. I've found the 120 TPI Chronicle to roll okay, the 60 TPI is downright terrible. Neither a great choice for that route.

On a multiday route with most gravel/smooth and some tech or sandy segments, I pack a decent hand pump and run more pressure on the former for rolling, drop the PSI for the latter.

Listen to Mikesee- knows his stuff.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Why would you take a 3" tire on a dirt road ride?
> 
> Even more importantly, why would you then run 3" tires at such high pressures?
> 
> ...


All very good comments and questions!

The TDR has a bit of single track and many of the forest roads aren't in the greatest shape! Mud is guaranteed. When I built up the Jones, Jeff Jones was and is adamant that the 29+ size was/is faster even on the road (I don't buy the bit about on the road though). Initially I went with his recommendations of 11psi front and 14 rear and trained with that last year. But on the actual route, loaded with my gear and water (and I weigh about 195) it was obvious the tires needed more air and so I raised the psi a pound at a time and each time I was able to go faster until it got too bumpy.

I was adjusting the tire pressure during the route; usually less air once descending after a pass.

In 2017 like many others I rode a Cutthroat but the IME the Jones is faster on descents and single track (regardless of the pressure) and also in gravel if that gravel is well maintained (and more than once I encountered roads that were being re-graveled on the day I was riding them, which sucks). I also found this last year that on the Jones I was able to ride over passes that I had to HAB with the Cutthroat, despite the latter being lighter.

So the Jones was faster than the Cutty on single track, climbing and descents, but not on the flats or pavement. Go figure- its a good ten pounds heavier than the Cutty.

Comfort is a big deal when you're on a long route; the Jones is one of the most comfortable bikes I've ridden and it proved out that I was able to ride longer which made up a bit for the lighter weight of the Cutty.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> The TDR has a bit of single track


Uh, like less than 1% of the total distance?!

My point is simply that if you're going to ride 2700+ miles, overwhelmingly on gravel roads, it makes sense to choose both tires and pressures suited to that surface.

Your 45mm rims are *much, much* heavier than needed, and they're shod with tires that aren't giving you a real benefit on the overwhelming majority of the route.

if you're touring the route (as most are these days) there's nothing wrong with running overkill for rims and tires, except that you're the motor, and you're working harder to go slower.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

2% is more like it but I'm not disputing your point. I'm not at all convinced that 3" is the way to go, but so far its worked far better than my prior two attempts. So I was hoping I could find something a bit lighter and faster tread than the Chronicles to see if that might work better still. If I can make 100 miles a day then I can hit my goals and I can do that already on the Chronicles. 

I've looked at many carbon rims. Many of them have 28 spokes which means a new Rohloff hub... plus a 29" that's not a plus size will put my bottom bracket a bit lower; I've already scrapped up the cranks as it is.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> 2% is more like it but I'm not disputing your point. I'm not at all convinced that 3" is the way to go, but so far its worked far better than my prior two attempts. So I was hoping I could find something a bit lighter and faster tread than the Chronicles to see if that might work better still. If I can make 100 miles a day then I can hit my goals and I can do that already on the Chronicles.
> 
> I've looked at many carbon rims. Many of them have 28 spokes which means a new Rohloff hub... plus a 29" that's not a plus size will put my bottom bracket a bit lower; I've already scrapped up the cranks as it is.


2%? There are 54 miles of singletrack now?

Bontrager XR2's are both lighter and faster than Chronicles.

There are metric tonnes of carbon rims in 32h. Some of them even worth having.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Salubrious said:


> 2% is more like it but I'm not disputing your point. I'm not at all convinced that 3" is the way to go, but so far its worked far better than my prior two attempts. So I was hoping I could find something a bit lighter and faster tread than the Chronicles to see if that might work better still. If I can make 100 miles a day then I can hit my goals and I can do that already on the Chronicles.
> 
> I've looked at many carbon rims. Many of them have 28 spokes which means a new Rohloff hub... plus a 29" that's not a plus size will put my bottom bracket a bit lower; I've already scrapped up the cranks as it is.


Salu's comments on the 3" tires rolling well with some pressure and the comfort factor, on long hard days (wake & repeat) are spot on. Too many riders discount what they cannot measure easily. Still, 98% road (Wow- I didn't realize) I'm running a narrow-ish rim and something like a Conti Race King 2.2. Even with 225lbs body+gear.

Plenty of quality carbon rims in 32 drill- no one over 175 lbs should run less than 32 3X, IMHO.

The crazy low BB on the Jones is most def an issue. Some riders move to shorter cranks to compensate, which is ass-backwards. The geometry on that frame has u a bit trapped, I can see. Seems with so few potential pedal strike opportunities on that course it could be okay. I borrowed & demoed a bunch of plus bikes, I did not go with the Jones for precisely that reason.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

SVO said:


> Salu's comments on the 3" tires rolling well with some pressure and the comfort factor, on long hard days (wake & repeat) are spot on. Too many riders discount what they cannot measure easily. Still, 98% road (Wow- I didn't realize) I'm running a narrow-ish rim and something like a Conti Race King 2.2. Even with 225lbs body+gear.
> 
> Plenty of quality carbon rims in 32 drill- no one over 175 lbs should run less than 32 3X, IMHO.
> 
> The crazy low BB on the Jones is most def an issue. Some riders move to shorter cranks to compensate, which is ass-backwards. The geometry on that frame has u a bit trapped, I can see. Seems with so few potential pedal strike opportunities on that course it could be okay. I borrowed & demoed a bunch of plus bikes, I did not go with the Jones for precisely that reason.


About 15% pavement and the rest is gravel and 2-track.

People a lot younger than me get away with 2.1" widths and no suspension, but then they are complaining on FB about numb fingers, weak hands and the like for months after the race. Not worth it IMO/IME. When I did the Lava Mountain trail this last year it was mostly ridable; 2017 it was HAB with the smaller tires. That bit is notorious on the route.

Jeff recommends 170 cranks... turns out that optimal cranks, like so many other things like seat height, vary from person to person. I don't mind the 170s, that's about all I can handle with an inseam of only 31". I've seen a lot of people scratch on the TDR with knee problems only a few hundred miles out- which is a common injury if your cranks are too long. For some reason mtbs are supplied with longer cranks, but if you look at the levers involved the knees are the most important. So you can often make more power with a shorter crank. I do slightly better with 165s, but 170s don't cause me knee problems, something that was definitely an issue with the Cutty!

That BB height has had me stymied. But now that I think of it, it is an eccentric- so I'll have to work out the dimensions again; I've got the cranks mounted at 3 o'clock; if I have them at 12 o'clock maybe it'll work out. Not a fan of eccentrics but maybe there's a benefit...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> About 15% pavement and the rest is gravel and 2-track.


It's a road ride. Every few days there's something that catches your attention for about 10 minutes, and then it's back to road grinding.



Salubrious said:


> People a lot younger than me get away with 2.1" widths and no suspension, but then they are complaining on FB about numb fingers, weak hands and the like for months after the race. Not worth it IMO/IME.


Biomechanical problems have almost nothing to do with tire size when hauling the mail on that route. They have to do with overuse, poor setup, weak core, etc...



Salubrious said:


> When I did the Lava Mountain trail this last year it was mostly ridable; 2017 it was HAB with the smaller tires. That bit is notorious on the route.


Lava Mountain is like -- what -- 3 or 4 miles, total?



Salubrious said:


> people scratch on the TDR with knee problems only a few hundred miles out- which is a common injury if your cranks are too long.


It *might* have to do with crank length. But there's almost no proof of that. So many more likely diagnoses here -- overgeared, pushing too hard too early, running flat pedals with zero float, running clipless pedals with poor cleat setup, overpacking their frame bags to the extent that they bulge, which forces knees to splay on each stroke, etc...

29+ tires aren't going to solve any of this.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> It's a road ride. Every few days there's something that catches your attention for about 10 minutes, and then it's back to road grinding.


A matter of taste I suppose. Even out on the Basin its pretty awesome!



> Biomechanical problems have almost nothing to do with tire size when hauling the mail on that route. They have to do with overuse, poor setup, weak core, etc...
> 
> Lava Mountain is like -- what -- 3 or 4 miles, total?
> 
> ...


Agreed  nor do I expect that of them; last year none of that was a problem for me. I just find that the Chronicles are kinda slow although I like them a lot in single-track and how well they wear.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Favorite bike packing tires? Currently have chronicles, have ridden them yet. 29 x3 tires that work well for pave, gravel dirt and a little single track. Thoughts on the XR 2 or bombalonni?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

leeboh said:


> Favorite bike packing tires? Currently have chronicles, have ridden them yet. 29 x3 tires that work well for pave, gravel dirt and a little single track. Thoughts on the XR 2 or bombalonni?


I tried the Bombaloni on the rear of my Krampus, it was cool but packed up with mud pretty quickly. I also ended up snake biting the tire bad enough that I needed to run a tube for the rest of it's life. It was an unfortunate accident but a big rock got kicked up by the front tire at speed and destroyed the rear tire.

It was pretty good overall in the rear, but I did over-power it at times on climbs. (this is all on a trail bike setup and ridden hard, no experience as a bike packing tire and no experience with the XR2.


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## Freddy_G (Jul 27, 2016)

What is the best 29x3.0 trail-tire for riding on wet roots and rocks? (Preferable with a beefy sidewall also )

Used to ride "skinny" 2,3 Minions DD, and they have taken a beating with cuts and scratches. So I don't want something that's too much weaker than that.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Chupas (XR2 Team now) are on sale online at various shops. Improves about the only thing I dislike with the tire, for bikepacking at least.


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

Freddy_G said:


> What is the best 29x3.0 trail-tire for riding on wet roots and rocks? (Preferable with a beefy sidewall also 😀)
> 
> Used to ride "skinny" 2,3 Minions DD, and they have taken a beating with cuts and scratches. So I don't want something that's too much weaker than that.


Might look at the Bontrager XR4 Team Issue. Have seen at least one response on this thread where they experienced sidewall damage, but seemed like a reasonably sturdy tire when I demoed the Full Stache with those front/rear.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Freddy_G said:


> What is the best 29x3.0 trail-tire for riding on wet roots and rocks? (Preferable with a beefy sidewall also )
> 
> Used to ride "skinny" 2,3 Minions DD, and they have taken a beating with cuts and scratches. So I don't want something that's too much weaker than that.


I have 2 totally different tires for the front and rear of my Stache build.
The XR4 is about as beefy as they come for the front, and a Vittoria Bombo for the rear. Hoping they work out for now. :thumbsup:


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## Freddy_G (Jul 27, 2016)

Thanks for info!

I just got delivery of a Full Stache, so first time in many years that I'm not riding Minions 

The SE4, has that one got a different compound compared to XR4? 

There are some places still selling the Minions in 3.0. Might get me a DHF for front and keep a XR4 back. Or do I want the SE4 (for extra protection). Or just screw it and run Minions front and back


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Nah, they use the same compound, just the SE has a bit more robust casing compared and 130g or so more weight. As for grabbing a DHF, I wouldn't, not from all I've read of the XR4 from people who have also ridden the DHF, you've got them already, give them a go. From my past experience with Bontrager tyres and casings, the XR casing should be plenty good enough unless you've got some really nasty, sharp rocks and really like to bash, even then I think they'll hold up from what the XR3 casing has survived on our coral infested trails.



Freddy_G said:


> Thanks for info! I just got delivery of a Full Stache, so first time in many years that I'm not riding Minions
> 
> *The SE4, has that one got a different compound compared to XR4? * There are some places still selling the Minions in 3.0. Might get me a DHF for front and keep a XR4 back. Or do I want the SE4 (for extra protection). Or just screw it and run Minions front and back


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi. Did the 3.25" Duro Crux fit in the v1 Krampus rear?



str8edgMTBMXer said:


> I have been looking at the Duro Crux to put on for this summer....Surly Rabbit Holes on a v1 Krampus. I ride in Central Ohio...same kind of terrain with less elevation...(rode in the Adirondacks 2 years ago...will most likely retire there)
> 
> have been looking for aggressive tires for wet riding, as well as hero dirt, loose stuff...
> 
> I hope they give me a bit of an edge in corners and bushwacking. I will probably keep my Knards for bikepacking though


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## ch1818 (May 29, 2019)

Hi, just wondering if anyone is running an 29x2.6 SE4 or Rekon and what the actual tire width measures. Thx!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

2.6 is not a plus tire IMO. Most are only marginally bigger than a normal 2.4. Plus tires start at 2.8.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

*search engines work*



ch1818 said:


> Hi, just wondering if anyone is running an 29x2.6 SE4 or Rekon and what the actual tire width measures. Thx!


Google is your friend. Search for "29×2.6 SE4 measure". Then hit the Images tab.

Reviews often have the "actual" (hint: good Google search term) width: https://fat-bike.com/2018/07/comparison-of-four-29x2-6-tires/


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## ch1818 (May 29, 2019)

xprmntl said:


> Google is your friend. Search for "29×2.6 SE4 measure". Then hit the Images tab.
> 
> Reviews often have the "actual" (hint: good Google search term) width: https://fat-bike.com/2018/07/comparison-of-four-29x2-6-tires/


Heading in that direction now, thanks for the suggestions!


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Freddy_G said:


> What is the best 29x3.0 trail-tire for riding on wet roots and rocks? (Preferable with a beefy sidewall also )
> 
> Used to ride "skinny" 2,3 Minions DD, and they have taken a beating with cuts and scratches. So I don't want something that's too much weaker than that.


3.0 3C Minions are still on the shelves. Maxxis has not run out of them yet.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Mr. Doom said:


> 3.0 3C Minions are still on the shelves. Maxxis has not run out of them yet.


For riding wet roots and rocks I'd steer pretty much everyone away from the 3.0" Minions. Sketchy.

Which is weird, because I liked Minions in the wet in 2.5". But something was lost in translation when they upsized 'em.

I like Bontrager XR4 much better for those conditions. Still not a proper "wet" tire, but much better than Minions.


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## ch1818 (May 29, 2019)

mikesee said:


> For riding wet roots and rocks I'd steer pretty much everyone away from the 3.0" Minions. Sketchy.
> 
> Which is weird, because I liked Minions in the wet in 2.5". But something was lost in translation when they upsized 'em.
> 
> I like Bontrager XR4 much better for those conditions. Still not a proper "wet" tire, but much better than Minions.


mikesee, As I know you know tires well, what are a couple other front 29 x 3.0's you could recommend for New England all mountain tires? I've been working on fitting my wife's '19 stumpy as close to a plus size ride as possible. So far, after some helpful input from a couple forums here and speaking the guru's at Terrrene Tires I have a 29 x 2.8 Cake Eater filling out the rear triangle. As the CE measures a full 2.6 inflated, and the fork has the clearance for it, I would like to get a full 3" for the front. The XR4 has been high on my list, what else do you like?

P.S. The J5's worked out very well. Thx for your help with those also.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

ch1818 said:


> mikesee, As I know you know tires well, what are a couple other front 29 x 3.0's you could recommend for New England all mountain tires? I've been working on fitting my wife's '19 stumpy as close to a plus size ride as possible. So far, after some helpful input from a couple forums here and speaking the guru's at Terrrene Tires I have a 29 x 2.8 Cake Eater filling out the rear triangle. As the CE measures a full 2.6 inflated, and the fork has the clearance for it, I would like to get a full 3" for the front. The XR4 has been high on my list, what else do you like?
> 
> P.S. The J5's worked out very well. Thx for your help with those also.


If you want traction above all else, choose the XR4 and spend some time fine tuning pressures. 1/4 of a PSI makes a noteworthy difference with that tire.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Unfortunately, XR4, one of the best 29+ trail tire we have currently, has rather poor performance in wet and muddy conditions. I know that high volume plus or fat tires aren't the best for mud but I still looking for improving wet condition performance for my Full Stache. I want to try new WTB Vigilante 29x2.8 but they are so heavy...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Mebaru said:


> Unfortunately, XR4, one of the best 29+ trail tire we have currently, has rather poor performance in wet and muddy conditions.


It's all relative. Go back to a DHF up front and you'll truly know the meaning of 'sketchy' on wet rock and roots.

I agree that we could do better than the XR4 for wet.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Anyone tried compbo of 

F: Rekon 2.8
R: Ikon 2.6

As far as i seen on Maxxs webpage those the widest sizes for both.
I'm considering such setup for dry,rooty,flaty and sandy terrain.
Has anyone seen such a combo, maybe some pics on how they measure on ~32mm rims (internal)


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Placek said:


> Anyone tried compbo of
> F: Rekon 2.8


Rekon exists in 29x2.8?


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Mebaru said:


> Rekon exists in 29x2.8?


Yep. The Rekon+

https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-519-140-rekon-plus


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

twodownzero said:


> Yep. The Rekon+
> https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-519-140-rekon-plus


Thanks. What its actual size and how it compares to similar bontrager tires?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Mebaru said:


> Thanks. What its actual size and how it compares to similar bontrager tires?


Last 7 weeks, i am using the 27.5x2.8 for rear on 40 mm. I just love it. It rolls well and grips well. The size seems honest.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

33red said:


> Last 7 weeks, i am using the 27.5x2.8 for rear on 40 mm. I just love it. It rolls well and grips well. The size seems honest.


What about front.what combo have you chosen?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> What about front.what combo have you chosen?


I bought this bike new, it had 2 Nobby Nic 3.0 but in the past i enjoyed Continentals with many small nobs so i placed an add and day 1 they were traded for 2 allmost new 3.0 Chronicles. I was happy but i did a demo, the bike had smaller tires and i enjoyed the feel so i placed an add and traded my rear Chronicle for that Rekon. Finally i found out the shorter chainstay was making the other bike more playfull. So i choose many small knobs, generally they are more predictable, when they slip they catch back soon enough. After that according to your area the compound makes a difference. My 2 Maxxis are 120 TPI with protection 3c Maxterra.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

33red said:


> I bought this bike new, it had 2 Nobby Nic 3.0 but in the past i enjoyed Continentals with many small nobs so i placed an add and day 1 they were traded for 2 allmost new 3.0 Chronicles. I was happy but i did a demo, the bike had smaller tires and i enjoyed the feel so i placed an add and traded my rear Chronicle for that Rekon. Finally i found out the shorter chainstay was making the other bike more playfull. So i choose many small knobs, generally they are more predictable, when they slip they catch back soon enough. After that according to your area the compound makes a difference. My 2 Maxxis are 120 TPI with protection 3c Maxterra.


Many small knobs has a lot of advantages (remember having Kenda SB8 some time ago)
So you have Rekon on front also?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> Many small knobs has a lot of advantages (remember having Kenda SB8 some time ago)
> So you have Rekon on front also?


Now 3.0 Chronicle front, 2.8 Rekon rear. I got lucky i traded for 2 Chronicles, later traded for 1 Rekon, tested good tires no money out. I am allways planning a purchase ahead, maybe i will see a deal? I prefer buying when i do not need it.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

So more aggressive tire on rear ?
Can You share some pics?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> So more aggressive tire on rear ?
> Can You share some pics?


You can see the 2 on their page.
I like to climb.
https://www.maxxis.com/tires/bicycle/mountain?typeId=135&styleId=all


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

So i'm looking for 2.6 2.8 tire combo.
Dry,flat rooty and fast.
Anything but wtb ranger,maxxis chronicle,?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> So i'm looking for 2.6 2.8 tire combo.
> Dry,flat rooty and fast.
> Anything but wtb ranger,maxxis chronicle,?


Maybe that will help you.
Last year i was on 29 with thin rims and i liked it.
I have been on 27.5 last 3.5 months and my rims are 40 mm.
I bought a bike with 2 3.0 nobby nics. In the past i enjoyed many small knobs so day 1 i traded for 3.0 Chronicles, happy, no problems.
After doing a demo i opted for smaller tire, was lucky traded my rear for a 2.8 Rekon. Here with wet roots i love that combo, fast and enough grip.
I would trust 2 chronicles if they offer the size you are looking for.
I just started playing in expert trails. I know my tires, i got used to that bike and when they slip they grip fast enough. When i fall it is my fault. I guess you know with proper rims and proper PSI we get both, fast and grip.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

33red said:


> Maybe that will help you.
> Last year i was on 29 with thin rims and i liked it.
> I have been on 27.5 last 3.5 months and my rims are 40 mm.
> I bought a bike with 2 3.0 nobby nics. In the past i enjoyed many small knobs so day 1 i traded for 3.0 Chronicles, happy, no problems.
> ...


Thank You for sharing.
Chronicles were my first shot but been a bit confused seeing them mainly on tourist/fat bikes.
Secondly i always used combos with mixed models than a qurstion pops up.

What will i miss when having 
Chronicle /Chronicle both 2.8
Fr:Rekon/R:Rekon both 2.8

Would front Rexon decrease speed a lot and is worth of justyfying grip?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> Thank You for sharing.
> Chronicles were my first shot but been a bit confused seeing them mainly on tourist/fat bikes.
> Secondly i always used combos with mixed models than a qurstion pops up.
> 
> ...


I think a good match is important. How wide are your rims?
Chronicles and Rekons are both fast with enough grip.
I like my BB high to avoid hitting rocks.
My bike came on 2 x 3.0 on 40 mm so i try to stay close to that.
I went from 175 arms to 165 arms and very happy, less pedal strikes.
So it comes down to what size were the original tires?
Are there rocks wehere you ride?
Now their site offer 3.0 Chronicles and 2.8 Rekons so the rekons might be .5 in lower(more acceleration).
I think with a suspension well dialed and proper PSI you will be satisfied with any combo that includes these tires.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

I ended up with some 29x2.6 WTB Trail Boss tires that came stock on a new bike. While not a real plus sized tire, they do seem to work well on Sun Ringle Mulefut 50's. These are i45 I believe.

Not a great picture, but on the left it's on an i30 rim and on the right is the i45. It measures 2.6" on both rims. They are noticeably smaller in diameter than the 3.0 Chronicles I had on there before. I lost about 10mm of BB height.

















I'll probably keeps these on for the summer and try some 2.8" studded Cake Eaters for winter.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

stm32disco said:


> I ended up with some 29x2.6 WTB Trail Boss tires that came stock on a new bike. While not a real plus sized tire, they do seem to work well on Sun Ringle Mulefut 50's. These are i45 I believe.
> 
> Not a great picture, but on the left it's on an i30 rim and on the right is the i45. It measures 2.6" on both rims. They are noticeably smaller in diameter than the 3.0 Chronicles I had on there before. I lost about 10mm of BB height.
> 
> ...


Just saying i had 175 arms, switched to 165 just love that for where i ride. A few $$ big improvement if you hesitate.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

33red said:


> I think a good match is important. How wide are your rims?
> Chronicles and Rekons are both fast with enough grip.
> I like my BB high to avoid hitting rocks.
> My bike came on 2 x 3.0 on 40 mm so i try to stay close to that.
> ...


And here we are.
For past few days i've been comparing and researching.
My rims are LB 31,8mm.

As my local trails are flat,rooty and dry than thought to grab Rekons combo 2x2.8.

For real Enduro trails when you can expect unexpected (stones,wet,mud and all crap) pick DHF 3.0 and DHR II 3.0 - so in general iconic combo which seems to let me survive all conditions.


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

Count me a big fan of the XR2 after today's inaugural day of putting a couple dozen singletrack miles on mine. Seem to handle everything really well. Roots, rocks, gravel, sand. I wouldn't have thought this given its small knobs, but I'm thinking it'll do really well in the loose/sandy conditions we get on some trails around here.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

GlowBoy said:


> Count me a big fan of the XR2 after today's inaugural day of putting a couple dozen singletrack miles on mine. Seem to handle everything really well. Roots, rocks, gravel, sand. I wouldn't have thought this given its small knobs, but I'm thinking it'll do really well in the loose/sandy conditions we get on some trails around here.


i think the xr2 is the best "summer" tire we have in 29x3.0

it could use a few competitors tho! i am sad most tire manufacturers are downsizing. we need more 29x3-3.25 tires!


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## Scandy101 (Feb 10, 2015)

Looking for a new set of 3.0’s. I’ve run chronicles front and rear, chupa’s,
And the duro crux. Crux has probably been my favorite, but a little too slow rolling.

I’m looking for fast rolling, good stability, won’t get pinged offline easily, as in straight lining through a chunky section the front won’t skip out on you, braking isn’t a concern at all since every tire I’ve considered is good enough in that regard, and pretty good cornering grip, mostly for dry loose, or dusty conditions.

Thinking a 3c dhr2 front chronicle rear. Or maybe an xr4 front xr3 or 2 rear? I think I like the looks of the xr4 as a front, seems a bit faster rolling with similar cornering to a dhr2. Though I’m a little worried about how round it looks, typically those tires get knocked off line easier in the terrain I ride. 

Any advice?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Just noticed 3" Minions are back on the website. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-540-140-minion-dhf-plus

They're also back in stock and available for purchase. Last I knew these were discontinued, good to see they're back.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Just noticed 3" Minions are back on the website. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-540-140-minion-dhf-plus
> 
> They're also back in stock and available for purchase. Last I knew these were discontinued, good to see they're back.


that quite possibly might be the best news I have received all summer!!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Just noticed 3" Minions are back on the website. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-540-140-minion-dhf-plus
> 
> They're also back in stock and available for purchase. Last I knew these were discontinued, good to see they're back.


They haven't sold through at the distribution level yet. But they are still one closeout there.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

mikesee said:


> They haven't sold through at the distribution level yet. But they are still one closeout there.


Oh, bummer.

At one point they were off the website completely. I got excited when the info popped back up on the website.

Common Maxxis, we need more 3" options!!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Common Maxxis, we need more 3" options!!
including Rekon, pretty please.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

What do you guys carry for a spare 29+ tube? I run 29x3 tubeless, but like to carry a spare tube especially on longer rides now that I'm in the desert. The stock Krampus tubes though are chunky to say the least. Can you use a 29x2.4-2.6 as a backup (i.e. will it stretch enough to get you home worst case scenario?).


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

You could literally use any tube in a pinch. Even a 26" tube would expand enough to fill a 29er tire. Personally i carry regular 29er tube.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

The challenge w/ spare tubes in a desert environment, if you're riding there for prolonged periods, is your tire will likely have MANY thorns and cactus spikes stuck in casing. So you face either a tedious 10-30 minute effort to remove every thorn before putting in the new tube, or risk immediate puncture during inflation. 
One option is to carry a tube with sealant in it. That makes your big bukly tube even bigger and bulkier.
A tire plug style tubeless repair kit is far more useful and much smaller. If you don't already have one of those, that's the first thing I'd do. Then you can decide to also carry a spare tube . . . or not. I literally cannot remember the last time I used a tube . . . maybe 6 or 8 years? If your sealant hasn't dried up, and you carry a plug kit, you can deal with the vast majority of tire issues.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

InertiaMan said:


> The challenge w/ spare tubes in a desert environment, if you're riding there for prolonged periods, is your tire will likely have MANY thorns and cactus spikes stuck in casing. So you face either a tedious 10-30 minute effort to remove every thorn before putting in the new tube, or risk immediate puncture during inflation.
> One option is to carry a tube with sealant in it. That makes your big bukly tube even bigger and bulkier.
> A tire plug style tubeless repair kit is far more useful and much smaller. If you don't already have one of those, that's the first thing I'd do. Then you can decide to also carry a spare tube . . . or not. I literally cannot remember the last time I used a tube . . . maybe 6 or 8 years? If your sealant hasn't dried up, and you carry a plug kit, you can deal with the vast majority of tire issues.


Yeah for sure, I carry a plug kit and refresh sealant fairly often. I guess I'm old school and still like the extra insurance of a backup tube as a last resort...


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

I carry a regular 29x2.4" tube ICE. But if you want a true 29+ tube I think these may be a better option than the Surly.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...lcyAmIEFjY2Vzc29yaWVzOjE6MTE6Y2NDYXQxMDA0NjE=


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Back in 26er days, I would run thornproof tubes - with slime sealant in them. They'd last a year or so - then finally give up the ghost out on the trail.
And yes, it takes about 30 minutes to scrape/pull/whatev all the thorns out of the tire so I could put in my flimsy regular inner tube and have some hope of making it home.
I still carry a regular tube (29er) just in case, and have used it a few times - after clearing all the sealant and etc out of the tire.


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## 2wTrekr (Oct 1, 2015)

*Per: 29x3, spare tubes*



loren90 said:


> What do you guys carry for a spare 29+ tube? I run 29x3 tubeless, but like to carry a spare tube especially on longer rides now that I'm in the desert. The stock Krampus tubes though are chunky to say the least. Can you use a 29x2.4-2.6 as a backup (i.e. will it stretch enough to get you home worst case scenario?).


Hi, as someone commented, you should be fine with the tube option you mentioned, as a spare/backup, for your 29x3 tires. I've even heard of fatbikers in cold areas (Alaska I think), using standard 26x2.5 tubes in their 26x4 fat tires. as spares if not 'daily drivers' ... one thing I would do is to add a sealant (Slime, etc.) to the inside of the tube. The standard amount to add for a 26er is @ 4oz. ... so, maybe 6oz or so would work for a 29x3 ... just don't want to overload it, but add enough that it will work to seal a puncture. Slime bottles include a plastic Schrader valve tool, though it's best to have a metal one on hand, because the valve 'cores' can be tight, when trying to unthread/remove them, to add the sealant.

Especially in the desert, where goathead thorns/punctures might be a problem, gotta do what you can to prevent them... in case you'd ever need to use a tube, in addition to the seal-filled tube, you could also add a tire-liner (Tuffy/etc), in the 29x3 option.


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## rushman3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Has anyone mounted Cake Eaters 29 x 2.8's on 35 id rims?

If so, how wide did they measure out to.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

rushman3 said:


> Has anyone mounted Cake Eaters 29 x 2.8's on 35 id rims?
> 
> If so, how wide did they measure out to.


Yep. Even fully stretched after ~100 miles of dirt mine were still just a hair under 2.6" casing width.


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## jimbslim (Feb 5, 2011)

Stahr_Nut said:


> I carry a regular 29x2.4" tube ICE. But if you want a true 29+ tube I think these may be a better option than the Surly.
> 
> https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...lcyAmIEFjY2Vzc29yaWVzOjE6MTE6Y2NDYXQxMDA0NjE=


The lightweight option 29x3 tube @ 110g
www.tubolito.com


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

deleted.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Here's a few more data points for 29x3.0 tire/rims combos. All three tires were measured after sitting for about a week on Nextie Jungle Fox rims which are 45mm internal width and all were measured at 12 psi on my Meiser 0-15 psi Accu-gage .

WTB Ranger: 2.904" (73.76mm) at the casing, 2.964" (75.29mm) at the sideknobs.

Vittoria Bomboloni: 2.896" (73.56mm) at the casing, 2.919" (74.14mm) at the sideknobs.

Bontrager Chupacabra (pre-XR2): 3.068" (77.93mm) at the casing. Casing was wider than the sideknobs on a rim of this width.


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## rda (Jan 8, 2014)

just got a full stache that has the xr4 tires. my other bikes are a mukluk that i ride year round with 4.8 inch jumbo jims and a pony rustler with 27.5 x 3 tires on it. been a while but i think its a wtb ranger in the rear and high roller front. anyway, right off the bat i noticed the stache is much harder to pedal and maintain speed on. even going downhill it doesn't roll as fast as my other bikes. i did find a chupacabra and have installed it on the rear, haven't been able to test it yet, but hoping it helps. i have read that the chupa might not hold up as well as other tires. i do a lot of back country stuff in the midwest so not always real rocky unless in KY or some parts of southern IN. will chupa be a good choice? looking for a good compromise in rolling resistance, traction and durability.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

rda said:


> just got a full stache,,, looking for a good compromise in rolling resistance, traction and durability.


My experience is in 27 but the Rekon 2.8 (rear) was great for me even climbing wet roots (on 40 mm rim). I read that it was supposed to be available in 29 this Jan. Some are happy with it rear some enjoy 2.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Can't wait for Rekon+ 29 - just checked all EU sites but nothing?
Anyone was lucky ?


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Checked here

DC https://www.jacksbikes.com/maxxis-rekon-dc/exo-/tr.aspx
3C https://www.jacksbikes.com/maxxis-rekon-3ct/exo-/tr-126961.aspx

and load time is 1,5 week
Lucky who stays in US


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I had the 3c and at this price it looks like the best price on the planet.
I would buy at least 1.


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## ecooke21 (Aug 18, 2007)

can anyone recommend a tan wall 29x2.8 or 29x3 tire for trail riding on my karate monkey?


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## SuperUltraKel (Sep 18, 2018)

Just want to pass on a great deal. Merlin Cycles has the DHF 29x3.0 dual compounds on sale for $50. Just picked one up for a rear tire and it came in less than a week  https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/maxxis-minion-dhf-tr-exo-folding-mtb-tyre-108408.html


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Guy.Ford said:


> Seems the beloved Maxxis Chronicle is being discontinued, anyone hear about this? I'm new to the 29+ thing, just purchased a wheelset for my fatbike, but I thought this tire was well liked and sold well, guess I should stock up.
> 
> It's missing from the Maxxis 2020 bicycle catalog
> View attachment 1311395


The Chronicle was dropped over a year ago.....and it wasn't that great a tire.
Same with the 29 x 3 Minions.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Anyone tried Chaoyang Big Daddy tires? CHAOYANG TIRES-BIG DADDY


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

Mebaru said:


> Anyone tried Chaoyang Big Daddy tires? CHAOYANG TIRES-BIG DADDY


All wire bead for that Big Daddy model?? Maybe I'm a tire snob, but I honestly don't remember the last wire bead tire I used...


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

billj121 said:


> All wire bead for that Big Daddy model?? Maybe I'm a tire snob, but I honestly don't remember the last wire bead tire I used...


Thats what I was thinking. I suspect they are very few people running 39 x 3.0 tires that are interested in a wire bead tire.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Mebaru said:


> Anyone tried Chaoyang Big Daddy tires? CHAOYANG TIRES-BIG DADDY


Those are just generic Panaracer Fat B Nimble/Origin 8 Tsunami tires.

More like a 2.6 on 35mm internal rims. Sidewalls are pretty fragile. I have one Panaracer (with a cut sidewall) & 1 Origin 8 on my bikepacker. They're decent tires.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

1 cog frog said:


> Those are just generic Panaracer Fat B Nimble/Origin 8 Tsunami tires.


Indeed, the thread looks identical. Regarding to not being true to size (Chaoyang, not Panaracer) - have you tried them or it's just a guess?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Mebaru said:


> Indeed, the thread looks identical. Regarding to not being true to size (Chaoyang, not Panaracer) - have you tried them or it's just a guess?


I've ridden the 29 x 3" Fat B Nimble. Very light, very fragile. Best as a front tire.

On a 40mm rim it'll stretch to over 2.7", but I don't think it ever got to 2.8".

I still have one here -- with folding bead -- collecting dust if anyone wants it. Cheap.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Mebaru said:


> Indeed, the thread looks identical. Regarding to not being true to size (Chaoyang, not Panaracer) - have you tried them or it's just a guess?


I was referring to the Panaracer & Origin 8 specifically. I can't imagine they came from different molds entirely, but it's possible. No experience with the Chaoyang tires.

Agree with Mikesee's comments below as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

I know this isn't a true Plus tire, but anyone else notice Vittoria has added a cheap low-TPI version of the 2.6 Mezcal? The price for the "regular" 120tpi version is $63.99, but they've also added a 26tpi wire-bead version ... for $28.99! Neither one is currently available, but the cheap one wasn't listed when I bought my 2.35 last fall. Yes, the cheapie is half a pound heavier and not tubeless ready, so not for everyone or even most riders, but at that price I might not care.

https://www.vittoria.com/us/mezcal-cross-country.html

I do think this tire is worth discussing despite being a little on the small side, since it is by far the fastest near-29+ tire with real tread that you can buy. I have the 2.35 on my Oregon bike, and I'm always impressed how fast it rolls on pavement. I rode it on semi-muddy trails a couple weeks ago and it still hung on surprisingly well, even on some slick climbs. Really considering the 2.6 for the rear of my Minnesota bike as well, since I commute, ride _to_ the trails, and ride _on_ the trails with it.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

GlowBoy said:


> I know this isn't a true Plus tire, but anyone else notice Vittoria has added a cheap low-TPI version of the 2.6 Mezcal? The price for the "regular" 120tpi version is $63.99, but they've also added a 26tpi wire-bead version ... for $28.99! Neither one is currently available, but the cheap one wasn't listed when I bought my 2.35 last fall. Yes, the cheapie is half a pound heavier and not tubeless ready, so not for everyone or even most riders, but at that price I might not care.
> 
> https://www.vittoria.com/us/mezcal-cross-country.html
> 
> I do think this tire is worth discussing despite being a little on the small side, since it is by far the fastest near-29+ tire with real tread that you can buy. I have the 2.35 on my Oregon bike, and I'm always impressed how fast it rolls on pavement. I rode it on semi-muddy trails a couple weeks ago and it still hung on surprisingly well, even on some slick climbs. Really considering the 2.6 for the rear of my Minnesota bike as well, since I commute, ride _to_ the trails, and ride _on_ the trails with it.


I understand your view, for me tubeless ready i do not care for but on rear is it good to climb on wet rocks and wet roots? I am sure it is fast i almost bought 1 but for rear i realy enjoy a Rekon 3c in 27.5x2.8, it rolls well and climbs great. It is now available in 29.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

*29x3.00 Grifter or Hookworm...which one rolls faster/has lower rolling resistance?*

Need some opinions/recomendations please...looking the lowest rolling resistance possible and have it narrowed down to two possibilities:

Maxxis Hookworm 29x2.50 63-622
and 
Maxxis Grifter 29x2.50 64-622

I know there are faster rolling and larger OD tires but the two above are as large as I can go on the diameter...trying to get an overall tall gear with an electric rear hub motor as well as low rolling resistance.

Very similar construction...both 60 TPI, 65 psi, single compound, wire bead, etc...tread pattern and weight are the big differences I can find and I am not worried about the weight.

Which one would you pick for fast rolling/low rolling resistance and why?

Thanks


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Bullfrog123 said:


> Need some opinions/recomendations please...looking the lowest rolling resistance possible and have it narrowed down to two possibilities:
> 
> Maxxis Hookworm 29x2.50 63-622
> and
> ...


We make personal decisions so it depends on priorities, budget etc...
Are we talking front? Rear?
I might use the largest Rekon that fits but in 2 or 3c.
Is it usualy dry?


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

33red said:


> We make personal decisions so it depends on priorities, budget etc...
> Are we talking front? Rear?
> I might use the largest Rekon that fits but in 2 or 3c.
> Is it usualy dry?


The Grifter/Hookworm question is for both front and rear BUT it will be on pavement only and in a straight line...just to see how fast I can get this bike to go on electric power only (48v battery with a 12T MAC motor from EM3ev in China).

Just FYI, I am running a 29x3.00 DHF/DHR II combo on my pedal only bike and I like them a lot for my off road riding. I would not call them "fast rolling" but they work great for my requirements .

Thanks


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

Bullfrog123 said:


> Just FYI, I am running a 29x3.00 DHF/DHR II combo on my pedal only bike and I like them a lot for my off road riding. I would not call them "fast rolling" but they work great for my requirements .
> Thanks


Hoping you can provide some pictures of what you are riding and perhaps how the DHF/DHR II combo perform in various conditions to include hardpack, rock or wet? I travel for work and take my bike to ride trails all over MO, AR and OK. I always ride alone on unfamiliar rocky trails and feel I have to tiptoe around on my Fast Rolling/Light WTB Ranger 29x3.0 tires. I am running a Vassago JabberWocky with rigid Odis fork and want something that rolls halfway decent, can smash through rocks, and just be reliable.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

kustomz....I have an old flip phone so no pics but I have tried a bunch of tires and for riding in Florida where it is sandy, the width/footprint is about all that matters. But I have ridden around Birmingham, AL at Oak Mountain and Anniston at Coldwater...both are Rocky and have some serious hard pack clay that when dry is about like a rock. Cheaha State Park in Alabama is the same...I ride from the State Park entrance along the ridge line as often as I can get up there. Everybody should do it at least once. 

IMO the DHF front and DHRII rear are the best combo available if you ride off road and want to cover all kinds of terrain and do well on everything. The 60 TPI is a little tougher than the 120 TPI casing and I like the Dual compound since it will last a little longer than the other compounds but it will not stick as good on rocks as the softer compounds. I run the 60 TPI, Dual Compound, EXO 27.5x2.8" in both the DHF and DHR II. 

If you are running 29" rims, I'd go with the 29x3.00 DHF front and DHRII rear with 60 TPI, Dual Compound, EXO.

Those not running electric assist or an electric motor, might want to go a little more narrow...I am running a BBSHD motor, 28 Lekkie chain ring, 22T White Industries freewheel, and a 52v/14s battery. I rarely pedal on this bike. Top speed is around 18 mph and the bike started as a Mongoose Terrex from Walmart...steel frame hardtail. Now has a SR Suntour Raidon Air Fork and Shimano 7000 series hydraulic disc brakes with a 180 mm rotor on the front and a 203 mm rotor on the rear. Would have gone 203 mm on the front but Suntour recommends no larger than 180 mm for the Raidon fork.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Bullfrog123 said:


> IMO the DHF front and DHRII rear are the best combo available if you ride off road and want to cover all kinds of terrain and do well on everything.


From my experience best all-around tires are XR4 (or SE4 if you want a durable tire for rock riding). 29x3" DHF/DHR are awful on wet and mud, good on loam but overkill for hardpack.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

And where I ride the DHF/DHR II are great for wet/mud. I agree the DHR II/DHF "Dual" compound can be a little slippery on wet rocks but what isn't?

No tire is going to be great for everything...it is just a matter of where you want to compromise. Softer rubber sticks better everywhere but it wears faster and has more rolling resistance. Low tread depth works better some places and deep tread works better other places. Lower TPI is stronger and tougher but not as compliant as high TPI. Perfect example is rider A's perfect tire is totally different than rider B's perfect tire and it may be because they just ride in different conditions and would actually like the same tire on the same trail. 

One factor we haven't mentioned is pressure...I run 17 psi in the DHF 27.5x2.8 and 15 psi in the DHR II 27.5x2.8 and I weigh about 210 lbs ready to ride. I try to go as low as possible without getting rim strikes on roots/rocks...especially on the rear since I am riding a hardtail and my rear tire is the only "suspension" I have.

I'd run a lot higher pressure if I wasn't running the BBSHD since rolling resistance goes way up with the low pressures. 

There are so many variables when it comes to the "Best" tire...only you can decide what is best for you.

One option is to look and see what the winning pros are using on bikes that are used similar to the way you plan to use yours. That is how I came up with the DHF/DHR II combo for my bike BUT there are drastically different requirements for a Downhill bike on a soft sandy course than a cross country bike on hard pack so it is all up to you.

The only answer that is right every time is "It Depends" .


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Bullfrog123 said:


> One option is to look and see what the winning pros are using on bikes that are used similar to the way you plan to use yours. That is how I came up with the DHF/DHR II combo for my bike BUT there are drastically different requirements for a Downhill bike on a soft sandy course than a cross country bike on hard pack so it is all up to you.


In reality there's a big difference between 29+ DHF/DHR and regular 29x2.3" or 29x2.5 which are used the most. You might think it should work the same but it doesn't work as good as expected. It's not my only opinion, if you google this forum you will find a lot of complaints about 29+ version of DHF/DHR. One of possible reason is a bad design: Maxxis probably just "scaled" the downhill tire instead of design it specifically for 29+ usage.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

DHR II 29x3.00 works great for me.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Bullfrog123 said:


> DHR II 29x3.00 works great for me.


Good for you but have you tried other tires?  I tried and found that XR4/SE4 is overall better.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

While I appreciate people taking the time to make recommendations, this thread really has become quite the mess! This is supposed to be "29+ tire choices," while there is also a thread for "27.5+ Tires." Opinions from those running 27.5+ are like apples to oranges, still fruit, but quite different. My OCD is on overload, but I think I'll get by!


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

I have not tried the XR4 yet...any idea on the tread depth when it is new for a 29x3.00 size? 

Or do you know if they come on any Trek bikes? I can stop by the Trek store and check them out.

Thanks


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## makkot (Mar 10, 2017)

Bullfrog123 said:


> I have not tried the XR4 yet...any idea on the tread depth when it is new for a 29x3.00 size?
> 
> Or do you know if they come on any Trek bikes? I can stop by the Trek store and check them out.
> 
> Thanks


Im using them (XR4) since last year (2019). they are aggressive. I had knard and vittoria Bomboloni before the XR4, and the latest is the most aggressive and less fast rolling.

Also the less soft in terms of pillow effect.
But knard and bomboloni had less control and durability.

See some pictures of Bomboloni and XR4:


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

I've got a Foes Mutz and I'm trying to find out if I can fit a 29x3 wheel on my rear end, I measured from the center of the Axel to my to frame points for the radius if I double it it's a diameter of 768.35mm, I am leaning to a WTB Scraper I45 on hope Pro 4 fatsnow hub's. From some poking around it seems like a Vittoria Bomboloni might work? do I have any additional options that squeeze in under 768mm overall diameter for my Mutz on this rim dimension??

I've got money burning a hole in my pocket and I'd like a 29x3 wheelset but don't want to end up with rubber that won't fit. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

JonnyB76 said:


> I've got a Foes Mutz and I'm trying to find out if I can fit a 29x3 wheel on my rear end, I measured from the center of the Axel to my to frame points for the radius if I double it it's a diameter of 768.35mm, I am leaning to a WTB Scraper I45 on hope Pro 4 fatsnow hub's. From some poking around it seems like a Vittoria Bomboloni might work? do I have any additional options that squeeze in under 768mm overall diameter for my Mutz on this rim dimension??
> 
> I've got money burning a hole in my pocket and I'd like a 29x3 wheelset but don't want to end up with rubber that won't fit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Maxxis DHR II 29 x 3.0 OD = 769 mm


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

JonnyB76 said:


> I've got a Foes Mutz and I'm trying to find out if I can fit a 29x3 wheel on my rear end, I measured from the center of the Axel to my to frame points for the radius if I double it it's a diameter of 768.35mm, I am leaning to a WTB Scraper I45 on hope Pro 4 fatsnow hub's. From some poking around it seems like a Vittoria Bomboloni might work? do I have any additional options that squeeze in under 768mm overall diameter for my Mutz on this rim dimension??
> 
> I've got money burning a hole in my pocket and I'd like a 29x3 wheelset but don't want to end up with rubber that won't fit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


My Vittoria Bomboloni measures 754mm diameter on a 45mm internal width Nextie Jungle Fox rim.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Stahr_Nut said:


> My Vittoria Bomboloni measures 754mm diameter on a 45mm internal width Nextie Jungle Fox rim.


Kick Ass for the confirmation! How do you like the Bomboloni?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

JonnyB76 said:


> I've got a Foes Mutz and I'm trying to find out if I can fit a 29x3 wheel on my rear end, I measured from the center of the Axel to my to frame points for the radius if I double it it's a diameter of 768.35mm, I am leaning to a WTB Scraper I45 on hope Pro 4 fatsnow hub's. From some poking around it seems like a Vittoria Bomboloni might work? do I have any additional options that squeeze in under 768mm overall diameter for my Mutz on this rim dimension??
> 
> I've got money burning a hole in my pocket and I'd like a 29x3 wheelset but don't want to end up with rubber that won't fit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


To each his own but if I'm looking for typical trail riding on 3" tires I'm getting a 32-35mm internal rim. Maybe 40mm if I'm 230+ lbs. That i45/3" ratio is more for sand & snow IMHO- seems the stock wheels would cover that better.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

Concur with SVO...I wouldn't go over about 40mm internal width. It starts to flatten out the tire profile. The more rounded the tire is, the easier it is to tip it over to start turning left/right. All depends on what you want.

For what it is worth...if you are riding off road, I'd go with a Maxxis DHR II. If you are riding harder surfaces more...then the Bamboloni might be better. Again...just depends on your circumstances.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Bullfrog123 said:


> Concur with SVO...I wouldn't go over about 40mm internal width. It starts to flatten out the tire profile. The more rounded the tire is, the easier it is to tip it over to start turning left/right. All depends on what you want.


I'm 5'10" 260lb defensive tackle, I also survived a 3 year battle with cancer and lost 40% of my lung capacity in the process, I will never be fast. What are your recommendations for my slow broken Clydesdale scenario?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

JonnyB76 said:


> I'm 5'10" 260lb defensive tackle, I also survived a 3 year battle with cancer and lost 40% of my lung capacity in the process, I will never be fast. What are your recommendations for my slow broken Clydesdale scenario?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


40mm plus Bombo should be swell and roll pretty well. Bombo sidewalls are fairly stout too- good fit for your weight. Mess around with tire pressures to find your Goldilocks spot.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

SVO said:


> 40mm plus Bombo should be swell and roll pretty well. Bombo sidewalls are fairly stout too- good fit for your weight. Mess around with tire pressures to find your Goldilocks spot.


There going on a Mutz with 140mm travel at both ends, I'm pretty sure it won't need a lot of hunting for a sweet spot pressure wise thanks I'll take a look for a reasonable priced alloy 40mm 29" hoops!

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated!! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

I am running my 29x3 tire on a Velocity Dually rim that is 39mm internal width.

Here is a link to the rim: Velocity - Dually - 29"

I paid less than $100 for mine so shop around if you decide to get one.


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## SVO (May 25, 2005)

JonnyB76 said:


> There going on a Mutz with 140mm travel at both ends, I'm pretty sure it won't need a lot of hunting for a sweet spot pressure wise thanks I'll take a look for a reasonable priced alloy 40mm 29" hoops!
> 
> Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated!!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Right- still a balance between grip, roll & rim strike. Scraper comes in i40 I beleive.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

SVO said:


> Right- still a balance between grip, roll & rim strike. Scraper comes in i40 I beleive.


Yes it does, thanks guys! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

Just a heads up. Universal cycles has 29 x 3 dirt wizards for half off. This is the 60tpi version which comes in at around 1100g. Looks like a killer front to run with xr4 out back, but I’m curious how others have run them and do they fit in a bluto?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Brad Pitted said:


> Just a heads up. Universal cycles has 29 x 3 dirt wizards for half off. This is the 60tpi version which comes in at around 1100g. Looks like a killer front to run with xr4 out back, but I'm curious how others have run them and do they fit in a bluto?


Appreciate the heads up! BTW, that's the 120tpi that's half off but you have the correct weight. I think this tire fits in most forks. It's a great front tire that I haven't used in a long time because the beads on the first batches were far too loose and didn't stay on my rim - and I was using their (Surly's) rim they designed for that tire. Hopefully they are better now because I just ordered one.


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

yogiprophet said:


> Appreciate the heads up! BTW, that's the 120tpi that's half off but you have the correct weight. I think this tire fits in most forks. It's a great front tire that I haven't used in a long time because the beads on the first batches were far too loose and didn't stay on my rim - and I was using their (Surly's) rim they designed for that tire. Hopefully they are better now because I just ordered one.


Ah, yes, sorry for the misinfo. My eyes were blurry from a plus tire shopping spree. Got two dirt wizards, a pair of xr4s and one of the last 3 inch DHFs, all for a wheelset that hasn't been built yet!


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

You guys know of any tires that are actually over 3" but less than 3.8" and not made by Vee Tire Co. besides the Duro Crux and the Fat-B-Nimble? 

The Fat-B-Nimble is really 3" IMO and I have a Crux ordered. Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything when researching high volume tires .

For what it is worth, I have had several "Vee" tires either come apart and/or not last very long. A Maxxis FBR 27.5x3.8 rubs on my frame...I have 27.5" and 29" rims I can use so either diameter is OK.

Thanks


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Brad Pitted said:


> Ah, yes, sorry for the misinfo. My eyes were blurry from a plus tire shopping spree. Got two dirt wizards, a pair of xr4s and one of the last 3 inch DHFs, all for a wheelset that hasn't been built yet!


The XR4 rear and DW/DHF front will make a perfectly meaty tire combo!


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

Vee makes the 29 x 3.25 Bulldozer. On my i40 KOM's they measure right at 80 mm 
wide.

mike


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## alex_alex (Oct 30, 2020)

Would it be possible to put maxxis griffter 29x2.5 on a 20mm wide rim?


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## alex_alex (Oct 30, 2020)

Would it be possible to put maxxis griffter 29x2.5 
64x622 on a 20mm wide rim?


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

alex_alex said:


> Would it be possible to put maxxis griffter 29x2.5 on a 20mm wide rim?


Physically possible? Certainly. But do you want that shorter/narrower profile on the tire? Or are you just jonesin' for wider than what was on that 20mm wide rim?

Couldn't hurt to try. YMMV.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

i've got a brand new 29x3.0 XR2 and NOS Chupacabra I'm looking to get rid of. I'll sell as a pair if anyone is interested.


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## alex_alex (Oct 30, 2020)

wadester said:


> Physically possible? Certainly. But do you want that shorter/narrower profile on the tire? Or are you just jonesin' for wider than what was on that 20mm wide rim?
> 
> Couldn't hurt to try. YMMV.


want it for "aesthetics" because I've been wanting to put a griffter on my 29 "for a long time, I know there is a 29x2.0 griffter but I don't like it.
I don't know what problems could I have ?, accident? undercut? is there a high chance of that happening?


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

alex_alex said:


> I don't know what problems could I have ?, accident? undercut? is there a high chance of that happening?


Back "when" I would run up to a true 26x2.5 on 25mm external width rims - never had a problem, even tho many experts warned of the tire rolling sideways.

I'm currently running 29x3.0 tires on NoTubes Flow rims (32mm outer, 29mm inner), also w/o issue.

And building up a wheelset using Origin8 Bolt rims (40/35) - but I wanted to shape the tires (Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0) I picked up for them, so I planned to mount them with tubes on some older narrow rims (25mm outer?), but after mounting one that way I decided to mount the other onto one of the Bolts to compare. I note that the narrow rim makes the tire both shorter and narrower with a more rounded profile - but both tires mounted easy and would probably run fine.
I looked up Maxxis Grifter 29x2.5 tires, and they're pavement tread? The narrow/rounded profile should work better on the street.

I see them at ModernBike for 32$, so I'd go for it and see what you think.

Good Luck.


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## alex_alex (Oct 30, 2020)

wadester said:


> Back "when" I would run up to a true 26x2.5 on 25mm external width rims - never had a problem, even tho many experts warned of the tire rolling sideways.
> 
> I'm currently running 29x3.0 tires on NoTubes Flow rims (32mm outer, 29mm inner), also w/o issue.
> 
> ...


I'm from google translator I'm from Spain I don't speak English.
"undercut" = when a tire comes off the rim, "bead" when a tire is put on the rim, for example folding s when they "click" 3 times

which would be better maxxis hookworn 29x2'5 63x622 € 20 rididas or maxxis griffter 29x2.5 64x622 25 folding 25€?


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

gsteitz said:


> i've got a brand new 29x3.0 XR2 and NOS Chupacabra I'm looking to get rid of. I'll sell as a pair if anyone is interested.


Might be interested


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Bullfrog123 said:


> You guys know of any tires that are actually over 3" but less than 3.8" and not made by Vee Tire Co..I have 27.5" and 29" rims I can use so either diameter is OK.


Bontrager Hodag's are called 27.5 x 3.8", but measure closer to 3.6" on most rims.

Most underrated tire out there for dirt use IMO.

I keep 'em in stock if your local shop doesn't.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Folks
I need your help.

Currently running 29 x3.0 Front and 29x2.8 rear (Both Maxxis).
Rims are LB 31.6 internal.
Problem is that they're quite high and almost hitting rear triangle and fork (there is still a lot of space on sides).

What rim width would you recommend ? 
I was thinking about ~42rims (10mm wider than currently) but don't know how it may impact height - would that decrease height , save wome space?



Wysłane z mojego SM-G988B przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Placek said:


> Folks
> I need your help.
> 
> Currently running 29 x3.0 Front and 29x2.8 rear (Both Maxxis).
> ...


We read lots on the web so i simply contact manufacturers. Their answer is they are designed for 35-45I so a 40-45 would make a difference.


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

33red said:


> We read lots on the web so i simply contact manufacturers. Their answer is they are designed for 35-45I so a 40-45 would make a difference.


I'm lening towards i40 so that would be ~8mm wider per rim.
SHaould i expect that tire will be wider but at the same time lower so will have more clearence between tire-crown and tire-rear triangle


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I'm wondering where you all are even finding 29+ tires. I know it's winter, but it's not cold here, and they're unobtaininum! I scored some used ones on eBay for now, but the availability is ridiculous.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Placek said:


> I'm leaning towards i40 so that would be ~8mm wider per rim.
> SHould i expect that tire will be wider but at the same time lower so will have more clearence between tire-crown and tire-rear triangle


My recent experience had Maxxis Chronicles being notably shorter and narrower on the narrow rim - this was 25mm inner vs 35mm inner. Going wider will get you both taller and wider


twodownzero said:


> I'm wondering where you all are even finding 29+ tires. I know it's winter, but it's not cold here, and they're unobtaininum! I scored some used ones on eBay for now, but the availability is ridiculous.


Stock of everything is drying up - I just recently picked up 4 Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0's, but they were apparently on closeout - and are no longer available on ebay.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

wadester said:


> Stock of everything is drying up - I just recently picked up 4 Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0's, but they were apparently on closeout - and are no longer available on ebay.


At this point I think I'd almost take what I can get. Is 29+ dying? Or is it just winter? Or supply chain? Anyone have any information at all?


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

wadester said:


> My recent experience had Maxxis Chronicles being notably shorter and narrower on the narrow rim - this was 25mm inner vs 35mm inner. Going wider will get you both taller and wider
> 
> Stock of everything is drying up - I just recently picked up 4 Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0's, but they were apparently on closeout - and are no longer available on ebay.


I thought changing the rim will only make it wider but at the same time lower ?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G988B przy użyciu Tapatalka


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

twodownzero said:


> At this point I think I'd almost take what I can get. Is 29+ dying? Or is it just winter? Or supply chain? Anyone have any information at all?


In many countries millions of people received tons of money so they spent and some manufacturing was stopped for weeks so shelves are empty. Have you heard the word covid? Snowmobiles, skis, bikes etc... are back order.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Placek said:


> I thought changing the rim will only make it wider but at the same time lower ?
> 
> Wysłane z mojego SM-G988B przy użyciu Tapatalka


If you think of the total distance around the rim and mounted tire (cross section), making either component wider will make the distance longer. And therefore a larger circle (both taller and wider).


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

wadester said:


> If you think of the total distance around the rim and mounted tire (cross section), making either component wider will make the distance longer. And therefore a larger circle (both taller and wider).


Tha case is i have plety space on sides but not enough on top.
Would changing just the rim result in decreasing the vertical size and widering on sides ?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I have read that it will and also that it will not. What is the max recommended by the frame manufacturer? On my Giant they recommand not to exceed 2.8 and my 3.0 are fine but like many manufacturers they are less than 3.0. The fork manufacturer answered my question in mm but it was like 2.9. So i went from _small 2.8_ to _small 3.0_. Since i found the 2.8 used at a great price riding for a month i got 20$ extra reselling them. 😁


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Kan I kindly ask anyone of you to measeure if You have one of below setups:

i40 rim and 3.0 tire (best DHF or one of Maxxis tires) 
i40rim and 2.8 tire (best Rekon or one of Maxxis tires)

If You can also let me know whet is Your vertical distance between tire knob and fork crown in "mm"


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Sharing my measurments :

Front:
40 ID RF Arch-Asym Rim
DHF 3.0 tire
1bar
75mm outer knob width
FOX 36 110mm fork

(space between crown and tire ~5mm)

Rear:
40 ID RF Arch-Asym Rim
Rekon+ 2.8 tire
69mm outer knob width
1bar


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

gsteitz said:


> i've got a brand new 29x3.0 XR2 and NOS Chupacabra I'm looking to get rid of. I'll sell as a pair if anyone is interested.


A little late to the party, are these tires still available?


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## ski5 (Oct 2, 2011)

Anyone have a lead on when any 29x3" tire stock might be available?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ski5 said:


> Anyone have a lead on when any 29x3" tire stock might be available?


I have read that generaly(not 29+ specific) some companies will have a new batch in november.
I simply found some used ones about 7 months ago to avoid the wait. Good luck !


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

ski5 said:


> Anyone have a lead on when any 29x3" tire stock might be available?


The only place I've been able to find any is on eBay. There are some Vittoria Cannoli's and Maxxis Minion DHF's on there right now, otherwise you will have to call local bike shops for availability. I'm not sure where you are located, but I do know there are some bike shops in Central NJ that have Bontrager XR2's in stock.


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## bacolmm (Jul 30, 2004)

ski5 said:


> Anyone have a lead on when any 29x3" tire stock might be available?











Ranger 2.8/3.0


Searching for the ultimate do-all tire to satisfy your plus-size needs? Meet the Ranger…you’re welcome. Limitless traction, increased confidence and multiple usages make the plus-size Ranger ready for any challenge.




www.wtb.com


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## ski5 (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks all, some sleuthing on google shows a handful still available at small bike shops and ebay.


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## ski5 (Oct 2, 2011)

33red said:


> I have read that generaly(not 29+ specific) some companies will have a new batch in november.
> I simply found some used ones about 7 months ago to avoid the wait. Good luck !


I just got some word from Terrene that corroborates that:

"We expect a big re-stock sometime in the Fall.
Those tires should be in that delivery."


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

bacolmm said:


> Ranger 2.8/3.0
> 
> 
> Searching for the ultimate do-all tire to satisfy your plus-size needs? Meet the Ranger…you’re welcome. Limitless traction, increased confidence and multiple usages make the plus-size Ranger ready for any challenge.
> ...


Already sold out LOL


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

I spoke to someone at Vittoria yesterday, and both of their 29 x 3 offerings have been discontinued (Bomboloni and Cannoli).


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Be sure to check the euro sites. I picked up a set of 3.0 rangers fron R2 a Few months ago. From the sounds of it I should have bought more.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

It seems for 3.0 Surly with a fast roller and an agressive option is worth a look.


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

I found a NOS Bontrager Chupacabra 29x3 on eBay the other day. I think the auction was 3 minutes old before I hit the Buy Now button, this will go on the rear of my VerHauen. I just ordered a Maxxis Minion DHR II 29x3 for the front.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I have XR2, XR4, SE4, DHF, DHR, and Cannoli's in stock in 3.0.

Rekon, Coronado, and maybe a few others in 2.8".


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

mikesee said:


> I have XR2, XR4, SE4, DHF, DHR, and Cannoli's in stock in 3.0.
> 
> Rekon, Coronado, and maybe a few others in 2.8".


Hi @mikesee

How do I contact you if I want to purchase one of your 2.8's? I'm interested in the Rekon, or other options you might have as well (I'm not interested in the Coronado).

Thanks in advance, John


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

SS Mukluk said:


> Hi @mikesee
> 
> How do I contact you if I want to purchase one of your 2.8's? I'm interested in the Rekon, or other options you might have as well (I'm not interested in the Coronado).
> 
> Thanks in advance, John


mike dot curiak at gmail


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

How long do tyres last? I have hoarded a supply of spare 3.0 (1xChupa, 1xRanger Light, 2xCannoli) but I’m concerned I might not get through them. Is there any storage strategy to extend life?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

marvin rouge said:


> How long do tyres last? I have hoarded a supply of spare 3.0 (1xChupa, 1xRanger Light, 2xCannoli) but I'm concerned I might not get through them. Is there any storage strategy to extend life?


Dark/dry. That doesn't (to me) sound like an absurd number to go through in a year/two, so I wouldn't bother...but your best case is vacuum seal them in a bag/put that in a dark bag/cool closet.

Modern tires can usually stay out for 5-10 years before they start to get to a state where you say to yourself, "man, those are looking kind of old".


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## SS Mukluk (Oct 1, 2015)

Did Maxxis ever make the Ikon+ 29x2.8 size?


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## SpokaneTim (Jan 2, 2004)

Good news. Spoke with Trek today about whether or not the XR4 and XR2 29 x 3.0s are discontinued. Fortunately neither are, but we will need to wait several months for shipments to arrive. According to the employee I spoke with, XR2s will be in stock November '21 and the XR4s will be in stock January '22. Both tires are manufactured in Taiwan.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

SS Mukluk said:


> Did Maxxis ever make the Ikon+ 29x2.8 size?


I saw one being ridden in Moab ~2 years ago, but have never seen them available for sale.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

With what's still available, what's the most rock-worthy, cut-proof tire? Dirt Wizard?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dr.welby said:


> With what's still available, what's the most rock-worthy, cut-proof tire? Dirt Wizard?


SE4 by a longshot.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I just sold my 27+, next week i will join the 29 so this is just from what i read but
the Vigilante might be worth a look. 








NSMB.com - Wet Weather & The 29x2.8" WTB Vigilante Plus Tire


Riding aggressive plus-sized rubber on the gnarliest all-weather trails the North Shore can offer...




nsmb.com


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

any recent Knard owners here, the 60tpi version? How strong are the sidewalls?


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

Picked up an XR4 a couple weeks ago. No bike shops in the Twin Cities had any left, but Red Wing Bicycles (an hour away) had foreseen the demand and stocked up, and still had a couple left. Expensive, but was just the ticket for my recent trip to the Black Hills. Really liked how it performed in rocky terrain.


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

buffet said:


> any recent Knard owners here, the 60tpi version? How strong are the sidewalls?


Uh, the sidewalls seem at least medium-tough. But I would not call the Knard rock-worthy unless your goal is to slide across the rocks.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

GlowBoy said:


> Uh, the sidewalls seem at least medium-tough. But I would not call the Knard rock-worthy unless your goal is to slide across the rocks.


Thanks. Is the weight really ~1170gr? I wonder where the heck does the 300gr weight penalty compared to XR2 come from


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## billj121 (Jul 29, 2011)

buffet said:


> Thanks. Is the weight really ~1170gr? I wonder where the heck does the 300gr weight penalty compared to XR2 come from


Trek site shows the XR4 @ 1100g
And the SE4 @1225g


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

billj121 said:


> Trek site shows the XR4 @ 1100g
> And the SE4 @1225g


Knard directly compares to the XR2, not the 4 series. My guess: casing material/extra rubber. The XR2 uses a 120TPI casing, for one (Knard is 60, which tends to be heavier gauge thread), and has (not confirmed, just 'feels' right) less knobs. NB the casing nomenclature _could _be the same between tires, with Trek measuring the bias in the middle where it overlaps, instead of the individual plies themselves. The XR2 sidewalls feel like paper compared to the Knards...but the nylon breaker does its job well.

The XR2/Chupacabra is lightning in a bottle...durable [enough], gobs of traction, wears like iron, impossibly light for the plusses. XR4 makes a great front tire for more aggressive riding; the weight penalty is minimal, and the speed lost in straightaways is gained back in spades when you turn/trail gets looser.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

*@wschruba*

Thanks for your detailed reply. How durable is XR2 in the rear? I'm slightly over 200lbs, and I've only been using XR2 in the front. I'm satisfied with how it rolls and corners, however the weight of this tire and the paper sidewalls that you've mentioned scare me away from using it as a rear tire. So I was thinking about getting the 60tpi Knard, but the 300gr weight penalty is killing me


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

buffet said:


> *@wschruba*
> 
> Thanks for your detailed reply. How durable is XR2 in the rear? I'm slightly over 200lbs, and I've only been using XR2 in the front. I'm satisfied with how it rolls and corners, however the weight of this tire and the paper sidewalls that you've mentioned scare me away from using it as a rear tire. So I was thinking about getting the 60tpi Knard, but the 300gr weight penalty is killing me


Have you tought about the Maxxis Rekon 2.8 with exo+ if it is available?


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

33red said:


> Have you tought about the Maxxis Rekon 2.8 with exo+ if it is available?


 Yes, it's an option, although I'd like a true 3.0 and less aggressive knob patternthan the Rekons.

As for the Knards, are they still being produced or discontinued? I can't find them anywhere.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

buffet said:


> *@wschruba*
> 
> Thanks for your detailed reply. How durable is XR2 in the rear? I'm slightly over 200lbs, and I've only been using XR2 in the front. I'm satisfied with how it rolls and corners, however the weight of this tire and the paper sidewalls that you've mentioned scare me away from using it as a rear tire. So I was thinking about getting the 60tpi Knard, but the 300gr weight penalty is killing me


YMMV. I weigh between 160-170 when I'm actively riding. Coworker weighs ~190ish and rode the same tires for a long time. Neither of us had any problems with support during cornering, but bear in mind that there are no extended/large amounts of exposed rock where we ride predominantly. I took mine north into the state where there is lots of exposed igneous rock(s) and don't have problems, but those rides are infrequent (and I pick my lines carefully). The Knard/XR2/Ranger, etc, break loose quite predictably in turns, and none are what I would consider a good candidate for 'railing' a flat turn (sand/loam around here). All of them are scary tires for the above when on the front of a bike, so if you aren't having problems on the front, I doubt you'll have problems on the rear.



buffet said:


> Yes, it's an option, although I'd like a true 3.0 and less aggressive knob patternthan the Rekons.
> 
> As for the Knards, are they still being produced or discontinued? I can't find them anywhere.


Knards are being produced, but in low volume [supply chain issues--what's new]. I think they're expected back in stock ~late August.


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## GlowBoy (Jan 3, 2004)

wschruba said:


> The XR2/Chupacabra is lightning in a bottle...durable [enough], gobs of traction, wears like iron, impossibly light for the plusses. XR4 makes a great front tire for more aggressive riding; the weight penalty is minimal, and the speed lost in straightaways is gained back in spades when you turn/trail gets looser.


Agreed completely. I wasn't necessarily a big Bontrager fan in the past, but they've really nailed it with these two tires.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I ordered 2 3.0X29 DHF, i found a nice discount, now i hope they will not include the bonus defect.
Here the Bontrager are very pricy.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

GlowBoy said:


> Agreed completely. I wasn't necessarily a big Bontrager fan in the past, but they've really nailed it with these two tires.


 Would you rank the XR2 above the Chronicle (should the latter one still be available) ?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

buffet said:


> Would you rank the XR2 above the Chronicle (should the latter one still be available) ?


Chronicles are very hard to find anymore.

XR2 is lighter, faster, and has a much more supple ride.

Chron is more durable -- both in tread wear as well as resistance to casing cuts.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Chupacabras were great for me in several respects, but not perfect. They did wear well for a tire that has good grip on the trails I ride. They were very light for how tough they are and how well they grip the trail. They have great traction for what they are (if they had to give them an XR# designation, XR2 is appropriate). My only criticisms are that they are expensive, and they roll about like a Nevegal. If they rolled like the WTB Ranger Fast/Tough, they'd actually be worth the price tag IMHO. . . . but they don't.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

jeffj said:


> Chupacabras were great for me in several respects, but not perfect. They did wear well for a tire that has good grip on the trails I ride. They were very light for how tough they are and how well they grip the trail. They have great traction for what they are (if they had to give them an XR# designation, XR2 is appropriate). My only criticisms are that they are expensive, and they roll about like a Nevegal. If they rolled like the WTB Ranger Fast/Tough, they'd actually be worth the price tag IMHO. . . . but they don't.


well i find they roll faster than any other 29+ tire i tried? opinions are like; ya know... i'd try a set. to me they outroll any non semi-slicks. similar to my beloved crossmark but in plus size.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

I've been running 29x3.0 Knards on my Bassboat Krampus, but both of the originals have now "slipped" a bead. These were original 27tpi cheapies, gave good service for a looooong time, but all gone now. I managed to pick up a 60tpi version for the rear back before the plague, but the front lasted just long enough to hit the current lack of product.

But I did manage to stock a pair of Chronicles for the new "Fall" (static sunset) Krampus I'm building up slowly, and also a Bontrager SE4 for the Bassboat now. 

So. I'm running 26mm ID rims on the Bassboat, and 35mm ID rims for the Fall - swapped tires around and took width measurements as follows - all at 15psi, new tires except for the Knard;

On 26mm ID across knobs, across body
Knard 29x3.0 60 tpi 74mm 69mm 
Chronicle 29x3.00 71mm 63mm 
Bontrager SE4 TI TLR 29x3.0 74mm 69mm 

On 35mm ID
Chronicle 29x3.00 73mm 69mm
Bontrager SE4 TI TLR 29x3.0 73mm 71mm

I'd love it if folks would start posting up this data - rim ID, width across knobs at least, for other folks reference.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

wadester said:


> I've been running 29x3.0 Knards on my Bassboat Krampus, but both of the originals have now "slipped" a bead. These were original 27tpi cheapies, gave good service for a looooong time, but all gone now. I managed to pick up a 60tpi version for the rear back before the plague, but the front lasted just long enough to hit the current lack of product.
> 
> But I did manage to stock a pair of Chronicles for the new "Fall" (static sunset) Krampus I'm building up slowly, and also a Bontrager SE4 for the Bassboat now.
> 
> ...


So you are OK using 3.0 on 26 rims? I ordered a Giant 2021, it comes on 2.6 but i bought 3.0.
The fork and frame have room but rims are 25, i hope it will work, the 2.8 are so limited.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

33red said:


> So you are OK using 3.0 on 26 rims? I ordered a Giant 2021, it comes on 2.6 but i bought 3.0.
> The fork and frame have room but rims are 25, i hope it will work, the 2.8 are so limited.


Yes, the 3.0's work fine on 26mm ID rims - the profile is rounder, which may help rolling on hardpack but will still float in soft stuff after it sinks in a little.

I started this wide tire/narrow rim thing back when 19mm ID rims were the widest available and I laid hands on some true 26x2.5 tires - worked fine. Run it on the Bassboat because I already had the rims (36h for a special rear hub) and the RabbitHoles were the only wider rims then ($$$$$ and no 36h).

I note that a bead on both original Knards finally "stretched" after many years, so may put a bit of extra stress there but not enough to worry about.
I also note that the rims are notubes (Arch or Flow) with Gorilla tape and the Knards were always run tubeless.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

What is the rim width recommendation for the XR2 29x3”? I can’t find it on Trek website. I am currently running it in the front on Nextie Crocodile i36 rim, where it seems fine. I want to put t in the rear as well where I currently have a Blunt 35 (which is actually i30), so I want to relace my rear wheel with Nextie Crocodile as well. The Crocodile comes in two flavours - the i36 and i43. So I’m having a hard time deciding which one to get for the rear wheel.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

buffet said:


> What is the rim width recommendation for the XR2 29x3"? I can't find it on Trek website. I am currently running it in the front on Nextie Crocodile i36 rim, where it seems fine. I want to put t in the rear as well where I currently have a Blunt 35 (which is actually i30), so I want to relace my rear wheel with Nextie Crocodile as well. The Crocodile comes in two flavours - the i36 and i43. So I'm having a hard time deciding which one to get for the rear wheel.


I would do the i43 given the two choices. My Stache came with i45 but I'm currently running i39. I personally wouldn't run anything less for a 3.0 tire.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

buffet said:


> What is the rim width recommendation for the XR2 29x3"? I can't find it on Trek website. I am currently running it in the front on Nextie Crocodile i36 rim, where it seems fine. I want to put t in the rear as well where I currently have a Blunt 35 (which is actually i30), so I want to relace my rear wheel with Nextie Crocodile as well. The Crocodile comes in two flavours - the i36 and i43. So I'm having a hard time deciding which one to get for the rear wheel.


My take&#8230; I've run XR2 and XR4 in 3.0 on i33 Nextie without issue. I actually prefer the profile over an i40 for the type of trails and riding I do.

If you know you'll only ever run 3.0's then throw a dart, you'd probably enjoy either. But&#8230;if you think you'd ever run 2.8/2.6/2.5&#8230; they get awfully square on a i43 rim.

I know some may be more sensitive to tire profile than I, but that's my thoughts.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

huckleberry hound said:


> I would do the i43 given the two choices. My Stache came with i45 but I'm currently running i39. I personally wouldn't run anything less for a 3.0 tire.


Interesting...

I have a Trek Full Stache 8 and it's got Carbon hoops with 35mm internal width rims.

The stock wheels were/are 36mm internal I believe.

I'm running a Minion DHRII 29x3.0 up front and a 29x3.0 SE4 out back.

No problems what so ever :YMMV:

PS - the XR4's are a little flimsy for this bikes abilities. If you're just cruising and bike trekin, the XR4's would be fine.

The DHRII up front is awesome!!

The SE4 out back gives security and durability.

Have ridden bike in Enduro race. Very rocky, techinical terrain. Bike exceeded expectations.

Sent from my Asus Rog 3


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

The Knards are back in stock in various US online stores!


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

I think I saw Kenda has their only 29x2.8 tire still in stock. Forget what the model was.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't know if I have posted before, but I start by saying I am not a Trek fan, but.....I have their XR4/XR2 Team Issue 29x3 and must say they are really impressive tires. Taking them out of the package I could tell right away the casing was different then anything I had handled before (maxxis, shwalbe, Surly, Goodyear, etc). So soft and supple, and just felt really different. *I don't know if this is true, but I heard Trek partnered with an F1 tire engineer for their tires?*

I am 250lbs, and need a front tire I can count on every time I use it, hence the XR4. I feel like it rolls really well, and has a good predicable feel to it. People in front of me on fast hardpacked trail said they def know I am behind them based on the sound. I would suggest these tires to anyone, and have even seen guys locally running XR4/XR4, which I feel is way overkill for a rear tire, but they seem to love.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

buffet said:


> any recent Knard owners here, the 60tpi version? How strong are the sidewalls?


Got the new/current Knards (60tpi). Tire weight is 1095gr (official weight is 1170gr) which is basically same as the Chronicles.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Couple of data points for everyone on the WTB Ranger 29x3.0 TCS Light on a Nextie Crocodile rim...

927g actual weight
Fresh install at 11psi: 2.974" at casing and 3.044 at outer knobs.

I'll let it sit overnight at 20psi and measure again in the morning but so far I'm really liking those numbers.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Couple of data points for everyone on the WTB Ranger 29x3.0 TCS Light on a Nextie Crocodile rim...


i36 Croc or i43?


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

buffet said:


> i36 Croc or i43?


Hmmm, I thought they were i45 (52mm w/3.5mm rim lip). They're several years old. They didn't have multiple widths back when I bought them and their cross section shape is different then the current Crocodile on Nextie's site.


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## Brad In A Van (Nov 26, 2017)

Don’t Fret: WTB Plans to Keep 29+ Tires in Its Catalog


So there's been a lot of chatter on this website about the availability of 29x3" tires and I can finally share what WTB's 29+ offering will be later this year and into 2022. The official word from WTB is that 29x3 is here to stay, with the following coming in soon: -Ranger 2.8 x 27.5" TCS...




theradavist.com





Looks like Rangers will be coming back in stock later on.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I just got a Giant, it came on Rekons 29x2.4 2c, i want to replace them.
I want allarounders a bit bigger with a bit more grip.
I have enough room for 2.6 or 2.8. Since parts are not all available i might get a Rekon
2.8 3c for the rear or ...
I just saw some Nobby Nic super trail evo in 2.6 available
Your suggestions are welcome.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

33red said:


> I just got a Giant, it came on Rekons 29x2.4 2c, i want to replace them.
> I want allarounders a bit bigger with a bit more grip.
> I have enough room for 2.6 or 2.8. Since parts are not all available i might get a Rekon
> 2.8 3c for the rear or ...
> ...



What width of rim?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

35 mm


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

29 x 2.8 Maxxis Rekons...I don't mind them. They measured out to 69mm at 13 PSI on 40 inner width rims after a couple of rides. I definitely miss the cushion of a 3.0 tire, but the grip is great on loose over hard pack and granite chunk. If they made this tire in 3.0, I would be pretty content to run it as a rear tire or possibly on both ends of the bike.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

33red said:


> 35 mm



I'd try the 2.8" Rekon on the rear and see how you like it.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok, I have received my Stache frame and now considering should I go with 3.0 tires or should I try some 2.8 tires. This will be trail-worthy adventure / bikepacking rig I will be pedaling a lot. I'm looking to achieve a balance between rolling efficiency, grip and maybe comfort of a bigger volume tires.

I usually prefer more meat on my tires. I don't like XR2 at all. I was generally satisfied with XR4/SE4 and I think it's one of the best all-around 3.0 tires available. I may ditch some grip for a faster rolling - like Rekon front / Coronado rear? Though Coronado in durable casing is rather heavy, considering it's not that much aggressive.

I always wanted to try Chronicle but this tire is now impossible to get.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Mebaru said:


> Ok, I have received my Stache frame and now considering should I go with 3.0 tires or should I try some 2.8 tires. This will be trail-worthy adventure / bikepacking rig I will be pedaling a lot. I'm looking to achieve a balance between rolling efficiency, grip and maybe comfort of a bigger volume tires.
> 
> I usually prefer more meat on my tires. I don't like XR2 at all. I was generally satisfied with XR4/SE4 and I think it's one of the best all-around 3.0 tires available. I may ditch some grip for a faster rolling - like Rekon front / Coronado rear? Though Coronado in durable casing is rather heavy, considering it's not that much aggressive.
> 
> I always wanted to try Chronicle but this tire is now impossible to get.


I only recommand the rekon for rear from my experience. So that will be a 2.8 if available.
Have you checked Terene?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Mebaru said:


> Ok, I have received my Stache frame and now considering should I go with 3.0 tires or should I try some 2.8 tires. This will be trail-worthy adventure / bikepacking rig I will be pedaling a lot. I'm looking to achieve a balance between rolling efficiency, grip and maybe comfort of a bigger volume tires.
> 
> I usually prefer more meat on my tires. I don't like XR2 at all. I was generally satisfied with XR4/SE4 and I think it's one of the best all-around 3.0 tires available. I may ditch some grip for a faster rolling - like Rekon front / Coronado rear? Though Coronado in durable casing is rather heavy, considering it's not that much aggressive.
> 
> I always wanted to try Chronicle but this tire is now impossible to get.


I mean, what kind of terrain are you running in? I've been hard pressed to be unhappy with the XR2 in the back, unless it's just pure slop out. My full suspension runs an XR4 out front, and an XR2 in the back...unless I'm expecting to be in crappier conditions, where I'll swap the rear tire for an XR4, Cake Eater, Rekon, etc [something with less, larger knobs]. My single-speed Stache runs XR2 or Rangers, whichever I can get cheaper at the moment. The front definitely washes out with little warning when riding more aggressively in loose conditions, but I've noted that the rear is quite predictable in when/where it lets go.

What about the XR2 was not desirable to you in the rear? Breaking loose? Durability?


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

wschruba said:


> I mean, what kind of terrain are you running in?
> What about the XR2 was not desirable to you in the rear? Breaking loose? Durability?


My backcountry is mixed bag of terrains and I often ride aggressively, so I desire more confidence on the trail from my tires. I tried once XR2 and I didn't like it all. Way too sketchy for my taste and a disaster in wet and loose conditions.

I think I'm gonna try XR4 front / Rekon 2.8 rear and see how it will work for me.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Mebaru said:


> My backcountry is mixed bag of terrains and I often ride aggressively, so I desire more confidence on the trail from my tires. I tried once XR2 and I didn't like it all. Way too sketchy for my taste and a disaster in wet and loose conditions.
> 
> I think I'm gonna try XR4 front / Rekon 2.8 rear and see how it will work for me.


I can say for rear the 3c Rekon 2.8 is a tire i loved for months. Rolls well and climbs wet roots . . . you just need to use proper PSI. It took me a week of testing to get on my sweet spot.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

33red said:


> I can say for rear the 3c Rekon 2.8 is a tire i loved for months. Rolls well and climbs wet roots . . . you just need to use proper PSI. It took me a week of testing to get on my sweet spot.


Sounds good, I would love to test it. Hopefully it's not too fragile for a rear tire. I wonder if I should get a DC version instead of 3C. DC is more durable and rolls better but it doesn't work well in low PSIs, you should pump it at least to 25PSI.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Bontrager XR4 freshly mounted on a 45mm internal width rim at 18 psi. 3.070" knob to knob, 3.082" at the casing. Tire weighed 1175g. I think in one of my posts above about some other tires I said the rim is a Nextie Crocodile but that was a brain fart and its their Jungle Fox II.










Thanks to mikesee for keeping the 29+ dream alive with a steady supply of tires.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

what tire is better for overall trail riding?

xr4 29 x 3.0" or vigilante 29 x 2.8"

does weight matter?

what are the tire diameters?

want a great everyday tire to compliment a purgatory 27.5 x 3.0" which will continue to be my rear tire.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Bontrager XR4 freshly mounted on a 45mm internal width rim at 18 psi. 3.070" knob to knob, 3.082" at the casing. Tire weighed 1175g. I think in one of my posts above about some other tires I said the rim is a Nextie Crocodile but that was a brain fart and its their Jungle Fox II.
> 
> View attachment 1964672
> 
> ...


this looks fairly rounded off. hows it been working? whats on the rear? rim id?


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Fuse6F said:


> this looks fairly rounded off. hows it been working? whats on the rear? rim id?


I haven't been out on it yet, been spending time on B-fat wheels lately. XR2 on the same Jungle Fox II rim for the rear. I have ridden the XR2 extensively F&R and it is fantastic for summer conditions. I picked up the XR4 for potential use in the winter when we just have a crust of snow and bite is more important than float.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Fuse6F said:


> is the vigilante too radical? too much grip? too diff a profile?


Vigilante is a heavy duty downhill tire with square profile. Tons of grip but heavy and very slow rolling. A poor choice for all-day pedaling adventures in my opinion.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

Knards mounted on a Nextie Croc i43. Measured at 76mm sidewalls, 79mm knobs at 15psi.


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## Brad In A Van (Nov 26, 2017)

This popped up this morning.









29+ Tires: List, Options, and Guide


This Gear Index includes a comprehensive list of current 29+ tires with weights, options, specifications, and our take on each of the tires we’ve tested...




bikepacking.com


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## Pebisnutt (Sep 6, 2019)

I was wondering if anyone has riddenthe 29x3 dhr? Particularly as a front, how well does it pedal and what is the nature of its grip? Strengths and weaknesses, etc
Currently running a 29x3 xr4 up front and I think its pretty great but I like to try new things for the sake of it and it feels like I need to buy while I can. Xr4 seems to have a pretty nice combo of speed and grip, plus it feels pretty predictable and consistent, but Id like to see if I could get a little more of a precise feel while keeping with the monster truckiness I got going on 

New england chunky twisty trails, singlespeed hardtail.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Pebisnutt said:


> I was wondering if anyone has riddenthe 29x3 dhr? Particularly as a front, how well does it pedal and what is the nature of its grip? Strengths and weaknesses, etc
> Currently running a 29x3 xr4 up front and I think its pretty great but I like to try new things for the sake of it and it feels like I need to buy while I can. Xr4 seems to have a pretty nice combo of speed and grip, plus it feels pretty predictable and consistent, but Id like to see if I could get a little more of a precise feel while keeping with the monster truckiness I got going on
> 
> New england chunky twisty trails, singlespeed hardtail.


I don't have any first hand experience with it but I do remember Nick from Ride Alongside did a review a few years back. I have been happy with the XR4 myself.
Here is the video that I was talking about.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Pebisnutt said:


> I was wondering if anyone has riddenthe 29x3 dhr? Particularly as a front, how well does it pedal and what is the nature of its grip? Strengths and weaknesses, etc
> Currently running a 29x3 xr4 up front and I think its pretty great but I like to try new things for the sake of it and it feels like I need to buy while I can. Xr4 seems to have a pretty nice combo of speed and grip, plus it feels pretty predictable and consistent, but Id like to see if I could get a little more of a precise feel while keeping with the monster truckiness I got going on
> 
> New england chunky twisty trails, singlespeed hardtail.


I am just a bit north in Quebec. Here i have not read about that option. I just bought a 2021 FS 29 last november and i bought a pair
of 29x3.0 DHF. Some like that combo around here and i will find out this may. The DHF being faster the only plus you might get is in 
turns and it seems to be personal. I read so much good about the Xr4 i will try it if i do not like my front DHF.


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## Pebisnutt (Sep 6, 2019)

huckleberry hound said:


> I don't have any first hand experience with it but I do remember Nick from Ride Alongside did a review a few years back. I have been happy with the XR4 myself.
> Here is the video that I was talking about.


Nice yeah my one fear is it making my bike a total slog to actually pedal around, as I hear people say that about minions and vigilantes sometimes but it doesnt sound like this guy had that problem


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Pebisnutt said:


> Nice yeah my one fear is it making my bike a total slog to actually pedal around, as I hear people say that about minions and vigilantes sometimes but it doesnt sound like this guy had that problem


Depends how fit you're  Minions are definitely slower rolling compared to XR4, probably a slog - when compared to so faster XCish fast-rolling options. Also, for some reason, 29x3.0 Minions aren't as good as smaller versions of these tires. But many people like them, they are basically the most aggressive 29x3.0 tire (still) available. I believe they are better suited for riding down than for all-day epic pedaling adventures.


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## buffet (Oct 7, 2018)

Pebisnutt said:


> ...Currently running a 29x3 xr4 ...
> ... singlespeed hardtail.


I think, you've just become my hero. I'm pondering "maybe these 29x3 XR2s are too slow for my SS, maybe try find some slicks?", but you are fine on the XR4s...


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## Pebisnutt (Sep 6, 2019)

Mebaru said:


> Depends how fit you're  Minions are definitely slower rolling compared to XR4, probably a slog - when compared to so faster XCish fast-rolling options. Also, for some reason, 29x3.0 Minions aren't as good as smaller versions of these tires. But many people like them, they are basically the most aggressive 29x3.0 tire (still) available. I believe they are better suited for riding down than for all-day epic pedaling adventures.


Ooh thats a good perspective Im certainly not an enduro/downhill kind of guy I like pedal heavy roller coaster style trails or adventure riding. I certainly run out of skill long before my tires run out of grip 



buffet said:


> I think, you've just become my hero. I'm pondering "maybe these 29x3 XR2s are too slow for my SS, maybe try find some slicks?", but you are fine on the XR4s...


Haha you flatter me but I should say that I am far from a competitive rider Im just some dude trying to have fun on the weekends. I had actually changed from a tire that would be considered "faster rolling" and while it probably is faster if you just like rolled down a simple hill or did equal pedaling across a flat smooth area, the xr4 more than made up the difference in every other aspect of riding and I was noticeably faster and more confident than before 

I guess what Im really chasing is that feeling again of swapping out tires and instantly being a better all around rider, my hope was that an even knobbier tire could help me clear more climbs or fix subtle issues with my cornering. Otherwise my improvement as a rider is going to come down to fitness and dedication and thats just not as fun or easy as buying a new part


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## awilli (Jan 1, 2017)

I am seeing a lot of "closeout" sales on the Bontrager XR2 29x3 on the internet this morning. Has this officially been discontinued? Hope not, this is my favorite plus tire.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

awilli said:


> I am seeing a lot of "closeout" sales on the Bontrager XR2 29x3 on the internet this morning. Has this officially been discontinued? Hope not, this is my favorite plus tire.


I have read a lot of good about that tire. Is it a good climber in all conditions? I just started on 29x3.0 Some months back i bought 2 29x3 DHF on sale. We are just out of winter so we are waiting for the trails to dry.


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## awilli (Jan 1, 2017)

I use this tire in spring, summer, and fall. Light for a 29x3 tire and fast rolling.I find that is a great tire for my area, Geogia, in dryer seasons. During the winter, I usually switch to XR4.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

33red said:


> I have read a lot of good about that tire. Is it a good climber in all conditions? I just started on 29x3.0 Some months back i bought 2 29x3 DHF on sale. We are just out of winter so we are waiting for the trails to dry.


XR2 has traction issues in loose stuff, but it breaks loose so predictably (even in the front) that you can work around it.

I run XR4 front/XR2 rear on the trail bike. XR2/XR2 on the "go fast" singlespeed, but I can swap front wheels if I feel like I need more.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

awilli said:


> I am seeing a lot of "closeout" sales on the Bontrager XR2 29x3 on the internet this morning. Has this officially been discontinued? Hope not, this is my favorite plus tire.



They had a batch come with bad/mislabeled packaging -- that's what these closeout tires are.

Same great tires, and they have not been discontinued.


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## awilli (Jan 1, 2017)

mikesee said:


> Same great tires, and they have not been discontinued.


Great News!


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## scottg07 (Jun 21, 2006)

mikesee said:


> They had a batch come with bad/mislabeled packaging -- that's what these closeout tires are.
> 
> Same great tires, and they have not been discontinued.


You know of a good source for them? Looks like they are mostly out of stock


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

scottg07 said:


> You know of a good source for them? Looks like they are mostly out of stock



I have 100+ on the shelf right now.


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## scottg07 (Jun 21, 2006)

mikesee said:


> I have 100+ on the shelf right now.


Didn't see an option to order tires on your site?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

scottg07 said:


> Didn't see an option to order tires on your site?



Send me an email: mike dot curiak at gmail


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Bonti will have more xr4 in stock come july. Keep checking their website in near future.


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